Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Deleted member]

100 player smash run lets ****ing go

How the hell would Ganondorf, Byleth, Robin, or Incineroar win?

 

[Momotsuki]

How the hell would Ganondorf, Byleth, Robin, or Incineroar win?

Camp until the other 99 players end up disconnected.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Duck Hunt after Sephiroth wins be like:
View attachment 295481

Duck Hunt especially should avoid encountering Sephiroth due to their resemblance to certain other members of their species.

this is probably as close as we'll ever get to KH in smash #ssbu pic.twitter.com/bEx4wroHqn

— mimi ✦ PINNED SOCIALS 🥮✨ (@miralyk) December 11, 2020

 

[Polan]

How the hell would Ganondorf, Byleth, Robin, or Incineroar win?

look i just want to throw down with 99 other people in smash run okay. if sacrifices must be made, then they must be made.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Duck Hunt especially should avoid encountering Sephiroth due to their resemblance to other members of their species.

this is probably as close as we'll ever get to KH in smash #ssbu pic.twitter.com/bEx4wroHqn

— mimi ✦ PINNED SOCIALS 🥮✨ (@miralyk) December 11, 2020

If only the Disney dog Sora is usually accompanied by was Pluto, so I could make jokes about people claiming Duck Hunt was a Photoshopped Pluto to debunk the ESRB leak.

 

[Deleted member]

On Nintendo's servers?

That would be the most unplayable game ever.

Me waiting my entire liftetime for one frame:

 

[shinhed-echi]

He's used to it what with Cloud taking the concept of stupidly huge sword and not giving it garbage frame data.

You think Sakurai Will give a surprise buff to Cloud? Give him his old nair back at least?

So here's a question prompted by all the villain talk.

Smash now has Bowser, Jr., The Koopalings, King K. Rool, Ganondorf, Ridley, Dark Samus and Wolf in Smash.

(Smash also has Meta Knight, King Dedede and Mewtwo but I am not counting them as villains.)

Who is the biggest Nintendo owned villain that isn't playable in Smash?

Medusa!
Hades
Mr.Sandman / King Hippo
Zoda (the prime invader, not the lunatic racer)
((Let me dream))
Black Shadow


Depends on the definition of big.
I don't know about Black Shadow, maybe he's just a very mean racer, hut the rest are into some terrible stuff that involves genocide.

 

[7NATOR]

Okay So I was thinking about it

But do you think there might be a Reason that the Boss Spirits can't be refought like the Regular Spirits, like in it's own Mode or Something? Is It possible that there may be a New Addition that would have this Feature? Could it be attached to one of the Fighter Packs?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

You think Sakurai Will give a surprise buff to Cloud? Give him his old nair back at least?

Maybe, but I wouldn't expect anything drastic. They seem to want to only give buffs that don't really do anything.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Okay So I was thinking about it

But do you think there might be a Reason that the Boss Spirits can't be refought like the Regular Spirits, like in it's own Mode or Something? Is It possible that there may be a New Addition that would have this Feature? Could it be attached to one of the Fighter Packs?

I'm surprised they never added a Boss Rush mode, to be honest.

 

[Momotsuki]

I'm gonna do a quick test to see if the game engine actually supports multi-bosses like that (Master Hand and Crazy Hand, Galeem and Dharkon, they're pre-set single bosses, not just loading both of their single counterparts at once). Would anyone like to see the fruits of such an endeavour?

I don't know if anyone wanted to know but in case anyone felt left hanging, I did test this. It doesn't work unfortunately. I tried to have you fight two Marxes at once, and to even get the game to recognize the second Marx entry for the round, I had to change a parameter, and doing that also turned both Marxes into failsafe Marios, rendering it all a waste of time anyway.

 

[7NATOR]

I'm surprised they never added a Boss Rush mode, to be honest.

It also never seemed to be Planned, since Home Run was the Last Planned mode

I guess they thought you could do the Galeem/Dharkon fight (which include Boss Refights) as many times as you want, But it's just quality of life to have a Boss Rush Mode with it's own Ranking system and such, Plus you don't have to go through the Platforming Section

Longshot, but there could be New Bosses added along with a Boss Rush Mode. They do have 2 Years for FP2, and With Sephiroth releasing as Early as he is, It seems they'll be done releasing Fighters like 3 Months before December. There could be some extra Content added in. It's a Longshot since Bosses require Whole New Models and Attacks and Animation.

If we do Get new Bosses, I want Giygas and Eggman as Bosses, along with Tabuu returning

I don't know if anyone wanted to know but in case anyone felt left hanging, I did test this. It doesn't work unfortunately. I tried to have you fight two Marxes at once, and to even get the game to recognize the second Marx entry for the round, I had to change a parameter, and doing that also turned both Marxes into failsafe Marios, rendering it all a waste of time anyway.

One thing I want to ask is does Assist Rathalos work different from Boss Rathalos in terms of Loading. I remember when that Isabelle Fishing road Glitch spawned infinite Assists, Summoning Infinite Rathalos did not break or Crash the game. Is there are difference?

 

[Deleted member]

I have a pretty bold prediction.

I'm sure that if Geno ends up being a Mii costume on the 17th, a lot of people are going to post "#FreeGeno" all over the place.

 

[Momotsuki]

One thing I want to ask is does Assist Rathalos work different from Boss Rathalos in terms of Loading. I remember when that Isabelle Fishing road Glitch spawned infinite Assists, Summoning Infinite Rathalos did not break or Crash the game. Is there are difference?

I've actually never looked into that, but while it's probably sharing most graphical data, I'd imagine Assist Trophy Rathalos is treated like an Assist Trophy. Just a hunch. Most bosses internally are actually items bootstrapped to a dummy fighter, except for Giga Bowser, who is a little weird in Ultimate, internally speaking.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm surprised they never added a Boss Rush mode, to be honest.

Time restraints, probably.

 

[Momotsuki]

Time restraints, probably.

I turned Classic Mode into a boss rush mode and released the mod for people use and it took me two days.

 

[7NATOR]

I've actually never looked into that, but while it's probably sharing most graphical data, I'd imagine Assist Trophy Rathalos is treated like an Assist Trophy. Just a hunch. Most bosses internally are actually items bootstrapped to a dummy fighter, except for Giga Bowser, who is a little weird in Ultimate, internally speaking.

Oh yeah, I heard that Giga Bowser seems to be coded more like a Fighter, which is why he's able to be used through Hacks (even online) unlike the Other Bosses

If the bosses are treated like Items attached to a Dummy Fighter, first how does that work, but also I guess if they are coded like Items, they are like Smash balls that they are only coded to Appear Once, which could explain why you can't have 2 Marx's and such

Also is Playable Master Hand from the one Level in World of Light coded different from Boss Master Hand?

 

[SharkLord]

How popular is Touhou in Japan, if I may ask? I am very curious.

Does Touhou line up with Monster Hunter, Dragon Quest, Final Fantasy, Splatoon, and Pokemon in Japan?

And isn't there this character that is basically Dio Brando?

I am quite interested in Reimu for some reason.

I don't know exactly how big Touhou is in comparison, but it's pretty darn big. As in, big enough to dominate conventions so much that it has to get a convention all to itself big. Interestingly, the bulk of it's popularity comes from the fanworks; Though, seeing as bullet hells aren't the most inclusive of genres, that's understandable.

Oh yeah, there is a literal DIO character.

Sakuya Izayoi. She freezes time and spams knives everywhere. Though, seeing as she serves a vampire, she's probably a bit closer to Vanilla Ice character-wise. Aside from that, the infamous Night of Nights is a remix of one of her themes, Flowering Nights. She also stars in the fangame Touhou Luna Nights, which is coming to the Switch this week.

Also, her EoSD artwork.

Spoiler

 

[Deleted member]

I turned Classic Mode into a boss rush mode and released the mod for people use and it took me two days.

Wow, that is really cool.

 

[Momotsuki]

Also is Playable Master Hand from the one Level in World of Light coded different from Boss Master Hand?

Oh dear, I was worried you'd ask that. Playable Master Hand is really damn strange, as he's still more similar to an item than a fighter. The stuff with the boss actually being controllable for the minigame, that gets into the real nitty-gritty that's kind of over my head, so I don't want to try and explain something I don't fully get.

 

[RileyXY1]

But still, I think that the 5chan leak is fake, for a variety of reasons, mostly because I believe that KOS-MOS is extremely unlikely and I have absolutely no idea why they would pick her, especially considering that Rex exists.

 

[Deleted member]

So Sans and Cuphead were the only two PreMiiums we have received.

Do you think we will get more PreMiiums?

 

[ZephyrZ]

How the hell would Ganondorf, Byleth, Robin, or Incineroar win?

Target powerful enemies and mini bosses. They can do a lot of damage fast, so theh could kill enemies really quickly and get a ton of power ups from it.

If course there are faster heavy hitters like Bowser who will probably outclass them at that but hey, they'd still have their niches.

 

[Momotsuki]

But still, I think that the 5chan leak is fake, for a variety of reasons, mostly because I believe that KOS-MOS is extremely unlikely and I have absolutely no idea why they would pick her, especially considering that Rex exists.

I don't like throwing around "deconfirmed" because I think that's demoralizing, but I will say that a DLC Mii outfit becoming a DLC fighter in the same installment has no precedent. I'm not saying it can't happen but it's untreaded ground.

 

[Deleted member]

I don't like throwing around "deconfirmed" because I think that's demoralizing, but I will say that a DLC Mii outfit becoming a DLC fighter in the same installment has no precedent. I'm not saying it can't happen but it's untreaded ground.

I mean to be fair, FP2 has been filled with characters that broke fan rules. Considering we got Sephiroth out of all characters, Rex isn't impossible.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Giga Bowser in all his appearances is a Smash OC based loosely on Giant Bowser that's a literal clone of Bowser's gameplay, but with added stuff. Including immunity to throws. He has various elemental attacks in general. So in a way, you could call him a demonic Bowser taking a page from Mewtwo's strange abilities to suddenly use various elements. ...He's also one of the few characters that can use an ice move too(without customs taken into account, mind you).

What's neat is that in 4, he still plays much like his Brawl self, which means his abilities are different from Bowser's new wrestling-style gameplay. Frankly they could easily add him as an Echo at this point since he always had the same proportions as Bowser(unlike Young Link or even Pichu). It wouldn't even affect the Final Smash(though I'd give a new one, like using the Airship) of Bowser's. ...I'm just not sure what a good Final Smash for Giga Bowser would really be. He's already pretty much an OC clone of Bowser, not unlike the tons of Sonic OC's people have created. He's just actually in an official game. He has no ties to the Mario series proper(and his icon is supposed to be the Smash one, except when he's Bowser's Final Smash, which would be awkward for him to have a new series icon for 10ish seconds).

What they could also do is reduce his size in general so he's still fairly big, but not as large. This would make it easier to justify him being grabbable. A missed opportunity, really. On another note, As for Master Hand, I've used him in Melee and 64. He has a much more diverse moveset than WoL, where they gave him a very small amount of moves. In Smash 64, his moves are coded with commands like the rest of the characters(he also has his own Side B).

 

[Ivander]

So Sans and Cuphead were the only two PreMiiums we have received.

Do you think we will get more PreMiiums?

More details, Shiny. By PreMiiums, you mean those with masks that envelope the whole head and look exactly the character's head? Or do you mean the ones with added music attached to them? Cause if you only mean the former, we do have Vault Boy and Bomberman. And it looks really nice when I'm using the Bomberman costume on the World of Light map. Closest thing to seeing playable Bomberman in Smash.

 

[Momotsuki]

I mean to be fair, FP2 has been filled with characters that broke fan rules. Considering we got Sephiroth out of all characters, Rex isn't impossible.

There are no rules beyond the basic video game debut clause. That has been the case for a very long time. It's why I don't think Rex has been "deconfirmed" or is "impossible", merely that precedent presents a hurdle. Every character has hurdles they have to clear to become a fighter, it's not a death sentence.

 

[Deleted member]

I mean to be fair, FP2 has been filled with characters that broke fan rules. Considering we got Sephiroth out of all characters, Rex isn't impossible.

To add to this, Rex's Mii Costume is a bit strange. It is not a part of any DLC character, just attached to the pass, because Sakurai didn't have time to add in Rex.

What is interesting is that Piranha Plant, Hero, and Steve were also considered for base-game, but got moved to DLC.

So I'm not saying Rex is guaranteed, far from it. We are completely in the dark on all of this. But Rex has a shot.

 

[Momotsuki]

Gee, it's almost 3 AM now. I think I'm gonna go to bed; I've completely speculated myself out for the next three months in three days. I'm taking it easy for now. Once I'm awake and around, that is.

 

[7NATOR]

The Reason for KOS-MOS over Rex is probably the Same reason for Min-Min over every other character, because the Creator wanted that character in

Plus KOS-MOS has gotten around in More Games than Rex, so She's been more exposed to larger audiences than Rex has. There's also the Different Moveset Potential and Potential Implementation that differ between the Characters. There's more but that's the General gist

 

[Kokiden]

You think Sakurai Will give a surprise buff to Cloud? Give him his old nair back at least?

I hope so.

His nair is ass, and most of his moves have no weight behind them.

Just fought someone online and even though I did a smash attack at 170%, they still lived.

They really neutered him in this game goddamn lol.

Maybe, but I wouldn't expect anything drastic. They seem to want to only give buffs that don't really do anything.

Yeah the balancing is... weird to say the least.

 

[Deleted member]

I am going to post a slightly controversial opinion. I don't get why a lot of people are mad at Piranha Plant. Most arguments I see against them are, "MY CHARACTER IS BETTER!"

Like, sure. It is just a generic enemy. But let Sakurai flex his creativity once in a while. We got two Fighters Passes, with three characters left.

More details, Shiny. By PreMiiums, you mean those with masks that envelope the whole head and look exactly the character's head? Or do you mean the ones with added music attached to them? Cause if you only mean the former, we do have Vault Boy and Bomberman. And it looks really nice when I'm using the Bomberman costume on the World of Light map. Closest thing to seeing playable Bomberman in Smash.

Mii costumes that are attached with music. Sans came with MEGALOVANIA, and Cuphead came with Floral Fury.

Gee, it's almost 3 AM now. I think I'm gonna go to bed; I've completely speculated myself out for the next three months in three days. I'm taking it easy for now. Once I'm awake and around, that is.

1:30 AM for me. My sleep schedule is messed up. Good night!

Speculation is fun, but I think it is consuming me a bit too much now. I plan to stop speculation permanently once CP11 is revealed.

 

[osby]

The Reason for KOS-MOS over Rex is probably the Same reason for Min-Min over every other character, because the Creator wanted that character in

You're omitting the fact that the only reason Min Min was a possibility in the first place is Nintendo wanting an ARMS character. It's not like random developers can go and force Sakurai to add their faves.

Plus KOS-MOS has gotten around in More Games than Rex, so She's been more exposed to larger audiences than Rex has. There's also the Different Moveset Potential and Potential Implementation that differ between the Characters. There's more but that's the General gist

I mean, yeah, but Rex is more exposed to an audience that has and played games on Nintendo Switch so it's a matter of "quantity vs quality" of said audiences. Speaking of ARMS, for example, we did get it over another, bigger fighting game with no games on Switch.

 

[dream1ng]

I think people are joking themselves if they think the real reason Min Min was chosen wasn't due to popularity.

Just a coincidence that the second most popular character was runner up, I guess.

 

[Simplythe1]

The Reason for KOS-MOS over Rex is probably the Same reason for Min-Min over every other character, because the Creator wanted that character in

Plus KOS-MOS has gotten around in More Games than Rex, so She's been more exposed to larger audiences than Rex has. There's also the Different Moveset Potential and Potential Implementation that differ between the Characters. There's more but that's the General gist

Bruh, where do you keep coming up with these weird theories

 

[7NATOR]

You're omitting the fact that the only reason Min Min was a possibility in the first place is Nintendo wanting an ARMS character. It's not like random developers can go and force Sakurai to add their faves.



I mean, yeah, but Rex is more exposed to an audience that has and played games on Nintendo Switch so it's a matter of "quantity vs quality" of said audiences. Speaking of ARMS, for example, we did get it over another, bigger fighting game with no games on Switch.

I Know. I'm just saying is that if a Xeno Character was in Nintendo's Consideration, that Dev Favoritism would perhaps be a Big part of why KOS-MOS would be a Character

Spoiler: Xenoblade 2 Spoilers

Also KOS-MOS is in Xenoblade 2. I guess the bad part though is she is a Very Secret Blade in the game that is notoriously hard to be unlocked. I guess in the Xenoblade 2 community she is seen as like a Rite of Passage though. anyway the thing is that while she's not Front and Center like Rex, she is in the game.

 

[ahemtoday]

You know what, it's my turn to come up with a weird theory! Steve's trailer originally was going to be entirely CGI, but when the pandemic hit it ended up putting too much pressure on their animation department between Min Min, Steve, and Sephiroth's trailers to get everything done. They decided to axe the CGI for the first part of Steve's trailer, as it was just characters that were already in the game fighting, which wasn't necessarily important for the reveal. That's why Steve is the only reveal that starts on gameplay.

 

[Deleted member]

Let's play a game, shall we? So I am going to take all of the DLC characters, and try to list what fan hurtles they have broken. Correct me if I am wrong in any areas, please.

: "No generic enemies."
: (???)
: (???)
: "No irrelevant characters."
: (???)
: (???)
: "Spirits cannot be fighters."
: "Minecraft won't fit in Smash."
: "Third party series already represented cannot get another representative."

Sadly, I was able to find only five characters that shattered hurtles. Let me know if Joker, Hero, Terry, or Byleth have shattered fan hurtles.

 

[7NATOR]

View attachment 295489
Bruh, where do you keep coming up with these weird theories

My Brain. Also it is Smash speculation

I Like to stretch my Mind to the full limit when it comes to Smash Speculation. some of these theories have helped me Look at Potential characters that I might not have Payed attention to

For example, I'm considering Monokuma and a Five Nights at Freddy's Character as Potential Options. Theory Crafting was what got me to look, but looking at their actual merits toward the roster is what's really making me consider them

You know what, it's my turn to come up with a weird theory! Steve's trailer originally was going to be entirely CGI, but when the pandemic hit it ended up putting too much pressure on their animation department between Min Min, Steve, and Sephiroth's trailers to get everything done. They decided to axe the CGI for the first part of Steve's trailer, as it was just characters that were already in the game fighting, which wasn't necessarily important for the reveal. That's why Steve is the only reveal that starts on gameplay.

I Believe it was said Steve was developed fully throughout the Pandemic. It's possible that the Trailer might have went through Revisions because of it, perhaps to focus more on Sephiroth's Trailer.

I also think it's likely that it was always planned to Go throughout gameplay first. Yes