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Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

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RileyXY1

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Though regardless, Steve's actual creation is before 2010. He isn't actually named outright till after 2010. Which is why the literal character as he's defined as Steve counts under 2010 a bit more properly. Not just the 1.0 release alone. I agree with Sakurai's listing, since that's the first "proper" game release. Betas shouldn't really count as a game release. It hasn't gone gold, which is the official release of a game. Regardless of Steve being before 2010, anyway, in his debut.

I don't see anything worth being concerned over. Old and new are all important aspects of gaming as is. I'm not even sure what the real concern is here. Could you be a lot more clear on what the problem is? That you simply don't like it being mostly "new" characters?
It's just focusing on some demographics (kids and new gamers) while ignoring others (veteran gamers).
 
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Commander_Alph

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I feel like Arle's been kinda slept on as a significant front runner for a while now. Everyone kinda wrote her off for Kiryu and I never really understood that, especially since Nintendo calls the shots on the characters and if they had to choose between the two I'd be hard pressed they pick Kiryu. In terms of popularity Yakuza certainly has the upper hand worldwide, but Puyo is rather big in Japan and was very significant in shaping the puzzle genre with the game's niche, spawning similar copycats that we've seen with other huge franchises like Doom and more recently, FNAF. I feel like she'd be a terry/hero type of fighter's pass with the whole semi-niche game largely popular in a singular region, and Microsoft got multiple reps so Joker "stealing" the Sega slot doesn't apply (and I've always felt he got in moreso because of Atlus than Sega). Puyo's also been gaining ground worldwide since the beginning of smash's development and it seems Sega is really trying to push it to that audience now. Not that that's indicative of anything, but I'm surprised how many people are jumping straight to the Sakura bandwagon.
Maybe because the whole mindset of "badass character" always goes into play when choosing the most likely such as Dante seems more fitting or maybe the theme of Puyo Puyo being cute and innocent really turns people off
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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It's just focusing on one market (kids and new gamers) while ignoring others (veteran gamers).
Ahhhhh.

Well, newer gamers means more obvious money, since it's often the core audience. They want lots and lots of sales.

They've done a good job for both either way, so as I said, I'm not really that concerned.
 

RileyXY1

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Ahhhhh.

Well, newer gamers means more obvious money, since it's often the core audience. They want lots and lots of sales.

They've done a good job for both either way, so as I said, I'm not really that concerned.
Except older, more veteran gamers are also a sizable market, we wouldn't have gotten Banjo & Kazooie and Terry otherwise.
 

Rie Sonomura

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SNEKeater

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I know you didn't write it, but this statement makes a lot of assumptions on opinion, potentially dubious claims and strange leaps on context from what seems to be a user who wouldn't be any more informed than anyone else on the matter.

I watched the relevant part of the interview. Nagoshi's saying that, to use his (translated) words, "even now" Nintendo is hardware for kids and teens, but during the Gamecube era they were especially going after kids, which is why he thought Super Monkey Ball "would suit" the platform.

If anything, the statement shows his opinion hasn't wavered much.

Plus, if you go to the link in the OP, there's another statement from a different producer at Sega who described Yakuza's performance on the Wii U a "disaster". I'm not inclined to inherently believe they didn't let that color their view of future titles on the platform. Just because Nagoshi oversees a large amount of products doesn't mean he has final say over where each ends up. I mean that post lists Bayo 2 and 3, which wouldn't even have happened without Nintendo's financial intervention.

I'm not saying I agree with Nagoshi. I think highly popular series in Japan + highly popular system in Japan = very many profits that they're leaving on the table, even with its older skewing audience (that is 80% women? which I kinda doubt, but if true, that even furthers why Switch would be a good fit because it has a proportionally high female demographic) but I think the quoted post is reaching.
Fair point. But in that case I'd take a look at this post, also from Era, that clarifies that Nagoshi's words were heavily took out of context and that article from Tojo Dojo was mostly a clickbait:

Well speaking of doubtful translations...
Nagoshi is pretty pro-Sony no doubt, but this is a textbook example of badly paraphrasing an out of context quote just to get clicks/inflammatory comments (bonus points for mentioning Yakuza and using a "thug picture" on the article)

Nagoshi was asked about Super Monkey Ball and how it being the first Sega game on a Nintendo system might have affected development
He litterally replied that Nintendo platforms back then and even know have an install base made of a wide range of age groups but that the biggest ones are kids and teens (using 基本的に is a bit strong and does show a bias though, but that doesn't mean he didn't say what he said just in the previous sentence), that was an observation on his side (which might be debatable) and certainly not him saying "Nintendo hardwares are for kids and teens", that's litterally puting words in his mouth

I feel like I already made a rather similar post months ago on an older Nagoshi quotes, can't bother to check back, but while it's all fun and games to laugh about these few individuals and their obvious bias towards Sony, let's hold our horse downs and at least check the validity of what they supposedly said before making fun of it.
That one was also a fairly easy to pick for anyone bothering to check beyond a dumb twitter quote to be honest.

Exact quote is there a bit before the 12:00 mark if anyone wants to see by himself
Source:
To explain the pro-Sony part, as far as I know Sony supported Nagoshi and the series in it's origins. Also Yakuza 5 which originally wasn't even planned to be release on the West due to the questionable sales of Yakuza 4 and Yakuza: Dead Souls ended being released over here digitally like 2 years later of it's japanese release thanks to a collaborative effort between Sega and Sony.

This and Sega probably thinking there wasn't really a big demand for Yakuza on other platforms is why I'm guessing they never bothered that much of bringing the series to other consoles. Until recently, of course, because recently it has arrived to Xbox and PC.
 
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LiveStudioAudience

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With Arle, its a couple of factors as to why she's not brought up as often.

Puyo Puyo is gaining popularity but there's still a contrast in the fandom size in the West vs. Japan. Many Sega fans who are familiar with her have characters from other franchises they'd prefer (with Sonic being a big one). Finally characters originating in puzzle games just don't often spring to mind for some in regards to something like Smash. It doesn't help that many of them in the West were more often paired with preexisting characters from other genres (Yoshi cast in Tetris Attack, Robotnik in Mean Bean Machine, Pokemon Puzzle League, etc).
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Except older, more veteran gamers are also a sizable market, we wouldn't have gotten Banjo & Kazooie and Terry otherwise.
And?

You think it's their magical only market now?

There's two powerful markets. Newer games is just their stronger market. So that's what they go with.

We never had issues also getting characters for veteran games. That's also a lot more what happens with the base game. Also, that's why Hero even has an alt beyond Luminary too. Because those alts are to appeal to veteran gamers. Hell, the base game is rife full of mostly veteran gamer characters. Incineroar and Isabelle are what, the only newer ones at all? Possibly Chrom too. I forget when his game actually was. Otherwise you have Dark Samus, Ridley, Simon, Richter, King K. Rool, etc. who were all pre-2010. That's a lot.

So again, I'm hardly seeing an issue here. Smash is catering just fine to both. We have 4 more characters left, after all. And there's not a lot of easy choices that debuted(properly) in the 2010's anymore. A lot were pre-2010 and are massively popular. Even rebooted variations like Doom Slayer is still a great option to appeal to both. In fact, many of those characters appeal to both veterans and newer gamers. So...

You're forgetting that for companies, it's important that DLC helps the sales of their games too. These are overall advertisements for them. SNK actually got a lot of re-releases around the same time, so it was all a big business decision to do things at a really good timing. B&K is something they're constantly working with due to Rare Replay, which is why Sakurai outright advertises it. If there's no games whatsoever related to the characters to buy, that makes it harder for a company to say yes. Not impossible, obviously. But every single DLC character has some active game you can find on the market right now. That's not a coincidence. That's just logical business. It's sometimes easier to also get a Mii costume for similar reasons, whether returning or not, since the companies get more bang for their buck if it helps lead to more sales of their products.

I'd love more veteran game characters too, but I never expected a lot of them, especially if they're from completely unused IP's/products. Even Castlevania, for instance, had both Pachinko machines and a successful show going on. And that's just a base game example.
 

Mushroomguy12

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RileyXY1

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With Arle, its a couple of factors as to why she's not brought up as often.

Puyo Puyo is gaining popularity but there's still a contrast in the fandom size in the West vs. Japan. Many Sega fans who are familiar with her have characters from other franchises they'd prefer (with Sonic being a big one). Finally characters originating in puzzle games just don't often spring to mind for some in regards to something like Smash. It doesn't help that many of them in the West were more often paired with preexisting characters from other genres (Yoshi cast in Tetris Attack, Robotnik in Mean Bean Machine, Pokemon Puzzle League, etc).
However, Kiryu being deconfirmed has made her brought up slightly more, but not as much as people are focusing more on Sakura for the next Sega rep even if she is extremely obscure anywhere other than Japan.
 

metalhydra273

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Maybe because the whole mindset of "badass character" always goes into play when choosing the most likely such as Dante seems more fitting or maybe the theme of Puyo Puyo being cute and innocent really turns people off
Which is funny considering if anything that should be more of a plus over those characters considering it's Nintendo. Also ironic since Dante is my 2nd most wanted lol
 

SharkLord

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I feel like Arle's been kinda slept on as a significant front runner for a while now. Everyone kinda wrote her off for Kiryu and I never really understood that, especially since Nintendo calls the shots on the characters and if they had to choose between the two I'd be hard pressed they pick Kiryu. In terms of popularity Yakuza certainly has the upper hand worldwide, but Puyo is rather big in Japan and was very significant in shaping the puzzle genre with the game's niche, spawning similar copycats that we've seen with other huge franchises like Doom and more recently, FNAF. I feel like she'd be a terry/hero type of fighter's pass with the whole semi-niche game largely popular in a singular region, and Microsoft got multiple reps so Joker "stealing" the Sega slot doesn't apply (and I've always felt he got in moreso because of Atlus than Sega). Puyo's also been gaining ground worldwide since the beginning of smash's development and it seems Sega is really trying to push it to that audience now. Not that that's indicative of anything, but I'm surprised how many people are jumping straight to the Sakura bandwagon when her issues at similar but at a larger level.
I suppose it's a matter of personal preferences. There's a couple people on this thread that have been trying to push Sakura for a while, so they saw Kiryu take a hit and went "Now's my chance!" I guess it's kinda like when the Falcom leak gained traction; From what I can gather, Adol ended up being the Falcom rep pushed more, and so he's gotten the most attention. Not to sound too self-indulgent, but I may have had something to do with that...

That being said, I've slowly been leaning Arle as of late. Not sure exactly when, especially with lockdown obliterating my perception of time, but there's been a gut feeling in Arle's favor that's been gradually growing. She's closer to Nintendo than Kiryu, and she's had more time than Sakura to fully branch out into the Western markets. The legacy aspect definitely helps as well.
 

Speed Weed

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Hmmmm, since we're on the topic of Sega characters, I'm curious to see you people's opinion on something: which Sega characters aside from the usual discussed crowd (namely Kiryu, Sakura, Arle, Demi-Fiend and a second Sonic char) do yallz think would hypothetically have the best shot amongst themselves?

They don't have to be likely or even have a positive chance, just in that pool of "any Sega character beyond the usual suspects", which one do you guys think would be...I guess the "least unlikely"?
 

Idon

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Hmmmm, since we're on the topic of Sega characters, I'm curious to see you people's opinion on something: which Sega characters aside from the usual discussed crowd (namely Kiryu, Sakura, Arle, Demi-Fiend and a second Sonic char) do yallz think would hypothetically have the best shot amongst themselves?

They don't have to be likely or even have a positive chance, just in that pool of "any Sega character beyond the usual suspects", which one do you guys think would be...I guess the "least unlikely"?
Demi-fiend, not because he's likely, but because he's the only one not outright implied not to be in the game by an interview.

Also, bias.
 
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spicynun

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Hmmmm, since we're on the topic of Sega characters, I'm curious to see you people's opinion on something: which Sega characters aside from the usual discussed crowd (namely Kiryu, Sakura, Arle, Demi-Fiend and a second Sonic char) do yallz think would hypothetically have the best shot amongst themselves?

They don't have to be likely or even have a positive chance, just in that pool of "any Sega character beyond the usual suspects", which one do you guys think would be...I guess the "least unlikely"?
Using inspiration from your pfp and my own personal bias, Vyse.
 

cashregister9

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Hmmmm, since we're on the topic of Sega characters, I'm curious to see you people's opinion on something: which Sega characters aside from the usual discussed crowd (namely Kiryu, Sakura, Arle, Demi-Fiend and a second Sonic char) do yallz think would hypothetically have the best shot amongst themselves?

They don't have to be likely or even have a positive chance, just in that pool of "any Sega character beyond the usual suspects", which one do you guys think would be...I guess the "least unlikely"?
Gemini Sunrise from Sakura Wars :yeahboi:
 
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Rie Sonomura

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Hmmmm, since we're on the topic of Sega characters, I'm curious to see you people's opinion on something: which Sega characters aside from the usual discussed crowd (namely Kiryu, Sakura, Arle, Demi-Fiend and a second Sonic char) do yallz think would hypothetically have the best shot amongst themselves?

They don't have to be likely or even have a positive chance, just in that pool of "any Sega character beyond the usual suspects", which one do you guys think would be...I guess the "least unlikely"?
ok but hear me out

NiGHTS
 

LiveStudioAudience

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Hmmmm, since we're on the topic of Sega characters, I'm curious to see you people's opinion on something: which Sega characters aside from the usual discussed crowd (namely Kiryu, Sakura, Arle, Demi-Fiend and a second Sonic char) do yallz think would hypothetically have the best shot amongst themselves?

They don't have to be likely or even have a positive chance, just in that pool of "any Sega character beyond the usual suspects", which one do you guys think would be...I guess the "least unlikely"?
Well, in an ideal world...

 

metalhydra273

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Hmmmm, since we're on the topic of Sega characters, I'm curious to see you people's opinion on something: which Sega characters aside from the usual discussed crowd (namely Kiryu, Sakura, Arle, Demi-Fiend and a second Sonic char) do yallz think would hypothetically have the best shot amongst themselves?
AiAi because it'd be funny. Monkey Ball is also pretty popular for a non Sonic Sega franchise. this game needs more funny monkey
 
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Speed Weed

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Using inspiration from your pfp and my own personal bias, Vyse.
Fam as much as I hate to say it, I think he's the pipedreamiest of pipedreams 😔
ok but hear me out

NiGHTS
Well, in an ideal world...

AiAi because it'd be funny. Monkey Ball is also pretty popular for a non Sonic Sega franchise. this game needs more funny monkey
Good ones, actually! AiAi and NiGHTS are definitely some of the more iconic characters in Sega's stable besides Sonic himself, and Beat I think could decently get by given the following JSR's maintained over the years.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Anyway, I was personally thinking:
A. Axel Stone (he used to be one of the more discussed ones, but he's kinda fallen out since)
B. Someone from Valkyria Chronicles
C. One of their older arcade icons (think Space Harrier or Opa-Opa, for example)
D. Someone from Phantasy Star
 
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SharkLord

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Hmmmm, since we're on the topic of Sega characters, I'm curious to see you people's opinion on something: which Sega characters aside from the usual discussed crowd (namely Kiryu, Sakura, Arle, Demi-Fiend and a second Sonic char) do yallz think would hypothetically have the best shot amongst themselves?

They don't have to be likely or even have a positive chance, just in that pool of "any Sega character beyond the usual suspects", which one do you guys think would be...I guess the "least unlikely"?
Axel Stone, I guess? He seems like a pretty big name, seeing as Streets of Rage is one of the most iconic beat-em-ups. Maybe someone from Phantasy Star too, but that's more widely-spread in terms of potential candidates so I don't know who to choose.
 

metalhydra273

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Anyway, I was personally thinking:
A. Axel Stone
B. Someone from Valkyria Chronicles
C. One of their older arcade icons (think Space Harrier or Opa-Opa, for example)
I'm surprised you didn't include Axel over Demi-Fiend initially. Honestly haven't seen much Demi-Fiend spec but I've seen quite a bit of Axel hype. Honestly don't even remember who demi is lol.
 
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cashregister9

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All seriousness.
Selvaria Bles from Valkyria Chronicles and Opa Opa are the other Sega characters that I could see that have not been talked about a lot

(Quick aside: I've seen significantly more Axel talk than Demifiend talk)
 
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spicynun

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Fam as much as I hate to say it, I think he's the pipedreamiest of pipedreams 😔
True, I think I misread your original post lol. Other reps could be Billy Hatcher, Golden Axe or a PSO rep, though they are also very unlikely.
 
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Captain Shwampy

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Hmmmm, since we're on the topic of Sega characters, I'm curious to see you people's opinion on something: which Sega characters aside from the usual discussed crowd (namely Kiryu, Sakura, Arle, Demi-Fiend and a second Sonic char) do yallz think would hypothetically have the best shot amongst themselves?

They don't have to be likely or even have a positive chance, just in that pool of "any Sega character beyond the usual suspects", which one do you guys think would be...I guess the "least unlikely"?
Alis Landale, The first ever female protagonist for RPG's

I actually think she has better shot than Kiryu and Sakura.

1607303890246.png
 
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Speed Weed

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Axel Stone, I guess? He seems like a pretty big name, seeing as Streets of Rage is one of the most iconic beat-em-ups. Maybe someone from Phantasy Star too, but that's more widely-spread in terms of potential candidates so I don't know who to choose.
Alis Landale, The first ever female protagonist for RPG's

I actually think she has better shot than Kiryu and Sakura.

View attachment 294425
****, I TOTALLY FORGOT PHANTASY STAR
 

chocolatejr9

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Hmmmm, since we're on the topic of Sega characters, I'm curious to see you people's opinion on something: which Sega characters aside from the usual discussed crowd (namely Kiryu, Sakura, Arle, Demi-Fiend and a second Sonic char) do yallz think would hypothetically have the best shot amongst themselves?

They don't have to be likely or even have a positive chance, just in that pool of "any Sega character beyond the usual suspects", which one do you guys think would be...I guess the "least unlikely"?
Can I mention Billy Hatcher even though that'll never happen?
 

RileyXY1

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So was Dragon Quest.

And so was Fatal Fury aside from Latin America.
Dragon Quest has had a lot more games localized than Sakura Wars, and Fatal Fury is pretty big even outside Latin America. SNK basically invented the crossover fighting game, are so infamous for difficult boss fights that an entire trope on TV Tropes is named after them, had their own consoles with the Neo Geo, etc.
 

Speed Weed

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I'm surprised you didn't include Axel over Demi-Fiend initially. Honestly haven't seen much Demi-Fiend spec but I've seen quite a bit of Axel hype. Honestly don't even remember who demi is lol.
Quick aside: I've seen significantly more Axel talk than Demifiend talk)
I didn't include him in the "usual crowd" because recently he's fallen heavily out of favor, to the point where I'd struggle to consider him a part of these anymore. These days it's all about dem Sakuras and Kiryus and Ess Em Tees, so while there was a point in time where I'd definitely consider Axel one of the more talked about ones, nowadays? Yeah I see way more Demi talk.
 

chocolatejr9

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I didn't include him in the "usual crowd" because recently he's fallen heavily out of favor, to the point where I'd struggle to consider him a part of these anymore. These days it's all about dem Sakuras and Kiryus and Ess Em Tees, so while there was a point in time where I'd definitely consider Axel one of the more talked about ones, nowadays? Yeah I see way more Demi talk.
Sounds like Streets of Rage 4 didn't last as long as we hoped...
 

dream1ng

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So was Dragon Quest.

And so was Fatal Fury.
You have no frame of reference for what you're saying.

Dragon Quest and Fatal Fury/KoF have performed fine for being niche western genres with only a few exceptions that sell in the blockbuster level globally. The vast majority of their titles have been localized and they have thirty-year histories of being worldwide.

Sakura Wars has had two titles even make it out of Japan, both of which performed poorly, and were many years apart from each other. The series holds almost no cache outside Japan.

Moreover, Dragon Quest can sell in one title what Sakura Wars has sold across its entire series.

Apples and oranges, mate.
 
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