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Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

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AceAttorney9000

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Dynasty Warriors falls into the same category as Fate, The characters are so heavily fictionalized that the only thing the real people have in common is the name, Also any character they would add have been dead for decades and most likely don't have an estate.
Unless we're talking about someone like Samanosuke from Onimusha (who is based on a real life person who is still living and breathing to this day), I doubt that being based on real life historical figures who are long dead will be a problem.
 

cashregister9

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Unless we're talking about someone like Samanosuke from Onimusha (who is based on a real life person who is still living and breathing to this day), I doubt that being based on real life historical figures who are long dead will be a problem.
"I'm sorry but even though Lu Bu died in the year 199 you still have to pay royalties to use his likeness sorry."

yeah there are very few characters where likeness issues would come into play.
 

Rie Sonomura

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Disappointed. Too many regularly speculated characters.

Half the fun of speculation is expecting the unexpected. I want characters that have threads with 5 pages maximum on Smashboards, or better yet no support thread at all.
Would characters whose threads overall are almost never on the top count?

such threads are:
  • Geno
  • Shantae (ok but seriously why is her thread that insanely active???)
  • Hayabusa
  • Crash
  • Rex
  • Sora
  • Gen 8 Pokémon

anyone who isn’t any of these has much less activity in their threads. And I hope they count too
 
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Shroob

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Honestly, I can't get behind the idea of "Expected = unexciting"


I mean, the fact that people are talking about 'em a lot, and the fact that people seem to legitimately want them, that seems kinda exciting to me, ya know? I understand there's burnout when that's all people seem to talk about, but there's a reason characters like Hayabusa, Crash, Doomguy, Geno etc get talked to death over, and that's because people just really want them.
 

SvartWolf

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or centuries and most likely don't have an estate.

(Specifically for Fate, No one knows if King Arthur was even a real
I mean.. we already have Dracula, a real literature/historical figure but since is the extremely well defined, iconic and essential to the series videogamey dracula of castlevania, it never was a problem. I don't see this being a problem for anything dynasty warriors related really.
 

I.D.

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Honestly, I'm really doubtful of Xenoblade, personally. ARMS and Pokemon both have an evergreen nature to them that makes them easier to sell over time; Xenoblade 2 and other more niche JRPGs usually sell what they're gonna sell in around a month or two and then fall off, and they don't really get revived in the same way games like ARMS and Pokemon do twith their marketing. I'm not sure Nintendo will want to try and bring it back when most people who were interested most likely bought it and Xenoblade Chronicles Remastered has taken the Xenoblade spotlight ATM.

ARMS is a Nintendo mutltiplayer game, and those always keep their staying power thanks to people just really liking Nintendo's multiplayer. Sure, it's not a huge mega seller, but despite what a lot of people say, it did alright for itself and was always poised for a comeback. I think Min Min in Smash will definitely help in making ARMS 2 a reality at some point down the road, probably on the Switch's successor.

Pokemon is...Well, Pokemon. It breaks a lot of our precedents and patterns however it well dang pleases 'cause most of the time it gets a character, it's because Nintendo and TPC did it just to flaunt it some more. It in my personal opinion is probably the best shot out of any Nintendo newcomer right now because it'd be an easy get, and promotes a product that will keep selling throughout the Switch's life. I could easily see a Gen 8 'Mon sneaking in come CP10 or 11.
XB2 sold a million copies on release month and has doubled its total sales since then over the course of 2 years. For a jrpg it has strong legs.

Nintendo still promotes XB2, especially in Japan.

Arguing that XBDE has taken the spotlight is not very convincing as both games serve as natural gateways into each other. XB2 doesn't stop being available on Switch because the other released.
 

Swamp Sensei

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Honestly, I can't get behind the idea of "Expected = unexciting"


I mean, the fact that people are talking about 'em a lot, and the fact that people seem to legitimately want them, that seems kinda exciting to me, ya know? I understand there's burnout when that's all people seem to talk about, but there's a reason characters like Hayabusa, Crash, Doomguy, Geno etc get talked to death over, and that's because people just really want them.
It's peak "I don't care about the games or characters themselves, I just want surprises" talk.

It's being contrarian. It's not fueled by you genuinely liking the characters who are less speculated about.

Hipster talk essentially. Just without the funny hats.
 
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P.Kat

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With what Nintendo showed at their Treehouse today, I can see Impa actually having a chance of happening.

They fleshed out the combat a bit, each character can use the Sheikah slate, along with elemental attacks (lightning rod, ice rod, fire rod). Bit more of Impa's repertoire has been shown, now along with shadow clones, runes, paper seals, and explosives, she can summon a giant frog to land on enemies.

Disappointed. Too many regularly speculated characters.

Half the fun of speculation is expecting the unexpected. I want characters that have threads with 5 pages maximum on Smashboards, or better yet no support thread at all.
Well the Amaterasu thread as about 6 pages long if your interested in checking it out, otherwise I'm sure you can (somewhat unfortunately) find more support threads like the Ammy's around here if you look hard enough.
 

cosmicB

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Would characters whose threads overall are almost never on the top count?

such threads are:
  • Geno
  • Shantae (ok but seriously why is her thread that insanely active???)
  • Hayabusa
  • Crash
  • Rex
  • Sora
  • Gen 8 Pokémon

anyone who isn’t any of these has much less activity in their threads. And I hope they count too
Depends on the character. Really, it doesn't have to be limited to Smashboards. Like I would consider Heavy a regularly speculated character in the greater smash bubble, but his thread is 6 pages long here despite existing since 2018.

I want characters that didn't even enter anyone's minds. Someone like Vyse from Skies of Arcadia or Ryudo from Grandia 2. Someone like Sissel from Ghost Trick. Serge from Chrono Cross, Corobo from Little King's Story, Derek Stiles from Trauma Center, Beatrice or Battler from Umineko (okay, these actually have some representation even if not on this site).

There are 43 pages worth of speculated character support threads on this site, and while that's a lot, I still find it way too limiting. We're talking about the history of an entire medium here, and yet people keep coalescing around the same picks over and over. It's just incredibly boring to me, which is why I think we need more shakeups like Terry.
 
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Shroob

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Depends on the character. Really, it doesn't have to be limited to Smashboards. Like I would consider Heavy a regularly speculated character in the greater smash bubble, but his thread is 6 pages long here despite existing since 2018.

I want characters that didn't even enter anyone's minds. Someone like Vyse from Skies of Arcadia or Ryudo from Grandia 2. Someone like Sissel from Ghost Trick. Serge from Chrono Cross, Corobo from Little King's Story, Derek Stiles from Trauma Center, Beatrice or Battler from Umineko (okay, these actually have some representation even if not on this site).

There are 43 pages worth of speculated character support threads on this site, and while that's a lot, I still find it way too limiting. We're talking about the history of an entire medium here, and yet people keep coalescing around the same picks over and over. It's just incredibly boring to me, which is why I think we need more shakeups like Terry.
And then the shakeup becomes boring when that's the only thing people talk about, and it wasn't like Terry was this completely unheard of character either, it was just most people never considered the game that basically spawned the series as a viable candidate.
 

AceAttorney9000

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Honestly, I can't get behind the idea of "Expected = unexciting"


I mean, the fact that people are talking about 'em a lot, and the fact that people seem to legitimately want them, that seems kinda exciting to me, ya know? I understand there's burnout when that's all people seem to talk about, but there's a reason characters like Hayabusa, Crash, Doomguy, Geno etc get talked to death over, and that's because people just really want them.
It's peak "I don't care about the games or characters themselves, I just want surprises" talk.

It's being contrarian, not because you genuinely like the characters who are less speculated about.

Hipster talk essentially. Just without the funny hats.
Here's a steaming hot take: when it comes to Smash characters, surprise is overrated.

While it's nice to have unexpected characters like Joker every once in a while, being unexpected doesn't automatically make a character a better pick than oft-discussed characters. You might as well be saying that you want Nintendo and the developers to completely ignore the fans and not put in long awaited characters like Ridley, King K. Rool, and Banjo.

When Smash Boards was temporarily down for maintenance and everyone was talking over on the Discord, I said that I thought that this thread was generally "anti-fan favorites", and bad takes like "surprise characters are better than expected fan favorites" are partially the reason why.
 

Swamp Sensei

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It's just incredibly boring to me, which is why I think we need more shakeups like Terry.
Thing is... Terry make sense in hindsight.

I want characters that didn't even enter anyone's minds. Someone like Vyse from Skies of Arcadia or Ryudo from Grandia 2. Someone like Sissel from Ghost Trick. Serge from Chrono Cross, Corobo from Little King's Story, Derek Stiles from Trauma Center, Beatrice or Battler from Umineko
Do any of these characters make sense in hindsight?
 

spicynun

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Depends on the character. Really, it doesn't have to be limited to Smashboards. Like I would consider Heavy a regularly speculated character in the greater smash bubble, but his thread is 6 pages long here despite existing since 2018.

I want characters that didn't even enter anyone's minds. Someone like Vyse from Skies of Arcadia or Ryudo from Grandia 2. Someone like Sissel from Ghost Trick. Serge from Chrono Cross, Corobo from Little King's Story, Derek Stiles from Trauma Center, Beatrice or Battler from Umineko (okay, these actually have some representation even if not on this site).

There are 43 pages worth of speculated character support threads on this site, and while that's a lot, I still find it way too limiting. We're talking about the history of an entire medium here, and yet people keep coalescing around the same picks over and over. It's just incredibly boring to me, which is why I think we need more shakeups like Terry.
Vyse would be a dream come true.
 

Swamp Sensei

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Here's a steaming hot take: when it comes to Smash characters, surprise is overrated.

While it's nice to have unexpected characters like Joker every once in a while, being unexpected doesn't automatically make a character a better pick than oft-discussed characters. You might as well be saying that you want Nintendo and the developers to completely ignore the fans and not put in long awaited characters like Ridley, King K. Rool, and Banjo.

When Smash Boards was temporarily down for maintenance and everyone was talking over on the Discord, I said that I thought that this thread was generally "anti-fan favorites", and bad takes like "surprise characters are better than expected fan favorites" are partially the reason why.
I think a balance is important.

Surprises shouldn't come at the cost of fan favorites and vice versa. And ultimately, a good surprise character should make you go... "Oh.... I get it," after they are revealed.

I think its why the three "surprise characters" of the past are well received nowadays. :ultgnw::ultrob::ultduckhunt:
 

Strife

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It's peak "I don't care about the games or characters themselves, I just want surprises" talk.

It's being contrarian, not because you genuinely like the characters who are less speculated about.

Hipster talk essentially. Just without the funny hats.
Well said.

I believe some characters that are highly speculated on are boring(Lloyd for example) but its completely unrelated to people wanting them in the game, I also disagree with Shroob that people wanting them makes the character exciting in and of itself.

To me what makes a character boring is how much they blend in with the rest of the cast, as such another JRP rep is not what I want. I'd like some gaming genres that haven't been represented like a rhythm and FPS based character. Also keep I hope they keep up with these high extreme mechanics, its the best part about these reveals
 

cosmicB

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And then the shakeup becomes boring when that's the only thing people talk about, and it wasn't like Terry was this completely unheard of character either, it was just most people never considered the game that basically spawned the series as a viable candidate.
The point isn't to make people to dwell on shakeups, it's to make them think outside the box. Perhaps Joker fits more than Terry here for the reason stated below.

Thing is... Terry make sense in hindsight.


Do any of these characters make sense in hindsight?
In what way? As in Sakurai bias or something else? Because if so, maybe not in the sense of Terry, but possibly Joker. IIRC, we weren't aware that Persona 5 was an incredibly important game to Sakurai pre-Joker announcement (correct me if I'm wrong here). I wouldn't be surprised if something like Little King's Story (or any of Yoshiro Kimura's games for that matter) were just the right type of weirdness for him to find them extremely important.

But we do have other characters that currently fit that like 2B, Monokuma, or a 13 Sentinels rep (which would fit here because it would be 100% unexpected).
 

Shroob

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The point isn't to make people to dwell on shakeups, it's to make them think outside the box. Perhaps Joker fits more than Terry here for the reason stated below.



In what way? As in Sakurai bias or something else? Because if so, maybe not in the sense of Terry, but possibly Joker. IIRC, we weren't aware that Persona 5 was an incredibly important game to Sakurai pre-Joker announcement (correct me if I'm wrong here). I wouldn't be surprised if something like Little King's Story (or any of Yoshiro Kimura's games for that matter) were just the right type of weirdness for him to find them extremely important.

But we do have other characters that currently fit that like 2B, Monokuma, or a 13 Sentinels rep (which would fit here because it would be 100% unexpected).
No, we absolutely knew how important P5 was to Sakurai, the guy literally said that he designed the game's menus based on it, and again, Joker wasn't this unheard of character, people just didn't expect it since Sony and Nintendo don't play as nice as Nintendo and Microsoft do, and up to that point, Persona was a pretty Sony-Exclusive series except the Q games.


Joker shook up speculation in that you didn't need a super good, if any, Nintendo connection to get in, but again, he wasn't a 'literal who' either.
 

Cutie Gwen

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I don't think the majority of people here prefer surprises over popular characters but rather have a more open mind about character suggestions, leading them to like charactees who get discussed less, be it because of being very open minded or due to familiarity. After all, if someone asked you "Do you want someone who's fun and unique or someone you already like who's fun and unique?", chances are they'll take the latter, big shocker.


Also I swear people who said this thread is anti-popular characters all seem to want the same characters and are frustrated with how their favourits aren't popular
 

BlondeLombax

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I want characters that didn't even enter anyone's minds. Someone like Vyse from Skies of Arcadia or Ryudo from Grandia 2. Someone like Sissel from Ghost Trick. Serge from Chrono Cross, Corobo from Little King's Story, Derek Stiles from Trauma Center, Beatrice or Battler from Umineko (okay, these actually have some representation even if not on this site).
I've been extremely vocal lately about a certain character that might scratch that itch for you. If you've seen some of my recent posts, she should at least be mentioned offhandedly.

That reminds me, apparently an interview with Koei Tecmo said that they haven't been contacted about Smash representation yet, but they would rather have Dead or Alive's Kasumi over Ryu. Can anyone confirm?
 

cosmicB

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No, we absolutely knew how important P5 was to Sakurai, the guy literally said that he designed the game's menus based on it, and again, Joker wasn't this unheard of character, people just didn't expect it since Sony and Nintendo don't play as nice as Nintendo and Microsoft do, and up to that point, Persona was a pretty Sony-Exclusive series except the Q games.


Joker shook up speculation in that you didn't need a super good, if any, Nintendo connection to get in, but again, he wasn't a 'literal who' either.
Fair enough. In that case, there really are no examples, at least for Ultimate. We'd have to go back to Melee with Ice Climbers to get a good idea of what I want here.

That said, I'm also not opposed to big characters that just aren't speculated because people just don't think of them. Like I've been on the Hatsune Miku train forever even if her origins are dubious enough to break the no-non game rule, or someone like Kratos who people don't consider because Sony. And it's not like I want the whole pass to be that, just 1 or 2 characters. I have my own favorites that I'd like to see even if most of their support is middling rather than massive.
 

Shroob

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Fair enough. In that case, there really are no examples, at least for Ultimate. We'd have to go back to Melee with Ice Climbers to get a good idea of what I want here.

That said, I'm also not opposed to big characters that just aren't speculated because people just don't think of them. Like I've been on the Hatsune Miku train forever even if her origins are dubious enough to break the no-non game rule, or someone like Kratos who people don't consider because Sony. And it's not like I want the whole pass to be that, just 1 or 2 characters. I have my own favorites that I'd like to see even if most of their support is middling rather than massive.
Miku would be great


If she wasn't a licensing nightmare.


Considering all her best songs are owned by their respective composers, that'd be a hell of a web of copyright to wade through.
 

cosmicB

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I've been extremely vocal lately about a certain character that might scratch that itch for you. If you've seen some of my recent posts, she should at least be mentioned offhandedly.

That reminds me, apparently an interview with Koei Tecmo said that they haven't been contacted about Smash representation yet, but they would rather have Dead or Alive's Kasumi over Ryu. Can anyone confirm?
Sure, and I'd love the reaction to her, but we're not getting a Senran Kagura character. Speculation should still be at least a little bit grounded in reality I would say.
 

Professor Pumpkaboo

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It's peak "I don't care about the games or characters themselves, I just want surprises" talk.

It's being contrarian. It's not fueled by you genuinely liking the characters who are less speculated about.

Hipster talk essentially. Just without the funny hats.
call me a hipster but i like being the contrarian. It gets lonely liking and wanting characters no one else does but at least im not just being a sheep
 
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Swamp Sensei

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call me a hipster but i like being the contrarian. It gets lonely liking and wanting characters no one else does but at least im not just being a sheep
That's different.

You're wanting characters you actually enjoy. That's respectable.

You aren't wanting characters just for the surprise factor.
 

Professor Pumpkaboo

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That's different.

You're wanting characters you actually enjoy. That's respectable.

You aren't wanting characters just for the surprise factor.
Oh OH oh yeah you right, you right
Miku would be great


If she wasn't a licensing nightmare.


Considering all her best songs are owned by their respective composers, that'd be a hell of a web of copyright to wade through.
Imagine hearing Worlds End Dancehall on the P5 stage
 

cosmicB

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Miku would be great


If she wasn't a licensing nightmare.


Considering all her best songs are owned by their respective composers, that'd be a hell of a web of copyright to wade through.
It would depend on what the song list is, which to be fair would feel extremely incomplete without the greats like most of Wowaka's stuff. Not sure how the rights work there seeing as the guy is unfortunately no longer with us.

It would absolutely be a headache of course, but I could see Sakurai managing to pull it off somehow. Likely slightly easier to get than Sora tbh. Probably not happening, but if Sakurai and Nintendo really wanted it, they'd be able to figure something out I think.
 

cosmicB

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That's different.

You're wanting characters you actually enjoy. That's respectable.

You aren't wanting characters just for the surprise factor.
The characters I listed are still ones I genuinely want. Smash is more than just speculation and once the luster wears off, we still gotta use/know how to play against these characters. And it's not like surprises are everything. Custer from Custer's Revenge would be a surprise, but he's hardly someone I'd want on the roster, even if the reaction would be amusing for a day or two.

I'm just sick of people going back to the same characters when my favorites lie way outside the mainstream, and not through any need to be "hipster" or condescending to people but just because that's where my tastes lie. Like there's not many people that have Ghost Trick in their top 3 games of all time.
 

Swamp Sensei

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The characters I listed are still ones I genuinely want. Smash is more than just speculation and once the luster wears off, we still gotta use/know how to play against these characters. And it's not like surprises are everything. Custer from Custer's Revenge would be a surprise, but he's hardly someone I'd want on the roster, even if the reaction would be amusing for a day or two.

I'm just sick of people going back to the same characters when my favorites lie way outside the mainstream, and not through any need to be "hipster" or condescending to people but just because that's where my tastes lie. Like there's not many people that have Ghost Trick in their top 3 games of all time.
If you just genuinely want those characters, that's absolutely fine.

But stuff like this...

Half the fun of speculation is expecting the unexpected. I want characters that have threads with 5 pages maximum on Smashboards, or better yet no support thread at all.
Makes it seem you're coming from a different angle.
 

Droodle

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I just find it funny that after Min Min and Steve, people still expect/talk about the same 10 or so characters that were talked about at the start of this pass. The only thing that changed is that Hayabusa made a big comeback, but I still find it funny. After 2 characters who I think most people did not enter this pass expecting, speculation really hasn't changed a lot. I guess you could count out Travis now though.

Some time ago after Steve, I saw someone arguing that the rest of this pass will 100% contain 4 of these characters.
  • Crash Bandicoot
  • Geno
  • Lloyd
  • Rex and Pyra
  • Hayabusa
  • Dante
  • and characters of a similar level

And I'm like: "We're not really good at this, are we?"
Like I get why people would be confident in these sort of picks, but ALL 4?! I expected by now that people would expect at least 1 more "Surprise, you didn't expect this" type of character.
 
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Godzillathewonderdog

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If the rest of the pass was...

Geno
Lloyd
Monster Hunter
Ryu Hayabusa

How would you react?
“Damn, I wish they just brought back tMii costumes instead of making them fighters.”

Seriously though they are definitely worthwhile additions, and I’d be satisfied with them, but it’s not a very exciting line up to me. They are all kind of obvious choices which makes it pretty boring to me. Also there are several other Capcom characters I would prefer over MH, and there are several other JRPG characters I would prefer over Lloyd. I would be happy to see Ryu Haybusa and Geno finally get in though.
 

SharkLord

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Honestly, I can't get behind the idea of "Expected = unexciting"


I mean, the fact that people are talking about 'em a lot, and the fact that people seem to legitimately want them, that seems kinda exciting to me, ya know? I understand there's burnout when that's all people seem to talk about, but there's a reason characters like Hayabusa, Crash, Doomguy, Geno etc get talked to death over, and that's because people just really want them.
As someone who has fun watching hot topic characters get the boot for the sake of giving some changes in the speculative scene, no matter how small, I agree with this post. There's a reason the DLC isn't someone like Guntz, Cirno, and Gandrayda.

Still, I like to have a balance. Popular requests on their own is fine, but having all of them be popular requests feels a bit simple and predictable. A 50-50 split would be nice, though given most my desired characters seem to be fairly overlooked I'd probably prefer more underdogs and sleepers.
 
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