Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[pupNapoleon]

Just admit ya'll just don't like Fire Emblem and move on lol

Corrin got in for the exact same reason, the devs (not anyone high up, I must stress this out) wanted a new character at the time as well

I didnt realize we had someone from Nintendo here to explain who made what decisions.

 

[Shroob]

2020 Me, "Hey 2018 me, how was that E3?"

2018 Me, "Whoa, it was AWESOME Ridley and everyone is here! What's it like in the future? Who's your main?"

2020 Me, "Oh man, Ultimate's great, we've gotten 2 waves of DLC characters, and my current main is Enderman."

2018, "Oh that's awes-----wait... what?"

 

[TheBeastHimself]

Can we just talk about the subtle ways in which Sakurai has said "**** you and your opinions" when revealing characters? Yes, I'm exaggerating, but c'mon this **** is funny. Like when he gave the finger during Byleth's reveal trailer. I know he didn't actually give the finger, but like, the implication is there and Sakurai was probably like "what's a good way to justify giving the audience the finger without technically doing it?"

Also, Steve just staring dead into the camera and teabagging.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

How much did Splatoon sell back in it's heyday, again?

If ARMS is anything like it, it'll get a sequel for sure someday. It may not even be a few years off, we just have no clue it exists yet.

I wouldn't say Min Min's inclusion was so much an attempt to "revive" it when a single very new game IP wasn't exactly "dead" to begin with.

 

[N3ON]

2020 Me, "Hey 2018 me, how was that E3?"

2018 Me, "Whoa, it was AWESOME Ridley and everyone is here! What's it like in the future? Who's your main?"

2020 Me, "Oh man, Ultimate's great, we've gotten 2 waves of DLC characters, and my current main is Enderman."

2018, "Oh that's awes-----wait... what?"

Still got nothing on maining Sanshead, let's be real.

 

[MooMew64]

2020 Me, "Hey 2018 me, how was that E3?"

2018 Me, "Whoa, it was AWESOME Ridley and everyone is here! What's it like in the future? Who's your main?"

2020 Me, "Oh man, Ultimate's great, we've gotten 2 waves of DLC characters, and my current main is Enderman."

2018, "Oh that's awes-----wait... what?"

2020 Me: "Yeah, and I main Cup Head Sans and Vault Boy Callie!"

2018 Me: "You what now?"

 

[Hadokeyblade]

If we were to go beyond fiction to get a widely known public figure in Smash, I feel like they should still have some ties to Nintendo like most third party characters in Smash do.

So, just going to throw it out there:

I hate how much of a colossal failure Codename steam was.

When I played it I saw some serious potential for a good addition to smash but I know it's never going to happen because there's no incentive to do it.

 

[TheBeastHimself]

I hate how much of a colossal failure Codename steam was.

When I played it I saw some serious potential for a good addition to smash but I know it's never going to happen because there's no incentive to do it.

And they hyped that game up to, I thought it was going to be the start of something new. I remember seeing it have dedicated sections in a few Nintendo Directs before release.

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

I didnt realize we had someone from Nintendo here to explain who made what decisions.

I think Sakurai said during an interview at one point that he was initially against Corrin, but was convinced that they could be a unique character by the people working under him.

 

[N3ON]

How much did Splatoon sell back in it's heyday, again?

If ARMS is anything like it, it'll get a sequel for sure someday. It may not even be a few years off, we just have no clue it exists yet.

I wouldn't say Min Min's inclusion was so much an attempt to "revive" it when a single very new game IP wasn't exactly "dead" to begin with.

The original Splatoon did around 5 mil. But on the Wii U. Which is hugely impressive.

ARMS has done a little over 2 mil. But that's still very good for a new IP. Nintendo has greenlit sequels for less. I think even Astral Chain will continue, and it's around 1 mil. I mean, that's still above how Xenoblade began, and how Bayo 2 did.

But now Ring Fit is probably going to cap out above Splatoon 1. I think right now it's over 4 mil, but I imagine it'll keep selling. That's why I personally think Ring Fit is a lock for inclusion next time. And yes, I know "lock" is thrown around very liberally, usually. But I believe it fits here.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Honestly this is more unbelievable as a Smash screenshot than anything involving Terry fighting Sans and Erdrick in Green Hill Zone.

 

[Shroob]

I think Sakurai said during an interview at one point that he was initially against Corrin, but was convinced that they could be a unique character by the people working under him.

That would be correct.

Sakurai on the inclusion of Cloud, Corrin, and Bayonetta in Smash Bros. Wii U/3DS

Super Smash Bros. director Masahiro Sakurai often writes columns that are featured in Famitsu. There’s a new piece in this week’s issue, and unsurprisingly, it’s dedicated to Super Smash Bros. for Wii U and 3DS. Sakurai specifically comments on the latest DLC characters: Cloud, Corrin, and...

nintendoeverything.com

Moving on to Corrin, Sakurai mentions that since they’ve been making DLC for Smash Bros. Wii U and 3DS, they’ve been thinking about adding a character from a title that’s about to or just saw release. The game of choice here falls to Fire Emblem Fates, which came out in Japan back in June and will be heading west in February. Sakurai writes that he himself thought they were adding too many characters from Fire Emblem, but after speaking with the development staff, he was assured that Corrin would make for an interesting fighter.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Guys, now that we know Sakurai spoke with Mojang 5 years ago before he put Steve in Smash...

Does that mean Cacomallow could be real? The reason a lot of us think it's fake is because it's been about a year since it came out, but now we know characters (and therefore potentially Mii Costumes) can be much longer in development.

 

[cosmicB]

Okay but would Jesus be another camper?

All questions about Jesus shall be deffered to Deep Leffen Bot at this time.

I used to be a very firm believer in the Anti-Christ until I learned about Jesus. And honestly, boys, Jesus seems like a no-brainer. If you haven't already, give him a like or a follow. And, heck, if you like what he has to say, check out his OnlyFans account.

— Deep Leffen Bot (@DeepLeffen) September 30, 2020

 

[StarBot]

I didnt realize we had someone from Nintendo here to explain who made what decisions.

Corrin was the Best Choice for Smash DLC

For the written version please see below the video! It was over 2 years ago that fans watched the Final Super Smash Bros. Direct that capped off Smash For’s DLC reveals. Smash For’s DLC had been re…

sourcegaming.info

 

[TheBeastHimself]

I wonder if ARMS will eventually take off the way Splatoon did. I'm not sure how they missed the mark. I haven't played ARMS myself so excuse any ignorance that spews outta my mouth, but from what I know, ARMS has a considerable fanbase, but nothing huge or game-changing. It's just kind of like "ARMS, yeah, that Switch launch title about boxing. It was fun for a few hours."

 

[Guynamednelson]

Guys, now that we know Sakurai spoke with Mojang 5 years ago before he put Steve in Smash...

Does that mean Cacomallow could be real? The reason a lot of us think it's fake is because it's been about a year since it came out, but now we know characters (and therefore potentially Mii Costumes) can be much longer in development.

Mii Costumes would be much quicker. I doubt Toby Fox played an early beta of Ultimate with Sakurai.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

And they hyped that game up to, I thought it was going to be the start of something new. I remember seeing it have dedicated sections in a few Nintendo Directs before release.

Yeah literally everyone did this game dirty, I thought it was pretty good.

 

[SKX31]

If we were to go beyond fiction to get a widely known public figure in Smash, I feel like they should still have some ties to Nintendo like most third party characters in Smash do.

So, just going to throw it out there:

Lincoln would be amazing - that said, he's not the OG Nintendo character though:

Also, Napoleon has his own GBA game (only officially released in Japan and France, of course), and that game's protagonist is a Spirit in Ultimate.

I usually hang around the competitive discussion thread, but just wanted to come in here and say congrats to anyone who wanted Steve and Minecraft content in general in Smash, I'm happy for y'all! Personally, the reveal was not at all what I was expecting and I was initially disappointed by it (and still not super thrilled), but I can at least appreciate how amazing it is to have Minecraft represented in smash from a crossover standpoint and I'm intrigued by how he'll function (though he looks extremely campy; probably going to be a nightmare to fight against on quickplay lol).



Can't speak much about most of these characters, but I completely agree with buffs for and . I've played both characters pretty seriously in ultimate, and while I think most of the smash community vastly exaggerates how "underwhelming" they are as characters, they both suffer from lackluster start up on their moves and generally don't have much in the way of safe moves.

I agree with the user who said Lucario needs fdata buffs (especially dtilt and ftilt; as it stands now, his cqc is quite poor because he basically has the range of with the start up of on many of his moves), but I also want to add that force palm grab NEEDS to get fixed so that Lucario can have a consistent command grab that he can use to punish opponents for abusing shield and not risk it completely whiffing point blank on shield. Aura sphere is also a bit laggy on start up and cool down, so maybe fix that to avoid him getting smothered so easily. Those fixes alone would probably raise him up nearly a full tier and make him a much more viable competitive character.


needs much less by comparison, Imo. Less landing lag on bair and nair would be great, and maybe making the latter be a smidge faster with more damage output could be a nice QoL change. Fair is pretty solid, but could afford 3 or so frames of start up to make it a truly great move. Up smash is unnecessarily unsafe on shield at -35, and the last move I'd like to see fixed is dtilt (again, just a couple frames shaved off its start up would be quite nice).

With these improvements, I think both Lucario and Banjo would be in pretty good spots and they'd feel solid enough to better justify the substantial time and effort it takes to learn their unintuitive kits and use them well. The longer gaps between character reveals and releases for DLC at this point may help the odds that characters with inconsistencies in their tools will end up getting fixed/buffed, but we'll have to wait and see.

Oh, didn't realize that there was a competitive discussion thread. Well, now I'll watch that one too. Your input is very much appriciated, as a competitive guy myself.

Lucario, yeah, agreed on the frame data / Force Palm fixes. Never really played the character beyond the Classic run, but Lucario felt exactly like you described. They did nerf grabs overall (because they were over-centralized in Smash 4) but likely didn't fully account for how that would affect Lucario. Which is a massive shame, because he needs to be able to condition people into shield so Force Palm can come into play.

I've always had the impression that B-K's Up Tilt's the wonkiest of the bunch, but that's because it looks like it should hit low-profiling opponents when it... doesn't. But that might be intentional since that was designed to be an anti-air. I don't think it helps that Grenades are outdone by Snake's, so people might favor Snake's frame 1 over B-K's (Nerf Snake's grenades a little, perhaps?). But I also agree that B-K need much less to feel viable.

We'll have to wait and see indeed, especially since the major buffs can come at seemingly random (the Cloud buffs in 7.0, which I loved for obvious reasons).

 

[Iko MattOrr]

Guys, now that we know Sakurai spoke with Mojang 5 years ago before he put Steve in Smash...

Does that mean Cacomallow could be real? The reason a lot of us think it's fake is because it's been about a year since it came out, but now we know characters (and therefore potentially Mii Costumes) can be much longer in development.

No, Cacomallow was, is and always will be fake.
I've seen someone showing screenshot of an hat that was identical to the one in the "leak" and confirming that it was modded. The person claimed that it was not the actual thing, it was a copy, but it was perfectly identical to polygon level and the "glitch" they were pointing out as proof that it was impossible to fully recreate it was instead the Mii's black hair clipping through the hat's model and not really a glitch.

 

[PLANTMAN]

Guys, now that we know Sakurai spoke with Mojang 5 years ago before he put Steve in Smash...

Does that mean Cacomallow could be real? The reason a lot of us think it's fake is because it's been about a year since it came out, but now we know characters (and therefore potentially Mii Costumes) can be much longer in development.

It was always fake

and always will be

 

[KingofPhantoms]

The original Splatoon did around 5 mil. But on the Wii U. Which is hugely impressive.

ARMS has done a little over 2 mil. But that's still very good for a new IP. Nintendo has greenlit sequels for less. I think even Astral Chain will continue, and it's around 1 mil. I mean, that's still above how Xenoblade began, and how Bayo 2 did.

But now Ring Fit is probably going to cap out above Splatoon 1. I think right now it's over 4 mil, but I imagine it'll keep selling. That's why I personally think Ring Fit is a lock for inclusion next time. And yes, I know "lock" is thrown around very liberally, usually. But I believe it fits here.

Then yeah, I can easily see an ARMS sequel being in the works as we speak. Even if it's just discussion and concepts for now.

I agree with Ring Fit as well, though Lord knows when the next Smash will eventually be made for that inclusion to happen, though.

 

[Shroob]

So, correct me if I'm wrong but Steve can dump his lava over the edge of a stage right?

I can't find the pic for the life of me for some reason.

 

[TheBeastHimself]

The weirdest thing about today's announcement was that there is now a character in Smash who was designed to be a parody of a creepypasta (Slenderman and Enderman).

 

[Guynamednelson]

So, correct me if I'm wrong but Steve can dump his lava over the edge of a stage right?

I can't find the pic for the life of me for some reason.

That's an edit.

 

[N3ON]

I wonder if ARMS will eventually take off the way Splatoon did. I'm not sure how they missed the mark. I haven't played ARMS myself so excuse any ignorance that spews outta my mouth, but from what I know, ARMS has a considerable fanbase, but nothing huge or game-changing. It's just kind of like "ARMS, yeah, that Switch launch title about boxing. It was fun for a few hours."

Listen, people have to stop comparing new IPs to Splatoon. Because Splatoon is not the benchmark for how new IPs should perform. It performed far far in excess of expectations, and has surpassed 95% of other Nintendo series. It's not the barometer for success as much as it is for a phenomenon of sorts. In its two titles, it's sold around the entirety of the FE franchise.

2 million isn't missing the mark. That's very decent. That's entirely a success, especially for a new IP. That's basically what Kirby and Metroid do, on a good day. There are many Nintendo IPs that haven't reached that level, or take many titles to do so.

ARMS does have shortcomings, but those mostly have to do with the content in the game, as opposed to the commercial performance. Perhaps Nintendo expected it to have better legs (heh), because the sales did fall off pretty drastically... but there's no way they're done trying with that franchise.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Quick Mii Costume prediction list for Friday:

• Creeper Hat
• Hunter Armor (Swordfighter)
• Rathalos Armor (Swordfighter)
• Cadence (Swordfighter)

 

[Shroob]

Quick Mii Costume prediction list for Friday:

• Creeper Hat
• Hunter Armor (Swordfighter)
• Rathalos Armor (Swordfighter)
• Cadence (Swordfighter)

If we are getting 6 Mii costumes, the Capcom ones seem like the safest ones, them or Namco.


Boy you don't know how bad I wish they'd be the Square ones though

 

[Wunderwaft]

If Monster Hunter's mii costumes return with Steve then I think we won't get any Capcom fighters for this pass. It's the same reason why I think we won't get any Namco fighters in this pass, why drop Heihachi's mii costume unceremoniously if a Namco fighter was planned?

 

[TheBeastHimself]

Listen, people have to stop comparing new IPs to Splatoon. Because Splatoon is not the benchmark for how new IPs should perform. It performed far far in excess of expectations, and has surpassed 95% of other Nintendo series. It's not the barometer for success as much as it is for a phenomenon of sorts. In its two titles, it's sold around the entirety of the FE franchise.

2 million isn't missing the mark. That's very decent. That's entirely a success, especially for a new IP. That's basically what Kirby and Metroid do, on a good day. There are many Nintendo IPs that haven't reached that level, or take many titles to do so.

ARMS does have shortcomings, but those mostly have to do with the content in the game, as opposed to the commercial performance. Perhaps Nintendo expected it to have better legs (heh), because the sales did fall off pretty drastically... but there's no way they're done trying with that franchise.

Having this all explained to me, it's certainly good to hear that ARMS has a bright future ahead. Like I said, forgive my ignorance lol, I actually didn't know any of this.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

No, Cacomallow was, is and always will be fake.
I've seen someone showing screenshot of an hat that was identical to the one in the "leak" and confirming that it was modded. The person claimed that it was not the actual thing, it was a copy, but it was perfectly identical to polygon level and the "glitch" they were pointing out as proof that it was impossible to fully recreate it was instead the Mii's black hair clipping through the hat's model and not really a glitch.

Though if you'd like, you can show me that screenshot

 

[N3ON]

It's funny how in the end Nintendo did get people to care about the Miis more than most of the other characters.

Just not for the right reasons.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

The weirdest thing about today's announcement was that there is now a character in Smash who was designed to be a parody of a creepypasta (Slenderman and Enderman).

So, Slenderman is in Smash spiritually, now.

Siren Head and Cartoon Cat confirmed, everybody.

 

[TheBeastHimself]

It's funny how in the end Nintendo did get people to care about the Miis more than most of the other characters.

Just not for the right reasons.

Miis are like Toads, I hate 'em!! Especially that yellow Toad from Mario Galaxy that just sleeps, should've thrown them right out of the Observatory's orbit.

 

[SharkLord]

Guys, now that we know Sakurai spoke with Mojang 5 years ago before he put Steve in Smash...

Does that mean Cacomallow could be real? The reason a lot of us think it's fake is because it's been about a year since it came out, but now we know characters (and therefore potentially Mii Costumes) can be much longer in development.

I highly doubt they've been working on Steve for five years straight. Negotiating but falling short of the mark multiple times, I could see, but definitely not working on them. Just because Nintendo and Microsoft/Mojang were talking about it doesn't mean they were 100% committed to them.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Oh crap, I just realized something:

Steve's trailer was the first to not involve the Smash invitation at all since - ironically enough - Banjo & Kazooie's.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

I hope we get a Master chief Mii gunner

 

[N3ON]

Having this all explained to me, it's certainly good to hear that ARMS has a bright future ahead. Like I said, forgive my ignorance lol, I actually didn't know any of this.

No worries. Sorry if I seemed terse, but Splatoon seems to be the example to which everyone wants to hold up new IPs, despite the level of its success being very atypical.

It's basically like wondering why all Nintendo series can't be triple-A titles out of the gate.

 

[Shroob]

Yeah, if the Cacodemon hat misses the boat once again, that's gonna be a big from me. How long must we allow this leak to continue before we can it?

 

[Garteam]

I wonder if ARMS will eventually take off the way Splatoon did. I'm not sure how they missed the mark. I haven't played ARMS myself so excuse any ignorance that spews outta my mouth, but from what I know, ARMS has a considerable fanbase, but nothing huge or game-changing. It's just kind of like "ARMS, yeah, that Switch launch title about boxing. It was fun for a few hours."

I think ARMS' biggest sin is the sin of a lot of modern fighting games, it lacked much to do outside of, well, fighting. ARMS does have a surprisingly high level of depth to its combat, but the issue is that there just isn't a ton for those who don't want to explore that system to its absolute fullest. The mini-games were a decent distraction to this issue, but there's still not enough variety to really have people continue playing the game for a long time if they're not interested in high level in competitive play.

The way most fighters get around this is:
1. Story mode with cinematic cutscenes to attract causal fans.
2. Nickel and diming those who are in for the long haul with costume packs, long term support, and (unfortunately) microtransactions.

I think 1 is pretty much inevitable for an ARMS sequel, while 2 was kinda played with given the game's decently long support and free post-launch characters. Here's to hoping the guy who priced Diddy Kong in Mario Kart Tour stays far away from ARMS though.