Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[PLANTMAN]

Has this been discussed yet?

There was a problem fetching the tweet

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Steve comes from a world populated by NPCs that look like Squidward. And not the handsome version.

So by Minecraft standards he's not even remotely ugly.

 

[SharkLord]

Walmart Gaming says it's Geno so I believe them.

/s

It is very apparent that the 2 most consistent things to come out of DLC are characters having a specific gimmick/mechanic that's mostly based from the games they come from and everyone having a cinematic Final Smash. These have been the pattern for both Fighter Passes so far, and I don't think that's going to change. It certainly makes me wonder what the gimmicks/mechanics for the next 4 characters are going to be. I even have a few ideas for certain franchises, but I'll save those for after the Steve presentation airs in case certain Mii Costumes get revealed and it happens to be somebody I talked about.

I also have to mention Steve's block ability must've taken a ****load of time to work on with what Sakurai said about reworking all the stages, and that's probably why we haven't gotten a reveal for quite some time. He does seem like the big character for the E3 reveal, but even without COVID striking the whole world to shambles, would they have managed to get a trailer ready in time for their E3 Direct?

I dunno if that's entirely consistent. Byleth had jack in terms of unusual mechanics, and Banjo's Wonderwing is just a move that functions differently, not an all-encompassing gimmick. The movesets are pretty loyal, yes, but that doesn't always translate to a gimmick.

 

[N3ON]

I like the Ultimate render of Steve better; he might be ugly in both versions (he definitely is, but that's part of the charm), but in the Smash one I think it's more expressive. Yes, it seems less expressive but I think it's actually more. The Ultimate render seems like he's trying hard to look like a pile of blocks, he is saying "I'm just a block" so much, while the left one is more plastic-y and has a soulless "New Super Mario Bros"-like feel, generic running pose included.

ANd BTW I can't wait to see cubic Kirby.

I think you might be seeing what you want to see, personality-wise...

 

[Trevenant]

Similar, sure. The same? I just dont see it that way. I mean, Banjo not only had his own franchise, but was on the box for the N64. Geno... works as a Mii Premium costume.

Yeah emphasis on similar. But my point is that the major merit BK has was the fan demand. Without that they would have never gotten in, franchise or no franchise. And yeah, Geno works as a premium mii costume... But so could a bunch of other characters so I don't really see that affecting much in the long run

 

[TheBeastHimself]

it's more fun (and longer lasting) for a character to impact the importance of Smash as a gaming legacy museum.

I completely agree with your post, but it's a bit disheartening that many others would disagree with this quoted portion of your post in the context of Steve.

It's very very divided. Minecraft is one of the most sold and played games, so of course there's lots of fans out there.
I think they're a good addition to smash, but I they don't mean much to me, and i also understand the sentiment of not wanting minecraft in smash, it's such a bland character, not everyone puts much into them, if minecraft doesn't have a special meaning to them.

Yeah no, I completely understand not wanting Steve in Minecraft. The character is hard on the eyes to just look at, and his inclusion reeks of "more popular mainstream games can join the fray; FORTNITE JONESY?!"

At the end of the day, I got a bit emotional with my posts up there. I just hate seeing people act like children because they were disappointed today. Because I guarantee you if I acted the same way if a different character was revealed today, I would've been scolded and shunned. Guess it's fair game, maybe I'll ***** and moan when Sora or Dante is announced (nah, just kidding.)

 

[pupNapoleon]

Steve is an ugly character, but I thought something like the left one looked fine, all things considered.

I still think it's preferable for the purposes of Smash, frankly. And the pose is more dynamic.

Even most of the mockups I saw, which were presumably made by Steve fans, were made with something closer to this than what we got.


Jokes on you, Sakurai runs the Walmart Gaming Canada account.

It's the perfect disguise.

Dammit, I agree with you.

 

[Iko MattOrr]

I think you might be seeing what you want to see, personality-wise...

I dunno, maybe you are right... but at the end it's a bunch of boxes with pixels so it's natural that you have to use some imagination to interpret his personality.

 

[GoodGrief741]

I've been exploring the web, looking around here. I've seen some people say that Steve is the worst addition to Smash Bros and is so mind-boggingly bad that's transcended any level of absurdity. Is Steve really that bad for some of you guys?

Yes

 

[Guynamednelson]

Has this been discussed yet?

There was a problem fetching the tweet

This is getting ridiculous. What were they even doing for those five years? I don't even think something among the lines of them having to put in Banjo first would make Steve talks take this long. It probably isn't even the norm for characters, considering Sakurai got a build of Three Houses halfway through its development, which would be in 2017/18, AKA not five years before Byleth's reveal.

 

[TheBeastHimself]

Yes

Hehe, fair enough my friend!

 

[Teeb147]

I completely agree with your post, but it's a bit disheartening that many others would disagree with this quoted portion of your post in the context of Steve.



Yeah no, I completely understand not wanting Steve in Minecraft. The character is hard on the eyes to just look at, and his inclusion reeks of "more popular mainstream games can join the fray; FORTNITE JONESY?!"

At the end of the day, I got a bit emotional with my posts up there. I just hate seeing people act like children because they were disappointed today. Because I guarantee you if I acted the same way if a different character was revealed today, I would've been scolded and shunned. Guess it's fair game, maybe I'll ***** and moan when Sora or Dante is announced (nah, just kidding.)

Ok. Well it happens often. Some characters are just hated more for smash than others. Tracer too got a lot of negativity when I or someone talked about her. yet Overwatch is a big title that lots enjoy (even if the balance isn't what some people like right now). People will settle after a while, it's still fresh. I'm just glad it's not 'just' steve, but minecraft, with alex and the other skins (I hope they add Alex to the character section title on this site, because that's how it is on the smash site)

Like I said earlier I'm just annoyed that I dont know how long we gotta wait for the next character, and one slot less, that's about it.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Even most of the mockups I saw, which were presumably made by Steve fans, were made with something closer to this than what we got.

I don't agree with you on much about Steve's presentation, but if it's one thing that I will always 100% agree on is that they chose the most boring pose possible. Like, I didn't think it was possible to get a more uninteresting pose than Chrom's.

 

[Trevenant]

This is getting ridiculous. What were they even doing for those five years? I don't even think something among the lines of them having to put in Banjo first would make Steve talks take this long. It probably isn't even the norm for characters, considering Sakurai got a build of Three Houses halfway through its development, which would be in 2017/18, AKA not five years before Byleth's reveal.

The guy did say that's when talks started in the replies and had no clue about implementation. It so pretty outlandish and the guy doesn't seem too confident in an exact date so maybe he's muddling? Idk

 

[SKX31]

Random question

what would you like to see in version 9.0 overall?

Actual serious answer:

• Some very, very slight nerfs, but nothing serious. Most characters are in a good place, but there are a few moves that are a bit over-tuned. Pikachu's Dash Attack, G&W's Up B, Snake's U-Tilt (overtuned since Brawl by the by). And not just since I hate those moves - the characters are strong even without those moves being so good.
• Characters that desperately need some SAUCE (buffs): - He's in a completely undertuned state; his moves does not do much at all without Aura, at which point a love tap kills him - The Strength / Speed trade off does not work for him, he'd need something else like a sauce-up Pill if he's going to avoid feeling like he's doing much less than regular Mario. One could argue , and Using the Average Pro Tier list for 8.1. (where the last three rank rather low). I'd love if and got some sauce (or preferably reworks at least in Mac's case) in the future, but they sadly seem destined to fill their niché.
• Mechanic Change. Not sure what exactly, but my dream scenario is that shield-dropping or edge cancelling aerials get re-instated. So people have more of a reason to use the platforms instead of just sharking underneath. Probably not going to happen now, but eh, not the end of the world if this doesn't happen.
• Further Online improvements. Sakurai promised, Harada talked about it. Not expecting them to reinvent the wheel, but anything to lessen the pain of missed inputs would help immensely.
• New mode changes (besides Boss Rush): Minecraft blocks in Stage Builder. Golden Opportunity here. Just sayin'.

 

[Iko MattOrr]

In case I will ever play as Steve, I'd play as Enderman all the times.

 

[N3ON]

I dunno, maybe you are right... but at the end it's a bunch of boxes with pixels so it's natural that you have to use some imagination to interpret his personality.

All things considered I find personality a pretty unimportant facet of Smash implementation or merit in a character's favour (which is good for Steve), considering how many characters have the personality of cardboard and how little it informs the actual gameplay of the character. That said, I think Steve's pose in his art is fairly lifeless, though that's certainly not the main drive of my sentiment. Nor even are the animations.

I just notice that almost all the mockups and renders done (which are presumably made by the fans of the character) are of him with a more clean look aimed, presumably, to capture the Smash aesthetic. And now that there's a bit of dissonance between what some of the fans created, and what came to fruition in Smash, Steve being represented in a Smash style is now being criticized within the Smash fandom.

You'd think, without the influence of Smash, it would be the other way around. And, it has been, to date. Personally, and ofc there are exceptions, but I think it enforces that people will just defend whatever Smash does.

 

[Koopaul]

This is getting ridiculous. What were they even doing for those five years? I don't even think something among the lines of them having to put in Banjo first would make Steve talks take this long. It probably isn't even the norm for characters, considering Sakurai got a build of Three Houses halfway through its development, which would be in 2017/18, AKA not five years before Byleth's reveal.

Sakurai made it sound like Minecraft was something he thought was going to be near impossible. It's possible that the problem was Sakurai and Nintendo kept nagging at him until he did it.

 

[Shroob]

I just hope Steve drops soon and not like, 2 weeks from now.


I wanna play lol.

 

[PLANTMAN]

This is getting ridiculous. What were they even doing for those five years? I don't even think something among the lines of them having to put in Banjo first would make Steve talks take this long. It probably isn't even the norm for characters, considering Sakurai got a build of Three Houses halfway through its development, which would be in 2017/18, AKA not five years before Byleth's reveal.

Also wanna point out that if it were 5 years then there was no way pass 2 was a thing when they were negotiating him it could have been for base or fp1

so why would this be a bad thing for rex again Because Steve was negotiated that far in advance?


Anwser: it’s not

don’t know why people want him deconfirmed.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I wanna play lol.

Then go play League of Legends. Don't wait on a Smash update that isn't guaranteed to even have a Mii costume from it yet.

 

[3BitSaurus]

I wanna play lol.

Here.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Characters that desperately need some SAUCE (buffs): - He's in a completely undertuned state; his moves does not do much at all without Aura, at which point a love tap kills him - The Strength / Speed trade off does not work for him, he'd need something else like a sauce-up Pill if he's going to avoid feeling like he's doing much less than regular Mario.

I think Lucario needs a bit of a rework. His attacks are probably fine, but his Aura probably needs to be more than a simple damage scale. Maybe make his moves combo oriented at low percents and kill oriented with high percents.

Dr. Mario should get a total makeover if he appears again. I'd much rather see him use Dr. Mario inspired mechanics than Mario's old moveset. Also, taking a somewhat speedy brawler and making him slower was a silly idea.

 

[Deleted member]

This is getting ridiculous. What were they even doing for those five years? I don't even think something among the lines of them having to put in Banjo first would make Steve talks take this long. It probably isn't even the norm for characters, considering Sakurai got a build of Three Houses halfway through its development, which would be in 2017/18, AKA not five years before Byleth's reveal.

Mojang and Nintendo asking Sakurai to add Steve in Smash for 5 years like

 

[Garteam]

Has this been discussed yet?

There was a problem fetching the tweet

If discussions over Steve began at least 5 years ago, then that lines up around the time that Ultimate's project plan was being developed. Therefore, unless the plan was always to have Steve as some kind of DLC, Steve was most likely planned for Ultimate's base game. Vergeben really was right all along.

Hell, depending on how long those discussions began, Steve may've originally been envisioned as a Smash for DLC character. Sakurai's comments about foreign relations being difficult is starting to get put into perspective.

 

[I.D.]

The same guy saying Minecraft was in negotiations for years also said the second season was decided in 2019. There is no contradiction. Nintendo just couldn't secure a deal in time for base game or season 1.

 

[Gribbo]

I just hope Steve drops soon and not like, 2 weeks from now.


I wanna play lol.

If they're doing the Sakurai Presents on Saturday I doubt it's going to be very long.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Oi what if u had

WoL spoilers ahead

Master Hand Mode? Like Galactus Mode from UMvC3. Like either endless or to take down a specific goal

you’d have Galeem and Dharkon puppets of whomever you want, of either alignment unlike in WoL proper. Even Kirby and the DLC characters. Like how that twitter post of the DLCs having those textures that I shared a while back

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

Actual serious answer:

• Some very, very slight nerfs, but nothing serious. Most characters are in a good place, but there are a few moves that are a bit over-tuned. Pikachu's Dash Attack, G&W's Up B, Snake's U-Tilt (overtuned since Brawl by the by). And not just since I hate those moves - the characters are strong even without those moves being so good.
• Characters that desperately need some SAUCE (buffs): - He's in a completely undertuned state; his moves does not do much at all without Aura, at which point a love tap kills him - The Strength / Speed trade off does not work for him, he'd need something else like a sauce-up Pill if he's going to avoid feeling like he's doing much less than regular Mario. One could argue , and Using the Average Pro Tier list for 8.1. (where the last three rank rather low). I'd love if and got some sauce (or preferably reworks at least in Mac's case) in the future, but they sadly seem destined to fill their niché.
• Mechanic Change. Not sure what exactly, but my dream scenario is that shield-dropping or edge cancelling aerials get re-instated. So people have more of a reason to use the platforms instead of just sharking underneath. Probably not going to happen now, but eh, not the end of the world if this doesn't happen.
• Further Online improvements. Sakurai promised, Harada talked about it. Not expecting them to reinvent the wheel, but anything to lessen the pain of missed inputs would help immensely.
• New mode changes (besides Boss Rush): Minecraft blocks in Stage Builder. Golden Opportunity here. Just sayin'.

I feel like just giving Lucario some frame data buffs would help him a lot. He's just kind of slow for what he is without aura. If he were to be a bit faster to attack it be really nice.

Completely agree with a pill buff for Doc. He mostly just struggles in neutral and that could be the ticket he needs.

I wish Ganon could get some love, too, but I feel like his general design is what's holding him back more than any weaknesses in the moves themselves. The only things I could see helping him a lot at this point would be to let him act after a whiffed aerial side-B or to give him throw combos.

Is Bowser Jr considered kind of bad, or do people think he's good and just don't use him? I haven't gone into competitive viability discussions in a while, so I don't know.

 

[GoodGrief741]

If discussions over Steve began at least 5 years ago, then that lines up around the time that Ultimate's project plan was being developed. Therefore, unless the plan was always to have Steve as some kind of DLC, Steve was most likely planned for Ultimate's base game. Vergeben really was right all along.

Hell, depending on how long those discussions began, Steve may've originally been envisioned as a Smash for DLC character. Sakurai's comments about foreign relations being difficult is starting to get put into perspective.

God damn what could have made talks drag on for so long? 5 years is a really long time to maintain negotiations. If they really stuck through that long to get Steve in Smash then I don't think there's any character they couldn't get.

 

[KillerCage]

So actually, how are you guys feeling about Another Pokemon now? Also about another Mario Character?

Another Mario character? I'm fine with that.
Another Pokemon character?

 

[Banado_Boy]

You know, I just realized that GameXplain didn’t have Steve in their predictions video.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

So riddle me this.

Challenger Pack 6 is Min Min. She was an E3 pick, and paired with an ARMS demo. This clearly, to me at least, seems like an attempt for a second wind for a game that lost a lot of steam after some time.

Do we really think that Nintendo would want to push Min Min, only to crush that effort by revealing Minecraft? That would be arguably the most bone headed thing they could do.

I think it was Min Min, and ONLY Min Min.

 

[CureParfait]

So actually, how are you guys feeling about Another Pokemon now? Also about another Mario Character?

I don't think the chances of a Mario character or Pokemon character happening have really changed.

 

[3BitSaurus]

If discussions over Steve began at least 5 years ago, then that lines up around the time that Ultimate's project plan was being developed. Therefore, unless the plan was always to have Steve as some kind of DLC, Steve was most likely planned for Ultimate's base game. Vergeben really was right all along.

Hell, depending on how long those discussions began, Steve may've originally been envisioned as a Smash for DLC character. Sakurai's comments about foreign relations being difficult is starting to get put into perspective.

Not gonna lie, this is actually insane.

Not to mention, remember IAmShifty's Hayabusa rumors? From the source that gave him Piranha Plant? They would become a lot more likely if we could potentially have this much of a delay between when info on a character first comes around and when the character is revealed.

In a strange way, this kinda reminds me of Gematsu, even.

 

[Garteam]

God damn what could have made talks drag on for so long? 5 years is a really long time to maintain negotiations. If they really stuck through that long to get Steve in Smash then I don't think there's any character they couldn't get.

I think it really was just the language barrier. People who speak both Swedish and Japanese are relatively rare in and of themselves, let alone finding someone who speaks both languages and would be comfortable translating a multimillion dollar contract full of legal jargon. It's likely they had to use English as a common language and then translate from there to their respective languages.

There's also the fact that Sakurai likes to have both the opinions and approval of the original game's devs, which further compounded the language barrier.

 

[pupNapoleon]

The same guy saying Minecraft was in negotiations for years also said the second season was decided in 2019. There is no contradiction. Nintendo just couldn't secure a deal in time for base game or season 1.

Which, youd think, would make people feel Sora is MORE likely, not less...
(Sorry, I forgot the spaghetti monster said Sora is being saved for three games from now).

 

[I.D.]

So riddle me this.

Challenger Pack 6 is Min Min. She was an E3 pick, and paired with an ARMS demo. This clearly, to me at least, seems like an attempt for a second wind for a game that lost a lot of steam after some time.

Do we really think that Nintendo would want to push Min Min, only to crush that effort by revealing Minecraft? That would be arguably the most bone headed thing they could do.

I think it was Min Min, and ONLY Min Min.

Minecraft is a pass seller. Riddle solved.

 

[Gazorpazorpfield]

So riddle me this.

Challenger Pack 6 is Min Min. She was an E3 pick, and paired with an ARMS demo. This clearly, to me at least, seems like an attempt for a second wind for a game that lost a lot of steam after some time.

Do we really think that Nintendo would want to push Min Min, only to crush that effort by revealing Minecraft? That would be arguably the most bone headed thing they could do.

I think it was Min Min, and ONLY Min Min.

It's kinda strange that Nintendo requested an ARMS character to begin with. They don't seem to be releasing a sequel soon, so was the plan to just increase sales of the original? Idk, as promotional picks go, Min Min was a pretty strange one. Of course, with that in mind they could suddenly ask Sakurai to help them 'promote' another series we aren't expecting.

 

[MooMew64]

I just hope Steve drops soon and not like, 2 weeks from now.


I wanna play lol.

Saaaaaaame. I'm already super sold, I wanna mess up some Spirits in WoL with him already, lol.