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Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

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Guybrush20X6

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Actually, that is a good point.


How didn't he have Sans? Like, if you have the Mii costumes from a presentation... how the **** do you miss goddamn Sans?


And no, they didn't do a 'last minute swap' like soo many like to try to say when things don't line up to specific leaks. You're telling me that you get all these costumes.... but not ****ing Sans?
If we give the most charitable reasoning possible, because they didn't want to be seen as Trolling and including Sans would have had everyone dismiss it.

Don't think so but it's a possibility
 

Shroob

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How?



You do realize that other third-party games have gotten their own dedicated Nintendo Directs in the past, right? Dragon Quest, Phoenix Wright, The Wonderful 101, Yo-Kai Watch, Bayonetta, Culdcept, and Dragalia Lost have all gotten their own Directs. Also, this isn't even the first Monster Hunter dedicated Direct, they had dedicated Directs for MH4, MH4G and MHXX. Monster Hunter getting a dedicated Direct doesn't mean anything for a Monster Hunter character's chances for Smash whatsoever.


Well that, as well as the Shiek section, requires a bit of explaination. @Polarthief you may want to add this context to the list.

During Smash 4, people discovered that Little Mac and Bayonetta were built using Captain Falcon and Zero Suit Samus as a base:
  • Little Mac's ladder animation had him end up transitioning into Captain Falcon's idle pose when he reached the top.
  • Duplicate data for Zero Suit Samus was found long before Bayonetta was added and disappeared upon her inclusion.
  • There's also the oddity of Ridley having unused animations for gliding, which was removed in Smash 4, despite being a brand new fighter. It's believed that this is a leftover from Charizard, who not only also has unused gliding animations left over from when he could glide in Brawl, but has a very similar build to Ridley.
Fast forward some time, and people begin noticing that Mii Swordfighter and Duck Hunt are causing All-Star Smash to get all ****y. It's then hypothesized that that the reason it was only happening after Joker's inclusion was because these two characters were used as the basis for future DLC. Both Hero and Banjo, who were revealed at E3, both had very similar designs to both of these characters:
  • Hero is a swordfighter who uses a lot of projectiles, and Mii Swordfighter has a good number of projectiles.
  • Banjo & Kazooie are two characters who fight as one, with one being a bear and the other a bird. Duck Hunt is a dead ringer for the duo (especially with their 8th alt), to the point of being referenced in Banjo & Kazooie's Classic Mode route.
So going forward, people have begun to keep an eye out for other weird glitches and oddities reagrding characters, as they may be indicative of that character being used as the basis for another future character.

... I know this sounds weird and farfetched, but what are you gonna do, eh?


Sure, that would be a believable enough excuse, but it goes a bit further than that: To this day SquareEnix is the only company in Smash history (including Nintendo themselves) to have their own segregated Mii Costume wave not once, but twice.


From what I've heard, that kind of mix-up isn't actually his fault, rather that's actually how the info was revealed to him. All he got were names, and he went ahead and assumed what they were for. Remember when Vergeben was admant on Minecraft content coming to the game? Well as it turned out, the info was misinterpreted. The Ender Dragon was actually Rathalos, whose internal name was "End_Dragon", and the Minecraft Spirit he was told about was actually the pig from Cubivore. Insider information sometimes gets confused and assumptions are made. I agree it sucks, but it's not entirely unique to Mii Costume Guy.


Putting aside my disagreement with the sentiment that Rocket Grunt and Goemon costumes were an easy guess, I don't think we've ever had a Spirit Event that came with new Spirits. It's either been a themed event with existing Spirits or a collection of exclusively new Spirits. Also, I find it very unlikely that Mii Costume Guy's list had entirely Costumes but then also had two names for a Spirit event that simply never materialized despite two of those Spirits already being in the game. I mean, what would be the point of even having a Spirit event where most of the Spirits were old but there's only one new one? That seems like a complete waste of time.


That's the theory, but there's been nothing official said on the matter. They just took it all down for no readily explained reason.


Since this isn't a video game, I'm leaning on this being a one in a blue moon thing. Remember when Nintendo bought the copyright for Super Hornio Brothers so nobody could make porn parodies using the name?


Well, what character do you have in mind? Depending on who it is, I might just be willing to make that myself. :ultridley:
No, I understand the 'why'. I'm asking 'why does it matter.


People have thrown around the "OH! BASE GAME GLITCHES MEAN THAT A CHARACTER'S BEING WORKED ON!" since the game comes out, but actual legitimate, hard evidence and proof has never been put forward for the case aside from "HOLY CRAP GUYS X HAS A GLITCH AND THIS CHARACTER COULD HAVE BEEN USED AS A BASE!"

Like, right now people have found at least a dozen or so odd glitches relating to characters, and no, I don't think many, if any, mean anything. Yes, I know you get the weird things that have potential, like Bowser Jr.'s glitch pre-Plant, but that line of thinking has been pretty quiet, if not outright buried since I dunno, April, May of 2019?



So I ask again, what's the big deal when it, could very, very likely mean nothing.
 

Rikarte

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Could very well be that they simply didn't know about Sans. I'm convinced that this Mii list was a legit leak, no way anyone would guess Goemon and Rocket Grunt as well as Proto Man and Zero without mentioning the other 2 missing MM costumes.
The way I see it is that either:
-the leaker had real information but included Mallow and Smithy to mess with Geno fans similar to the DMC5 leak
or
-it's real and the costumes are coming along Geno when he's revealed
Considering that it's been a year since this leak happened I'd usually lean towards the former, however, given that 2020 has been all over the place for Nintendo and countless things have been delayed I think there is still a slight chance that the costumes could be coming.

Also no offense but I find the constant "Can we please stop talking about Geno"-comments to be way more annoying than the actual discussions themselves not gonna lie.
I see people say this kind of **** for so many goddamn characters that it's beyond ridiculous at this point, so I ask: Why is it that every time a franchise gets a new game/remake/whatever revealed, everyone starts believing that that series is going to get a character in Smash?
I wrote my opinon about why MH is likely in this post.
 

Evil Trapezium

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So I had a really crazy smash dream. A DLC character was shown off and even in my dream, I couldn't remember what I was looking at. The only few snippets I saw of it, It looked to be a spherical robot named Idon that flies around and shoots characters with it's lasers. When it taunts, in turns into a blob creature with eyes named Byuu that looked like the blob from Putty Squad. I saw Smash Bros x Neon genesis evangeloin. I was desperately trying to figure out what the hell I was looking at so I went on the Smash Bros website to see if I could see a character render and instead of showing the character selection, they were replaced with rows of pictures of Kirby and Adeline so I try to explore them, trying to see who this new character really was but then I just gave up and woke up.
 

Shroob

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Push comes to shove, the 2nd week of October is the absolute latest that I see us getting the character, and historically, the character has always come out before the Posters in Japan expire, so the 2nd week is ABSOLUTE worst case scenario.


....but even then, these next few weeks are going to feel soo long


Especially if this keeps up.
 

Animegamingnerd

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My problem with the glitch theory is that it feels every week there is always a new glitch with a couple characters to the point it feels like at least half of the roster has experienced some kinda glitch that is believed to be as a result of a new character, plus we have no idea which one is just a glitch that means nothing or a glitch is indication of a said character being use in the development of a new one.
 
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The only theory that turned out to be true was the box theory. Correct me if I am wrong.
 

Arcanir

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Well that, as well as the Shiek section, requires a bit of explaination. [IMG alt="Polarthief"]https://smashboards.com/data/avatars/s/409/409586.jpg?1579401784[/IMG] Polarthief you may want to add this context to the list.

During Smash 4, people discovered that Little Mac and Bayonetta were built using Captain Falcon and Zero Suit Samus as a base:
  • Little Mac's ladder animation had him end up transitioning into Captain Falcon's idle pose when he reached the top.
  • Duplicate data for Zero Suit Samus was found long before Bayonetta was added and disappeared upon her inclusion.
  • There's also the oddity of Ridley having unused animations for gliding, which was removed in Smash 4, despite being a brand new fighter. It's believed that this is a leftover from Charizard, who not only also has unused gliding animations left over from when he could glide in Brawl, but has a very similar build to Ridley.
Fast forward some time, and people begin noticing that Mii Swordfighter and Duck Hunt are causing All-Star Smash to get all ****y. It's then hypothesized that that the reason it was only happening after Joker's inclusion was because these two characters were used as the basis for future DLC. Both Hero and Banjo, who were revealed at E3, both had very similar designs to both of these characters:
  • Hero is a swordfighter who uses a lot of projectiles, and Mii Swordfighter has a good number of projectiles.
  • Banjo & Kazooie are two characters who fight as one, with one being a bear and the other a bird. Duck Hunt is a dead ringer for the duo (especially with their 8th alt), to the point of being referenced in Banjo & Kazooie's Classic Mode route.
So going forward, people have begun to keep an eye out for other weird glitches and oddities reagrding characters, as they may be indicative of that character being used as the basis for another future character.

... I know this sounds weird and farfetched, but what are you gonna do, eh?
I'm just going to pick at this point.

Firstly, do we know for certain that Mii Swordfighter and Duck Hunt were absolutely used for Hero and Banjo? It is a good guess to make, but to my knowledge we don't have anything like Piranha Plant or Min Min where we found the leftover data of the characters used to build them (Bowser Jr. and Captain Falcon respectively) in their files. So the assumption that those two glitches characters have to be connected to the newcomers may be based entirely on speculation and not on absolute fact. Adding to this, Captain Falcon at least to my memory had no majorly reported glitches before Min Min's addition, so it's not even a surefire way to guess which character is coming.

On top of that, as said before, there's been a number of glitches in Ultimate that haven't led to anything or at least haven't conclusively been connected to the DLC newcomers. One glitch I can recall is one from 3.0.0 where Samus had a visual glitch involving her Grapple Beam if it was used in the air, none of the FP1 newcomers had Z-airs, especially within the timeframe that the glitch popped up as they would've been working on Hero, Banjo, and Terry at the time based on Sakurai's team working in threes, so it potentially meant nothing and no character came from it.

Ultimately, it's just not a strong means to prove why a character is coming. There's a number of glitches that haven't led to a newcomer, there's no guarantee that a glitch will point to the exact newcomer we think it will, and there's no guarantee that the character being used to build the newcomer will even have a glitch. It's just not a reliable means to guess, and it can easily mean nothing with all the variables in play.
 
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Ganondorf has a glitch with his down b, and Captain Falcon is similar to Ganondorf, so does this mean we are getting a new F-Zero representative?
 

Shroob

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At this point


While I'm really not a Geno fan, I'd still be more than okay with him



Partly because I'd be glad for his fans



And my other, darker, more selfish half so we wouldn't have to fall into situations like this anymore



It ain't Geno's fault, it ain't (most) of his fanbase's fault, but, my god, I know sometimes, we get tired of debating the same characters over and over again, but Geno feels like he transcends boredom into near dislike territory a lot of times.
 

cosmicB

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Sure, that would be a believable enough excuse, but it goes a bit further than that: To this day SquareEnix is the only company in Smash history (including Nintendo themselves) to have their own segregated Mii Costume wave not once, but twice.
So? How does that affect Geno's chances one way or the other?

From what I've heard, that kind of mix-up isn't actually his fault, rather that's actually how the info was revealed to him. All he got were names, and he went ahead and assumed what they were for. Remember when Vergeben was admant on Minecraft content coming to the game? Well as it turned out, the info was misinterpreted. The Ender Dragon was actually Rathalos, whose internal name was "End_Dragon", and the Minecraft Spirit he was told about was actually the pig from Cubivore. Insider information sometimes gets confused and assumptions are made. I agree it sucks, but it's not entirely unique to Mii Costume Guy.
That's actually worse because it implies a greater degree of insider separation than I thought. The further away from the prime source you get, the more insider info becomes a game of deception telephone, which increases the chances of leakbait.


Putting aside my disagreement with the sentiment that Rocket Grunt and Goemon costumes were an easy guess, I don't think we've ever had a Spirit Event that came with new Spirits. It's either been a themed event with existing Spirits or a collection of exclusively new Spirits. Also, I find it very unlikely that Mii Costume Guy's list had entirely Costumes but then also had two names for a Spirit event that simply never materialized despite two of those Spirits already being in the game. I mean, what would be the point of even having a Spirit event where most of the Spirits were old but there's only one new one? That seems like a complete waste of time.
Lotus.

That's the theory, but there's been nothing official said on the matter. They just took it all down for no readily explained reason.
Isn't this false and one of the developers said they were afraid of a takedown while a discord leak or whatever specifically said because someone in it was getting into Ultimate? Because one person is clearly lying in that case, and lying about the former makes no sense because there's nothing stopping someone from revealing they signed an NDA if that indeed happened, leading me to believe the much more likely possibility of the other developer messing with Geno/Waluigi fans.
 

Cutie Gwen

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Imagine if we get another "Sakurai pick" (akin to Joker and Terry) but its Kat from Gravity Rush.
All 12 Gravity Rush fans seen cheering. For real though Kat looked hella fun in PSABR when I last saw her gameplay like 6 years ago and she's a pretty cool character. Certainly wouldn't complain if she made it in
 

XorahnGaia

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Wasn't the thing about Ratholos being called "Ender_dragon" in the game files and Verge mistaking the Cubivore spirit for something from Minecraft just pure speculation to rationalize where the "Minecraft content" claim came for? I do remember Vergeben saying that the Minecraft content was a boss, but I also remember him flout out denying the Cubivore bit.

Not to mention, I think many people here saying that the Minecraft thing was simple misinformation (though I concede that maybe Vergeben was also trying to rationalize this rumor when he as talking about the "Minecraft boss").
 
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I really want Steve, but I don't see him as likely.

He is in competition with Master Chief, he might be pretty expensive to purchase, Sakurai already mentioned it was difficult negotiating with Microsoft, and there are just so many other fighters that I feel like Nintendo and Sakurai would prefer to select.
 
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Evil Trapezium

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I really want Steve, but I don't see him as likely.

He is in competition with Master Chief, he might be pretty expensive to purchase, Sakurai already mentioned it was difficult negotiating with Microsoft, and there are just so many other fighters that I feel like Nintendo and Sakurai would prefer to select.
I thought he said it was easy negotiating with Microsoft, just that the language barrier was an inconvenience.
 

Cap'n Jack

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I really want Steve, but I don't see him as likely.

He is in competition with Master Chief, he might be pretty expensive to purchase, Sakurai already mentioned it was difficult negotiating with Microsoft, and there are just so many other fighters that I feel like Nintendo and Sakurai would prefer to select.
I thought it was said Microsoft was easy to negotiate
 
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I don't want Steve or Master Chief, but I'd much rather have Master Chief. I mean, he's single handedly responsible for keeping the Xbox alive long enough for it to start getting some games onto it. Halo was the first FPS to take the reigns of 'Best Multiplayer Shooter' from Golden Eye (which held on to that title for a LONG time). If anybody from Microsoft deserves (I know, touchy word to use here) to be in, it's Master Chief.

I'm not really a fan of Steve because Steve himself represents nothing; Minecraft is basically just a giant sandbox to create whatever you want; Steve himself doesn't really matter. You could literally just be a floating pickaxe and absolutely nothing in Minecraft changes. Meanwhile, if you were to change Master Chief you lose out on the character himself. The story for Halo was actually pretty fun outside of the multiplayer mode and a lot of people played it repeatedly; Master Chief matters for Halo series. Steve doesn't really matter for his game. I know people will argue this to death, but comparing the two, nobody in the gaming industry itself would classify 'Steve' as a better character than 'Master Chief'.
 

SpectreJordan

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I don't want Steve or Master Chief, but I'd much rather have Master Chief. I mean, he's single handedly responsible for keeping the Xbox alive long enough for it to start getting some games onto it. Halo was the first FPS to take the reigns of 'Best Multiplayer Shooter' from Golden Eye (which held on to that title for a LONG time). If anybody from Microsoft deserves (I know, touchy word to use here) to be in, it's Master Chief.

I'm not really a fan of Steve because Steve himself represents nothing; Minecraft is basically just a giant sandbox to create whatever you want; Steve himself doesn't really matter. You could literally just be a floating pickaxe and absolutely nothing in Minecraft changes. Meanwhile, if you were to change Master Chief you lose out on the character himself. The story for Halo was actually pretty fun outside of the multiplayer mode and a lot of people played it repeatedly; Master Chief matters for Halo series. Steve doesn't really matter for his game. I know people will argue this to death, but comparing the two, nobody in the gaming industry itself would classify 'Steve' as a better character than 'Master Chief'.
You can say the same thing about Villager though & arguably other nameless player characters like Hero. Steve wouldn’t be in Smash to represent Steve, he’d be in to represent Minecraft & all of the amazing memories associated with it.
 
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Smash days of the week:

Smash News When???
Monotone Geno Arguments
Tubular Directs
When is Metroid Prime?
This Character's Chances are 69%.
Fire Emblem Debates
Smash Leak Discussion
 
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You can say the same thing about Villager though & arguably other nameless player characters like Hero. Steve wouldn’t be in Smash to represent Steve, he’d be in to represent Minecraft & all of the amazing memories associated with it.
You can customize your villager though, so at least that sandbox game has the ability to customize your own avatar; not to mention you play in 3rd person so you see your Villager doing all the customizing. The game's characters speak to, and interact with, your Villager as well; speaking directly to them. As for Hero, even though Erdrick is a silent protagonist, the game is still a story that revolves around them (and the rest of the cast) so they feel involved; you see them interacting and speaking with the world around them and said world speaks and interacts with them in return.

As opposed to Steve whom you don't really see since you're mostly playing in a 1st person format and just building or digging. Nothing in Minecraft (aside from Creeper that just follows and explodes) interacts with Steve or communicates with him in the slightest. If it wasn't for Creeper, there'd be nothing in Minecraft that even acknowledges the fact that you have a character to begin with.
 
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CapitaineCrash

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Could very well be that they simply didn't know about Sans. I'm convinced that this Mii list was a legit leak, no way anyone would guess Goemon and Rocket Grunt as well as Proto Man and Zero without mentioning the other 2 missing MM costumes.
The way I see it is that either:
-the leaker had real information but included Mallow and Smithy to mess with Geno fans similar to the DMC5 leak
or
-it's real and the costumes are coming along Geno when he's revealed
Considering that it's been a year since this leak happened I'd usually lean towards the former, however, given that 2020 has been all over the place for Nintendo and countless things have been delayed I think there is still a slight chance that the costumes could be coming.
The others costumes where released in September 2019. Everything that happenned in 2020 have no effect on the fact that Mallow and Smithy are not there, so the leak is fake.


Imagine if we get another "Sakurai pick" (akin to Joker and Terry) but its Kat from Gravity Rush.
How is she a Sakurai pick? I don't recall Sakurai talking about Gravity rush.
 

SNEKeater

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Ehhh...


They 'were' pointing to Dante, then the big DMC news was just that the Port of 3 had that massive update
Not really, that was people acting stupid more than anything. The DMC date was always meant for DMC3 Switch updates, they said so from the beginning. People thinking it meant Smash proves how some folks really think everything is tied to Smash. Or just people who don't know how to read lol

That's partly why I'm pushing Lyn so hard as she could be the perfect Vergil surrogate, especially if they use her for a Dante trailer in the future.

There's just so many ways you could really do an iaido characters that it's a wonder we haven't gotten one yet.
Stance attacks, hold attacks, form-changes, shadow-copies, wind-cutting, even the classic visual flair of a slash not registering until the swordsman puts the sword back in the sheath. it's all so very cool, but completely absent in Smash.

Until then, we have ****-posts.


Anyway, I think it goes without saying how much I like Vergil.
Yeah, I don't know why we don't have something like this in Smash.

I guess he's not that similar in concept to Vergil, but Johnny would be cool as ****.






If you guys want some new characters to talk about, I'm willing to give it a try... though I think the reason these attempts at bringing up new characters for discussion usually fall flat is because... well, not everyone plays and is interested in the same games, so naturally not everyone is interested in discussing a character from a game they haven't played. Again, I'll give it a try, but I'm not expecting it to go anywhere...
I mean, this is normal. Not everyone has played Super Mario RPG either. I didn't, for example, and while I probably will at some point, I'm not in a hurry to do it, to be honest.
That doesn't mean I can't participate in a Geno discussion or bring my opinion about him, even if it's probably not the best opinion in the world.

What it takes is just people being cool and willing to discuss something different or a character they don't really know that much. Even if you haven't played the game, nowadays you can access all the info you want, so there's really no excuses. Someone can watch let's plays, read the Wikipedia or listen to music in order to learn more about a certain series. Obviously this isn't a requirement for each character the thread discusses, but it just takes that.

Obviously someone selling you a character or a series always helps, and I think one of the best things to do that is to post images, illustrations or music of said characters/series. That's an easy and fast way to make people curious about the thing you're talking about. At least, that's how I jumped on certain franchises.
For example, I knew of Falcom for a long time, but never played any of their games. Thanks to some people bringing up from time to time some Falcom characters in this thread, I started to feel curiosity, and one day someone posted some songs from Trails in the Sky while doing that game of "post 10 songs you would like to come with your most wanted" or something like that. I listened some of the themes and that's when I decided to try the games.

Imagine if we get another "Sakurai pick" (akin to Joker and Terry) but its Kat from Gravity Rush.
I'd love to see Kat in anything. She's great. But no way she would get in before other Sony characters, and that's assuming a Sony character would be a likely option at all...
 
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SpectreJordan

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You can customize your villager though, so at least that sandbox game has the ability to customize your own avatar; not to mention you play in 3rd person so you see your Villager doing all the customizing. The game's characters speak to, and interact with, your Villager as well; speaking directly to them. As for Hero, even though Erdrick is a silent protagonist, the game is still a story that revolves around them (and the rest of the cast) so they feel involved; you see them interacting and speaking with the world around them and said world speaks and interacts with them in return.

As opposed to Steve whom you don't really see since you're mostly playing in a 1st person format and just building or digging. Nothing in Minecraft (aside from Creeper that just follows and explodes) interacts with Steve or communicates with him in the slightest. If it wasn't for Creeper, there'd be nothing in Minecraft that even acknowledges the fact that you have a character to begin with.
There’s way more enemies in Minecraft than just the Creeper. There’s also friendly AI through the animals & villagers, that you can trade with.

Minecraft is also a multiplayer focused game. The majority of players spend their time with other “Steves” around them even if they don’t use the default Steve costume.
 

SKX31

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You can customize your villager though, so at least that sandbox game has the ability to customize your own avatar; not to mention you play in 3rd person so you see your Villager doing all the customizing. The game's characters speak to, and interact with, your Villager as well; speaking directly to them. As for Hero, even though Erdrick is a silent protagonist, the game is still a story that revolves around them (and the rest of the cast) so they feel involved; you see them interacting and speaking with the world around them and said world speaks and interacts with them in return.

As opposed to Steve whom you don't really see since you're mostly playing in a 1st person format and just building or digging. Nothing in Minecraft (aside from Creeper that just follows and explodes) interacts with Steve or communicates with him in the slightest. If it wasn't for Creeper, there'd be nothing in Minecraft that even acknowledges the fact that you have a character to begin with.
And that's where skins and further customization within Minecraft comes into play. Nintendo even highlighted this:

Wahcraft.png


0:38 in this trailer:


The game's become one of the most modded games out there because Minecraft puts a massive emphasis on the sandbox aspect, whether single / multiplayer. It's also a major reason why Minecraft has the staying power it has - mods have been released for the game since at least 2011, to the point where CursedForge featured over 50 000 mods by February 2020. And CursedForge is not the only Minecraft mod site.
 

Cutie Gwen

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Every time I see Gravity Rush mentioned for Smash I misread it it as Gravity Falls and then find myself thinking: "Hmm, well I guess Dipper & Mabel could work as a duo fighter."
People kept making Bill Cipher a white anime twink when his humansona was a dark-skinned anime girl instead. Damn
Obviously someone selling you a character or a series always helps, and I think one of the best things to do that is to post images, illustrations or music of said characters/series.
An issue is that a surprising amount of people think that's asking too much despite how easy it is to do so, which is a shame because hey, you might end up finding a new favourite game along the line if you're open to suggestions
 

AmphabulouSnake

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As expected, looks like we aren’t getting anything this week (unless the announcement is this Friday but I doubt it given the Zelda Warriors news on Saturday)
Next week sounds like a deal tho
 

LiveStudioAudience

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As expected, looks like we aren’t getting anything this week (unless the announcement is this Friday but I doubt it given the Zelda Warriors news on Saturday)
Next week sounds like a deal tho
In fairness, both yesterday and today are Japanese holidays. If we don't get anything prominent by the end of tomorrow I'd say you're right though.
 
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