Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[prowler12]

To that question, yes, he'd leave him out. No real reason to have him as he'd be off to the side anyway.

i think bd would be there because Sakurai pays attention to details

 

[blazefan519]

Hello just thought I'd join this discussion since I'm new to Smash Boards. The characters that I want to see the most are Captain Toad and Bandana Dee

 

[NoOtherPersona]

Most wanted newcomers are
Isaac(I'll cry if he doesn't show lol)
Ashley(She's the best witch)
King K(If you don't put him in everyone will be sad)
Lip(please)
Travis Touchdown(he's really cool)
Shantae(please)

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Vergeben is back

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/76848606

He doubled on Simon now and now he figured out one of theme

Spoiler: The character

Isabella is promoted to playable

 

[Marcello691]

Vergeben is back

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/76848606

He doubled on Simon now and now he figured out one of theme

Spoiler: The character

Isabella is promoted to playable

I think that this character is unnecessary, I know that's a big franchise but one that is better represented by stages, music, assist trophies and items.

 

[Opossum]

I think that this character is unnecessary, I know that's a big franchise but one that is better represented by stages, music, assist trophies and items.

I fail to see how. It's a character-driven franchise with many popular characters. Being stuck with just one in Smash would have been awful, and I don't even enjoy playing Animal Crossing.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Vergeben is back

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/76848606

He doubled on Simon now and now he figured out one of theme

Spoiler: The character

Isabella is promoted to playable

I’m very glad, a deserving character. I just hope we don’t end up getting an Echo like some people have suggested.

 

[Ze Diglett]

Vergeben is back

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/76848606

He doubled on Simon now and now he figured out one of theme

Spoiler: The character

Isabella is promoted to playable

...aaand I'm disappointed.
Here's hoping Vergeben is just pulling things out of his ass at this point and doesn't actually have any insider information beyond E3...

 

[Opossum]

...aaand I'm disappointed.
Here's hoping Vergeben is just pulling things out of his *** at this point and doesn't actually have any insider information beyond E3...

A well-loved, popular, marketable, and iconic character getting in is disappointing?

 

[Ze Diglett]

A well-loved, popular, marketable, and iconic character getting in is disappointing?

I just don't get the hype about her and her series, personally. That, and I really don't see how Sakurai would make her work as a unique fighter, although saying that is a cardinal sin for any character these days. Good movesets > good characters, IMO.

 

[Idon]

I just don't get the hype about her and her series, personally. That, and I really don't see how Sakurai would make her work as a unique fighter, although saying that is a cardinal sin for any character these days. Good movesets > good characters, IMO.

The hype is that it's a pleasant game that a lot of people enjoy and Isabelle is a premier character that every fan that has played the most recent game will have had to interact with. While, I personally don't get much mileage out of those games, clearly the amount of sales proves it's a game well-loved by a large fanbase.

The game's had a pretty long history, so there are more probably mechanics and ideas the Smash team could implement.

 

[Marcello691]

I fail to see how. It's a character-driven franchise with many popular characters. Being stuck with just one in Smash would have been awful, and I don't even enjoy playing Animal Crossing.

Ok so, what would she do in smash? Personally I don't like animal crossing, it's a very boring game but I have to admit that I love the designs of the characters. Is she really that important in the game? I mean it's like in Zelda where you have lots of different npc characters in each game, some of them are popular too but do they really "deserve" being in smash? I compare her to Tingle from Legend of zelda. Animal crossing new leaf was such a commercial success so why didn't Sakurai put her in smash 4 already?
To me it feels like they are desperately trying to find characters that aren't from a certain iconic series with apes and crocodiles.
I know people will hate me for saying this, but the only characters missing in smash are Dixie Kong and King K.rool.
Waluigi is not a main character and was only created to fill in a slot in mario tennis as wario's partner. There's a reason why he hasn't appeared in any wario ware or wario land games. Even when I was a child and playing smash 64, I understood which characters are spin off characters and because of that not eligible for smash.
Any other character such as ashley, isabelle, geno, elma and whatever characters people think will be in the new smash are just bonus characters for people who want them to get excited about the game, but they aren't necessary because most of them aren't even that important for their series.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Ok so, what would she do in smash? Personally I don't like animal crossing, it's a very boring game but I have to admit that I love the designs of the characters. Is she really that important in the game? I mean it's like in Zelda where you have lots of different npc characters in each game, some of them are popular too but do they really "deserve" being in smash? I compare her to Tingle from Legend of zelda. Animal crossing new leaf was such a commercial success so why didn't Sakurai put her in smash 4 already?
To me it feels like they are desperately trying to find characters that aren't from a certain iconic series with apes and crocodiles.
I know people will hate me for saying this, but the only characters missing in smash are Dixie Kong and King K.rool.
Waluigi is not a main character and was only created to fill in a slot in mario tennis as wario's partner. There's a reason why he hasn't appeared in any wario ware or wario land games. Even when I was a child and playing smash 64, I understood which characters are spin off characters and because of that not eligible for smash.
Any other character such as ashley, isabelle, geno, elma and whatever characters people think will be in the new smash are just bonus characters for people who want them to get excited about the game, but they aren't necessary because most of them aren't even that important for their series.

There are only two characters missing from Smash Bros.? Any other character isn’t even that important to their series?

Please explain how K. Rool, a character the DK series left behind, is still important to the series.

Please explain how Isabelle, a character so popular Nintendo uses her for advertising outside of the series, is not important to the series.

Please explain how Tingle apparently isn’t important when he’s one of the few recurring characters in the series and even got two spin-offs to himself.

Please explain how apparently the only characters that can get in now are from already represented series.

Jesus Christ, the **** people say sometimes.

 

[Opossum]

Ok so, what would she do in smash? Personally I don't like animal crossing, it's a very boring game but I have to admit that I love the designs of the characters. Is she really that important in the game? I mean it's like in Zelda where you have lots of different npc characters in each game, some of them are popular too but do they really "deserve" being in smash? I compare her to Tingle from Legend of zelda. Animal crossing new leaf was such a commercial success so why didn't Sakurai put her in smash 4 already?
To me it feels like they are desperately trying to find characters that aren't from a certain iconic series with apes and crocodiles.
I know people will hate me for saying this, but the only characters missing in smash are Dixie Kong and King K.rool.
Waluigi is not a main character and was only created to fill in a slot in mario tennis as wario's partner. There's a reason why he hasn't appeared in any wario ware or wario land games. Even when I was a child and playing smash 64, I understood which characters are spin off characters and because of that not eligible for smash.
Any other character such as ashley, isabelle, geno, elma and whatever characters people think will be in the new smash are just bonus characters for people who want them to get excited about the game, but they aren't necessary because most of them aren't even that important for their series.

I'll preface by saying I don't even enjoy Animal Crossing. It made me find out that I didn't enjoy life sims for the price of forty dollars.

That being said, she is incredibly important. Ever since her debut in New Leaf she's become the mascot of the franchise. She wasn't put in 4 because 1) Villager had yet to be added, and 2)Isabelle made her debut after the project plan was finalized, so he made her an Assist instead.

She is important enough to Animal Crossing that if they hypothetically needed to cut either her or Villager after she got in, Villager would be cut. She's that big. Not just anyone can join Mario in a Nintendo-made Mario Kart, after all.

Also this is an aside but Elma is the main character of her game, so how is she unimportant, never mind Isabelle?

Anywho, have an Isabelle moveset.

Spoiler

Isabelle Rings In!​

Normal Attacks:

Jab: A bee flies in front of Isabelle, so she shuts her eyes and swings her clipboard in front of her to shoo it away, swinging it back and forth with each button press.

Dash Attack: While running, Isabelle notices a swarm of bees behind her, so she hits the deck as the swarm rushes into the opponent, missing her.

Side Tilt: Isabelle tries to catch an unseen bug in her net and swings it forward in a side-to-side motion. A two strike move.

Up Tilt: Isabelle celebrates being in Smash by pulling out a Party Popper and pointing it skyward, unleashing an explosion of confetti in a quick motion.

Down Tilt: A Ring Toss furniture piece appears before Isabelle, slightly in front of her, and she tries to toss a ring onto it. The opponent keeps getting in the way, though.


Aerial Attacks:

Neutral Air: Isabelle takes out her fishing rod and makes a circular ribbon-twirler motion around her with its line.

Forward Air: Isabelle pulls out a giant foam finger and does a scooping motion, of sorts. She just wanted to cheer, but then the foe got in the way.

Back Air: Allergy season sucks. Isabelle sneezes, shooting her backwards and making her slam into the opponent. This can also work as a last ditch recovery effort, similar to Corrin's back air, but in the opposite direction.

Up Air: Isabelle, enjoying the breeze, pulls out a pinwheel and holds it above her. Its edges are sharp and rapidly hit the foe for damage.

Down Air: Isabelle, being a klutz, drops a bag of bells from her pocket. They hurdle down toward the ground and hit the opponent with a resounding thunk.


Smash Attacks:

Forward Smash: Isabelle knocks over a stack of paperwork about 1.5 times her own height, sending it cascading forward as any foe caught in the move gets launched. This is Isabelle's best kill move...just don't tell her that.

Up Smash: Isabelle adores seashells. In this move, she'll play with the shell the mayor gave her, tossing it up in the air and catching it as it descends. While it's airborne, however, it will spin rapidly, causing major damage to those hit by it.

Down Smash: Isabelle poses in celebration as an archway appears over her, quickly falling from the sky. However, if the opponent was on either side of her when the archway was made...well, they're underneath it now. As they get blasted away, Isabelle, horrified, quickly removes the archway, turning it into a leaf.


Grab, Pummel, and Throws:

Grab and Pummel: Isabelle casts her line and snags the foe with her rod, entangling them. Each pummel has her pull on the rod in an attempt to free the line from them, though this ends up being her pummel.

Forward Throw: Isabelle turns on a giant fan that blasts foes away.

Back Throw: Isabelle tries to unhook the foe but ends up tossing them backward as she looks on in horror.

Up Throw: A geyser bursts out beneath the opponent, blasting them upward.

Down Throw: A flowerpot falls from the sky and smashes into the foe, knocking them toward the stage and sending them upward. Isabelle's gonna have to have a talk with the upstairs tenants.


Special Attacks:

Neutral Special: New Leaf - Isabelle tosses a leaf in front of her, skyward. It slowly descends toward the stage. Pressing the button again as it's either on the stage or in the air will transform it into a piece of furniture: either a small one that can be thrown, or a large one that either crushes a foe beneath it as it falls, or can be used as a stage obstacle for the opponent to have to work around. One light and one heavy object can be on the stage at once per Isabelle.

Side Special: Public Works Projects - Like Shulk's Monado Arts, these can be cycled by pressing the button. A set of four symbols appear above Isabelle as they cycle: a water droplet, a flame, an hourglass, and a bell. Selecting one brings a Gyroid onto the stage, which must be protected at all costs, as it has a health bar. If the Gyroid takes too much damage, it will disappear. After it has been guarded enough, it will transform into a permanent object on the stage. Here are the options and their effects.

— Selecting the water droplet creates a small fountain on the stage. The water effect can interrupt foes attempting to approach Isabelle from the air, due to its windbox effect.
— Selecting the flame creates a campfire. Opponents that touch this will get burned, and all explosives that touch it will instantly explode. Additionally, any projectile, either from Isabelle or from her opponent, that passes through the flames will become imbued with the fire effect, doing slightly more damage and automatically setting off explosives.
— Selecting the hourglass creates a small clockpost on the stage. This doesn't reach the foreground and doesn't impact the fight directly, but it does decrease the amount of time needed to defend a Gyroid before a Public Works Project is created.
— Selecting the bell creates a small bell on the stage that Isabelle can ring by going near it (it will automatically activate when she goes near it). This is a sound based attack that damages opponents, buying Isabelle more time.

Only two Public Works Projects can be on the stage at a time per Isabelle. These structures are semi-permanent. They will stay on the stage unless:
— The stage moves in a way that leaves the structures behind, like a touring stage, or
— Isabelle presses and holds her Side Special while next to a structure, instantly dismantling it.

Plan your "town" wisely and use each project to your advantage.

Up Special: Present Balloon - Isabelle holds onto a present balloon and flies upwards. Unlike Villager, she doesn't have free flight during this, making it a much more linear recovery.

Down Special: Beautiful Town Ordinance - Isabelle plants a sign post into the ground as a fenced off area appears on the stage around her. After five seconds (this can be reduced to three with the clock tower public works project), a small garden appears. Standing in the garden allows Isabelle to slowly heal a bit of health back, but she cannot attack while standing in the garden, making her a sitting duck. But by planning out her PWPs and furniture properly, perhaps she can preoccupy the foe long enough to heal a significant chunk of damage. Unlike her Side Special, this garden is not semi-permanent. If a foe attacks the flower bed enough, it will wither away and disappear. Striking it with a fire move will erase it almost instantly. You can only place one flower bed on the stage at a time.

Final Smash: Bell Boom Ordinance

Isabelle enacts the Wealthy Town, or Bell Boom, Ordinance. In this move, heavy bags of bells rain from the sky before bursting on impact on the stage. This causes massive damage both to the foe and to the economy.


Playstyle Notes:

Isabelle is a very defensive-oriented character. From a cosmetic standpoint, none of her moves are intended to bring harm to the opponent, but the circumstances surrounding the fight make her accidentally bring harm to them.

Where Isabelle truly shines is her set of specials, as they dictate her playstyle: she is a cute and clumsy terraformer, being able to alter the stage to her heart's content. This showcases a key aspect of the Animal Crossing series, which is town planning and interior decorating. Isabelle, being the assistant mayor, oversees a lot of the day to day town planning, and as such she is the perfect character for something like this.

 

[cybersai]

What's weird is both Captain Toad and soon Wario Ware Gold are out soon, and nothing relating to their characters are in Smash. I suppose Ashley could be revealed later, but if her character is in development surely they'd have something to show around Wario Ware Gold's launch.

I'm also wondering what's going on with Dixie or K. Rool. I certainly expect at least one of them, but it's getting troubling to know Donkey Kong doesn't seen to have much support in credible rumors. Sure you see all those fake lists with K. Rool on them but it's not the same.

Others like Isabelle, Geno, Elma, a new Pokemon, etc. could all either happen or not, there's just not much indication outside this new Isabelle rumor.

 

[Marcello691]

I'll preface by saying I don't even enjoy Animal Crossing. It made me find out that I didn't enjoy life sims for the price of forty dollars.

That being said, she is incredibly important. Ever since her debut in New Leaf she's become the mascot of the franchise. She wasn't put in 4 because 1) Villager had yet to be added, and 2)Isabelle made her debut after the project plan was finalized, so he made her an Assist instead.

She is important enough to Animal Crossing that if they hypothetically needed to cut either her or Villager after she got in, Villager would be cut. She's that big. Not just anyone can join Mario in a Nintendo-made Mario Kart, after all.

Also this is an aside but Elma is the main character of her game, so how is she unimportant, never mind Isabelle?

Anywho, have an Isabelle moveset.

Spoiler

Isabelle Rings In!​

Normal Attacks:

Jab: A bee flies in front of Isabelle, so she shuts her eyes and swings her clipboard in front of her to shoo it away, swinging it back and forth with each button press.

Dash Attack: While running, Isabelle notices a swarm of bees behind her, so she hits the deck as the swarm rushes into the opponent, missing her.

Side Tilt: Isabelle tries to catch an unseen bug in her net and swings it forward in a side-to-side motion. A two strike move.

Up Tilt: Isabelle celebrates being in Smash by pulling out a Party Popper and pointing it skyward, unleashing an explosion of confetti in a quick motion.

Down Tilt: A Ring Toss furniture piece appears before Isabelle, slightly in front of her, and she tries to toss a ring onto it. The opponent keeps getting in the way, though.


Aerial Attacks:

Neutral Air: Isabelle takes out her fishing rod and makes a circular ribbon-twirler motion around her with its line.

Forward Air: Isabelle pulls out a giant foam finger and does a scooping motion, of sorts. She just wanted to cheer, but then the foe got in the way.

Back Air: Allergy season sucks. Isabelle sneezes, shooting her backwards and making her slam into the opponent. This can also work as a last ditch recovery effort, similar to Corrin's back air, but in the opposite direction.

Up Air: Isabelle, enjoying the breeze, pulls out a pinwheel and holds it above her. Its edges are sharp and rapidly hit the foe for damage.

Down Air: Isabelle, being a klutz, drops a bag of bells from her pocket. They hurdle down toward the ground and hit the opponent with a resounding thunk.


Smash Attacks:

Forward Smash: Isabelle knocks over a stack of paperwork about 1.5 times her own height, sending it cascading forward as any foe caught in the move gets launched. This is Isabelle's best kill move...just don't tell her that.

Up Smash: Isabelle adores seashells. In this move, she'll play with the shell the mayor gave her, tossing it up in the air and catching it as it descends. While it's airborne, however, it will spin rapidly, causing major damage to those hit by it.

Down Smash: Isabelle poses in celebration as an archway appears over her, quickly falling from the sky. However, if the opponent was on either side of her when the archway was made...well, they're underneath it now. As they get blasted away, Isabelle, horrified, quickly removes the archway, turning it into a leaf.


Grab, Pummel, and Throws:

Grab and Pummel: Isabelle casts her line and snags the foe with her rod, entangling them. Each pummel has her pull on the rod in an attempt to free the line from them, though this ends up being her pummel.

Forward Throw: Isabelle turns on a giant fan that blasts foes away.

Back Throw: Isabelle tries to unhook the foe but ends up tossing them backward as she looks on in horror.

Up Throw: A geyser bursts out beneath the opponent, blasting them upward.

Down Throw: A flowerpot falls from the sky and smashes into the foe, knocking them toward the stage and sending them upward. Isabelle's gonna have to have a talk with the upstairs tenants.


Special Attacks:

Neutral Special: New Leaf - Isabelle tosses a leaf in front of her, skyward. It slowly descends toward the stage. Pressing the button again as it's either on the stage or in the air will transform it into a piece of furniture: either a small one that can be thrown, or a large one that either crushes a foe beneath it as it falls, or can be used as a stage obstacle for the opponent to have to work around. One light and one heavy object can be on the stage at once per Isabelle.

Side Special: Public Works Projects - Like Shulk's Monado Arts, these can be cycled by pressing the button. A set of four symbols appear above Isabelle as they cycle: a water droplet, a flame, an hourglass, and a bell. Selecting one brings a Gyroid onto the stage, which must be protected at all costs, as it has a health bar. If the Gyroid takes too much damage, it will disappear. After it has been guarded enough, it will transform into a permanent object on the stage. Here are the options and their effects.

— Selecting the water droplet creates a small fountain on the stage. The water effect can interrupt foes attempting to approach Isabelle from the air, due to its windbox effect.
— Selecting the flame creates a campfire. Opponents that touch this will get burned, and all explosives that touch it will instantly explode. Additionally, any projectile, either from Isabelle or from her opponent, that passes through the flames will become imbued with the fire effect, doing slightly more damage and automatically setting off explosives.
— Selecting the hourglass creates a small clockpost on the stage. This doesn't reach the foreground and doesn't impact the fight directly, but it does decrease the amount of time needed to defend a Gyroid before a Public Works Project is created.
— Selecting the bell creates a small bell on the stage that Isabelle can ring by going near it (it will automatically activate when she goes near it). This is a sound based attack that damages opponents, buying Isabelle more time.

Only two Public Works Projects can be on the stage at a time per Isabelle. These structures are semi-permanent. They will stay on the stage unless:
— The stage moves in a way that leaves the structures behind, like a touring stage, or
— Isabelle presses and holds her Side Special while next to a structure, instantly dismantling it.

Plan your "town" wisely and use each project to your advantage.

Up Special: Present Balloon - Isabelle holds onto a present balloon and flies upwards. Unlike Villager, she doesn't have free flight during this, making it a much more linear recovery.

Down Special: Beautiful Town Ordinance - Isabelle plants a sign post into the ground as a fenced off area appears on the stage around her. After five seconds (this can be reduced to three with the clock tower public works project), a small garden appears. Standing in the garden allows Isabelle to slowly heal a bit of health back, but she cannot attack while standing in the garden, making her a sitting duck. But by planning out her PWPs and furniture properly, perhaps she can preoccupy the foe long enough to heal a significant chunk of damage. Unlike her Side Special, this garden is not semi-permanent. If a foe attacks the flower bed enough, it will wither away and disappear. Striking it with a fire move will erase it almost instantly. You can only place one flower bed on the stage at a time.

Final Smash: Bell Boom Ordinance

Isabelle enacts the Wealthy Town, or Bell Boom, Ordinance. In this move, heavy bags of bells rain from the sky before bursting on impact on the stage. This causes massive damage both to the foe and to the economy.


Playstyle Notes:

Isabelle is a very defensive-oriented character. From a cosmetic standpoint, none of her moves are intended to bring harm to the opponent, but the circumstances surrounding the fight make her accidentally bring harm to them.

Where Isabelle truly shines is her set of specials, as they dictate her playstyle: she is a cute and clumsy terraformer, being able to alter the stage to her heart's content. This showcases a key aspect of the Animal Crossing series, which is town planning and interior decorating. Isabelle, being the assistant mayor, oversees a lot of the day to day town planning, and as such she is the perfect character for something like this.

Mario kart is a spin off game, so every character can be included in that game, even Funky Kong, who was a side character in the dkc games was playable in mario kart wii.
Isabelle is very popular, it's not uncommon for Nintendo to use popular characters to advertise something.
I don't know how much exactly animal crossing new leaf has sold but I think it was something over 10mio, isn't that enough of a reason to provide the time and resources to put two characters into smash from that series?
And I'm really sorry for not expressing myself correctly, I know she would work as playable character in smash, Sakurai could possibly find a moveset for everyone. I don't know if I would call her the mascot of the franchise though.

but they aren't necessary because most of them aren't even that important for their series.

Regarding Elma, I said "most of them". Isn't her game spin off? Also it wasn't a commercial success.

There are only two characters missing from Smash Bros.? Any other character isn’t even that important to their series?

Please explain how K. Rool, a character the DK series left behind, is still important to the series.

Please explain how Isabelle, a character so popular Nintendo uses her for advertising outside of the series, is not important to the series.

Please explain how Tingle apparently isn’t important when he’s one of the few recurring characters in the series and even got two spin-offs to himself.

Please explain how apparently the only characters that can get in now are from already represented series.

Jesus Christ, the **** people say sometimes.

Regarding the dkc series, it's really complicated. At the time melee came out, the dk series was very huge in terms of sales and popular, so dixie, diddy and k.rool should have been in that game already, but dkc was developed by rare, a British studio, apparently nintendo and Sakurai do not like them because they aren't created by japanese, that's why it took so long until we got a proper dkc game (dkc returns in 2010, dk64 came out in 1999) and in dkc returns they didn't bring back the kremlins and k.rool because of aforementioned reason. But Nintendo finally realized how popular the croc is (there were even streets named after k.rool, Dixie and co. in super mario Odyssey). All the iconic dk games were made by rare and now Nintendo has to develop them, so it's clear they don't understand the franchise.


Tingle is a joke character, to call him important is just....and yes he got spin off games, that doesn't mean he is as important as main characters from other series.

As for k.rool and dixie, this is only my opinion, I think the smash roster is big enough and so there is no need for overexpanding the roster with "filler" characters.
The DK series is underrepresented, that's a fact, even series like mother or f-zero, which are practically dead (which is really sad btw) are better represented. They have assist trophies, items, stages based on actual places from their games and a good selection of music. That's not the case with dk.

 

[Opossum]

Mario kart is a spin off game, so every character can be included in that game, even Funky Kong, who was a side character in the dkc games was playable in mario kart wii.
Isabelle is very popular, it's not uncommon for Nintendo to use popular characters to advertise something.
I don't know how much exactly animal crossing new leaf has sold but I think it was something over 10mio, isn't that enough of a reason to provide the time and resources to put two characters into smash from that series?
And I'm really sorry for not expressing myself correctly, I know she would work as playable character in smash, Sakurai could possibly find a moveset for everyone. I don't know if I would call her the mascot of the franchise though.

Regarding Elma, I said "most of them". Isn't her game spin off? Also it wasn't a commercial success.






Regarding the dkc series, it's really complicated. At the time melee came out, the dk series was very huge in terms of sales and popular, so dixie, diddy and k.rool should have been in that game already, but dkc was developed by rare, a British studio, apparently nintendo and Sakurai do not like them because they aren't created by japanese, that's why it took so long until we got a proper dkc game (dkc returns in 2010, dk64 came out in 1999) and in dkc returns they didn't bring back the kremlins and k.rool because of aforementioned reason. But Nintendo finally realized how popular the croc is (there were even streets named after k.rool, Dixie and co. in super mario Odyssey). All the iconic dk games were made by rare and now Nintendo has to develop them, so it's clear they don't understand the franchise.


Tingle is a joke character, to call him important is just....and yes he got spin off games, that doesn't mean he is as important as main characters from other series.

As for k.rool and dixie, this is only my opinion, I think the smash roster is big enough and so there is no need for overexpanding the roster with "filler" characters.
The DK series is underrepresented, that's a fact, even series like mother or f-zero, which are practically dead (which is really sad btw) are better represented. They have assist trophies, items, stages based on actual places from their games and a good selection of music. That's not the case with dk.

For Mario characters, sure. But when looking at Mario Kart characters from outside of the greater Mario universe (and not including the arcade ones since Bandai-Namco made them, explaining why their characters are in), very few have ever gotten into the game. R.O.B. was in Mario Kart DS, and for a long while he was the only guest.

But then 8 came out, and four guests were added: Link, Inkling (in Deluxe), Villager...and Isabelle. She was deemed important enough to be alongside the likes of Link and the Inklings, which I think says a lot. I'd also definitely call her the mascot at this point. She's front and center in the marketing for the series, to the point where the official Animal Crossing Twitter account is themed around her, acting as "Isabelle's Twitter account."

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

For Mario characters, sure. But when looking at Mario Kart characters from outside of the greater Mario universe (and not including the arcade ones since Bandai-Namco made them, explaining why their characters are in), very few have ever gotten into the game. R.O.B. was in Mario Kart DS, and for a long while he was the only guest.

But then 8 came out, and four guests were added: Link, Inkling (in Deluxe), Villager...and Isabelle. She was deemed important enough to be alongside the likes of Link and the Inklings, which I think says a lot. I'd also definitely call her the mascot at this point. She's front and center in the marketing for the series, to the point where the official Animal Crossing Twitter account is themed around her, acting as "Isabelle's Twitter account."

Lol just go to the Animal Crossing official website, first thing your greeted with is a big picture Isabelle on your screen. Then if you scroll down you keep on seeing Isabelle reappear throughout the home page. If that doesn’t say mascot idk what does.

 

[Marcello691]

Hmm...I think someone like k.k. slider has more personality and appeared in more games in the series.
Are there new characters for every new animal crossing game or are there also recurring characters?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Isabelle has become the mascot of the series, easily.

Though honestly, Villager would still be the playable character in Smash since he represents the series better due to having a moveset that focuses on how the games play. Isabelle definitely should be present(even if not playable, being an AT and Stage Element is essential) because she's absolutely important to the series. Her popularity and mascot status is what got her in Mario Kart, not unlike other characters.

I'm not even a fan of her being playable myself, but there's no denying how big a character she is regardless.

 

[Hydrualic Hydra]

I'm pretty new here, so it's best I just lay out all my opinions up front.

As long as the character is a videogame character in origin, or heavily related to gaming (ex. R.O.B.), I generally do not mind a character's inclusion, unless they are nauseatingly generic (a literal Goomba), insanely obscure (I-Ninja for Smash would be dope though), or come from an MMO or MOBA (they just don't 'feel' right).

Outwardly hating a character because "I'd rather have someone else and this character doesn't deserve it" is a crummy opinion. You can just be indifferent, you don't have to despise someone getting in Smash if you didn't want them, and it demeans the people who want that character.

With that out of the way, my most wanted (in no particular order) are Amaterasu, Travis Touchdown, King K. Rool, Bandana Dee, and Hades (though he would honestly work better as a boss, he's legit too big).

As far as realistic choices for the roster, I believe the characters with the best chances as unique newcomers are Dixie Kong, King K. Rool, Ashley, Bandana Dee, a Gen 7 Pokemon, Elma, Mach Rider, Geno, and Simon Belmont. For Echoes I'm feeling Chrom, Isabelle, and Ninten. Most likely not all of these will make it, but I feel they're the characters with the best possible shot, for one reason or another. I can go into detail if so desired.

 

[Glaciacott]

All the Smash Ultimate rumors and fake leaks gave me nostalgia for Smash 4 speculation, so I figured I'd check in again. Hello again! ^^/

Weird that it's been like 4 years since I was here. Now that Ridley's in I'm in a content mood where I'm putting all my hope on K. Rool or Dixie. Roster would be complete by then for me.

Time to speculate again =3

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

General point to make; Isabelle has different proportions from Villager. She cannot be an Echo due to having a different model/skeleton. She can be a clone at best. Or semi-clone. Or entirely unique. For the same reason she could never be an alt of Villager either(not that she would be one anyway).

So any leak calling her an Echo doesn't understand how they work. You can immediately discard that part for being wrong. Her being in in general shouldn't be discarded, obviously, same with her still being an AT. Both are absolutely possible anyway.

 

[Hydrualic Hydra]

Are you going to look me in the eye and say these proportions are so wildly different that her being an echo is out of the realm of possibility? They have identical body types and are so close in exact proportions that it's not even a stretch of the imagination to consider her being slightly altered.
(And for what it's worth, Lucina is actually a mite shorter than Marth, and canonically isn't his height. Echoes are extremely close, but not ALWAYS 1:1 with the original.)

 

[Opossum]

Are you going to look me in the eye and say these proportions are so wildly different that her being an echo is out of the realm of possibility? They have identical body types and are so close in exact proportions that it's not even a stretch of the imagination to consider her being slightly altered.
(And for what it's worth, Lucina is actually a mite shorter than Marth, and canonically isn't his height. Echoes are extremely close, but not ALWAYS 1:1 with the original.)

In the first image, not only is Isabelle contorted slightly, but she's further into the background than Villager is, making it a perspective trick.

In the second image, you're comparing Isabelle to the post-New Leaf Villager, who is much taller than the City Folk version that's in Smash.

 

[Hydrualic Hydra]

...In the first image, that's literally my point. There's a noticeable difference, but it's nowhere near to the point that she can't be changed slightly to fit Villager.

And in the second image, if Villager is taller in New Leaf, then wouldn't Isabelle logically be closer to the City Folk version of him that's in Smash?

Your arguments are entirely rooted in 'her proportions are different, you're wrong and she can't be an echo' when I'm trying to say that they're close enough to the point that she can very easily be stretched to match him without it being noticeable. I can tell she's not 1:1 with him but it's close enough that it'd require minimal changes.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

If her model isn't 1:1, period, she can't be an Echo. That's what exact proportions means. If you're stretching the model, you're requiring a lot more work to make an Echo. Echoes are minimum effort clones.

To make Isabelle work, it requires a bit more effort because she doesn't match Villager's proportions. Think of it like this; by 1:1 we mean that two character would have to be 50/50 size difference if shrunk down from a 100/100 size. You can't have a 50/51 size or anything like that. That's not the same proportions whatsoever. Echoes require the exact same proportions. Unlike clones, who only need similar enough ones where they can be retooled to create a good moveset with some shared animations. Ganondorf is not a 1:1 character, but he works fine as a clone due to having a similar enough model(from a tech demo no less). Unless Isabelle literally has a usable model that has 1:1 proportions with the Villager in Smash at this time, it won't work. And that's assuming Sakurai is willing to use that particular model.

She is far more likely to be a clone, if she's in anyway.

 

[Hydrualic Hydra]

If her model isn't 1:1, period, she can't be an Echo. That's what exact proportions means. If you're stretching the model, you're requiring a lot more work to make an Echo. Echoes are minimum effort clones.

Except Lucina. Literally except Lucina.

Her and Marth aren't 100:100, by your own terms. Lucina is shorter than Marth, they're closer to 100:99. As I said before, being EXTREMELY close is a necessity, but being absolutely identical isn't.

 

[Starbound]

Other than Isabelle's head, what makes the model so different? The head is even pretty similar in terms of size (just add the little bun on top of the model and the ears; they wouldn't even be hitboxs). Daisy (according to the Wiki) and Lucina are both shorter than Peach and Marth, so clearly the models can be altered minorly.

If we're talking about a size difference, it really isn't noticeable enough to worry about imo. She's smaller than Villager in Mario Kart, though I think you guys are saying she's taller (I don't like AC so I don't know for sure).

But like why are we bothering with a size argument here? You guys remember Ridley is here right. Clearly canon size doesn't matter. Isabelle's size is close enough.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Except Lucina. Literally except Lucina.

Her and Marth aren't 100:100, by your own terms. Lucina is shorter than Marth, they're closer to 100:99. As I said before, being EXTREMELY close is a necessity, but being absolutely identical isn't.

Her proportions are the exact same model-wise. She was first a model swap. The changes were made after she was chosen to be an Echo.

I did state this poorly, I admit; when I mean they need to be 1:1, it means their original model needs to start out that way. Tiny modifications can be done, but that's something for later on to make the movesets work. The only reason Lucina is shorter(by not much either, and after she was the same exact size to begin with) is to justify the slight sword differences(hilt VS entire sword).

Isabelle doesn't start with the same proportions and couldn't be an exact model swap, which is how Echoes start being made. Sakurai actually did note he shrunk Lucina later on after she was a costume first. Meaning this hardly is a good rebuttal because she started as 1:1. Again, I absolutely led you on with my poor wording and I apologize for that. But the point stands that being 1:1 is a starting requirement.

 

[Starbound]

Isabelle doesn't start with the same proportions and couldn't be an exact model swap, which is how Echoes start being made. Sakurai actually did note he shrunk Lucina later on after she was a costume first. Meaning this hardly is a good rebuttal because she started as 1:1. Again, I absolutely led you on with my poor wording and I apologize for that. But the point stands that being 1:1 is a starting requirement.

What are the proportion differences?

 

[Louie G.]

I compare her to Tingle from Legend of zelda. Animal crossing new leaf was such a commercial success so why didn't Sakurai put her in smash 4 already?

This made me laugh, how in the world can you compare Isabelle to Tingle? They're both popular NPCs? Except Tingle has never been as prominent of a focus in the Zelda games as Isabelle is in the AC games, and Tingle is also not essentially the face of Zelda. Saying that makes it pretty clear you've either never played Animal Crossing or you've somehow entirely missed how prominent she is in the last few games of the series.

The comparison just threw me for a loop so I wanted to address it.

But like why are we bothering with a size argument here? You guys remember Ridley is here right. Clearly canon size doesn't matter. Isabelle's size is close enough.

That really doesn't have anything to do with this. Nobody is saying Isabelle is too big, but moreso questioning if Isabelle's unique proportions, admittedly not too drastically different though, truly allow her to be an echo fighter. "Ridley is too big to be a Charizard echo" would be more in line with this discussion, which would obviously be dumb but I'm just trying to get a point across.

 

[Hydrualic Hydra]

Isabelle doesn't start with the same proportions and couldn't be an exact model swap, which is how Echoes start being made. Sakurai actually did note he shrunk Lucina later on after she was a costume first. Meaning this hardly is a good rebuttal because she started as 1:1. Again, I absolutely led you on with my poor wording and I apologize for that. But the point stands that being 1:1 is a starting requirement.

That's acting as if Lucina had a pre-existing model that was already 1:1 with Marth. Once again, they're canonically different heights, the creative liberty was taken to make them identical for the sake of development. And Sakurai isn't limited to pulling the AT model to build Isabelle, a new model could very easily be built with proportions identical to Villager.

Every Echo has a different degree of difference/effort put into them. Dark Pit is identical besides a palate swap and a frown that wasn't turned upside-down, and debatably outright lazy, Lucina needed to at least have a model made for her to match Marth but otherwise she copies him practically identically, meanwhile Daisy has a new model, different animations, and different particle effects. Isabelle can easily fall into the Lucina category, they aren't restricted to just grabbing the AT model. A new, but similar one can still be built with Villager's proportions in mind.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

That's acting as if Lucina had a pre-existing model that was already 1:1 with Marth. Once again, they're canonically different heights, the creative liberty was taken to make them identical for the sake of development. And Sakurai isn't limited to pulling the AT model to build Isabelle, a new model could very easily be built with proportions identical to Villager.

She did. She was a costume first. At the time, she was turned into a costume. The difference is that Sakurai had her as a costume for a long time during development(which, gasp, took time). He had to modify an already existing model. Again, not a good example as she was already a preset 1:1 model before being turned playable. Isabelle does not start as a costume, meaning if she's late into development, she won't have a 1:1 model to work off of from the first place. She has to have that already for her to be a low effort clone. All the Echoes are severely low effort. Regular clones absolutely take more work, which is really what Isabelle requires to begin with.

Every Echo has a different degree of difference/effort put into them. Dark Pit is identical besides a palate swap and a frown that wasn't turned upside-down, and debatably outright lazy, Lucina needed to at least have a model made for her to match Marth but otherwise she copies him practically identically, meanwhile Daisy has a new model, different animations, and different particle effects. Isabelle can easily fall into the Lucina category, they aren't restricted to just grabbing the AT model. A new, but similar one can still be built with Villager's proportions in mind.

So requiring way more effort than an Echo? Because that's what it means. If the model doesn't already exist from something previous, it wouldn't work. It's already existing at the time he decides to work on making her an Echo or it doesn't. And so far, looks like it doesn't. Which means her most logical hope is a clone, semi-clone, or unique.

 

[Starbound]

That really doesn't have anything to do with this. Nobody is saying Isabelle is too big, but moreso questioning if Isabelle's unique proportions, admittedly not too drastically different though, truly allow her to be an echo fighter. "Ridley is too big to be a Charizard echo" would be more in line with this discussion, which would obviously be dumb but I'm just trying to get a point across.

I think I may have worded my post improperly.

My Ridley comment was highlighting that canon size has no relevance to Smash. Saying "Isabelle's model would need to be stretched to be an echo" suggests that the tiny difference in size is a significant barrier to her, when in reality, it isn't.

And what am I missing about her 'unique proportions' compared to Villager? I see a bipedal human-like creature with a big head. Sakurai is fine with redoing animations, as we see with Daisy and her use of Toad, so making edits to the model to allow for ears and the bun is really not a big deal.

 

[Hydrualic Hydra]

She did. She was a costume first. At the time, she was turned into a costume. The difference is that Sakurai had her as a costume for a long time during development(which, gasp, took time). He had to modify an already existing model. Again, not a good example as she was already a preset 1:1 model before being turned playable. Isabelle does not start as a costume, meaning if she's late into development, she won't have a 1:1 model to work off of from the first place. She has to have that already for her to be a low effort clone. All the Echoes are severely low effort. Regular clones absolutely take more work, which is really what Isabelle requires to begin with.


So requiring way more effort than an Echo? Because that's what it means. If the model doesn't already exist from something previous, it wouldn't work. It's already existing at the time he decides to work on making her an Echo or it doesn't. And so far, looks like it doesn't. Which means her most logical hope is a clone, semi-clone, or unique.

Once again, you're doing the same thing and acting like no effort was done. Yes, she was originally a costume, and that eased the transition of making her a full character.
But I'm gonna let you in on a little secret.
Development time was still spent making her model when she was a costume.
It didn't just POOF into existence because it was initially a costume, it was still a model they had to build.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Once again, you're doing the same thing and acting like no effort was done. Yes, she was originally a costume, and that eased the transition of making her a full character.
But I'm gonna let you in on a little secret.
Development time was still spent making her model when she was a costume.
It didn't just POOF into existence because it was initially a costume, it was still a model they had to build.

And if she wasn't a costume she wouldn't be an Echo. That's the sole reason she was one. Of course it took time, way before they decided to make her an Echo.

If Isabelle is going to be made playable as an Echo, that means she had the model available right away or had a new model made super early into development but decided wayyyyyy late into development to make her an Echo. But then you realize he has zero reason to give her a new model. She has a perfectly usable model for a clone to begin with. It's a time-waster. This is where your Lucina analogy has a serious hole in it. She was created as an alt costume first, because Sakurai wanted her as one first. Isabelle doesn't have this factor.

 

[Hydrualic Hydra]

Neither does Daisy. But lo-and-behold, a popular, fan-requested character is added to game specifically with the intention of making her identical to an existing character. Whatever angle you look at it from, Echoes have come about in different ways.

Dakr Pit, again, was literally just 'His personality doesn't justify being a costume, give him a frowny face and change the colors, +Echo differences.'
Lucina was changed from a full-on alternate model costume mid-development.
And Daisy was added with the specific intent to be identical to someone already in the game.
Practically any echo added from here on out will also need a new model, aside from MAYBE Chrom if he matches someone well enough.

To say Isabelle can't be an echo just because her model isn't 1:1 with Villager is pretending a new model can't be made for her, and the precedent has obviously been set that Echoes can be built with being an Echo in mind.

 

[IsmaR]

We don't know for certain if all the same criteria for Echo Fighters (being "last minute/low effort" as they were in Melee/Smash 4) will be the same.

I wouldn't be surprised if they put a bit more polish into characters that function similarly, or at least still planned for them early on (Daisy being alongside the initial game reveal instead of being held off for a later announcement makes me think they accounted for which characters would be given the Echo treatment).

If that isn't the case, I wouldn't be upset by any means. I just believe we shouldn't keep narrow minded definitions/say anything "has to be this by definition."

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

We don't know for certain if all the same criteria for Echo Fighters (being "last minute/low effort" as they were in Melee/Smash 4) will be the same.

I wouldn't be surprised if they put a bit more polish into characters that function similarly, or at least still planned for them early on (Daisy being alongside the initial game reveal instead of being held off for a later announcement makes me think they accounted for which characters would be given the Echo treatment).

If that isn't the case, I wouldn't be upset by any means. I just believe we shouldn't keep narrow minded definitions/say anything "has to be this by definition."

1:1 was a definition already set beforehand as true.

Last-minute so far is the most believable way, but there's a better argument against Isabelle being an Echo right now then "they could randomly do this". We got no reason to believe she would get a new model just for that when it would be easier to just make her a regular clone in the long run. Especially when she likely would be made a bit different as an Echo just like Lucina was, to fix her canon size(especially in Smash) more. It sounds like a lot of time wasted over a clone.

But yeah, the point was more that Lucina is a poor example here regardless. As are the rest. None of the Echoes indicate in any way the models were made last second too, but already existed first. Daisy could be the only time where this is true, and we don't even know that. It's kind of baseless to think they're not last minute when every new clone has been so far. It's possible, sure, but so far has no evidence supporting it.