Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Ze Diglett]

It's easy to say a character has no support when you arbitrarily write off their support as illegitimate...

I'd be less keen to ignore these people's "support" for Steve if the same people didn't often follow up their posts with something to the effect of "I don't even care about Steve btw, I just don't agree with your reasoning."
Arguing against detractors of a character =/= genuine support for the character, and in the case of Steve, I find that it rarely does.

 

[Opossum]

I'd be less keen to ignore these people's "support" for Steve if the same people didn't often follow up their posts with something to the effect of "I don't even care about Steve btw, I just don't agree with your reasoning."
Arguing against detractors of a character =/= genuine support for the character, and in the case of Steve, I find that it rarely does.

I don't even really want Steve, but I wouldn't mind him and I think it'd be a good addition overall.

 

[DNeon]

I'd be less keen to ignore these people's "support" for Steve if the same people didn't often follow up their posts with something to the effect of "I don't even care about Steve btw, I just don't agree with your reasoning."
Arguing against detractors of a character =/= genuine support for the character, and in the case of Steve, I find that it rarely does.

Maybe if you're running into people that often who are willing to go out of their way for a character they don't even care for you might want to be a bit introspective about your attitude towards the character and how it causes these 'altruists' to jump out of the woodwork.

 

[DeltaSceptile]

What's with people thinking Steve has a chance when there are clearly at least 10 choices that have a much higher chance? His only chance is as the "WTF" character, and even then, it could just as easily be a pokemon like Jigglypuff.

 

[GoodGrief741]

I think this potentially could be turning a bit hostile, so in the spirit of good discussion (and also curiosity) I’ll ask: what compels you to back/defend a character you have no interest in?

This is a Royal you, so it can apply to Steve supporters or anyone who fits the bill.

 

[Ze Diglett]

Maybe if you're running into people that often who are willing to go out of their way for a character they don't even care for you might want to be a bit introspective about your attitude towards the character and how it causes these 'altruists' to jump out of the woodwork.

Never said those people were responding to me specifically - quite the contrary, nearly all of them were responding to other people - but thanks for the advice, I guess.

I think this potentially could be turning a bit hostile, so in the spirit of good discussion (and also curiosity) I’ll ask: what compels you to back/defend a character you have no interest in?

This is a Royal you, so it can apply to Steve supporters or anyone who fits the bill.

The only character who I back personally that I don't care much for is King K. Rool, because frankly, it's just his time. He's easily the most consistently popular character request of our time and it really wouldn't feel like the "Ultimate" edition of Smash without him. He's the only character you'll ever hear me call "deserving" of a spot, because he just is, to be quite frank. Besides, if Ridley fans get their wish despite Sakurai's previous comments against him, but K. Rool fans don't, I'm gonna be a little upset on their behalf.

 

[Lynn Eslie]

If only to put thoughts to text and see where they ultimately lead, may as well give this a proper go.

To preface, I personally don't believe in the concept of promoting characters as representatives or "reps", at least not as a priority. As a secondary or perhaps tertiary aspect, I do imagine that characters from lesser-represented franchises will take precedence, all else being similar, but only in that regard. First and foremost, a character should add to the overall experience in a meaningful way. As such, my list will be ignoring such arguments for inclusion, except in cases where it serves to break a potential tie.

Following that, I'd like to revisit what we know so far.

• Everyone is Back: Though this benefits a great many world-wide, it's worth noting that this decision was most likely made with particular regard for the Japanese fanbase. To support this assertion, consider that this massive undertaking necessitates a reduction in new arrivals, and also that the smash ballot showed us rather prominently that Japan prioritizes returning characters over newcomers, while western fans are far more interested in new arrivals.
• Inklings: Little to report here. Inklings represent the core smash philosophy so well, their inclusion was inevitable. The games have been doing extremely well, they offer unique mechanics to play with, and they play into the mascot aesthetic that the many anatomically proper fighters have lessened the overall presence of.
• Daisy/Echoes: I personally imagine Daisy was included primarily as a particularly low-cost way to unveil the re-branding of clones as echoes, and that the development of echoes will otherwise mirror previous entries. That is to say, they will be created during the final stages of production as "extras" provided with left-over development time, and that the missing Assist Trophies may only serve as a means to keep their options open, rather than those characters being expressly "planned"
• Ridley: Given the recent dubbing of the space pterodragon as "Captain America" in Japan, it's safe to conclude that this was done primarily for Western Audiences. It displays that Sakurai is paying attention to the fanbase on a more global scale, which is heartening, but probably won't be a pattern with the other releases.

As a bit of an added note, the current total for added characters is 10 (assuming you count squirtle and ivysaur individually) compared to Wii U/3DS. Might not seem terribly relevant, but I bring it up primarily to estimate where the total might land. Being somewhat conservative, I'll go with the base roster adding 17. But I suppose that's already far too much preamble, so to get to the actual speculation.

• Nindie Character: This is less about representing any particular franchise, and more paying homage to part of the extended Nintendo family. Given the rise of the Indie scene in recent years, noting it to be more than a simple fad, it would further the narrative of Smash as a celebration of gaming to likewise celebrate the indie aspect of modern gaming. The 3 primary candidates for this would be the Nindie SSS: Shantae, Shovel Knight, or Steve, of which I feel Shovel Knight and Shantae would make for the most interesting characters for actual play. If I had to pick one over the other, Shantae would get my vote for belonging to a long-running series, and longer history with Nintendo, but it's worth noting that it's kind of a toss-up with these two.
• Japan's Newcomer: Though "Everyone is Back" was most likely motivated primarily by the Japanese audience, the inclusion of Ridley as the Western pick makes it quite likely Japan will get a favored newcomer as well. From what I can gather among Japan's polls, the most likely candidates for this would be Bandanna Dee and Ashley, of which I currently suspect Ashley is more fitting.
• What's New?: Things that have been created since the finalized roster for Wii U/3DS, which would primarily be Gen 7 Pokemon and Xenoblade Chronicles X, For 3rd party, Monster Hunter, The Witcher, Fallout, Undertale, Dark Souls, Youkai Watch, Bravely Default, etc have been standouts. Of these, I'd expect Elma, with a slight chance of Decidueye, and minor potential for Monster Hunter.
• What's Classic?: The most iconic characters who have yet to make an appearance. Lara Croft, Master Chief, Gordan Freeman, Scorpion, and to a lesser degree Ryu Hayabusa, Banjo & Kazooie, Crash, Spyro, etc. Considering factors such as use of realistic firearms and propensity for gratuitous violence, the most likely candidates would be Banjo, though Lara (Bow) has a pretty good shot as well.
• Weird Pick: Your Duck Hunts, Mr. Game & Watches, and ROB's. Something that doesn't really make any sense, but somehow works anyway. Notable contenders here would be Paper Mario, Chorus Men, Labo-man, and Chibi-Robo. I'll admit to being uncertain on how to judge this category, so while I feel various factors could swing it several ways, I'll just go with Paper Mario.
• Curveball: Something almost no one is talking about, and isn't expected to have any real shot. This time around, this could be a Western IP, an Indie pick, well-loved spinoff character, or someone from a series that's fairly low on the radar. Someone like Crash, Sora(Kingdom Hearts), Waluigi, Edea (Bravely Default), Linkle... the list goes on. If I had to pick one that I think would maximize impact, due to the nature of Ultimate recycling a great many assets from Wii U, I'd leverage that to fake out Waluigi as an Assist Trophy, only to the pull the rug out and reveal him later on.
• Additional Fanservice: Characters chosen primarily due to popular demand, which offer interesting gameplay scenarios to help justify their inclusion. These would be those like King K. Rool, Bandanna Dee, Isaac, Geno, and Simon Belmont. We may well get more than one of these, but King K. Rool is most probable.

TL;DR: Predicting Shantae, Ashley, Elma, Banjo & Kazooie, Paper Mario, Waluigi, and King K. Rool.

Edit: Adjusted the placements of Ashley and K. Rool.

 

[Opossum]

I think this potentially could be turning a bit hostile, so in the spirit of good discussion (and also curiosity) I’ll ask: what compels you to back/defend a character you have no interest in?

This is a Royal you, so it can apply to Steve supporters or anyone who fits the bill.

Generally there are two main groups of characters I talk about: those I personally want, and those whose inclusions make sense to me or have merit. Sometimes they overlap, sometimes they don't.

For example, I really don't like Animal Crossing. Not my cup of tea in the slightest and I very much regret spending forty dollars on New Leaf. That being said, Isabelle is a character that, to me, absolutely should be in Smash, being the biggest Nintendo all-star not currently in.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

If only to put thoughts to text and see where they ultimately lead, may as well give this a proper go.

To preface, I personally don't believe in the concept of promoting characters as representatives of "reps", at least not as a priority. As a secondary or perhaps tertiary aspect, I do imagine that characters from lesser-represented franchises will take precedence, all else being similar. First and foremost, a character should add to the overall experience in a meaningful way. As such, my list will be ignoring such arguments for inclusion, except in cases where it serves to break a potential tie.

Following that, I'd like to revisit what we know so far.

• Everyone is Back: Though this benefits a great many world-wide, it's worth noting that this decision was most likely made with particular regard for the Japanese fanbase. To support this assertion, consider that this massive undertaking necessitates a reduction in new arrivals, and also that the smash ballot showed us rather prominently that Japan prioritizes returning characters over newcomers, while western fans are far more interested in newcomers.
• Inklings: Little to report here. Inklings represent the core smash philosophy so well, their inclusion was inevitable. The games have been doing extremely well, they offer unique mechanics to play with, and they play into the mascot aesthetic that the many anatomically proper fighters have lessened the overall presence of.
• Daisy/Echoes: I personally imagine Daisy was included primarily as a particularly low-cost way to unveil the re-branding of clones as echoes, and that the development of echoes will otherwise mirror previous entries. That is to say, they will be created during the final stages of production as "extras" provided with left-over development time, and that the missing Assist Trophies may only serve as a means to keep their options open, rather than those characters being expressly "planned"
• Ridley: Given the recent dubbing of the space pterodragon as "Captain America" in Japan, it's safe to conclude that this was done primarily for Western Audiences. It displays that Sakurai is paying attention to the fanbase on a more global scale, which is heartening, but probably won't be a pattern with the other releases.

As a bit of an added note, the current total for added characters is 13 (assuming you count squirtle and ivysaur individually) compared to Wii U/3DS. Might not seem terribly relevant, but I bring it up primarily to estimate where the total might land. Being somewhat conservative, I'll go with the base roster adding 20. But I suppose that's already far too much preamble, so to get to the actual speculation.

• Nindie Character: This is less about representing any particular franchise, and more paying homage to part of the extended Nintendo family. Given the rise of the Indie scene in recent years, noting it to be more than a simple fad, it would further the narrative of Smash as a celebration of gaming to likewise celebrate the indie aspect of modern gaming. The 3 primary candidates for this would be the Nindie SSS: Shantae, Shovel Knight, or Steve, of which I feel Shovel Knight and Shantae would make for the most interesting characters for actual play. If I had to pick one over the other, Shantae would get my vote for belonging to a long-running series, and longer history with Nintendo, but it's worth noting that it's kind of a toss-up with these two.
• Japan's Newcomer: Though "Everyone is Back" was most likely motivated primarily by the Japanese audience, the inclusion of Ridley as the Western pick makes it quite likely Japan will get a favored newcomer as well. From what I can gather among Japan's polls, the most likely candidate for this would be King K. Rool, whose status as an incredibly goofy character, and world-wide popularity also helps him along.
• What's New?: Things that have been created since the finalized roster for Wii U/3DS, which would primarily be Gen 7 Pokemon and Xenoblade Chronicles X, For 3rd party, Monster Hunter, The Witcher, Fallout, Undertale, Dark Souls, Youkai Watch, Bravely Default, etc have been standouts. Of these, I'd expect Elma, with a slight chance of Decidueye, and minor potential for Monster Hunter.
• What's Classic?: The most iconic characters who have yet to make an appearance. Lara Croft, Master Chief, Gordan Freeman, Scorpion, and to a lesser degree Ryu Hayabusa, Banjo & Kazooie, Crash, Spyro, etc. Considering factors such as use of realistic firearms and propensity for gratuitous violence, the most likely candidates would be Banjo, though Lara (Bow) has a pretty good shot as well.
• Weird Pick: Your Duck Hunts, Mr. Game & Watches, and ROB's. Something that doesn't really make any sense, but somehow works anyway. Notable contenders here would be Paper Mario, Chorus Men, Labo-man, and Chibi-Robo. I'll admit to being uncertain on how to judge this category, so while I feel various factors could swing it several ways, I'll just go with Paper Mario.
• Curveball: Something almost no one is talking about, and isn't expected to have any real shot. This time around, this could be a Western IP, an Indie pick, well-loved spinoff character, or someone from a series that's fairly low on the radar. Someone like Crash, Sora(Kingdom Hearts), Waluigi, Edea (Bravely Default), Linkle... the list goes on. If I had to pick one that I think would maximize impact, due to the nature of Ultimate recycling a great many assets from Wii U, I'd leverage that to fake out Waluigi as an Assist Trophy, only to the pull the rug out and reveal him later on.
• Additional Fanservice: Characters chosen primarily due to popular demand, which offer interesting gameplay scenarios to help justify their inclusion. These would be those like Bandanna Dee, Isaac, Geno, Simon Belmont, and Ashley. We may well get more than one of these, but I'm currently leaning towards Ashley as most probable.

TL;DR: Predicting Shantae, King K. Rool, Elma, Banjo & Kazooie, Paper Mario, Waluigi, and Ashley.

Where did you get 13 additions? We have Pichu, Young Link, Squirtle, Ivysaur, Ice Climbers, Wolf, Snake, Inkling, and Ridley that total to 9 unique additions, and 1 Echo in Daisy...

Though I mostly agree with your picks, I think you have a bit of it backwards with regards to fan picks. I think the overall fan service pick would be King K Rool (potentially with others alongside him), while the popular Japanese rep would be Ashley given her popularity over there (Bandanna Dee also has popularity and could easily function as alternate pick as well for either slot). Doesn’t change your predictions, it just seems to me they’d feel different roles.

The whole Waluigi curveball thing people keep saying I just can’t support though. As a Ridley fan who held on to hope from a shadow, I can’t let myself believe again. Not to mention he was as disconfirmed as they come in the trailer...

Though I do think, that there is a significant chance Sakurai approaches the roster differently and his more traditional way of picking newcomers goes out the window altogether in favor of remaining big names and fan requested characters all around.

 

[Lynn Eslie]

Where did you get 13 additions? We have Pichu, Young Link, Squirtle, Ivysaur, Ice Climbers, Wolf, Snake, Inkling, and Ridley that total to 9 unique additions, and 1 Echo in Daisy...

Ahh, my mistake. I counted the number of confirmed characters that did not feature in Wii U/3DS, and then added 3 again for whatever reason. Fixed it.

The whole Waluigi curveball thing people keep saying I just can’t support though. As a Ridley fan who held on to hope from a shadow, I can’t let myself believe again. Not to mention he was as disconfirmed as they come in the trailer...

Though I do think, that there is a significant chance Sakurai approaches the roster differently and his more traditional way of picking newcomers goes out the window altogether in favor of remaining big names and fan requested characters all around.

The primary reason for Waluigi as a curveball is how hard it is to believe. I am not personally a fan(nor do I understand his popularity), but if I were looking for a way to blindside most everyone, running the Wii U Waluigi AT through the new filter, publicly 'de-confirming' him, and then later revealing him just before release -knowing he had been largely given up on- would be sorely tempting. Wouldn't waste resources on something so ridiculous as a fake-out trophy that need be designed from the ground up, but would entertain the notion if presented with such a convenient situation.

That said, I do agree with you on switching spots for King K. Rool and Ashley. I set up my list as a somewhat structured stream of consciousness, and I suppose my failure to review the categories after the fact shows.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

If only to put thoughts to text and see where they ultimately lead, may as well give this a proper go.

To preface, I personally don't believe in the concept of promoting characters as representatives of "reps", at least not as a priority. As a secondary or perhaps tertiary aspect, I do imagine that characters from lesser-represented franchises will take precedence, all else being similar. First and foremost, a character should add to the overall experience in a meaningful way. As such, my list will be ignoring such arguments for inclusion, except in cases where it serves to break a potential tie.

Following that, I'd like to revisit what we know so far.

• Everyone is Back: Though this benefits a great many world-wide, it's worth noting that this decision was most likely made with particular regard for the Japanese fanbase. To support this assertion, consider that this massive undertaking necessitates a reduction in new arrivals, and also that the smash ballot showed us rather prominently that Japan prioritizes returning characters over newcomers, while western fans are far more interested in newcomers.
• Inklings: Little to report here. Inklings represent the core smash philosophy so well, their inclusion was inevitable. The games have been doing extremely well, they offer unique mechanics to play with, and they play into the mascot aesthetic that the many anatomically proper fighters have lessened the overall presence of.
• Daisy/Echoes: I personally imagine Daisy was included primarily as a particularly low-cost way to unveil the re-branding of clones as echoes, and that the development of echoes will otherwise mirror previous entries. That is to say, they will be created during the final stages of production as "extras" provided with left-over development time, and that the missing Assist Trophies may only serve as a means to keep their options open, rather than those characters being expressly "planned"
• Ridley: Given the recent dubbing of the space pterodragon as "Captain America" in Japan, it's safe to conclude that this was done primarily for Western Audiences. It displays that Sakurai is paying attention to the fanbase on a more global scale, which is heartening, but probably won't be a pattern with the other releases.

As a bit of an added note, the current total for added characters is 10 (assuming you count squirtle and ivysaur individually) compared to Wii U/3DS. Might not seem terribly relevant, but I bring it up primarily to estimate where the total might land. Being somewhat conservative, I'll go with the base roster adding 17. But I suppose that's already far too much preamble, so to get to the actual speculation.

• Nindie Character: This is less about representing any particular franchise, and more paying homage to part of the extended Nintendo family. Given the rise of the Indie scene in recent years, noting it to be more than a simple fad, it would further the narrative of Smash as a celebration of gaming to likewise celebrate the indie aspect of modern gaming. The 3 primary candidates for this would be the Nindie SSS: Shantae, Shovel Knight, or Steve, of which I feel Shovel Knight and Shantae would make for the most interesting characters for actual play. If I had to pick one over the other, Shantae would get my vote for belonging to a long-running series, and longer history with Nintendo, but it's worth noting that it's kind of a toss-up with these two.
• Japan's Newcomer: Though "Everyone is Back" was most likely motivated primarily by the Japanese audience, the inclusion of Ridley as the Western pick makes it quite likely Japan will get a favored newcomer as well. From what I can gather among Japan's polls, the most likely candidate for this would be King K. Rool, whose status as an incredibly goofy character, and world-wide popularity also helps him along.
• What's New?: Things that have been created since the finalized roster for Wii U/3DS, which would primarily be Gen 7 Pokemon and Xenoblade Chronicles X, For 3rd party, Monster Hunter, The Witcher, Fallout, Undertale, Dark Souls, Youkai Watch, Bravely Default, etc have been standouts. Of these, I'd expect Elma, with a slight chance of Decidueye, and minor potential for Monster Hunter.
• What's Classic?: The most iconic characters who have yet to make an appearance. Lara Croft, Master Chief, Gordan Freeman, Scorpion, and to a lesser degree Ryu Hayabusa, Banjo & Kazooie, Crash, Spyro, etc. Considering factors such as use of realistic firearms and propensity for gratuitous violence, the most likely candidates would be Banjo, though Lara (Bow) has a pretty good shot as well.
• Weird Pick: Your Duck Hunts, Mr. Game & Watches, and ROB's. Something that doesn't really make any sense, but somehow works anyway. Notable contenders here would be Paper Mario, Chorus Men, Labo-man, and Chibi-Robo. I'll admit to being uncertain on how to judge this category, so while I feel various factors could swing it several ways, I'll just go with Paper Mario.
• Curveball: Something almost no one is talking about, and isn't expected to have any real shot. This time around, this could be a Western IP, an Indie pick, well-loved spinoff character, or someone from a series that's fairly low on the radar. Someone like Crash, Sora(Kingdom Hearts), Waluigi, Edea (Bravely Default), Linkle... the list goes on. If I had to pick one that I think would maximize impact, due to the nature of Ultimate recycling a great many assets from Wii U, I'd leverage that to fake out Waluigi as an Assist Trophy, only to the pull the rug out and reveal him later on.
• Additional Fanservice: Characters chosen primarily due to popular demand, which offer interesting gameplay scenarios to help justify their inclusion. These would be those like Bandanna Dee, Isaac, Geno, Simon Belmont, and Ashley. We may well get more than one of these, but I'm currently leaning towards Ashley as most probable.

TL;DR: Predicting Shantae, King K. Rool, Elma, Banjo & Kazooie, Paper Mario, Waluigi, and Ashley.

Switch k rool and Ashley and it's better (however I will point out on source gaming Japanese most wanted poll they did during the ballot era bandana dee got second place suposivly)

And the excite biker or Mach rider or a rythem heaven rep might be a better weird pick catergory Mach ider especially if you recall the whole toy sakurai bought Rory since smash ultimate was under development at the time he got that toy and the gun looks like Mach riders

 

[Starbound]

Your reaction to this newcomer list:

- Inkling
- Ridley
- Skull Kid
- Isabelle
- Heihachi
- K. Rool
- Lloyd (Tales of)
- Monster Hunter
- Geno
- Ashley
- Any Gen 7 Pokemon
- Elma or Rex
- Dark Samus (echo)
- Octoling (echo)
- Daisy (echo)

15 newcomers. Brings the total to 78 characters. Just took a bunch of the Mii costume characters (since people like to view those as 'compensation for not being a playable fighter), added Gen 7 Pokemon and Xenoblade since they're fairly likely as concepts, and finished with two echoes that could, realistically, be anything.

 

[YoshiandToad]

Your reaction to this newcomer list:

- Inkling
- Ridley
- Skull Kid
- Isabelle
- Heihachi
- K. Rool
- Lloyd (Tales of)
- Monster Hunter
- Geno
- Ashley
- Any Gen 7 Pokemon
- Elma or Rex
- Dark Samus (echo)
- Octoling (echo)
- Daisy (echo)

15 newcomers. Brings the total to 78 characters. Just took a bunch of the Mii costume characters (since people like to view those as 'compensation for not being a playable fighter), added Gen 7 Pokemon and Xenoblade since they're fairly likely as concepts, and finished with two echoes that could, realistically, be anything.

Well, I get Isabelle I guess, but the rest include two characters I actively don't want, and a bunch of characters I either mildly dislike or are middling/indifferent about. If Shadow replaced Octoling, this could easily be my worst fears for a newcomer list.
To be fair, everyone and their mother seems to want K. Rool, Ashley, Geno and either Elma or Rex so it'd probably appeal to a lot of people but I'd personally be ultimately disappointed with this selection.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Generally there are two main groups of characters I talk about: those I personally want, and those whose inclusions make sense to me or have merit. Sometimes they overlap, sometimes they don't.

For example, I really don't like Animal Crossing. Not my cup of tea in the slightest and I very much regret spending forty dollars on New Leaf. That being said, Isabelle is a character that, to me, absolutely should be in Smash, being the biggest Nintendo all-star not currently in.

I guess the difference between us lies in what we consider ‘deserving’. For third parties, I consider that one of the characteristics that make a series ‘deserving’ is game quality. While every third party franchise represented in Smash has games considered classics, masterpieces, or the best of their genre, Minecraft is usually considered an ok game, and is more remembered by its commercial success and ubiquity on YouTube.

Your reaction to this newcomer list:

- Inkling
- Ridley
- Skull Kid
- Isabelle
- Heihachi
- K. Rool
- Lloyd (Tales of)
- Monster Hunter
- Geno
- Ashley
- Any Gen 7 Pokemon
- Elma or Rex
- Dark Samus (echo)
- Octoling (echo)
- Daisy (echo)

15 newcomers. Brings the total to 78 characters. Just took a bunch of the Mii costume characters (since people like to view those as 'compensation for not being a playable fighter), added Gen 7 Pokemon and Xenoblade since they're fairly likely as concepts, and finished with two echoes that could, realistically, be anything.

Doesn’t seem likely, it’s way too focused on third parties, and there are no new first party franchises represented, so it’d probably be the worst newcomer lineup for me (and that’s a lot, considering we did get Ridley).

 

[Ze Diglett]

Your reaction to this newcomer list:

- Inkling
- Ridley
- Skull Kid
- Isabelle
- Heihachi
- K. Rool
- Lloyd (Tales of)
- Monster Hunter
- Geno
- Ashley
- Any Gen 7 Pokemon
- Elma or Rex
- Dark Samus (echo)
- Octoling (echo)
- Daisy (echo)

15 newcomers. Brings the total to 78 characters. Just took a bunch of the Mii costume characters (since people like to view those as 'compensation for not being a playable fighter), added Gen 7 Pokemon and Xenoblade since they're fairly likely as concepts, and finished with two echoes that could, realistically, be anything.

Well, any roster with Geno in it is an instant win in my book, but I'm not too crazy about the rest of these picks for the most part. K. Rool would be a dream come true on the fanbase's part, and I at least like Ashley stylistically, but the rest just... don't do anything for me. I particularly dislike the idea of more realistic human fighters in the roster, and Gen 7 Pokemon could be anyone, including one of my least-wanted newcomers. I also don't think Animal Crossing should get a new rep and that a catch-all rep in Villager is more than enough, so I wouldn't appreciate Isabelle getting in either. Outside of the Echoes, who I don't care about one way or the other, and the ones who are already confirmed, all that leaves is Skull Kid, who's just sort of there for me. Overall, not great, but at least it has Geno.
Throw in Bandanna Dee, on the other hand, and we might be getting somewhere.

 

[Crap-Zapper]

Your reaction to this newcomer list:

- Inkling
- Ridley
- Skull Kid
- Isabelle
- Heihachi
- K. Rool
- Lloyd (Tales of)
- Monster Hunter
- Geno
- Ashley
- Any Gen 7 Pokemon
- Elma or Rex
- Dark Samus (echo)
- Octoling (echo)
- Daisy (echo)

15 newcomers. Brings the total to 78 characters. Just took a bunch of the Mii costume characters (since people like to view those as 'compensation for not being a playable fighter), added Gen 7 Pokemon and Xenoblade since they're fairly likely as concepts, and finished with two echoes that could, realistically, be anything.

Inkling: Makes sense, perhaps the only shoe-inn we all thought would happen. Splatoon 1 was, and still is, pretty good.

Ridley: About time. Verg came through, and Sakurai did too, finally Ridz are playable, something we have been waiting patiently for years to happen.

Skull Kid: Main villain of my favourite Zelda game? Oh Yes. My current avatar approves of this. Hopefully with the Moon crashing down.

Isabelle: Makes sense, she is popular, and Nintendo loves to promote her. I'm sure she would be cool. Love New Leaf, and she is cool in MK8.

Heihachi: Hot damn! My favourite fighting game, and my favourite Mishima. One of my favourite fighters in the series itself, and an Iconic video game character. Old Heihachi is good Heihachi.

K. Rool: Alright, Sakurai. I will never ask you for anything ever again. You have given me the reason I've speculated in the begining, and my most wanted since pre-Brawl. Thank You, my sweet prince.

Lloyd: Hmm... Well, the dual sword idea is cool, and I did like him in Super Smash Flash 2, but I've never really cared for the series. I'm sure he'd be epic to play nontheless tho.

Monster Hunter: I'll keep an positive mind, I'll come around eventually, but in my honest opinion, this is nothing that keeps me excited, outside of that huge as sword. (If we go by MVCI's design)

Geno: Better have his theme in game. He is a cool obscure character that I'd love to see in the game. He'd be pretty fly. Fanservice, woo!

Ashley: I've fallen more and more in love with the idea, so, this would be pretty epic. Give me some Ashley, she is the coolest WarioWare character, together with Orbulon. (IMO)

Any Gen 7 Pokémon: Makes sense. I don't mind it at all, no matter who. Pokémon are usually very welcome.

Elma: Pretty epic, dual gun swords, that's something cool. I think she looks good.

Rex: He better have Pyra or Mythra with him ... He looks cool. Shulk be Red, and Rex be Blue, I like.

Dark Samus (Echo): It's a waste ... She had so much more going for her as a unique addition, and I know that could be said for most echoes, but after seeing her Assist Trophy and not be able to do those sick ****s are a bit dissapointing.

Octoling (Echo): Fits the bill quite well. Quite welcoming.

Daisy (Echo): Finally. She was always a palette swap, and fits this role. I'm actually going to use her a lot. Since her inclusion in Ultimate, I've actually start using her in the spin-off games a lot, making her a new main in Tennis.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Your reaction to this newcomer list:

- Inkling
- Ridley
- Skull Kid
- Isabelle
- Heihachi
- K. Rool
- Lloyd (Tales of)
- Monster Hunter
- Geno
- Ashley
- Any Gen 7 Pokemon
- Elma or Rex
- Dark Samus (echo)
- Octoling (echo)
- Daisy (echo)

15 newcomers. Brings the total to 78 characters. Just took a bunch of the Mii costume characters (since people like to view those as 'compensation for not being a playable fighter), added Gen 7 Pokemon and Xenoblade since they're fairly likely as concepts, and finished with two echoes that could, realistically, be anything.

Considering I expect maybe 5 more unique newcomers, I’d be pretty happy with just the sheer number of newcomers and the how many are big names that are requested characters that I also happen to like.

First party wise, that’d be a solid list, with Isaac being the one missing character I’d need.

Third party I’d be a little less thrilled, Heihachi I’d like to see, but I’m pretty indifferent to Lloyd and Monster Hunter reps. I mean I love Monster Hunter, but I’d like to see another big name as a new third party like Simon, Banjo, or Rayman. They’d have a little more notability I think. I also just want them more.

But again, overall, I’d just be very happy.

 

[DNeon]

My decision to respond in threads such as these usually boils down to 3 things:

1. "That's an interesting format with which to express my opinions" aka those 'list X of each category Y' formats or pictures like the recent "Main, Secondary, Most Wanted, Least Wanted"
2. "I don't just disagree but believe that to be factually wrong" like my recent comment on 2D vs 3D character animation
3. and lastly, if im feeling frisky, "I believe that line of discussion is actively toxic towards other discussion rather than facilitating an exchange of different ideas" aka, why I started the discussion about blatant biases misrepresenting Minecraft as a game.

Those last 2 are usually why I'd choose to defend a character I don't care about. For reference I actually find the whole idea of not wanting specific characters immature and stifling towards discussion but there's no real fighting that happening.

On the topic of factually incorrect:

Minecraft is usually considered an ok game, and is more remembered by its commercial success and ubiquity on YouTube.

I don't even know how to respond to this...

I've already talked about using your doublespeak to talk of one thing that should outright confirm something logically but act like it is actually irrelevant. A self made game with no marketing behind it from an indie studio doesn't just become the second biggest commercial success of all time by being mediocre. Please, so I can understand how this logic works, please tell me how you thinking Minecraft went from one man's basement project to global phenomenon by being mediocre.

If you want more than just my rambling on this topic then I guess I'll leave this by saying it has a Metacritic score of 93.

 

[Ninja Fisto]

Shadow and Dark Samus will make it in.
Shadows assist being replaced by Knuckles seems odd, and i feel like Sakurai could add another Sonic rep. Dark Samus hasn't been confirmed as an assist and Samus' Dark Samus alt is gone so... 3rd Samus to join Smash

 

[Ze Diglett]

Okay, here's something that's absolutely baffling to me:
What's with everyone saying the Knuckles Assist Trophy "replaced" Shadow's? Is it just because we haven't seen the latter yet? Who says Sonic can't have two Assist Trophies that are functionally quite distinct from one another? Do we have reason to believe this is actually the case, or is it just something people are saying? I can believe it, I just want to know why people are saying it.

 

[SonicMario]

I do kinda think it's still possible for Shadow to still be an assist myself. I think the thing is mainly that in previous Smash games there was only one assist trophy per base game 3rd party. (Shadow and Grey Fox in Brawl. Shadow, Elec Man, and the Pac-Man Ghosts). That said given this game will look to have alot more 3rd party assist trophies (If Grey Fox returns as an Assist Trophy that's Konami having two with him and Bomberman, also Sega technically has both Knuckles and Rodin already. Wouldn't see any harm in having a 3rd with Shadow) then usual, even multiple for one company, I don't think we can rule it out completely. And I kinda wouldn't be surprised is as with the everyone is here, a vast majority of the stages, that they also have nearly every Assist Trophy (For the exception of course of any who get promoted to playable ala Little Mac).

I do think there will probably be at least one former AT promotion to playable in this game. But I wouldn't say Shadow is an absolute lock at that.

 

[DNeon]

I think people say 'replaced' just because we havent seen Shadow yet. If we see Shadow then he won't have been relaplaced but until then we don't know if Shadow's even coming back, so replaced kinda fits.

 

[IsmaR]

We still don't even know if Gray Fox/Elec Man are returning, let alone if they have been "replaced."

While I'm hopeful for certain omissions (Dark Samus, Ashley and in the best timeline/alternate reality, Dillon), I'm not counting any as shoo-ins/"definitely not ATs this time, therefore they gotta be playable" by any means. We're waiting for another major info drop for a long time, assuming we've seen everything is a mistake.

Lest we repeat the folly of Isaac assumptions during Smash 4 (It hurt me alongside his fans, despite never believing it meant anything), don't count your chickens.

 

[Ninja Fisto]

We still don't even know if Gray Fox/Elec Man are returning, let alone if they have been "replaced."

While I'm hopeful for certain omissions (Dark Samus, Ashley and in the best timeline/alternate reality, Dillon), I'm not counting any as shoo-ins/"definitely not ATs this time, therefore they gotta be playable" by any means. We're waiting for another major info drop for a long time, assuming we've seen everything is a mistake.

Lest we repeat the folly of Isaac assumptions during Smash 4 (It hurt me alongside his fans, despite never believing it meant anything), don't count your chickens.

Very true however it is also very odd that Samus also lost her Dark Samus alt, and she isnt comfrimed as Assist so...

 

[Starbound]

Very true however it is also very odd that Samus also lost her Dark Samus alt, and she isnt comfrimed as Assist so...

I think this is where a lot of Dark Samus support comes from, moreso than the AT being gone. Gives it more in common with Dark Pit than Little Mac.

 

[IsmaR]

I think this is where a lot of Dark Samus support comes from, moreso than the AT being gone. Gives it more in common with Dark Pit than Little Mac.

I've held hope since Brawl that if Ridley ever got in, she would be next in line for the "potentially low effort addition that would still make sense/be awesome if we doubled up on Metroid reps."

(Obviously would prefer to be as unique as possible, but really anything at this point is bonus points)

At least put her theme in the game, Sakurai.

 

[Mrs.Milky]

Your reaction to this newcomer list:

- Inkling
- Ridley
- Skull Kid
- Isabelle
- Heihachi
- K. Rool
- Lloyd (Tales of)
- Monster Hunter
- Geno
- Ashley
- Any Gen 7 Pokemon
- Elma or Rex
- Dark Samus (echo)
- Octoling (echo)
- Daisy (echo)

15 newcomers. Brings the total to 78 characters. Just took a bunch of the Mii costume characters (since people like to view those as 'compensation for not being a playable fighter), added Gen 7 Pokemon and Xenoblade since they're fairly likely as concepts, and finished with two echoes that could, realistically, be anything.

Put zero in this and I'd nut
Honestly the only one I wouldn't like is monster Hunter, as i have no interest in the game, but I guess a couple of enemies and items put into smash wouldn't hurt

 

[StormC]

Your reaction to this newcomer list:

- Inkling
- Ridley
- Skull Kid
- Isabelle
- Heihachi
- K. Rool
- Lloyd (Tales of)
- Monster Hunter
- Geno
- Ashley
- Any Gen 7 Pokemon
- Elma or Rex
- Dark Samus (echo)
- Octoling (echo)
- Daisy (echo)

15 newcomers. Brings the total to 78 characters. Just took a bunch of the Mii costume characters (since people like to view those as 'compensation for not being a playable fighter), added Gen 7 Pokemon and Xenoblade since they're fairly likely as concepts, and finished with two echoes that could, realistically, be anything.

Bandana Dee or we riot!

It'd be a great roster, no question. I'd say that about any roster with K. Rool. But considering I think 8 unique newcomers would be a miracle in and of itself... this would be mindblowing.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

Personally I don't know how any sensible person could consider any character a "shoo in" this time around. With the exception of K Rool (though even then I'd say shoo in is a bit much) and maybe Simon Belmont if you trust vergeben.

Out of the three newcomers we already have, two of them were unexpected and the other one was ridiculously obvious. If you decide to add Simon Belmont to the list you get another character people weren't expecting.

We're already performing poorly in terms of predictions.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

Made a theoretical NES Smash Bros roster.

 

[Ze Diglett]

Personally I don't know how any sensible person could consider any character a "shoo in" this time around. With the exception of K Rool (though even then I'd say shoo in is a bit much) and maybe Simon Belmont if you trust vergeben.

Out of the three newcomers we already have, two of them were unexpected and the other one was ridiculously obvious. If you decide to add Simon Belmont to the list you get another character people weren't expecting.

We're already performing poorly in terms of predictions.

Most of us are past the "shoo-in" garbage at this point, mate. We learned our lesson about that after we got burned by Takamaru and the news about the project plan. Personally, I wouldn't even call anyone highly likely at this point outside of K. Rool, Geno, Bandanna Dee, and maybe Simon Belmont.

 

[Opossum]

Meanwhile, Isabelle and an Alola Pokémon are the only newcomers (besides Simon due to the leak) that I'm confident in this time around.

 

[StormC]

I consider K. Rool and Bandana Dee the most likely Nintendo newcomers.

Anything after that is a crapshoot, in part because some characters are borderline whether or not they would be an Echo Fighter.

 

[Draugen]

Okay, here's something that's absolutely baffling to me:
What's with everyone saying the Knuckles Assist Trophy "replaced" Shadow's? Is it just because we haven't seen the latter yet? Who says Sonic can't have two Assist Trophies that are functionally quite distinct from one another? Do we have reason to believe this is actually the case, or is it just something people are saying? I can believe it, I just want to know why people are saying it.

It seems to me that the fanbase is overthinking as always. Always searching for clues where they may (or may not) exist.

 

[prowler12]

bandanna Dee is not in the audience in ddd final smash and a kirby game Sakarui created he was the only audience member so it would be weird to leave him out

 

[RileyXY1]

bandanna Dee is not in the audience in ddd final smash and a kirby game Sakarui created he was the only audience member so it would be weird to leave him out

However, Bandanna Dee didn't become a major character until Return to Dream Land, a game made after Sakurai left.

 

[prowler12]

However, Bandanna Dee didn't become a major character until Return to Dream Land, a game made after Sakurai left.

but would Sakarai leave him out?

 

[SmashChu]

but would Sakarai leave him out?

Probably. He doesn't have much personality, he only has a spear (which isn't enough as other lance characters have been snuffed) and he's basically a "Goomba with a hat." There isn't much reason to think he'd be in. He's popular with the Smash community but I don't think he's popular overall and probably didn't do great on the ballot.

 

[prowler12]

Probably. He doesn't have much personality, he only has a spear (which isn't enough as other lance characters have been snuffed) and he's basically a "Goomba with a hat." There isn't much reason to think he'd be in. He's popular with the Smash community but I don't think he's popular overall and probably didn't do great on the ballot.

i meant in ddds final smash in the audience

 

[SmashChu]

i meant in ddds final smash in the audience

To that question, yes, he'd leave him out. No real reason to have him as he'd be off to the side anyway.