Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[StrangeKitten]

The great truth no one wants to acknowledge.
I mean I'm not complaining, but even though Hyrule Warriors' announcement has done jack and squat in terms of raising the chances of a Zelda character making it in the pass, if it generates discussion for it over the Nth Pokemon/Geno/Fire Emblem discussion I say delude away.

It's possible for Sakurai to have known about Hyrule Warriors in advance, though. That's what slightly raises the chances of a Zelda rep

 

[PSIGuy]

Out of curiosity, where did the "FP2 started at E3 2019" thing come from? Was it said by a leaker, or is it just speculation, or what?

Rare discusses the year-long team-up that brought Banjo to Smash Bros.

In a recent interview with Gamesindustry.biz, Craig Duncan (the studio head at Rare) discussed the team-up that led to Banjo in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate.

www.nintendoenthusiast.com

“ Minecraft had paved the way for that relationship between Nintendo and Microsoft. I met with Nintendo at the E3 before we announced it. And then we connected our teams, because we thought it seemed like a great opportunity.”
E3 is a place where meetings between companies DO happen so it’s very reasonable to think they touched bases with interested parties.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

It's possible for Sakurai to have known about Hyrule Warriors in advance, though. That's what slightly raises the chances of a Zelda rep

I think it would be the fact that Nintendo seems to be planning something big with The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild, as it's now a trilogy.

Though the bonus Mii Costume alongside other factors like the lack of a good pick (the Guardians are a package deal, Impa's an old lady in most of the story, etc.), and the fact that The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild already has a ton of content leads me to believe that The Legend of Zelda series isn't getting a character.

 

[kaithehedgefox]

Spoiler: Update o[I]n my opinions and behavior

PSA: Please ignore all my post and topics that were created before the COVID-19 pandemic. My opinions and thoughts have had major changes since the pandemic initiated. My behavi[/I]or has now improved and I will not cause anymore trouble from now on.

All my posts from before the pandemic are now all outdated.

While all my opinions have changed during the COVID-19 pandemic, I'm curious will all DLC releases be on weekdays only?

 

[Cosmic77]

Everyone has criticisms of Skyward Sword but characters are the last thing that is the problem. The characterization in Skyward Sword is better than 90% of all other Zelda games.

Like Groose, Demise, Ghirahim, Fi, Eldin, Faron, Lanayru, Impa, Batreaux, the list goes on and on dude. Not only that but it wasn’t for the lack of ideas that a Zelda character wasn’t chosen because we got plenty of items from Skyward Sword in Smash 4. And even besides all that we got Ghirahim as an assist.

Hell Skyward Sword isn’t even a bad game. It’s probably in my Top 3 Wii games ever. It’s just not what people wanted. People, even me, wanted a game as big as Wind Waker or Twilight Princess or bigger but Skyward Sword was a more linear much more puzzle based Zelda game in stark contrast to Breath of the Wild. Not to say that SS doesn’t deserve criticism but it being not what people wanted doesn’t make it bad. It just means, like you said, it was poorly timed.

There’s some sort of weird exception to Zelda and it just kind of sucks. But it’s not because SS was “bad”. It seems like Sakurai is specifically looking for a character that can fit with the Tri-Force Trio that will stay relevant in games going forward and honestly the only one character I can think of is Impa.

or Tingle.

I wasn't referring to the characters or reception of the game. SS had really sluggish sales, especially in Japan. It never quite took off like TP and other Zelda games before it, so that may have had an impact on Sakurai's decision not to add a Zelda character. You also have to keep in mind that the game was only a few months old when Sakurai started development on Smash 4, so it might've not been very clear back then which SS characters people wanted in Smash.

I don't believe Sakurai actually has a rule where only Triforce characters can get in Smash. I just think the timing along with the inconsistent appearances of Zelda characters and lack of unity with the fans makes it hard for him to buckle down on someone. During development of one Smash game, Tingle and Impa might be very relevant. In the next, their most recent appearance might be in the form of a cameo or a version of themselves that isn't suited for Smash, making the timing of their addition a little awkward. One-off characters seem self-explanatory; they debut, they're the shiny, new star for a while, and then a new Zelda game with a new character steals the spotlight. By then, it feels like the window of opportunity is gone, at least until they do something notable again or suddenly become one of the most largely requested characters.

Zelda is too big of a franchise to not receive another character ever again. Sooner or later we will get a seventh character, and I don't believe recurring characters like Impa are the only ones on the table. If they were, then we'd run into the same problem again later down the line. Like I said before, I believe timing is the most important factor for Zelda.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

...I'm curious will all DLC releases be on weekdays only?

Probably. I don't think Nintendo does anything on the weekends.

 

[AreJay25]

Probably. I don't think Nintendo does anything on the weekends.

IIRC during Smash 4, Ryu, Roy and Lucas were released on a Sunday, but that's about the only occurrence.

 

[7NATOR]

Out of curiosity, where did the "FP2 started at E3 2019" thing come from? Was it said by a leaker, or is it just speculation, or what?

Imran Kahn said so. said that Around the Time of E3, the Pass was greenlit

I think there's other stuff, but i think that's the main thing

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Yeah, what's telling is outside a somewhat enduring fanbase for Groose, it just doesn't feel like Skyward Sword left the same legacy as the other 3D Zelda titles.

-OOT is iconic and still ends up on greatest games ever lists.
-MM's story is seen by many as the best in the series and its unconventional approach has gained more fans in the two decades since its release.
-WW not only had two DS sequels but its art style has become instantly recognizable as a subseries of LoZ itself.
-TP created a beloved character in Midna and is acclaimed for its incredibly effective atmosphere.
-BotW's mega popularity speaks for itself.

Against all that, to some fans SS just seems like a solid but not terribly spectacular experiment. In some ways the Mario Sunshine of the Zelda series; very fun but lacking the oomph that other games in its series possessed.

 

[SpectreJordan]

[

I've already seen about two or three new characters in this game who were mostly neglected in conversations because this thread decided they wouldn't happen. There's no way Sakurai would choose Incineroar over Decidueye, and ARMS missed its chance.

At the very least, I don't think there's any harm in having an occasional conversation on a character deemed as unlikely. It allows people to talk about an often neglected character, as well as keep more variety in this thread.

People don’t focus on characters like that because people don’t really want those characters. If the character isn’t really wanted then people won’t have much of an opinion on them when it comes to discussions.

I get the frustration with the conversation often going back to the same group of characters. But I think that’s a simple explanation.

There was that post a mod made a while back (just before the Hyrule Warriors AoC announcement) saying a bunch of Japanese stores were returning their Fighter Pass 2 prepaid cards. They’re probably not flying off shelves. I’d be curious as to whether this leads to less sales overall though. Would an exciting announcement fix it? Or have they already lost momentum because people are more likely to buy what they want separately?

I have a feeling it’s the latter for people who aren’t Smash fanatics. I know all of my friends are planning on doing that; I’ll buy the pass when they announce more than one character.

Honestly, I think its partially due to Ultimate being an older game.

A lot of casual players will only support a game for so long.

With how big this game is & how FP1 still created a bunch of gaming headlines, I think it was very possible that FP2 could’ve performed similarly. But they really screwed things over with Byleth & Min Min in succession, followed by no new characters since March (basically). I don’t hate those two, but those aren’t picks that would excite the masses... & they didn’t.

The marketing for this pass is atrocious especially after how miraculous it was for the base game & FP1.

The only way this news drought would make sense is if they come out & say COVID actually messed up development. Or if they cancelled any reveal trailers in progress to create a big CG trailer that reveals everyone else all together, similar to Brawl’s OG trailer with.

I’m going to chalk it up to Nintendo purposely withholding information until they feel like it though.

 

[extremeturkey]

They hated the “your battery level is low” and “you should take a break” prompts from her that, for whatever reason, Nintendo loved to shove into their games around that period. Not Fi. People really liked Fi. Quite a bit more than Navi at the very least and maybe not quite as much as Midna.

No...people hate Fi herself.

Fi has a cool design, and she has a good introduction, a very good theme song, and a nice (albeit unearned) farewell at the end of the game. And that's all she has going for her.

Those don't make up for her flaws..
Not only does she pester you about batteries and taking breaks, which is already bad enough.
She also tells you how to do every single thing no matter how obvious. There are times it's very clear what you must do, but she jumps out of your sword to say "master there is a high probability you should [do thing]" before you can just do it yourself. It's genuinely awful, and it's the main reason people hate her so much.

She has literally no personality by design because she is made to be robotic. At the end of the game she tells you she thinks she feels close to Link, but it means nothing because she never expressed any emotions over the story, she could be replaced with an encyclopedia about the enemies and it wouldn't make a difference.

If Fi had a personality like some other popular Zelda characters, maybe more people would put up with her or even grow fond of her. If she didn't interrupt so much, people would at least not resent her. The idea of a spirit in the sword is a good one, it's just better for the spirit to shut up and not be telling us every 10 minutes to dowse or change batteries or use the new item on an obvious puzzle or whatever else.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

No...people hate Fi herself.

Fi has a cool design, and she has a good introduction, a very good theme song, and a nice (albeit unearned) farewell at the end of the game. And that's all she has going for her.

Those don't make up for her flaws..
Not only does she pester you about batteries and taking breaks, which is already bad enough.
She also tells you how to do every single thing no matter how obvious. There are times it's very clear what you must do, but she jumps out of your sword to say "master there is a high probability you should [do thing]" before you can just do it yourself. It's genuinely awful, and it's the main reason people hate her so much.

She has literally no personality by design because she is made to be robotic. At the end of the game she tells you she thinks she feels close to Link, but it means nothing because she never expressed any emotions over the story, she could be replaced with an encyclopedia about the enemies and it wouldn't make a difference.

If Fi had a personality like some other popular Zelda characters, maybe more people would put up with her or even grow fond of her. If she didn't interrupt so much, people would at least not resent her. The idea of a spirit in the sword is a good one, it's just better for the spirit to shut up and not be telling us every 10 minutes to dowse or change batteries or use the new item on an obvious puzzle or whatever else.

Why was it the bad guy that got the actually cool sword spirit? Ghirahim is pretty much the only thing that keeps the game's plot from being mediocre at best.

 

[Captain Shwampy]

Skyward Sword left no legacy cause its a poor ass game.

 

[extremeturkey]

Everyone has criticisms of Skyward Sword but characters are the last thing that is the problem. The characterization in Skyward Sword is better than 90% of all other Zelda games.

Like Groose, Demise, Ghirahim, Fi, Eldin, Faron, Lanayru, Impa, Batreaux, the list goes on and on

Disagreed.

SS was a game with increased FOCUS on character relationships. But the characters aren't inherently better...

first of all they are very silly for the most part, and that can turn off a lot of people. I love how Groose develops as a character but it's definitely very very cartoony. The game is very anime-inspired, even down to using a high school setting with a bully and a crush. Some people are into that but it's not what I want in a Zelda game at all. Ghirahim is kind of the same thing to me, he feels too anime-like.

Demise is a wholly unoriginal and boring character, there is absolutely nothing interesting about him.
Batreaux is cool.
Impa is great, she has one of the best designs in a Zelda game ever and I love how she protects Zelda but also castigates you for not keeping up.
Eldin/Faron/Lanayru are forgettable and Faron in particular is honestly kind of annoying bc there was no need for her to make Link play tadtones before helping when he had already proven himself to her before then.
Fi has no personality and is probably the most annoying character in the game.

And there are minor characters in the game who are enjoyable, like in every Zelda game.

 

[DarthEnderX]

What would be the worst fighter to add in smash?

Anything Touhou.

realistically it would have to be a duo fighter - two characters operating as one a la Ice Climbers or RosaLuma

I think an Echo could happen as well. Just, the character and their Echo together, like Simon and Richter.

What would your reaction be in the hypothetical scenario where Mipha ended up as the next DLC character?

"Really? The healer? They picked the worst champion."

I want to play the Smash from the alternate universe where Skull Kid was in Melee, Zant in Brawl, Ghirahim in Smash 4, and each Ganonblight in one character is in Ultimate along with Skull Kid, Zant, and Ghirahim.

Cool. I'll keep the one we have now where 4 other franchises got repped instead.

Honestly, one could make a case for Fi in Smash, seeing as she's literally the spirit of the Master Sword, the most iconic item in the franchise sans the Triforce itself.

That everyone was annoyed by and was relieved when she stopped talking forever.

 

[SirBillyBob]

Anything Touhou.

SharkLord would like to know your location.

 

[extremeturkey]

Just add Mavis Beacon into the game. Or at least a Mavis Beacon Teaches Typing stage. Just drop that bomb on everybody, I'd love seeing people's reactions

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Anything Touhou.

May I ask why?

With how you seem to dislike newer things I thought something like Fortnite would be the pinnacle of stuff you hate.

 

[DarthEnderX]

With how you seem to dislike newer things I thought something like Fortnite would be the pinnacle of stuff you hate.

I don't know Fortnite well enough to hate it.

And preference of the old is not automatically hatred of the new.

 

[Shroob]

Anything Touhou.

Oh man the sleeping giant's gonna be real woke when they see this

 

[Cosmic77]

Maybe I shouldn't put the idea in people's heads, but I wonder if people will claim F7 is related to Halloween if we don't get anything this month?

I'm sure at least one person will try to bring up the Spirits LM3 never got and say Gooigi is F7.

 

[Shroob]

Maybe I shouldn't put the idea in people's heads, but I wonder if people will claim F7 is related to Halloween if we don't get anything this month?

I'm sure at least one person will try to bring up the Spirits LM3 never got and say Gooigi is F7.

I would hope people tossed the idea of Holiday reveals out in the trash back during Smash 4 when it was all the rage tbh.


Especially since Holidays have different levels of important in Japan compared to everywhere else.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Personally I love Fi and the cast of Skyward Sword (as well as the game in general).

I understand some of these complaints, but I heavily disagree man.

In many ways, I feel like Skyward Sword succeeds where Breath of the Wild fails.

Ghirahim is pretty much the only thing that keeps the game's plot from being mediocre at best.

Skyward Sword left no legacy cause its a poor ass game.

fite me irl

rite now

ill win cuz my cause is just

 

[SirBillyBob]

Maybe I shouldn't put the idea in people's heads, but I wonder if people will claim F7 is related to Halloween if we don't get anything this month?

I'm sure at least one person will try to bring up the Spirits LM3 never got and say Gooigi is F7.

Spoiler

And they say Animal Crossing can't have a new rep.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Nintendo's 2020 output is mostly revealed now -- except for Pokemon Expansion release & next Smash Bros. fighter.

Super Mario 3D All Stars & Hyrule Warriors: Age of Calamity are the big Nintendo titles for this holiday.

More 3rd-party stuff still to be announced. https://t.co/oTT1xQtpFl

— NateTheHate2 (@NateTheHate2) September 8, 2020

I mean, it makes sense.

BUT ALSO WHEN IS SMASH?!?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

And they say Animal Crossing can't have a new rep.

This is gonna be a picture of Zipper T. Bunny.

This is totally a picture of Zipper T. Bunny.

it's a picture of Jack

Dang it!

 

[Shroob]

Nintendo's 2020 output is mostly revealed now -- except for Pokemon Expansion release & next Smash Bros. fighter.

Super Mario 3D All Stars & Hyrule Warriors: Age of Calamity are the big Nintendo titles for this holiday.

More 3rd-party stuff still to be announced. https://t.co/oTT1xQtpFl

— NateTheHate2 (@NateTheHate2) September 8, 2020

I mean, it makes sense.

BUT ALSO WHEN IS SMASH?!?

real talk who ****ing knows lol. Could be next week, could be bloody November.

 

[DarthEnderX]

real talk who ****ing knows lol. Could be next week, could be bloody November.

If we don't get a reveal until November, it'll definitely be bloody.

 

[Cosmic77]

I would hope people tossed the idea of Holiday reveals out in the trash back during Smash 4 when it was all the rage tbh.


Especially since Holidays have different levels of important in Japan compared to everywhere else.

They could've done a Halloween reveal with Simon and Richter if they really wanted to. Not sure if there will ever be a better fit for Halloween than those two.

Regardless, most characters wouldn't work for a holiday reveal without feeling forced.

Nintendo's 2020 output is mostly revealed now -- except for Pokemon Expansion release & next Smash Bros. fighter.

Super Mario 3D All Stars & Hyrule Warriors: Age of Calamity are the big Nintendo titles for this holiday.

More 3rd-party stuff still to be announced. https://t.co/oTT1xQtpFl

— NateTheHate2 (@NateTheHate2) September 8, 2020

I mean, it makes sense.

BUT ALSO WHEN IS SMASH?!?

 

[Shroob]

They could've done a Halloween reveal with Simon and Richter if they really wanted to. Not sure if there will ever be a better fit for Halloween than those two.

Regardless, most characters wouldn't work for a holiday reveal without feeling forced.

I mean, they could have


But Halloween isn't really a big deal in Japan, so why would they have? It's celebrated sure, but if you're talking about BIG holidays that Japan goes crazy for, you go New Years and Golden Week, not these silly Western holidays like Halloween or Christmas.

 

[TheBeastHimself]

Nintendo's 2020 output is mostly revealed now -- except for Pokemon Expansion release & next Smash Bros. fighter.

Super Mario 3D All Stars & Hyrule Warriors: Age of Calamity are the big Nintendo titles for this holiday.

More 3rd-party stuff still to be announced. https://t.co/oTT1xQtpFl

— NateTheHate2 (@NateTheHate2) September 8, 2020

I mean, it makes sense.

BUT ALSO WHEN IS SMASH?!?

That's okay, there's always room for Mother 3 next year... probably not...

 

[SnowClaws]

Nintendo's 2020 output is mostly revealed now -- except for Pokemon Expansion release & next Smash Bros. fighter.

Super Mario 3D All Stars & Hyrule Warriors: Age of Calamity are the big Nintendo titles for this holiday.

More 3rd-party stuff still to be announced. https://t.co/oTT1xQtpFl

— NateTheHate2 (@NateTheHate2) September 8, 2020

I mean, it makes sense.

BUT ALSO WHEN IS SMASH?!?

Why do people keeps forgetting about the DLC release for Cadence of Hyrule. Especially, since the third DLC pack called "Symphony of the Mask" starts Skull Kid in a playable role in his own very story within the Legend of Zelda spin-off. Either way, this third DLC pack is available sometime in Sept, according to this trailer below that was released today.

Also, Cadence for Smash Fighter Pass 2.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Also, Cadence for Smash Fighter Pass 2.

How DARE you suggest such an inferior shovel-wielding character!

 

[Shroob]

Why do people keeps forgetting about the DLC release for Cadence of Hyrule. Especially, since the third DLC pack called "Symphony of the Mask" starts Skull Kid in a playable role in his own very story within the Legend of Zelda spin-off. Either way, this third DLC pack is available sometime in Sept, according to this trailer below that was released today.

Also, Cadence for Smash Fighter Pass 2.

I don't think anyone forgets as much as someone like Nate considers it a "Smaller" release, like he did the other day in regards to Big news coming "Soon"(The night before BotW HW).



Like, as cool as Cadence of Hyrule is, it is a smaller release all things considered, it's not a big, Triple-A title like Mario, mainline Zelda, Pokemon, Smash etc.

 

[ZelDan]

At this point I'm curious what the "smaller releases are" or what is being considered "small" here. I'm hoping I'll actually end up liking whatever they are more than Mario 3D All stars. despite its issues I'm still really interested in All stars, but at the end of the day it is shinier ports of old games, and the botW HW is whatever to me.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I think it’s funny when people talk about what a legacy games like Majora’s Mask, Wind Waker, and Twilight Princess has when all three of those games were hated for a considerable amount of time after their release.

 

[PLATINUM7]

I think it’s funny when people talk about what a legacy games like Majora’s Mask, Wind Waker, and Twilight Princess has when all three of those games were hated for a considerable amount of time after their release.

Something something Zelda cycle.

 

[GoodGrief741]

No More Heroes III got delayed, and honestly nobody should be surprised given the boatload of nothing we've seen from the game. I'm expecting Bravely Default II to also get delayed because the demo was looking pretty rough, and lo and behold Nintendo went from having their 2020 slate carried by third parties to relying on ports and smaller games.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

W E L P

I have a very important announcement to share today. pic.twitter.com/i4qTdNpYeD

— SUDA51/須田剛一 (@suda_51) September 10, 2020

Travis’s chances most likely dropped significantly now... but also, condolences to the fans who wanted to play this as soon as possible

Most people: Damn this sucks
Me: THIS COUNTS AS NEWS AS WE KNOW SOMETHING NEW LETS ****ING GOOOOO

 

[---]

Am honestly kind of tempted to change the poll on the thread to ask when people think FP8 will be revealed. If it'll be this year or next at this point (would guess a February release). Just like Pokemon's DLC, FP7 feels like it's real close to being announced.

Part of me gets the feeling that Nintendo is trying to space out these announcements week by week right now. Indie Direct -> Mini Direct -> Mario 35 -> Hyrule Warriors -> ?

I'm just hoping we don't get a complete shadow drop. I'd like a warning a day in advance as I feel that would help avoid spoilers better than waking up and seeing the trending news or opening up Youtube and seeing thumbnail spoilers.