Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[SharkLord]

So with the thread back. What are everyone's thoughts on The M Theory?

In all seriousness, can someone give me a rundown on the "M Theory?"

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

In all seriousness, can someone give me a rundown on the "M Theory?"

Basically, if a franchise; logo, gameplay, anything, is shown in a video that video will now be kicked up to that games rating. Meaning the P5 logo being shown will bump that videos age restrictions up to the M-Rated equivalent. So, no more logos.

And Pass 2 is following the trend of no logos so people thinks that means an M-Rated character is inevitable for this pass.

 

[SharkLord]

Basically, if a franchise; logo, gameplay, anything, is shown in a video that video will now be kicked up to that games rating. Meaning the P5 logo being shown will bump that videos age restrictions up to the M-Rated equivalent. So, no more logos.

And Pass 2 is following the trend of no logos so people thinks that means an M-Rated character is inevitable for this pass.

And we're already speculation a lot of characters from games that are partially, usually, or entirely from M-rated series, so... Nothing changes at all.

 

[Powerman293]

In all seriousness, can someone give me a rundown on the "M Theory?"

Some dude on Papa Geno's server found a change in how Smash handled M rate series between the Terry and Byleth videos. This lead to logos being removed from the website and post Byleth characters not having logos alongside their character render in the fighter's pass image. Suggesting that Nintendo hiding the logos means there's at least one M rated character coming at some point.

Not a fan of it but oh well.

 

[Icedragonadam]

Hey it's alive again!

Anyway this new thoery doesn't matter much to me since Hayabusa is one of my predictions anyways. And another one is 2B or Neku.

 

[N3ON]

Some dude on Papa Geno's server found a change in how Smash handled M rate series between the Terry and Byleth videos. This lead to logos being removed from the website and post Byleth characters not having logos alongside their character render in the fighter's pass image. Suggesting that Nintendo hiding the logos means there's at least one M rated character coming at some point.

Not a fan of it but oh well.

The Persona 5 and Bayo 2 logos are still on the website, and those games are very much rated M.

 

[SirCamp]

I really don't think M theory means anything. It's interesting to note, sure. And I wouldn't be surprised if the lack of logos in US presentations is indeed related to ESRB shenanigans, but the conclusion that an M rated character will be in pass 2 just does not follow. If logos of M rated games now affect ratings by the ESRB, I suspect Nintendo would just uniformly decide to not show logos in places where they aren't strictly necessary in the US. That way it becomes a non-issue. It may not be consistent with European or Japanese presentations, but frankly I don't see how that matters.

 

[TwiceEXE]

I really don't think M theory means anything. It's interesting to note, sure. And I wouldn't be surprised if the lack of logos in US presentations is indeed related to ESRB shenanigans, but the conclusion that an M rated character will be in pass 2 just does not follow. If logos of M rated games now affect ratings by the ESRB, I suspect Nintendo would just uniformly decide to not show logos in places where they aren't strictly necessary in the US. That way it becomes a non-issue. It may not be consistent with European or Japanese presentations, but frankly I don't see how that matters.

It's very possible it means nothing. But I wanted to address your statement above. In the Min Min US presentation we saw logos being used; specifically Arms, Tekken and Splatoon. Then we saw Vault Boy. Contrast this to the UK presentation where we saw the former 3 logos and then Fallout. So Nintendo is NOT choosing to not show logos in the US, they are choosing to not show certain logos.

 

[cosmicB]

It's apparently because of some ESRB restrictions. Which is why they could show the Assassin's Creed logo in PEGI regions but not in the US, for example.

Note that this is what I have been told by others. I don't know enough about the ESRB rules to confirm this myself.

I watched the video too, so I'm aware. That's what I'm saying. How does Nintendo going out of their way to rename stuff to avoid an M rating for an ESRB-rated presentation track at all with the idea that an M rated character is coming? How does that not mean the opposite if T is the highest they're willing to go?

Like, what am I not getting here?

 

[TwiceEXE]

I watched the video too, so I'm aware. That's what I'm saying. How does Nintendo going out of their way to rename stuff to avoid an M rating for an ESRB-rated presentation track at all with the idea that an M rated character is coming? How does that not mean the opposite if T is the highest they're willing to go?

Like, what am I not getting here?

Well clearly they are fine with adding content from M rated games, but they are trying to make their videos ESRB compliant. The interesting thing IMO, is the Fighter Pass in the Min Min presentation. (Smashboards is not letting me upload images right now, so forgive me for linking them).

UK vs US

So the thinking is that Nintendo has only changed things regarding Mii Costume logos when it involved an M rated series. Other than that, the UK and US presentations haven't really differed as far as I know. So if the Fighter Pass is being changed for the US it would stand to reason that it's because one of the characters is from an M rated series and they couldn't show that logo on their vids.

It might mean nothing. It PROBABLY means nothing. But I don't care, Dante and 2B are in baybee!!!

 

[TheBeastHimself]

Please let this be the timeline where Conker is the M-rated character announced.

 

[PLATINUM7]

Well clearly they are fine with adding content from M rated games, but they are trying to make their videos ESRB compliant. The interesting thing IMO, is the Fighter Pass in the Min Min presentation. (Smashboards is not letting me upload images right now, so forgive me for linking them).

UK vs US

So the thinking is that Nintendo has only changed things regarding Mii Costume logos when it involved an M rated series. Other than that, the UK and US presentations haven't really differed as far as I know. So if the Fighter Pass is being changed for the US it would stand to reason that it's because one of the characters is from an M rated series and they couldn't show that logo on their vids.

It might mean nothing. It PROBABLY means nothing. But I don't care, Dante and 2B are in baybee!!!

Thank you for posting those images. That has cleared up a lot about where all this is coming from.

 

[SharkLord]

Basically, I think Nintendo doesn't show M-rated titles in Mii Costumes because that might take a bit more licensing and they're not the star of the presentation, so it's just not worth it.

 

[cosmicB]

Well clearly they are fine with adding content from M rated games, but they are trying to make their videos ESRB compliant. The interesting thing IMO, is the Fighter Pass in the Min Min presentation. (Smashboards is not letting me upload images right now, so forgive me for linking them).

UK vs US

So the thinking is that Nintendo has only changed things regarding Mii Costume logos when it involved an M rated series. Other than that, the UK and US presentations haven't really differed as far as I know. So if the Fighter Pass is being changed for the US it would stand to reason that it's because one of the characters is from an M rated series and they couldn't show that logo on their vids.

It might mean nothing. It PROBABLY means nothing. But I don't care, Dante and 2B are in baybee!!!

But what evidence is there that this only refers to Mii costumes? That's what I don't get. If they're so against bumping up the presentation rating, how are they supposed to avoid that when Sakurai is flat out showing footage from an M rated game, much less the logo itself?

And if this truly reflects an ESRB change, that would have happened BEFORE the contents of fighter pass 2 were finalized. Wouldn't a more likely scenario be that, assuming there were M rated characters coming in FP2, that they've since been removed to fit this new policy and swapped out for someone else?

Not that I believe this theory at all in the first place, I just don't see how the logic follows. The only thing that's sort of in the favor of that interpretation is the lack of logos in the American pass display while the rest of the regions still have that, which could just be a consistency thing.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I like how we took a clickbaiter's video which changes literally nothing on speculation as M rated characters were already frequently discussed. Also, maybe I'm missing something but wouldn't this apply to T rated games too as Ultimate's got a lower rating? Not that it matters as characters from T rated games were also commonly discussed beforehand

 

[cosmicB]

I like how we took a clickbaiter's video which changes literally nothing on speculation as M rated characters were already frequently discussed. Also, maybe I'm missing something but wouldn't this apply to T rated games too as Ultimate's got a lower rating? Not that it matters as characters from T rated games were also commonly discussed beforehand

No, because the Min Min presentation was rated E-T because Heihachi showed up. So if we assume this theory is true, then T is the highest Nintendo will go for these presentations.

Not that it matters because this theory is dumb as hell. Most you can kind of see what they're going for even if you have to stretch to see it, but this one is inherently contradictory. And I'm sure someone will actually prop it up as being fact if/when we actually do get an M rated character despite it almost definitely having nothing to do with these factors.

 

[DevaAshera]

And if this truly reflects an ESRB change, that would have happened BEFORE the contents of fighter pass 2 were finalized. Wouldn't a more likely scenario be that, assuming there were M rated characters coming in FP2, that they've since been removed to fit this new policy and swapped out for someone else?

Why would they remove a character only due to not being able to show their logo in a video presentation? That wouldn't make sense..especially since it is only in a single region...if this theory is even true to begin with..

 

[Miles of SmashWiki]

Joker's TGA teaser was shown as E10+ and clearly ended with "Super Smash Bros. Ultimate X Persona 5". I'm sure some kind of legalese or something is behind the omission of the Assassin's Creed and Fallout logos, but the rating isn't it.

 

[TechPowah]

What, like you think they omitted those logos because they had the words Assassin and Fallout, alongside a blatant reference to nuclear warfare, in an E10 rated Nintendo game?

Pshaw, like they would ever do something so strange and unheard of

 

[cosmicB]

Why would they remove a character only due to not being able to show their logo in a video presentation? That wouldn't make sense..especially since it is only in a single region...if this theory is even true to begin with..

Exactly, that's why the theory is dumb. The whole thing relies on a bunch of assumptions and an unconfirmed rumor about an ESRB policy change as a means to explain NoA's weird logo alterations. Then they apply some more confirmation bias to connect it to the missing logos in the overall graphic when there's a decent chance the two have nothing to do with each other.

If this truly is an ESRB thing, then it doesn't point toward any real conclusion. Nintendo has had E-M rated presentations before. It means nothing.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

What, like you think they omitted those logos because they had the words Assassin and Fallout, alongside a blatant reference to nuclear warfare, in an E10 rated Nintendo game?

Pshaw, like they would ever do something so strange and unheard of

Then why is Min-Min rated E10+ to Teen?

I don't think this theory amounts to anything character-wise (I honestly think the logos are still being removed because the American team is being consistent) but at the very least we know something has to be up with the ratings. I suspect that these days the trailers are rated separately from the games they advertise, most likely so they can have a game be rated as good for the kiddiwinks while it's stuffed up the butt with micro-transactions which would need another rating.

 

[Marfae]

The rest of the dlc fighters are gonna be 5 individual Minions who all had character arcs over the course of all 3 Despicable Me movies

 

[Evil Trapezium]

The M theory proves once again that some people think America is the only country in the world.

If you all miss the logos, you can always watch the UK version. It's subbed and everyone knows subbed is better than dubbed.

 

[Cosmic77]

M'kay, so this is the first thing I see after the hiatus? The "Rated-M Theory"?

And here I was, almost excited to be back.

 

[Koopaul]

So it's obvious that the logos for games will raise the rating of a trailer/presentation in the USA. The Min Min presentation is proof of that with Tekken being rated T. This is also obviously the reason why they won't put the Fallout or Asassin's Creed logo either. Simply putting the logo of an M rated game will cause the presentation to be rated M.

Now, does this give us a clue to who is going to be in the fighters pass?

No.

This merely reveals to us that in the US, they have to scrub logos of M rated games from the presentation. That's it. That's all we know. I don't see how that will effect the fighters pass in any way.

 

[N3ON]

What, like you think they omitted those logos because they had the words Assassin and Fallout, alongside a blatant reference to nuclear warfare, in an E10 rated Nintendo game?

Pshaw, like they would ever do something so strange and unheard of

They have to censor the word fallout itself? What is this, the 1950s? Should we practice duck and cover?

The M theory proves once again that some people think America is the only country in the world.

If you all miss the logos, you can always watch the UK version. It's subbed and everyone knows subbed is better than dubbed.

I think you misunderstood the point...
M Theory is being used in attempted deduction. Even if all it does, should it be correct, is basically reinforce an outcome people thought was entirely plausible anyway, being the addition of another M-rated character, it's a bit more involved than people just whining about not being able to see a logo...

I mean that's been the case ever since they added Altaïr from the Altaïr series, and usually the most it elicits is memes and bemusement.

Also it's a bit of a strange time to tell America how highly they think of themselves during an example where they legitimately are the only country missing out on something. Well, them and the other countries on the continent. But it's not like anyone pays attention to them...

 

[Eremurus]

I hope Crash Bandicoot gets in; and that he has a juicy, large bair, and a good projectile, and a kill throw.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

I think you misunderstood the point...
M Theory is being used in attempted deduction. Even if all it does, should it be correct, is basically reinforce an outcome people thought was entirely plausible anyway, being the addition of another M-rated character, it's a bit more involved than people just whining about not being able to see a logo...

I mean that's been the case ever since they added Altaïr from the Altaïr series, and usually the most it elicits is memes and bemusement.

Also it's a bit of a strange time to tell America how highly they think of themselves during an example where they legitimately are the only country missing out on something. Well, them and the other countries on the continent. But it's not like anyone pays attention to them...

I don't think I misunderstood it. I am aware of what M theory is. It's based on the fact that series logos have been removed or changed in the american versions of Smash Presentations in order to prevent a spike in the age rating for future presentations, thus sparking the idea that an M rated character is guaranteed to appear in the Fighters Pass at some point.

The problem with this is that a lot of the Smash fandom is under the assumption that Nintendo of America is more than just a Marketing and localisation division. It's highly likely that this is nothing more than a precaution for characters in the future. For all we know, this pass could be filled with E rated characters. I don't think Nintendo of America knows that much more than we do.

Maybe picking on America was uncalled for and calling out the Smash fanbase is pretty hypocritical on my part but that's just what I see.

 

[ZelDan]

Alot of M-rated characters were being speculated on even before this theory.

It's about as useful as if "sword-wielding character theory" became a thing.

 

[SirCamp]

It's very possible it means nothing. But I wanted to address your statement above. In the Min Min US presentation we saw logos being used; specifically Arms, Tekken and Splatoon. Then we saw Vault Boy. Contrast this to the UK presentation where we saw the former 3 logos and then Fallout. So Nintendo is NOT choosing to not show logos in the US, they are choosing to not show certain logos.

I'm aware of all of that. Still that doesn't actually contradict what I said at all. I said they wouldn't use them where they aren't necessary. I suspect in the direct they would still use them for marketing purposes, when able. But the only evidence that there must be an M rated character in FP2 is specifically the difference you illustrate in the following quote:

UK vs US

The assumption apparently being that, if there wasn't an M rated character in the pass, they would revert the changes made to the US graphic formatting to match that of the one used in the UK. My point is that I don't think that assumption has merit. And, in fact, I would hazard a guess that, even if no M rated character exists in FP2, logos would still be absent in the US graphic if only to maintain uniformity with the previous graphic, post Byleth. It also seems possible it could simply be policy to not include that part of the graphic in the US presentation in order to prevent future problems from slipping through the cracks. I mean if we take the theory at face value, then clearly this part of the graphic caused an unintentional headache in the past. I can easily see them scrapping it for good on that basis alone. And on the other hand I doubt the fact that the graphic differs slightly in the European presentation or the Japanese presentation is even viewed as problematic.

Basically there are a lot of assumptions at play here when we actually start looking at this development as evidence for an M rated character in pass 2. ESRB could very well be the reason for the character names as logos instead of the series name. The same could be said of the logo removal in the FP graphic at the end. After that though, everything else being posited by this theory is much less reasonable imo.

Also yes, as many have already noted, even if this does end up meaning something it doesn't really meaningfully change anything about the speculation scene considering people already figured a number of M rated characters were in contention. Which makes this theory feel all the more useless tbh.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

For a bit of fun, what characters from M-Rated series could you see as Mii Fighters for future shenanigans to happen to?

For Example
Featuring Dante from the Dante series

 

[Calamitas]

Nah, screw all your choices. I want builder Ike now. We don't have a jackhammer-wielding character in Smash yet.

 

[Opossum]

I mean, I actually think this is an incredibly solid theory, even if all it tells us is we're getting an M rated character. It doesn't take a degree in rocket science to see how specifically M rated game logos have been treated since Altaïr and then make the connection to the ESRB.

It just goes to show that this thread kinda throws a hissy fit whenever a new theory is proposed no matter how valid it may be. "Shut up and don't theorize! I only wish to consume product the way Nintendo intended it!"

 

[Garteam]

IMO, it's definitely an interesting find and I do think it's most likely legit (with the only real caveat being the fact that some M-Rated logos are still on the website) but I'm just not entirely sure how much it changes. It could be we're getting an M-Rated character in FP2, but it seems just as likely Joker's logo was the issue and they wanted a uniform layout between Fighter's Pass #1 and #2.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

I think that the problem isn't the logo of the M rated franchises themsleves, but more the name of the franchises. This is why Smash bros X Persona wasn't a problem, but it was with Assassin's creed and Fallout (the world Fallout is a reference to nuclear explosion).

Perhaps, we're looking more to the "game with bad words in the title" theory. Something like Devil may cry could fit that bill I guess.

 

[3BitSaurus]

I think M theory seems interesting for sure - there seems to be very little reason for the US website to not have the series' logos, after all. These changes were put in place around the same time as Byleth's reveal, with the Altair Mii costume.

On the other hand, I can see it being done on FP2 just for convenience's sake (since they had to alter FP1's) and meaning nothing.

If it did point us towards a character from an M-rated game, my money would be on one of these four:

• Dante
• Ryu Hayabusa
• Travis Touchdown
• 2B

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Personally I am suspecting at least one M rated character making the cut. Bets are Travis Touchdown.

 

[Simnm]

I dont see how m theory means anything at all.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I mean, I actually think this is an incredibly solid theory, even if all it tells us is we're getting an M rated character. It doesn't take a degree in rocket science to see how specifically M rated game logos have been treated since Altaïr and then make the connection to the ESRB.

It just goes to show that this thread kinda throws a hissy fit whenever a new theory is proposed no matter how valid it may be. "Shut up and don't theorize! I only wish to consume product the way Nintendo intended it!"

Most, if not all pf ths dismissal I've seen here is about how this changes literally nothing as we've frequently seen discussion on M rated characters, with Travis, 2B, Master Chief and Dante having been rather popular choices in this thread, this theory changes nothing

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Got me thinking tho, what are some more big Japanese M-Rated characters who themselves wouldn't tip the game over into M with their very presence (which would rule out Dead or Alive's cast for the most-part)

There's Travis Touchdown and Dante
2B who may or may not be forced to put on some bike shorts
Ryu Hyabusa from Ninja Gaiden...

I'm sure there's more but I'm blanking.