Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Megadoomer]

If this is true its about time, and i hope its as fun as the gamecube game

It it's true, I hope it's nowhere near as difficult as the Gamecube game. The second level was frustrating enough, seeing as you have to dodge boulders that fall at seemingly random locations while moving at a speed fast enough to beat Samurai Goroh in the race while he's seemingly immune to those boulders, and the Grand Prix races (beyond the first set) aren't much better.

 

[SharkLord]

Hayabusa is embedded into the very DNA of nearly everything Koei-Tecmo does. He was the main crossover character they used to promote Warriors Orochi 3 & 4, he has been a part of their heavy hitting fighting game franchise since day 1 and even started as the protagonist of Dead or Alive 2, he has appeared in games like Nioh or Dynasty Warriors Strike Force, has been considered THE video game Ninja for 2 DECADES, and the name NINJA GAIDEN is iconic as even if you have never played the games it’s almost certain that you’ve heard the name.

It’s being intentionally ignorant to claim that Atelier is larger than Ninja Gaiden when just from sales alone you can tell that’s not true. Let alone the fact that 90% of people hadn’t even heard of Atelier before this leak. And all this is because a character showed up in a leak. As soon as that happens arguments have to be made why this said character is a way better choice than that of another because a leak said so despite nothing really backing that up.

If Atelier gets a character then fine. Awesome. Good for them. But claiming that Atelier is a gargantuan series all of a sudden because one of its characters just showed up in a 4chan leak ain’t it.

Edit: and just putting this out there that “Ninja Gaiden has no future” statement even though purposefully ignoring Dead or Alive and Nioh, is still incorrect.

Yeah, I know. It's just fun to speculate. As far as I can gather, the chances for the KT reps would probably be:
50% Ryu Hayabusa
30% Warriors rep
10% Atelier rep
10% Someone else
Still, it's fun to imagine what it'd be like, with an Atelier rep. Funny how some random, most likely faked 4chan "leak" can introduce you to a new series, huh?

 

[SpectreJordan]

I don’t really see what Nintendo would get from putting Ryza in Smash. It would benefit Koei/the Atelier series way more than it would Nintendo.

Alongside the common theme of being from highly regarded games I posted about earlier; The other third parties either have big fanbases that are now actively looking at Smash/the current Nintendo system (MGS, SF, Persoan, etc...), please the Smash fanbase which increase sales (Mega Man, Castlevania, Banjo) or promote an exclusive that Nintendo is actively invested in (Bayonetta).

The only thing I could see happening to justify Atelier is if Nintendo suddenly becomes invested in those games becoming Switch exclusives. Who knows, that could happen but it doesn’t seem likely.

I’m sorry if it seems like I’m Gate keeping or crapping on the series, it’d just be such a bizarre choice IMO.

 

[Shroob]

I don’t really see what Nintendo would get from putting Ryza in Smash. It would benefit Koei/the Atelier series way more than it would Nintendo.

Alongside the common theme of being from highly regarded games I posted about earlier; The other third parties either have big fanbases that are now actively looking at Smash/the current Nintendo system (MGS, SF, Persoan, etc...), please the Smash fanbase which increase sales (Mega Man, Castlevania, Banjo) or promote an exclusive that Nintendo is actively invested in (Bayonetta).

The only thing I could see happening to justify Atelier is if Nintendo suddenly becomes invested in those games becoming Switch exclusives. Who knows, that could happen but it doesn’t seem likely.

You mean like Joker?


Or Snake in Brawl?


lol

 

[zferolie]

It it's true, I hope it's nowhere near as difficult as the Gamecube game. The second level was frustrating enough, seeing as you have to dodge boulders that fall at seemingly random locations while moving at a speed fast enough to beat Samurai Goroh in the race while he's seemingly immune to those boulders, and the Grand Prix races (beyond the first set) aren't much better.

Oh yeah the story was next to impossible, but the overall gameplay otherwise was super fune

 

[Teeb147]

I don't think the number of games makes too much of a difference, but it is interesting that the Atelier series has over 20 games, not counting the spin offs and remakes (which are quite a few too)

 

[SpectreJordan]

You mean like Joker?


Or Snake in Brawl?


lol

Joker & Snake were surprise picks that had tons of people excited; they got people talking about Smash & the Wii/Switch. Joker in particular had the fanbase super excited about the possibilities of who was in FP1.

Metal Gear Solid DEFINITELY didn’t need any promotion from Smash Bros. Persona 5 really didn’t either.

Atelier would have most people questioning what it is. It wouldn’t gain any new attention from people who aren’t already Smash/Nintendo fans.

Before anyone mentions him, Terry is a beloved fighting game character that brought a lot of attention from Latin American countries to Smash. He’s not on the same level as Atelier lmao

 

[SKX31]

Oh yeah the story was next to impossible, but the overall gameplay otherwise was super fune

The multiplayer in GX also had major limitations (Up to 4 players, no CPUs in multiplayer) due to the GCN having to track all 4 player perspectivess and having to keep the FPS up at a steady rate. EDIT: Saying this because in multiplayer the GX tracks felt more barren than in Grand Prix where all 30 vehicles could be on the track.

It might be a major goal with the next F-Zero game assuming it indeed does exist: 30 persons in multiplayer races, something Mario Kart hasn't come halfway to touching (officially).

 

[Shroob]

Joker & Snake were surprise picks that had tons of people excited; they got people talking about Smash & the Wii/Switch. Joker in particular had the fanbase super excited about the possibilities of who was in FP1.

Metal Gear Solid DEFINITELY didn’t need any promotion from Smash Bros. Persona 5 really didn’t either.

Atelier would have most people questioning what it is. It wouldn’t gain any new attention from people who aren’t already Smash/Nintendo fans.

I mean, this pack started on Min Min.


Maybe I'm keeping my expectations basement-level low, but if Joker was meant to SHOCK AND AMAZE for the first pack, starting the 2nd on Min Min... ain't doing much for me to begin with.

 

[TimidKitsune129]

Okay so, as someone who is not a hardcore fan of Atelier but has played a few of the games, the games largely revolve around gathering materials, whether from the environment, optional quests, or from enemy encounters, and then using alchemy to synthesize items out of those materials. Items one can craft can range from recovery items to items used in battles, such as bombs. A large majority of the protagonists in the series are female, wielding staves as their weapon of choice. They tend to be weak fighters by themselves and have a more supportive role in battles. There’s one thing that sets them apart from other teammates – they are the only ones that can use items. That’s pretty much the gist of the series from what I’ve played.

Honestly, the one thing not making me completely dismiss the leak is the fact that it called Ryza 2. The reason I find that interesting is that Atelier doesn’t tend to do numerical entries. Ever since Atelier Rorona back in 2009, Gust has mainly made these games in trilogies with something in common between them (Atelier Rorona, Totori, Meruru are known as the Arland series. Atelier Sophie, Firis, Lydie & Suelle are known as the Mysterious series, etc.). Characters are recurring within each trilogy, including the protagonist from previous games, but every new entry focuses on a new protagonist. A game in a trilogy having a numeric entry and featuring the same main protagonist is unprecedented.

Of course, this could just be a lucky guess but making up a completely different name would have honestly been a safer thing to do.

And now I am off again for who knows how long. See ya.

 

[cmbsfm]

You mean like Joker?


Or Snake in Brawl?


lol

I don’t think that’s a fair comparison. MGS and Persona are big franchises that have a large non-Nintendo fanbase. If anything those inclusions benefited Nintendo because it brought the attention of those fans to Smash.

 

[SpectreJordan]

I mean, this pack started on Min Min.


Maybe I'm keeping my expectations basement-level low, but if Joker was meant to SHOCK AND AMAZE for the first pack, starting the 2nd on Min Min... ain't doing much for me to begin with.

I think Nintendo choices are much different than when it comes to third party stuff. Nintendo obviously gains something from promoting smaller series that they own. I don’t really see what they would get from doing that for a smaller third party that they have no current involvement with.

Arms also sold 2.5 million copies & was pretty popular for a bit. So it’s not that surprising.

Im not saying this Pass will be full of characters like Joker (I think there’s a chance of 1 or 2 though). But I don’t think Min-Min indicates this will be full of super obscure characters either.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Yeah, I know. It's just fun to speculate. As far as I can gather, the chances for the KT reps would probably be:
50% Ryu Hayabusa
30% Warriors rep
10% Atelier rep
10% Someone else
Still, it's fun to imagine what it'd be like, with an Atelier rep. Funny how some random, most likely faked 4chan "leak" can introduce you to a new series, huh?

I would say
40% Hayabusa
25% Nioh character; William Adams or otherwise
25% Warriors Chracter
10% Someone else

That is IF KT gets a rep I’m almost certain it will be Hayabusa.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

I don’t really see what Nintendo would get from putting Ryza in Smash. It would benefit Koei/the Atelier series way more than it would Nintendo.

That's the point. Koei helps Nintendo with first party releases, Nintendo helps Koei by promoting one of their current series in Smash.

Corporate synergy at its absolute simplest.

Joker & Snake were surprise picks that had tons of people excited; they got people talking about Smash & the Wii/Switch.

You just described every Smash reveal. It's free PR/hype no matter what. Just because Atelier doesn't fit with your preconceived notions about third parties in Smash doesn't mean it's impossible.

I get "you're not trying to gatekeep" but you're absolutely gatekeeping here.

 

[Nemuresu]

I just want to say I barely knew Atelier existed prior to this leak, and I really don't have anything to say other than "well, let's just wait for the trailer if this thing ends up being legit."

 

[Shroob]

I don’t think that’s a fair comparison. MGS and Persona are big franchises that have a large non-Nintendo fanbase. If anything those inclusions benefited Nintendo because it brought the attention of those fans to Smash.

I adore how last page/a few pages ago someone was arguing that Persona was obscure/niche.


The literal duality of man.

 

[cmbsfm]

I adore how last page/a few pages ago someone was arguing that Persona was obscure/niche.


The literal duality of man.

So? I wasn’t the one who said that. I think Persona has entered mainstream popularity. It certainly isn’t niche as Atelier is.

 

[Shroob]

So? I wasn’t the one who said that.

I just found it funny that someone mentioned it being obscure, and like 10 posts later someone calls it mainstream, which it is, it's undeniable after 5 exploded like it did.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Yeah, I mean I like Min Min. Her play style doesn’t really jive with me but I think she’s a cool choice but if this is the heavy hitter for the pass, which I doubt, that would be a ginormous let down.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

I just want to say I barely knew Atelier existed prior to this leak, and I really don't have anything to say other than "well, let's just wait for the trailer if this thing ends up being legit."

No one's arguing for Atelier based on the leak. The leak is simply what got people going "hey, what if Atelier had a chance to be in Sma-"

"No," said the Newcomer Speculation Thread in typical, conversation shut-down mode.

"Okay but like what if-"

"No," the Newcomer Speculation Thread repeated, more forceful then before.

Discussion died down, and the status quo of Speculation remained unbroken.

So how are we all feeling about uuuuuuuh *checks list* a Generation 8 Pokémon?

 

[Evil Trapezium]

I don’t really see what Nintendo would get from putting Ryza in Smash. It would benefit Koei/the Atelier series way more than it would Nintendo.

I'm not a big fan of Ryza myself but you're using the same argument that people used against Banjo & Kazooie. Everyone was saying that "Nintendo wouldn't gain anything from adding Banjo & Kazooie, it would only benefit Microsoft" before their reveal.

 

[Teeb147]

Okay so, as someone who is not a hardcore fan of Atelier but has played a few of the games, the games largely revolve around gathering materials, whether from the environment, optional quests, or from enemy encounters, and then using alchemy to synthesize items out of those materials. Items one can craft can range from recovery items to items used in battles, such as bombs. A large majority of the protagonists in the series are female, wielding staves as their weapon of choice. They tend to be weak fighters by themselves and have a more supportive role in battles. There’s one thing that sets them apart from other teammates – they are the only ones that can use items. That’s pretty much the gist of the series from what I’ve played.

Honestly, the one thing not making me completely dismiss the leak is the fact that it called Ryza 2. The reason I find that interesting is that Atelier doesn’t tend to do numerical entries. Ever since Atelier Rorona back in 2009, Gust has mainly made these games in trilogies with something in common between them (Atelier Rorona, Totori, Meruru are known as the Arland series. Atelier Sophie, Firis, Lydie & Suelle are known as the Mysterious series, etc.). Characters are recurring within each trilogy, including the protagonist from previous games, but every new entry focuses on a new protagonist. A game in a trilogy having a numeric entry and featuring the same main protagonist is unprecedented.

Of course, this could just be a lucky guess but making up a completely different name would have honestly been a safer thing to do.

And now I am off again for who knows how long. See ya.

Hiii.

Well I dont think they're saying it's called Ryza 2. just that it's the second one. But now people are wondering how they called it cuz the second one was found, and yeah it's not '2', it has a longer name.

 

[SpectreJordan]

That's the point. Koei helps Nintendo with first party releases, Nintendo helps Koei by promoting one of their current series in Smash.

Corporate synergy at its absolute simplest.

You just described every Smash reveal. It's free PR/hype no matter what.

Just because Atelier doesn't fit with your preconceived notions about third parties in Smash doesn't mean it's impossible. I get "you're not trying to gatekeep" but you're absolutely gatekeeping here.

The first point could be the reason why Ryza would get in. But at the same time, Ubisoft’s been supporting the Switch & they’ve been relegated to Spirits & Mii Costumes. So it might not really mean that much.

I’m just looking at all of the third parties we’ve gotten so far & comparing them to this potential newcomer. I don’t see much in common. There’s a chance that they decided to focus on smaller, obscure stuff this time to throw a bone to developers/series they want to see make it big. But it’s not likely.

 

[Nemuresu]

No one's arguing for Atelier based on the leak. The leak is simply what got people going "hey, what if Atelier had a chance to be in Sma-"

"No," said the Newcomer Speculation Thread in typical, conversation shut-down mode.

"Okay but like what if-"

"No," the Newcomer Speculation Thread repeated, more forceful then before.

Discussion died down, and the status quo of Speculation remained unbroken.

Not even suggesting that rumour is real or such, just throwing my lil' cent on the whole Atelier topic. I've been always supportive towards the inclusion of brand-new franchises (even if my inclination was and still is towards third-parties), so I wouldn't object to any inclusion until seeing them in action.

 

[SpectreJordan]

I'm not a big fan of Ryza myself but you're using the same argument that people used against Banjo & Kazooie. Everyone was saying that "Nintendo wouldn't gain anything from adding Banjo & Kazooie, it would only benefit Microsoft" before their reveal.

Banjo got in to excite the Smash fanbase & to further sales of DLC.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Atelier can join if it brings this track.

****ING BOPPING! This **** rocks!

 

[Teeb147]

For the point of what nintendo would gain from putting a somewhat 'obscure' character in smash, that entirely depends on the relationship and what the company would offer them. We have no idea what the negotiations have looked like in the back

 

[TheShiningAbsol]

Hiii.

Well I dont think they're saying it's called Ryza 2. just that it's the second one. But now people are wondering how they called it cuz the second one was found, and yeah it's not '2', it has a longer name.

Actually the rating on the ACB has it titled as Atelier Ryza 2: Lost Legends and the Secret Fairy, so while it does have a longer title as well, it actually is kind of Ryza 2.

 

[Teeb147]

Actually the rating on the ACB has it titled as Atelier Ryza 2: Lost Legends and the Secret Fairy, so while it does have a longer title as well, it actually is kind of Ryza 2.

Lol my bad. I guess I can see why it gives it a bit more credit then. ;p

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Ryza could be beneficial to Smash and vice versa because of how niche of a series it is it could help boost sales of Atelier. I’m not denying that, I’m just saying that saying Atelier is all of a sudden a much bigger deal than Ninja Gaiden is kind of just riding the gravy train that is the 4chan leak.

 

[AceAttorney9000]

Plot twist: Smash ends up getting an Atelier character... but instead of Ryza, it's another character who already has a crossover under his belt...

Spoiler: spoiler-ed for size

Sterkenburg Cranach, from the Atelier "Arland" games, and who also made a guest appearance in Warriors Orochi 3 Ultimate.

 

[Sc_Ev0lution]

No one's arguing for Atelier based on the leak. The leak is simply what got people going "hey, what if Atelier had a chance to be in Sma-"

"No," said the Newcomer Speculation Thread in typical, conversation shut-down mode.

"Okay but like what if-"

"No," the Newcomer Speculation Thread repeated, more forceful then before.

Discussion died down, and the status quo of Speculation remained unbroken.

So how are we all feeling about uuuuuuuh *checks list* a Generation 8 Pokémon?

Whenever a character or a franchise first is broached in wider discussion, it always takes time for them to be accepted. Checking my own wants, this time last year people wouldn't have given the time of day to Reimu or a Sakura Wars character (and to a lesser extent KOS-MOS, Raiden, or a BD character), but look at the discussion now: they're not exactly at the forefront but they're largely treated as reasonable candidates. The key is sustained yet polite persistence. If you characterize your wants fairly and explain why others might like them, people will be respectful... eventually

on that note, ahem

We are in desperate need of Age of Empires in Smash. Make sure to support #Arkantos4Smash so everyone's favorite Atlantean admiral joins the fight!

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Ryza could be beneficial to Smash and vice versa because of how niche of a series it is it could help boost sales of Atelier. I’m not denying that, I’m just saying that saying Atelier is all of a sudden a much bigger deal than Ninja Gaiden is kind of just riding the gravy train that is the 4chan leak.

Yeah I don't think anyone's saying this. Just that it's a viable contender next to Ryu.

 

[TimidKitsune129]

Okay, I lied. Just wanted to share some absolute bangers from Atelier. Legit some of my favorite boss fight music ever.

Now I'm off for real

 

[Ura]

so about that email they found for a mario 35th...

GUESS WHAT THE **** ELSE THEY FOUND!!!!!!!!!!!!

There was a problem fetching the tweet

KHDSGJHSDKLHGSDITWERSIOPAE

I DID MY WAITING!!! 16 YEARS OF IT!!!

also id say Black Shadow's chances just went up baby

I really want to believe but I know better in the past decade+ to not get my hopes up for this. Of course, we don't know if that Twitter account is a troll or something among the lines of creating an account months in advance to fool people (like those fake Smash leaks that predict a crapton of characters and then delete their tweets to look legit).

There's also NateDrake, who more or less told us to not get our hopes up too high so like, this is really sketch lol. Either way, i'm (foolishly) hoping this ends up true.

 

[MooMew64]

I think discussing a new candidate is refreshing, honestly. It's nice to see something new be brought to the table rather than repeat how likely we all think a Pokemon is for the hundredth time, lol.

Seriously, though, why are some people here seemingly kinda upset that people are entertaining the idea for fun? The whole point of this thread is speculation.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

so about that email they found for a mario 35th...

GUESS WHAT THE **** ELSE THEY FOUND!!!!!!!!!!!!

There was a problem fetching the tweet

KHDSGJHSDKLHGSDITWERSIOPAE

I DID MY WAITING!!! 16 YEARS OF IT!!!

also id say Black Shadow's chances just went up baby

HOLY MOTHER OF **** NO ****IN WAY

 

[Nekoo]

I like how everyone try to argument for Ryza or Atelier while forgetting the biggest argument that will rack up money if she gets in.

Thighs.

 

[Shroob]

I think discussing a new candidate is refreshing, honestly. It's nice to see something new be brought to the table rather than repeat how likely we all think a Pokemon is for the hundredth time, lol.

Seriously, though, why are some people here seemingly kinda upset that people are entertaining the idea for fun? The whole point of this thread is speculation.

If you go against the wind, you're always going to get bugs in your eyes.

And you'll feel sad

Cause you'll have bugs in your eyes.

 

[Sc_Ev0lution]

As for Ryza herself: she has a fun/cute design, and I'm sure if we've got a dozen swordsmen another spearman couldn't hurt

I'm not exactly the biggest rpg fanatic, but the Atelier game on Switch looks interesting, so maybe I'll check it out...
after I finish Xenoblade... and Xenoblade 2... and Torna... and Valkyria Chronicles 4... and Tales of Vesparia... god, I've got a backlog of really long games, huh