Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[chocolatejr9]

I don't know if this has been brought up, but Source Gaming did a video with Jon from GameXplain about who they think is coming in FP2.

Now I should mention that this appears to be largely opinion based (they mention Super Monkey Ball as a possibility, and act like Tales doesn't have enough legacy to be in Smash).

 

[SKX31]

Speaking of bulky powerhouses, anyone else hoping we get a DLC character that's the opposite sometime this pass?

Like, all the DLC characters so far have been either medium or slow. The only one that's "fast" is Joker and even he's not something like Fox tier in speed/weight and Arsene makes him more of a heavy hitter like most of the others.
I want to see one of these DLC characters with their gimmicks that's built more fully as a lightweight speedy character. Not sure who'd really fit that though out of the commonly requested options.

Shadow is kinda cheating (although he would play faster than at least - yes I'm bitter about Sonic's general playstyle), so:

(As you specified, only going by the commonly requested options)

The primary speedster I'm thinking off is Elma*, who would primarily fight with gunplay and mixing up options. While it does sound like a keep-away character at first glance, remember that has a lot of gunplay and is a rushdown / combo character. Elma might trade Bayo's pure combo potential for other elements such as overwhelming her opponent at the right time.

Dixie would be a semi-speedster a la Diddy - that said, she might play faster than Diddy. Depending on her moves she might lack the trapping potential Diddy has with the Banana Peel and / or she might be less reliant on safe confirms than Diddy is.

Sora has the Shulk-esque potential of shifting into pure Speed if he has access to Form shifting - especially Wisdom Form. He'd also be relatively light, which would mean that for Sora's Wisdom form it'd be incredibly important to weave in and out fast and bait out stuff for him to punish. Dante also has this via his Style-shifting, especially if he shifts into Trickster to - again - weave in and out fast and bait out stuff. Shantae is also in this category. All three (Wisdom Form, Trickster, several of Shantae's transformations) might have similar weaknesses as Shulk's Speed / Jump Arts.

*(Edit: My reasoning for Elma being a speedster is primarily because she would likely be relatively light and she wouldn't have many ways to keep people away outside her gunfire, which might / might not have a lot of hitstun.)

The abbreviation actually does mean something in-series, and I'm actually kinda pissed because it's so overt.

Spoiler: KH Spoilers

Melody of Memories
Master of Masters (confirmed to appear in-game)

Spoiler: Related to the KH Spoilers

Not sure how to feel about that. We're probably getting more Master of Masters material, which is nice, but knowing how KH's story is structured we're likely in for another really strange and convoluted ride.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

>Aiai.
>Tales not having large enough legacy.

Lol ok.

Although I'd be fine with those choices given Elma and Crash.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Well, I guess that's a good question, but we don't know the budget for the second pass.
I honestly don't think Chief would be considerably expensive than Banjo, the exception being if Chief suffers from a similar case to Hero: copyright mess, multiple owners, or something like that, which isn't the case as far as I know.

In any case, if Nintendo wants Master Chief or any other character from Microsoft, I'd assume they would be aware that getting another Microsoft owned IP wouldn't be cheap.

Actually, that's kind of funny. Isn't KH actually less of a copyright mess? Disney owns all the OC stuff, and then you just need music. I'm not sure if Disney owns the specific KH music too, but if they do, it's one case where copyright is a lot easier. SE might not even be paid for a single bit of licensing depending the content, but they're obviously going to be there to help Sora feel "right", and probably a Disney executive to make sure any Disney content would look proper.

It may actually be a lot easier to add than we think. Though with what Tehponycorn said, my theory that Sora wouldn't be licensed just for a Mii costume may actually be less of a valid point. If he's not going to cost that much alone, then it should be pretty easy. Who knows if they'd bother doing that. Most of the costumes in Smash of much bigger characters are from companies already in Smash. And it's debatable how "iconic" they are in this case. Like, the other MegaMan costumes aren't nearly as big as MegaMan himself. We still don't have any from Street Fighter, which still has some big characters only as Spirits(like Chun Li). I'd say something about Namco-Bandai, but they only have one massive icon, being Pac-Man. Heihachi is definitely up there, and he has a costume and a sprite cameo at best. Outside of Namco Arcade stuff, there's small cameos and barely any from other franchises. Are they that easy to work with? Maybe not. There's really no way to tell how "going to a company just for a costume, even a big company and character" can go at this point. We don't have a lot of clear examples of massively big characters getting simply a costume while their company is in. Yet. So... we have no precedent to really say a Sora costume is impossible, unlikely, could go either way, or likely.

 

[Icedragonadam]

I don't know if this has been brought up, but Source Gaming did a video with Jon from GameXplain about who they think is coming in FP2.

Now I should mention that this appears to be largely opinion based (they mention Super Monkey Ball as a possibility, and act like Tales doesn't have enough legacy to be in Smash).

Yeah, about that opinion of theirs........

 

[Opossum]

Leave it to a Nintendo media mouthpiece to be ignorant about third parties lmao.

 

[frozolloyd]

I don't know if this has been brought up, but Source Gaming did a video with Jon from GameXplain about who they think is coming in FP2.

Now I should mention that this appears to be largely opinion based (they mention Super Monkey Ball as a possibility, and act like Tales doesn't have enough legacy to be in Smash).

Okay, I understand everyone has their own opinion on characters, and that's fine, but man that is a seriously big hot take. Like, the Tales of series isn't as big as Tekken per say, but to act like a gaming franchise that has over a dozen mainline titles, a ton of spin offs, a yearly festival and consistently gets animes based of the games doesn't have any sort of legacy whatsoever is absurd.

 

[SnowClaws]

Well, I guess that's a good question, but we don't know the budget for the second pass.
I honestly don't think Chief would be considerably expensive than Banjo, the exception being if Chief suffers from a similar case to Hero: copyright mess, multiple owners, or something like that, which isn't the case as far as I know.

In any case, if Nintendo wants Master Chief or any other character from Microsoft, I'd assume they would be aware that getting another Microsoft owned IP wouldn't be cheap.

The only possible reason for Master Chief not appearing in Smash is if it conflicts with the Halo storyline on where Master Chief was at the time during the stories. This is proven when Team Ninja asks Bungle for the appearance of Master Chief, and they ends up with a original character called Spartan-458 (Nicole). Master Chief could have appears in Dead or Alive 4 if wasn't for that restriction.

Source for the archive.

Now I know Bungle is not in control of Halo anymore, and it is 343 Industries, but 343 Industries is comprised of former Bungle workers and they could ultimately decide whether or not Master Chief can appears in Smash. BTW, do anyone remember the Halo Infinite trailer at E3 2019, and where Master Chief was at the time of the stories? Well, he was in cryosleep in space, and this reason could causes a conflict with him appearing in Smash if this restriction is still in place.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

I don't know if this has been brought up, but Source Gaming did a video with Jon from GameXplain about who they think is coming in FP2.

Now I should mention that this appears to be largely opinion based (they mention Super Monkey Ball as a possibility, and act like Tales doesn't have enough legacy to be in Smash).

> Tales
> Not enough legacy

Yeah I ain't taking this one seriously.

 

[Arcanir]

Yeah, saying that the "Tales of" series lacks legacy is quite a take, even a glimpse at the Wikipedia page would show you that's inaccurate. It's probably a result of them doing the live interview and thus just talking about ideas on the spot without being able to research, but even then they should've been more careful with making statements like that.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

I don't know if this has been brought up, but Source Gaming did a video with Jon from GameXplain about who they think is coming in FP2.

Now I should mention that this appears to be largely opinion based (they mention Super Monkey Ball as a possibility, and act like Tales doesn't have enough legacy to be in Smash).

How would Super Monkey Ball even work in Smash Bros?

They stole Super Mario Bros initial letters. How would we distinguish them from each other?

 

[Garteam]

The Disney elements are to Kingdom Hearts as the tigers are to Tiger King. Both start as the selling point and serve as one of the key elements of the series. However, the longer series goes on, the more they fade to the background as other elements take centre stage. They're never completely gone and they always play some role, but Aladdin and 10 tigers are just less interesting and important than Sora being 6 different people and Joe Exotic running for President.

As such, it's kind of tough to say how "necessary" including outside Disney elements would be to putting Kingdom Hearts in Smash. There's a reasonable argument to be made on both sides of the aisle, IMO. It's definitely true that Disney is a major part of the series' identity and its absence would seem strange if you truly wanted to show what Kingdom Hearts is about. On the other hand, the series has largely outgrown being the Disney-Square jamboree and has enough of a unique identity to be included without Disney. I could really see why some consider it a major issue and others see it as a non-issue.

 

[M@R!3]

Thing is, Sakurai might not just have to ask permission for “Kingdom Hearts”, but for each element specifically. When DuckTales started production, showrunner Frank Angones explained on his Twitter how certain elements were off the table for the team to use, including Mickey but also the Rescue Rangers (who they, for both instances, eventually got permission for how they appear in the show), but I fear that getting Sora might not mean getting the rest of Kingdom Hearts (excluding the overt Disney parts) for relatively little effort. What’s okay with one Disney legal department might not fly with their higher-ups.

In the words of Alex Hirsch:

Disney is big enough to disagree with Disney over what Disney should do about Disney

— Alex Hirsch (@_AlexHirsch) November 15, 2019

Neither Mickey Mouse, nor Chip and Dale were in the original Duck Tales (at least according to Wikipedia), and they support their own individual properties as well. None of Kingdom Hearts characters have gone on to establish their own separate brand or series outside of KH, so I'm not sure how that's an applicable example. Without that individual brand value there's far less reason for different heads at Disney to veto because there's less to protect and potentially gain by doing so. At least not yet, KH is rumored to be getting a TV series, and who knows where that could lead if successful.

On another note, I've had some concerns that some of these upcoming KH projects could end up hurting Sora's chances, but those same projects also have the potential to help him out.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

No offense, but AiAi/Super Monkey Ball would be quite a whack pick in comparison to the rest of Sega's repertoire. In a sea of potential candidates, you choose the one that would probably be the weirdest to transition into a fighting game.

 

[Speed Weed]

No offense, but AiAi/Super Monkey Ball would be quite a whack pick in comparison to the rest of Sega's repertoire. In a sea of potential candidates, you choose the one that would probably be the weirdest to transition into a fighting game.

hey if it means we discuss more sega reps than just arle all the time then fine by me

 

[Schnee117]

No offense, but AiAi/Super Monkey Ball would be quite a whack pick in comparison to the rest of Sega's repertoire. In a sea of potential candidates, you choose the one that would probably be the weirdest to transition into a fighting game.

You know who's tied to Super Monkey Ball?
Toshihiro Nagoshi. Know what he makes?
Yakuza.

Kiryu Pack with Monkey Ball costumes inbound

 

[Faso115]

What a coincidence, i just watched the Nick Robinson video on Monkey Ball's narrator and now we are talking about Monkey Ball.

Hmmm...sounds like interesting idea but like, is AiAi always on the ball? That would be certainly weird

 

[Perkilator]

No offense, but AiAi/Super Monkey Ball would be quite a whack pick in comparison to the rest of Sega's repertoire. In a sea of potential candidates, you choose the one that would probably be the weirdest to transition into a fighting game.

Especially with other more natural candidates for Smash, like Sakura Shinguji or Axel Stone.

 

[SKX31]

How would Super Monkey Ball even work in Smash Bros?

They stole Super Mario Bros initial letters. How would we distinguish them from each other?

Considering that we have Plant Gang already, Aiai shouldn't be impossible.

Most of the moves could come from the party games in 1 / 2 (Aiai replicating the golf shot motion and the ball flinging itself forward like a golf ball). Some of the main game mechanics could carry over decently well, like most basic animations and even some attacks like the dash attack and couple specials.
The problems I have is A) The animations would be obscured if Aiai's ball is enclosed most of the time (I have a similar problem with 's animations - it's difficult to tell them apart in the heat of battle), and B) How shielding would work - especially with an already translucent ball.

Not my favorite SEGA pick, but could see it as a wildcard.

 

[MooMew64]

> Tales
> Not enough legacy

Yeah I ain't taking this one seriously.

Why people gotta do Tales like this.

Tales is cool.

 

[Slime Master]

Where did all this monkey ball slander come from I will fight each and every one of you

 

[Cutie Gwen]

After spending like 5 hours on Bloodstained COTM2 my desire for Miriam has grown even stronger, especially with how there's 3 ****in games in this franchise now all with fantastic music and content to add

 

[AceAttorney9000]

Since we're on the topic of Sega fighters, you know who I think people are really sleeping on right now?

Spoiler

I'm honestly surprised that Ryo (not to be confused with SNK's Ryo) isn't brought up more. If Terry can get in based on how important and influential Fatal Fury and The King of Fighters were to fighting games, I could see Ryo getting in based on how important and influential Shemue was to action-adventure games (plus, he'd be the perfect opportunity to bring in content from Sega's classic arcade games like OutRun, After Burner, and Space Harrier)... and even if Ryo doesn't make the cut, I fully expect Shenmue to be acknowledged in Smash Ultimate in some other way, either through a Spirit Event or music coming with another Sega rep.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

Considering that we have Plant Gang already, Aiai shouldn't be impossible.

Most of the moves could come from the party games in 1 / 2 (Aiai replicating the golf shot motion and the ball flinging itself forward like a golf ball). Some of the main game mechanics could carry over decently well, like most basic animations and even some attacks like the dash attack and couple specials.
The problems I have is A) The animations would be obscured if Aiai's ball is enclosed most of the time (I have a similar problem with 's animations - it's difficult to tell them apart in the heat of battle), and B) How shielding would work - especially with an already translucent ball.

Not my favorite SEGA pick, but could see it as a wildcard.

Well Sakurai has said that no character has been turned down due to moveset issues but it's so hard to imagine Aiai trying to fight inside a ball.

I mean with Piranha Plant you could eventually come to the conclusion that it could have little feet to help it move around but Aiai's ball isn't even made of rubber so you couldn't have his legs push through the Ball to do an aerial attack. I don't know.

 

[Calamitas]

View attachment 278095

Why people gotta do Tales like this.

Tales is cool.

Idk I'm a bigger fan of Eggman

 

[Icedragonadam]

View attachment 278095

Why people gotta do Tales like this.

Tales is cool.

Because it's filled with those pesky Animea Swordsmen!

 

[DanganZilla5]

Talking about Sega reps huh? How about this guy?

In terms of Sega reps I think Arle is the most likely but Kiryu from Yakuza is no slouch either, Axel Stone too.

Here are my most wanted Sega reps:
1. Axel Stone
2. Arle
3. Kiryu
4. Vectorman

Another Sonic rep would be nice but it's gotten to the point where I just accept that we likely won't get another one.

Edit: Ignore the play to win thing. I don't know what that is about.

 

[SneakyLink]

Sega reps?

This is my preferred choice:

Spoiler

For those curious, it’s Asha from Monster World 4.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Talking about Sega reps huh? How about this guy?

View attachment 278098


In terms of Sega reps I think Arle is the most likely but Kiryu from Yakuza is no slouch either, Axel Stone too.

Here are my most wanted Sega reps:
1. Axel Stone
2. Arle
3. Kiryu
4. Vectorman

Another Sonic rep would be nice but it's gotten to the point where I just accept that we likely won't get another one.

>Play to win $25000

Uh... what? Imma need some context

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I find it very strange that Tales doesn't have enough legacy, but Super Monkey Ball, a franchise fans haven't liked since the Game Cube days, does....

 

[DanganZilla5]

>Play to win $25000

Uh... what? Imma need some context

Honestly I don't know what it is about. I just took a random photo from Google images. You can ignore it. It does not have anything to do with the game itself.

 

[SharkLord]

View attachment 278095

Why people gotta do Tales like this.

Tales is cool.

Because it's a Bandai-Namco character that isn't Klonoa. Not saying it isn't cool, but Klonoa takes priority, no exceptions.

 

[Cosmic77]

I don't know if this has been brought up, but Source Gaming did a video with Jon from GameXplain about who they think is coming in FP2.

Now I should mention that this appears to be largely opinion based (they mention Super Monkey Ball as a possibility, and act like Tales doesn't have enough legacy to be in Smash).

Well, they said Zacian would be a cool choice, so...

Anyway, while their comments about Super Monkey Ball and Tales are controversial, I'm not so sure either of those franchises' respective companies are getting a character in this pass. Honestly, I think people are putting too much stock in specific companies getting their fair share of characters instead of looking at each third-party individually and comparing them to all of the other options.

 

[Speed Weed]

gee whiz, i wonder who the owner of the vyse support thread's preferred sega rep is

 

[SKX31]

Well Sakurai has said that no character has been turned down due to moveset issues but it's so hard to imagine Aiai trying to fight inside a ball.

I mean with Piranha Plant you could eventually come to the conclusion that it could have little feet to help it move around but Aiai's ball isn't even made of rubber so you couldn't have his legs push through the Ball to do an aerial attack. I don't know.

There's a party game where the ball opens (Monkey Flight, in both 1 and 2) so Sakurai and co could certainly work off of that. Would it look silly with the halves opened up? Yes, but it can be worked around. (It would help solve both problems too. Not entirely solve the first, but would do a lot for the second)

As for ranking the SEGA reps personally:

1. Arle
2. Kiryu
3. Crazy Total War / Football Manager rep. (All Stars Racing baybee!)
4. New Sonic representative / reworking *
5. Hotsuma (Shinobi)
6. Aiai
7. Ryo (Shenmue)
8. Ulala

All of which I like of the top of my head. I'm sure there are characters I like I missed.

*I've made my dislike for how Sonic plays right now known before, but it bears repeating: the fact that most of his specials is "Roll into a ball" ensures that most Sonics that play the character seriously (online mostly but also elsewhere in tournaments) play a lame style where they A) Charge a move but fake out, B) Sprint away, charge a roll move, then try to bait, C) Attack, sprint away, rinse, repeat. I don't fault the Sonic players for playing like this, it's the most effective, but the design goes against Sonic's generally more aggressive style elsewhere. Give Sonic something else like Boost or whatever else for crying out loud!

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Y'all sleeping on best Sega rep rn

Would also be down with Beat, if mostly for that killer JSR soundtrack.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Y'all sleeping on best Sega rep rn

- appeared with Ryu, Ken, Chrom, Lucina (and Fiora even though she ain’t playable in Smash) in Project X Zone 2
- breaks the fourth wall a lot
- literal best company mascot don’t @ me

welp I need this now

 

[Evil Trapezium]

If Axel Stone is in Fighter Pass 2 I'm voting for Eswat dude next (Or Duke Oda). He's a police guy who gets cool juggernaut armour and shoots with a gun...

... and that's it.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I don't even mind him picking AiAi.

But him picking AiAi, while saying Tales doesn't have legacy is asinine.

 

[Speed Weed]

Y'all sleeping on best Sega rep rn

segata challenger pack that just pulls a terry with sega arcade games let's ****ing go