Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[MooMew64]

you think we'll get Pearl and Marina Mii costumes down the line too? Pearl as a Gunner and Marina as a Swordfighter (cause Marina's preferred weapon is a Brella)

I could see it happening if Octolings make it in. Honestly, even if Octolings didn't make it in, I could still see it happening based off of how popular those two are.

 

[SirBillyBob]

Not sure why a lot of the third party costumes don't come with music on their own. You already paid a little to use the music in their trailer, why not go the full way?

 

[Deleted member]

This thread jumped 10+ pages when I checked it. I need to process somethings before I start throwing out a lot of topics on speculation post-presentation, but I do have somethings to say.

-Spirit promotions can happen now. I can't say I'm all too excited about it since there weren't any spirits that I've been wanting to become playable, so if it turns out Min Min is the only character to make the jump to the fighter, I won't be upset about it.

-I'm expecting at least 1 other 1st Party character to be in Vol 2, but I hope it isn't coming as soon as FP7.

-With Min Min being chosen, now I start to wonder about franchises like Dynasty Warriors and Soulcalibur since they're both similar to ARMS when it comes to the roster. Since Sakurai said the dev of ARMS requested Min Min, it makes me think "Who would the devs of this specific franchise want in Smash?". For example, would Project Soul, the devs behind Soulcalibur, want Mitsurugi since he's a mainstay of the series dating back to Soul Edge and is playable in all the SC games, or would they want Nightmare since he's 1 of the most important characters in the franchise and wields 1 of the most iconic weapons in the games? Would Omega-Force, the devs behind Dynasty Warriors, want Zhao Yun since he's the face of the series, or would they want Lu Bu since he's the most iconic character of the franchise? All I can do now is think.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I think people consider costumes to be "deluxe" when, besides the music, they get fully modeled bodies and head pieces. Sure, Callie and Marie look great and all, but one botched mii can end up making them look pretty funky.

On the flipside, no matter how horrid the mii could be, Sans and Cuphead will always look who they're supposed to be. And now, Vault Boy joins that cause as well. Of course, that isn't to discredit the music. You're getting an extra track for free. But I do think it's only half of the story. Geno 's costume looked great back then, but wouldn't you want one that looks even closer to the original?

I get that, but without the music, it loses the true Deluxe part. The bonus content. I feel that's the defining factor. The rest is more fluff to me in the end.

Anyway, as I said before, I hope to see more Deluxe Costumes. There's a ton of cool music that can be added, especially when a playable character isn't on the table.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Not sure why a lot of the third party costumes don't come with music on their own. You already paid a little to use the music in their trailer, why not go the full way?

is the music in Heihachi's segment actually from Tekken? cause bro that's a BANGER

(pls link it)

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Right now I’m thinking we might get Paper Mario with Geno added as the special Mii Gunner costume.

 

[M@R!3]

I think people consider costumes to be "deluxe" when, besides the music, they get fully modeled bodies and head pieces. Sure, Callie and Marie look great and all, but one botched mii can end up making them look pretty funky.

On the flipside, no matter how horrid the mii could be, Sans and Cuphead will always look who they're supposed to be. And now, Vault Boy joins that cause as well. Of course, that isn't to discredit the music. You're getting an extra track for free. But I do think it's only half of the story. Geno 's costume looked great back then, but wouldn't you want one that looks even closer to the original?

You can botch those miis all you like. I'm just gonna see this.

Spoiler

 

[7NATOR]

is the music in Heihachi's segment actually from Tekken? cause bro that's a BANGER

(pls link it)

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Not sure why a lot of the third party costumes don't come with music on their own. You already paid a little to use the music in their trailer, why not go the full way?

Music for a trailer costs less because there's less royalties, essentially. You pay to have it shown off in a trailer and that's it.

Downloadable music means for every download, the owner of the music gets some royalties. This is probably why it's rarely done.

Though I might be getting the situation wrong.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

why couldn't Heihachi's costume ACTUALLY come with this, THIS shoulda been the deluxe costume this batch... ;-;

 

[SirBillyBob]

I get that, but without the music, it loses the true Deluxe part. The bonus content. I feel that's the defining factor. The rest is more fluff to me in the end.

Anyway, as I said before, I hope to see more Deluxe Costumes. There's a ton of cool music that can be added, especially when a playable character isn't on the table.

Fair enough, and I do agree that we need more Deluxe costumes, if not just for the excuse of getting more music into the game.

 

[AreJay25]

The fact that we aren't getting Tekken music definitely stings

I want to fight to stuff like Emotionless Passion and Moonlit Wilderness, Sakurai, why do you deny me the goods

 

[SharkLord]

Alright, here's the main "leaks"/rumors I know of:
Doujin leak-Alleges Reimu is coming to Smash. If I remember correctly, she was supposed to kick off the pass, but got delayed due to COVID. Also, ZUN is trying to push the series. I don't quite remember the details or if it's deconfirmed or whatnot, it's mostly just been lurking around in the shadows so far.
LoL rep-Claimed there would be a League of Legends character, a Hollow Knight PreMiium, and Trials of Mana Spirits. The latter came true, no word on the other two just yet.
Ness glitch-Apparently there's a glitch involving Ness, and that usually signals a character based on someone else. I know Neku was suggested, and I think Reimu was suggested once based on proportions...? I dunno, this could potentially lead anywhere.
CacoMallow-Probably dead, or at least on it's last legs. Assuming it was playtested around Terry's release, Cacodemon and Mallow would be released around the Byleth-Min Min timeframe. It didn't come with Byleth, despite the sizeable amount of Miis that released alongside them, and Min Min got nothing regarding them either, though we did get a Bethesda costume in Vault Boy. Probably fake, if we get nothing for FP7 it's done for.
Anything I missed?

 

[smashkirby]

So, two things.

1. Does anyone know if it's possible to take on summonable Spirits via the upcoming Spirit replay feature next week (i.e. Birdo, Mona, Jimmy T., DJ Octavio, Dyna Blade, Ribbon Girl, Ninjara, Barbara the Bat, etc.)? According to some leftover data, these Spirits actually had Spirit battles developed that went unused. I guess it would have been a similar case to that of Dixie Kong.

2. Does anyone wonder if Min Min's reveal trailer would/should have acknowledged that she was initially one of Galeem's countless victims in some way? What's more, I just though of something... does this mean Min Min joining Smash takes place AFTER Galeem and Dharkon have been defeated?

 

[SirBillyBob]

You know, I'd be totally down for music packs/stage packs. Yeah, it might not be the full fighter, but sometimes the locales/beats can be enough to satisfy. I'd spend good money on Gen 8 or Cave Story music.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Alright, here's the main "leaks"/rumors I know of:
Doujin leak-Alleges Reimu is coming to Smash. If I remember correctly, she was supposed to kick off the pass, but got delayed due to COVID. Also, ZUN is trying to push the series. I don't quite remember the details or if it's deconfirmed or whatnot, it's mostly just been lurking around in the shadows so far.
LoL rep-Claimed there would be a League of Legends character, a Hollow Knight PreMiium, and Trials of Mana Spirits. The latter came true, no word on the other two just yet.
Ness glitch-Apparently there's a glitch involving Ness, and that usually signals a character based on someone else. I know Neku was suggested, and I think Reimu was suggested once based on proportions...? I dunno, this could potentially lead anywhere.
CacoMallow-Probably dead, or at least on it's last legs. Assuming it was playtested around Terry's release, Cacodemon and Mallow would be released around the Byleth-Min Min timeframe. It didn't come with Byleth, despite the sizeable amount of Miis that released alongside them, and Min Min got nothing regarding them either, though we did get a Bethesda costume in Vault Boy. Probably fake, if we get nothing for FP7 it's done for.
Anything I missed?

Sounds about right.
There was also a Bayonetta glitch but that could mean anything really.

 

[Hinata]

Alright, here's the main "leaks"/rumors I know of:
Doujin leak-Alleges Reimu is coming to Smash. If I remember correctly, she was supposed to kick off the pass, but got delayed due to COVID. Also, ZUN is trying to push the series. I don't quite remember the details or if it's deconfirmed or whatnot, it's mostly just been lurking around in the shadows so far.
LoL rep-Claimed there would be a League of Legends character, a Hollow Knight PreMiium, and Trials of Mana Spirits. The latter came true, no word on the other two just yet.
Ness glitch-Apparently there's a glitch involving Ness, and that usually signals a character based on someone else. I know Neku was suggested, and I think Reimu was suggested once based on proportions...? I dunno, this could potentially lead anywhere.
CacoMallow-Probably dead, or at least on it's last legs. Assuming it was playtested around Terry's release, Cacodemon and Mallow would be released around the Byleth-Min Min timeframe. It didn't come with Byleth, despite the sizeable amount of Miis that released alongside them, and Min Min got nothing regarding them either, though we did get a Bethesda costume in Vault Boy. Probably fake, if we get nothing for FP7 it's done for.
Anything I missed?

Honestly, I still believe Reimu's coming eventually. There was just a lot of stuff pointing to her inclusion, and I feel like not all of it got fully explained away as fake.

Just a gut feeling at this point, honestly, but I still have faith in her.

 

[Megadoomer]

2. Does anyone wonder if Min Min's reveal trailer would/should have acknowledged that she was initially one of Galeem's countless victims in some way? What's more, I just though of something... does this mean Min Min joining Smash takes place AFTER Galeem and Dharkon have been defeated?

It's probably best not to think too hard about that one, considering that this is a game where Mario can rescue a Rock Mario spirit from Galeem/Dharkon while using Mario in a tennis outfit as a spirit equipped to himself.

 

[SharkLord]

So, two things.

1. Does anyone know if it's possible to take on summonable Spirits via the upcoming Spirit replay feature next week (i.e. Birdo, Mona, Jimmy T., DJ Octavio, Dyna Blade, Ribbon Girl, Ninjara, Barbara the Bat, etc.)? According to some leftover data, these Spirits actually had Spirit battles developed that went unused. I guess it would have been a similar case to that of Dixie Kong.

2. Does anyone wonder if Min Min's reveal trailer would/should have acknowledged that she was initially one of Galeem's countless victims in some way? What's more, I just though of something... does this mean Min Min joining Smash takes place AFTER Galeem and Dharkon have been defeated?

Dunno. I know the ARMS Spirits got battles, not sure about the others.
As for the second bit, I would presume so, as the DLC characters so far had no explanation for their return. I think the DLC presence in the Spirits section is just for the sake of extra content.

 

[PK-remling Fire]

Doujin leak-Alleges Reimu is coming to Smash. If I remember correctly, she was supposed to kick off the pass, but got delayed due to COVID. Also, ZUN is trying to push the series. I don't quite remember the details or if it's deconfirmed or whatnot, it's mostly just been lurking around in the shadows so far.
Ness glitch-Apparently there's a glitch involving Ness, and that usually signals a character based on someone else. I know Neku was suggested, and I think Reimu was suggested once based on proportions...? I dunno, this could potentially lead anywhere.

Don't do that.
Don't give me hope.

 

[Will]

Ness glitch-Apparently there's a glitch involving Ness, and that usually signals a character based on someone else. I know Neku was suggested, and I think Reimu was suggested once based on proportions...? I dunno, this could potentially lead anywhere.

Wasn't Bayonetta supposed to mean Twintelle or something based on a glitch that obviously never came to fruition?

 

[Gribbo]

The Fighters Pass was already planned all the way back in early 2018. They obviously had this already set in motion. You're making it sound like Nintendo just irresponsibly threw characters around without thinking about costs.

Also, two years later? Joker was released four months after Ultimate's release, Hero in seven, Banjo in nine and Terry in eleven. The only character that released way over a year later was Byleth.

And yes, I can't call the Pass' success a "risk vs reward", not just because of the DLC's success, but also because Nintendo already did a similar plan with Smash 4. The fact that Ultimate had even more third-party characters in their DLC shows Nintendo was clearly confident in them. Why would they even bother with them if the costs weren't worth it?

Most fighting games up to this point would release even less characters, as Dragon Ball FighterZ seasons have been getting smaller each year. Nintendo, on the other hand, is going with a season bigger than the last one.

I really don't get how you interpreted what I said as accusing Nintendo of irresponsibly throwing characters around without thinking about costs. I said that Fighters Pass Volume 1 could use more money for licensing because having it release so close to the game's launch meant more sales.
When I said two years later, I was referring to the characters in Fighter's Pass Vol. 2. My whole point with the "risk vs reward" thing was that third party characters cost more money to use, but can also bring in more publicity than your average Nintendo character. And if anything, I think having six characters makes it more likely to be more first party-centric because now they have to split the budget across six characters instead of five.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Cacomallow isn't real.

My shortest comment ever!

 

[7NATOR]

Wasn't Bayonetta supposed to mean Twintelle or something based on a glitch that obviously never came to fruition?

The Bayo Glitch was Likely for Min-Min, due to the Similiarites with the Wicked Weaves Smash attacks (which changes Bayo's Apperance for a bit) and Min-Min's Dragon Arm/Arm Switching.

 

[SirBillyBob]

Shouldn't Cacomallow be dead on the basis that the cacodemon costume didn't come with Vault boy, another Bethesda rep?

 

[SharkLord]

Wasn't Bayonetta supposed to mean Twintelle or something based on a glitch that obviously never came to fruition?

I believe earlier in the thread someone noted it matched up with Min Min's down special based on appearance change, which would make sense. I just assumed it was to manage the pseudo-projectile punches.

Don't do that.
Don't give me hope.

I mean, Touhou's a pretty big series. If indies are going to be represented, it's either her or Shantae (Or Steve?, assuming Minecraft can still be considered an indie at this point). Sure, ZUN hasn't been too close to Nintendo, but a Switch port of AoCF is apparently being considered, and ZUN has stated he wants Touhou in Smash. Usually that wouldn't mean much, but considering the Touhou is owned by one guy who's really lenient with the IP, I don't think rights should be too much of an issue.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Shouldn't Cacomallow be dead on the basis that the cacodemon costume didn't come with Vault boy, another Bethesda rep?

It's dead because the video has YET to be pulled whatsoever when Nintendo historically has stomped leaks out, especially video leaks.

I hate to assume, but it seems like that leak is kept around because it hints at Geno or Doom Slayer. It's better to consider it dead rather than think it's alive because it supports what somebody wants imho.

 

[MooMew64]

You can botch those miis all you like. I'm just gonna see this.

Spoiler

View attachment 275829

Brawler Callie is forcing me to learn how to play Mii Brawler.

Why do you torture me like this, Sakurai?

 

[Opossum]

Music for a trailer costs less because there's less royalties, essentially. You pay to have it shown off in a trailer and that's it.

Downloadable music means for every download, the owner of the music gets some royalties. This is probably why it's rarely done.

Though I might be getting the situation wrong.

Kind of but not quite. You're close, but it's actually because those two things are entirely different types of licensing agreements: one type for use in advertising and the other for use in distribution. Though generally you're right that the former tends to be less expensive.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

So, two things.

1. Does anyone know if it's possible to take on summonable Spirits via the upcoming Spirit replay feature next week (i.e. Birdo, Mona, Jimmy T., DJ Octavio, Dyna Blade, Ribbon Girl, Ninjara, Barbara the Bat, etc.)? According to some leftover data, these Spirits actually had Spirit battles developed that went unused. I guess it would have been a similar case to that of Dixie Kong.

2. Does anyone wonder if Min Min's reveal trailer would/should have acknowledged that she was initially one of Galeem's countless victims in some way? What's more, I just though of something... does this mean Min Min joining Smash takes place AFTER Galeem and Dharkon have been defeated?

for #2, likely. though tbh I want Octoling's potential trailer to be like Hero's but with Galeem instead of Dharkon (the light blue aura can symbolize the Sanitized Octarians/Hijacked Agent 3)

And Elma deserves a final battle showdown against Galeem and Dharkon-created phantom puppets... that way, "they really DID crank up the difficulty this time"

Alright, here's the main "leaks"/rumors I know of:
Doujin leak-Alleges Reimu is coming to Smash. If I remember correctly, she was supposed to kick off the pass, but got delayed due to COVID. Also, ZUN is trying to push the series. I don't quite remember the details or if it's deconfirmed or whatnot, it's mostly just been lurking around in the shadows so far.
LoL rep-Claimed there would be a League of Legends character, a Hollow Knight PreMiium, and Trials of Mana Spirits. The latter came true, no word on the other two just yet.
Ness glitch-Apparently there's a glitch involving Ness, and that usually signals a character based on someone else. I know Neku was suggested, and I think Reimu was suggested once based on proportions...? I dunno, this could potentially lead anywhere.
CacoMallow-Probably dead, or at least on it's last legs. Assuming it was playtested around Terry's release, Cacodemon and Mallow would be released around the Byleth-Min Min timeframe. It didn't come with Byleth, despite the sizeable amount of Miis that released alongside them, and Min Min got nothing regarding them either, though we did get a Bethesda costume in Vault Boy. Probably fake, if we get nothing for FP7 it's done for.
Anything I missed?

for Cacomallow, I feel i read somewhere that someone confessed to making the Grinch Leak 2.0 aka Cacomallow. would not suprise me int he slightest if that was the case and it was all some super elaborate mod they didn't disclose the method of replicating until much later

 

[SNEKeater]

10 characters to predict the upcoming fighters? Well, my list isn't very original I guess, but these names are the ones I now feel as somewhat likely.

- Travis
- Crash
- Geno
- Waluigi
- Rex
- Dante
- Lloyd
- Sword & Shield Pokémon

8 names. I have 2 more, but I'm not sure about these two.
- Axel Stone (I feel like Axel could be a potential darkhorse option, sort of like Terry was with the previous pass)
- A Dark Souls character (same reasoning as with Axel)

 

[SharkLord]

It's dead because the video has YET to be pulled whatsoever when Nintendo historically has stomped leaks out, especially video leaks.

I hate to assume, but it seems like that leak is kept around because it hints at Geno or Doom Slayer. It's better to consider it dead rather than think it's alive because it supports what somebody wants imho.

Their inclusion doesn't even rely on the leak. After all, we had a fake Min Min leak a while back, and yet we still got her regardless. Even if CacoMallow's fake, we could still get Geno or the Slayer, right?

 

[Will]

Shouldn't Cacomallow be dead on the basis that the cacodemon costume didn't come with Vault boy, another Bethesda rep?

I just want to know who made the ****ing mod and when they're gonna release it

 

[SirBillyBob]

It's dead because the video has YET to be pulled whatsoever when Nintendo historically has stomped leaks out, especially video leaks.

I hate to assume, but it seems like that leak is kept around because it hints at Geno or Doom Slayer. It's better to consider it dead rather than think it's alive because it supports what somebody wants imho.

Of course, I wasn't denying that part, just that if Ubisoft got Rabbids and Assassin's Creed costumes in one go, why wouldn't Bethesda?

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Their inclusion doesn't even rely on the leak. After all, we had a fake Min Min leak a while back, and yet we still got her regardless. Even if CacoMallow's fake, we could still get Geno or the Slayer, right?

Absolutely, which I why I have to question the fact that folks still rely on it being real or...something.

If your character has to rely on fake leaks, doesn't that say something more?

 

[Nemuresu]

I really don't get how you interpreted what I said as accusing Nintendo of irresponsibly throwing characters around without thinking about costs. I said that Fighters Pass Volume 1 could use more money for licensing because having it release so close to the game's launch meant more sales.
When I said two years later, I was referring to the characters in Fighter's Pass Vol. 2. My whole point with the "risk vs reward" thing was that third party characters cost more money to use, but can also bring in more publicity than your average Nintendo character. And if anything, I think having six characters makes it more likely to be more first party-centric because now they have to split the budget across six characters instead of five.

They're still spending money on third-party licenses in a time where "they won't have as many sales" (which I highly doubt, I just don't expect this second pass to be inferior or a failure in sales) and they're still sharing sales with tons of different companies, hence why I can't see Nintendo becoming more reliant on first-party characters.

 

[M@R!3]

Brawler Callie is forcing me to learn how to play Mii Brawler.

Why do you torture me like this, Sakurai?

I don't think I've ever fought a Brawler controlled by another person, online or locally. Which means it's probably pretty bad.

 

[SirBillyBob]

I just want to know who made the ****ing mod and when they're gonna release it

You'll get your answer if you beat Doom while wearing a mallow hat and blasting the Forest Mushrooms on repeat.

 

[7NATOR]

OH yeah i should do that 10 character list as well

Shadow the Hedgheog
Geno
KOS-MOS or Rex (Okay i cheated here)
Reimu
Scorpion
League of Legends rep
Crash
Isaac
Professor Layton
Lloyd (I guess)

I would Put Dante on here, But I think his Moveset would be too Sexy, in that it be too much stuff that have to be implemented and hard to balance, but i would Really like to be proven wrong, because besides Shadow, he'd be the most exciting addition of all of these.

 

[Will]

Absolutely, which I why I have to question the fact that folks still rely on it being real or...something.

If your character has to rely on fake leaks, doesn't that say something more?

Especially if they're a type of leak that hasn't been done before.

"No one has done this well with CSS editing! It's impossible! Rayman is in!"
"No one has done promo art fake leaks before! It's impossible! Grinch is real!"
"No one has made mods so complex! It's impossible! Cacamallow is real!"

And then sometimes people just try way too hard to disprove something.

"I don't know... Shulk just looks a little too much like Little Mac to me."