Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[PK-remling Fire]

Humanoid mons aren't explicitly bad if they have some kind of in-universe reason to be humanoid. Sirfetch'd having a giant leek could be compared to how many real-life birds collect sticks/objects as a sign of status and showing off to potential mates, albeit real birds don't actually use their sticks to fight each other.

As far as the whole "anthro pokemon" debate goes, for me it's not about how "humanoid" a mon is or whether it wields a certain tool, it's about how much of it is based off of a character archetype. Sirfetch'd from a design standpoint definitely looks more like a creature than a character in that regard, as it's easy to picture a group of them living in the wild with their own distinct personalities outside of one archetype.

You guys are clearly sleeping on the best character idea:

Kart Koopa
Crosses the Finish Line!

Yeah, just a Koopa in a Kart. He uses power ups from the Mario Kart series for his attacks.

Honestly I really dig that idea. The neutral-b can be an item block that gives you better items the more behind you are (though that would be very unbalanced lol)

 

[Cosmic77]

At this point, the topic is just a headache. What could've been a really interesting discussion on how Sakurai could make some really weird Pokemon work in Smash turned into a pointless back-and-forth about definitions.

Honestly, I don't even know why people are so adamant about continuing this. I doubt many of the users arguing against this in the past page or so even care about getting a Pokemon character as DLC anyways.

 

[GoodGrief741]

It is one but the complaints about Incineroar are "waaaah it fights too humanlike", which wouldn't be the case for Decidueye using it's wings to smack stuff around like literally any other bird, but had Decidueye gotten in, we'd still be getting these complaints about Pokemon being too humanlike in fighting style. Add a Staraptor in Smash, we'd still get "Ughhhhh a regular person can do almost every single one of those attacks, it's poorly representing Pokemon!"

Now I understand what you're saying. I dunno, honestly I think there's a subtle but important distinction between two groups of people. One wants Pokemon that don't behave as humanlike, and another wants Pokemon that don't have humanlike proportions at all. I've seen complaints about both things and honestly, I can kinda understand it. To use your example, Incineroar behaves mostly like a human, and so both groups complain about him. Decidueye would play more like his own thing, a tall ghost owl shooting magic arrows. I don't think the first camp would have a problem, but the second still would because Decidueye is still very much an anthropomorphic owl and not something more abstract like, say, Mimikyu.

Or maybe you're right and people are just moving the goalposts and will never be pleased. But, y'know, benefit of the doubt and all that.

You know what this conversation could use? A shift from body types to interesting ideas that a Pokémon could bring. Like uh...We could see Diglett's feet because it'd have to be able to jump and get launched offstage.

...

What? I didn't say it had to be good.

How dare you do my boy like that

Plus we all know that Diglett's bodies reach the center of the Earth, they'd be the first Smash character that can be launched yet can never leave the ground.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

I don't know exactly what I just walked into here,, so, uhh...

...Luxray for Smash.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Add a Staraptor in Smash, we'd still get "Ughhhhh a regular person can do almost every single one of those attacks, it's poorly representing Pokemon!"

And I'd be going: "Shewt. If I could fly and shoot stars out of my arms with 100% accuracy I wouldn't be here right now."

I also don't think that'd really happen though, especially since Staraptor is a regional bird so there's something that it's repping.

 

[Deleted member]

: "Hey, Mario. What's up?"
: "I'mma doing-a great, Sonic!"
: "To think we used to hate each other."

I'm glad someone finally managed to understand that Mario and Sonic are actually like each other and aren't rivals. It bugs me that almost every piece of fan media featuring them represents them as enemies, despite that never being the case in any official crossover.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

And I'd be going: "Shewt. If I could fly and shoot stars out of my arms with 100% accuracy I wouldn't be here right now."

I also don't think that'd really happen though, especially since Staraptor is a regional bird so there's something that it's repping.

Who cares Staraptor is a ****mothering BEAST that doesn't give a flying **** about what it's up against, whenever I played Platinum, I'd always be worried about Candace due to my teams generally being weak to ice, especially as I always had Staraptor and Torterra. Then I remember Staraptor can and will ****ing destroy everything and then it ends up solo-ing the ****ing ice gym. Your fav could never, unless it was also a Staraptor. I even got a shiny one back in the day after looking for a Ditto

But, y'know, benefit of the doubt and all that.

I guess that's what it boils down to, I just don't trust the fanbase who's gone "Please give us a Nintendo DLC character" only to have suddenly gone from promising they'll love it to "EWW WHAT THE **** I HATE IT" every goddamn time

Anyway I'll give a like to whoever unironically makes a Staraptor support thread with a complete moveset and all. I believe in the superior bird

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I'm glad someone finally managed to understand that Mario and Sonic are actually like each other and aren't rivals.

Who says both can't be a thing?

 

[ZelDan]

I'm glad someone finally managed to understand that Mario and Sonic are actually like each other and aren't rivals. It bugs me that almost every piece of fan media featuring them represents them as enemies, despite that never being the case in any official crossover.

you can like eachother and still be rivals.

rivals =/= enemies

 

[PK-remling Fire]

Anyone wonders what if the characters had Mortal Kombat/Injustice like dialogue intros?

: *BLEEP BLEEP
: *BLEEP BLEEP
: *BLEEP BLEEP

 

[PacificFun]

Which old school PS character do you guys think "deserves" to get in more: Crash or Lara Croft?

 

[Pokelego999]

We're all forgetting the best pokemon-Wurmple.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Rivalry isn't a purely antagonistic relationship. Ryu and Ken are fierce rivals but are also the best of bros.

 

[Nekoo]

Nintendo: "Hey- the next Pokémon DLC will take a while to release in FALL, stay tuned."

Also Nintendo: Already give news about this DLC for Today's tweet not even two days after the Pokémon presentation and less than 5 before the next one.

What’s this? Legendary Pokémon bearing strong resemblances to Articuno, Zapdos, and Moltres have been spotted in the Crown Tundra! Recent data suggests that they are, in fact, distinct Galarian variants. #PokemonSwordShieldEX pic.twitter.com/XV5BF4ESfH

— Nintendo of America (@NintendoAmerica) June 18, 2020

 

[GoodGrief741]

Which old school PS character do you guys think "deserves" to get in more: Crash or Lara Croft?

Both. We dealing with legend-tier there.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Then I remember Staraptor can and will ****ing destroy everything and then it ends up solo-ing the ****ing ice gym. Your fav could never, unless it was also a Staraptor.

And here I am temporarilly booting my favorite from the team because there's no way Growlithe could handle Drayden and Marlon's type specialties.

Then again, if power was what I sought after Poochyena would absolutely not be one of my favorites.

Which old school PS character do you guys think "deserves" to get in more: Crash or Lara Croft?

Lara's definitely the more important character in the grand scheme of things, but "deservedness" isn't really a good metric to judge a pick by. Smash is a celebration of all gaming (or at least as much as possible) so good, niche, or mediocre, they all should get some credit.

 

[Opossum]

Which old school PS character do you guys think "deserves" to get in more: Crash or Lara Croft?

Honestly while I hate using that word, they both absolutely have a ton of merit. I don't think they should be seen as "competing" in that sense. They're both juggernauts of the industry who've more than made their mark.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Also Nintendo: Already give news about this DLC for Today's tweet not even two days after the Pokémon presentation and less than 5 before the next one.

To be fair, this is not new information in the slightest.

 

[MooMew64]

Nintendo: "Hey- the next Pokémon DLC will take a while to release in FALL, stay tuned."

Also Nintendo: Already give news about this DLC for Today's tweet not even two days after the Pokémon presentation and less than 5 before the next one.

What’s this? Legendary Pokémon bearing strong resemblances to Articuno, Zapdos, and Moltres have been spotted in the Crown Tundra! Recent data suggests that they are, in fact, distinct Galarian variants. #PokemonSwordShieldEX pic.twitter.com/XV5BF4ESfH

— Nintendo of America (@NintendoAmerica) June 18, 2020

Pokemon sells, it makes sense to push it hard in marketing.

 

[RandomAce]

At this point, the topic is just a headache. What could've been a really interesting discussion on how Sakurai could make some really weird Pokemon work in Smash turned into a pointless back-and-forth about definitions.

Honestly, I don't even know why people are so adamant about continuing this. I doubt many of the users arguing against this in the past page or so even care about getting a Pokemon character as DLC anyways.

Honestly, you just need to word your thoughts better, because I feel that a lot of the time you give off a wrong impression. Start off with a question or say something that is more open for discussion.

Any unusual Pokémon with different body types or unusual fighting styles you want to see explored in Smash?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I personally think the whole humanoid Pokemon argument got strawmanned to death.

 

[toonito]

maybe i'm off but the gist of this recent pokemon argument is:

Smash should include more quadruped, limbless, and pokemon with unconventional body types as opposed to bipeds with human capabilities (ninja, wrestling, archery, soccer, etc.)

 

[Nekoo]

I personally think the whole humanoid Pokemon argument got strawmanned to death.

Honestly this.
A Pokémon is a Pokémon, I don't think Sakurai really though about "oh wow, that one is a humanoid" or not. He just choose one in the option that TPC gives him.

 

[Pokelego999]

Honestly this.
A Pokémon is a Pokémon, I don't think Sakurai really though about "oh wow, that one is a humanoid" or not. He just choose one in the option that TPC gives him.

insert math is math here But in all seriousness, pretty much. TPC probably gives the ones they want to push in marketing, and lo and behold, starters are always at the forefront.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Cinderace might be humanoid but what other character is gonna use fire in a soccer-inspired moveset?

That’s right, Strikers Daisy.

 

[Cosmic77]

Any unusual Pokémon with different body types or unusual fighting styles you want to see explored in Smash?

Dragapult is another Pokemon that I think would be cool. Due to its design, Sakurai would have to get really creative when making aerials and Smash attacks. It could be a projectile-heavy character (something that we don't have much of on the roster) like Villager who uses Dreepy in many of its attacks to keep its distance.

 

[Mr. Robotto]

I'm fine with Sirfetch'd regardless of the absolutely farfetched idea it's too human because it has 4 limbs like every other character in Smash. That being said I would consider buying a second Switch and copy to mod the game if Sirfetch'd got in just for this
View attachment 275207
QUACK TO QUACK!
CRITS COME ARRIVING ON THE MIDNIGHT TRAIN!

Did you really photoshop Sol's hair onto Sirfetch'd just for a silly Guilty Gear joke?

...I'm proud of you

Also, regarding your taste in GG songs

Spoiler: Spoiler

 

[Pokelego999]

Thought I'd mention, by supporters, thread views, replies, etc, the most popular Galar Pokemon appear to be Zacian/Zamazenta, The starter final evos, Toxtrcitity, Sirfetch'd, and Dragapult. I know there's plenty more, but these have the most as a whole.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

Anyone wonders what if the characters had Mortal Kombat/Injustice like dialogue intros?

I'm still holding out for Ridley to end up in Mortal Kombat and land some sick Fatalities/Brutalities.
: *Screeches in "Get over here"*

 

[Knight Dude]

I'm sure there's enough to pull from Crash's entire history to make for an interesting moveset. That said, I know a bit more about Spyro and the various series he could pull BS from to make a moveset. Though I don't think they'd have him use more than one element, he can shoot Ice, Lighting, Earth and Water like he does with Fire depending on the game series.

Ah jeez, I forgot how much they ruined the attack. Still though, Crash's spin would be even faster than that (I believe Mach Tornado still takes about a second from start to end), and he wouldn't be able to achieve any sort of lift (unless there's some spin upgrade I'm unaware of).

Crash 3 has an upgraded spin that lets him fall down slowly.

 

[UberPyro64]

Here, have my current Fighter Pass Vol. 2 Prediction. I swear I change this every couple weeks, lol.

 

[Knight Dude]

tfw speculation talk is dominated by ARMS and SW/SH reps and I'm wondering "but can the Tekken in Smash thing be true"

I can't wait for people to learn that Power is everything.

 

[ROBnWatch]

: *BLEEP BLEEP
: *BLEEP BLEEP
: *BLEEP BLEEP

As a player of both these characters, this just sounds like a regular battle, not a dialogue intro. to the battle.

 

[Megadoomer]

Here, have my current Fighter Pass Vol. 2 Prediction. I swear I change this every couple weeks, lol.

If that was the line-up that we got, I'd be 100% happy with it. Those are all great choices!

 

[Knight Dude]

Rivalry isn't a purely antagonistic relationship. Ryu and Ken are fierce rivals but are also the best of bros.

Mega Man X and Zero are also like that. Terry and Andy(literal brothers). Kind of sorta Dante and Nero. And Sonic and Knuckles in modern titles.

Which old school PS character do you guys think "deserves" to get in more: Crash or Lara Croft?

Both have their merits. One was pretty much the PS1 Mascot that helped to make a Console Juggernaut, and is a rare(but not the other Rare)Western character who was pretty damn popular in the Japanese Market. He's also pretty much the game industry's Taz.

The other was also a PS1 househeld name, who's pretty much is the most famous female protagonist in video games, barring arguably Nintendo's own Samus Aran. She's also more or less the video game equivalent of Indiana Jones.

 

[Garteam]

I feel like a lot of people really aren't understanding what the main point of the "less humanoid Pokemon" argument was.

It wasn't really about Pokemon having humanoid body-types, it was about Pokemon having humanoid combat-style when they get to Smash. Lucario and Greninja are far closer to a dog and a frog than a human in terms of their overall design, but their Smash appearance draws heavily on archetypes common to human fighters. Lucario and Incineroar could be model swapped with a generic marital artist and a generic wrestler with minimal changes needed to make things look natural. Greninja draws enough on being a frog and water Pokemon in its moveset to not be immediately swappable with a generic ninja, but changing him to a human would be still be pretty easy, as the ninja element is the clearly the core theme of that moveset. That's not to knock those characters, but it's a little annoying when it's all that a series filled with animalistic monsters can get.

That's what I think Cosmic is getting at when he calls Sirfetch'd humanoid. It's a cartoon duck, it's obviously not a human. However, its primary fighting style involves utilizing a sword and shield, two very human weapons. Its learnset largely of slashes and its signature move is a jousting stab. Unless Sakurai were to really lean into the duck aspect of Sirfetch'd, he would end up feeling like less the duck abandoned Duck Hunt and more like Toon Link accidentally grabbed Adult Link's Master Sword on his way out the door.

Conversely, if a Pokemon with a very humanoid build but a very unhumanoid fighting style were to join Smash, I don't think anyone would really mind them joining. Let's say, for example, Game Freak introduces a Psychic Type Pokemon that's styled after a mannequin who fights by detaching its limbs and hitting people with them using psychic powers. Despite having a very humanoid silhouette, I'd argue that's not a very humanoid fighter because humans can't freely detach their limbs to use as weapons. Likewise, I'd argue that Pokemon would make a nice change of pace as far as Pokemon in Smash goes, because it would feel like the series is finally leaning back into the monstrous part of Pocket Monsters.

 

[Knight Dude]

I'm not too terribly invested in the Pokemon stuff, but I can see the idea of trying to add a 4-legged or "normal" bird Pokemon. Still, I don't care too much if something is on two legs and has a human-ish fighting style like Ninjutsu or Wrestling, I think that makes them standout among other Pokemon. But hey, if Staraptor or Houndoom can make for a good fighting game character, I'm down for that. Granted, I'd much rather have Amaterasu or Spyro if that were the case.

Hell, I'm more interested in seeing how to implement more Gun-based fighters, I feel like that has a lot more to work with since, by comparison we've got plenty of fist fighters and sword fighters, and even they have tons of styles and gimmicks not seen yet.

There's a lot of stuff I outright disagree with Cosmic77 about. ESPECIALLY our views on 3rd party characters. But I do think we can be kind of quick to antagonize him.

 

[Pokelego999]

I'm not too terribly invested in the Pokemon stuff, but I can see the idea of trying to add a 4-legged or "normal" bird Pokemon. Still, I don't care too much if something is on two legs and has a human-ish fighting style like Ninjutsu or Wrestling, I think that makes them standout among other Pokemon. But hey, if Staraptor or Houndoom can make for a good fighting game character, I'm down for that. Granted, I'd much rather have Amaterasu or Spyro if that were the case.

Hell, I'm more interested in seeing how to implement more Gun-based fighters, I feel like that has a lot more to work with since, by comparison we've got plenty of fist fighters and sword fighters, and even they have tons of styles and gimmicks not seen yet.

There's a lot of stuff I outright disagree with Cosmic77 about. ESPECIALLY our views on 3rd party characters. But I do think we can be kind of quick to antagonize him.

What kind of views, just wondering? No I'm not trying to ignite a flame war.

 

[Cosmic77]

I'm not too terribly invested in the Pokemon stuff, but I can see the idea of trying to add a 4-legged or "normal" bird Pokemon. Still, I don't care too much if something is on two legs and has a human-ish fighting style like Ninjutsu or Wrestling, I think that makes them standout among other Pokemon. But hey, if Staraptor or Houndoom can make for a good fighting game character, I'm down for that. Granted, I'd much rather have Amaterasu or Spyro if that were the case.

Hell, I'm more interested in seeing how to implement more Gun-based fighters, I feel like that has a lot more to work with since, by comparison we've got plenty of fist fighters and sword fighters, and even they have tons of styles and gimmicks not seen yet.

There's a lot of stuff I outright disagree with Cosmic77 about. ESPECIALLY our views on 3rd party characters. But I do think we can be kind of quick to antagonize him.

At least you're taking the effort to understand what's been said.

Even if we don't agree, I do appreciate you trying to say it in a way that's more civil instead of a more hostile approach that's the equivalent of, "I'm right, you're wrong. I'm smart, you're dumb."

 

[Knight Dude]

What kind of views, just wondering? No I'm not trying to ignite a flame war.

Cosmic isn't too huge on 3rd parties, and doesn't want to just add characters willy-nilly for the sake of expanding the crossover. He's also into Pokemon and wants to see more crazy stuff from that series, hence why this conversation started in the first place.

For me, I got like 90% of the Nintendo characters I happen to like. So I'm all for branching out and potentially getting more cool game characters like Jin Kazama or Ryu Hayabusa. Or even expanding already represented third party franchises, presuming hell freezes over of course. I would totally pop-off if Mega Man X, Chun-Li or Knuckles got added to the game. Heck, even Zero would be cool. And while I'm not the biggest fan of his, I do still like him, just less so than most Mega Men.

Then again, both of us seem like to like the ARMS character, or the idea of one, so we can at least agree on that.