Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[SneakyLink]

Regarding Cynthia. Its interesting to note she has no Spirit.

That could be something going for her.

None of the humans (bar the playable trainers) have a spirit though, so it means nothing.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

None of the humans (bar the playable trainers) have a spirit though, so it means nothing.

I apparently overlooked that.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

That's not a humanoid! That's a mistake!

It don't got a torso though. It's more like Kirby with thunder thighs.

how dare you insult stonjourner like that i will not accept such blasphemy

where my stonjourner boys at

 

[Souless_shadow]

how dare you insult stonjourner like that i will not accept such blasphemy

View attachment 275210

where my stonjourner boys at

Stonjourner is one of the best gen 8 Pokemon and anyone is free to fight me about it

 

[Megadoomer]

Regarding Cynthia. Its interesting to note she has no Spirit.

That could be something going for her.

None of the trainers have spirits aside from the playable ones, though, and those two trainers are some of the few characters that just use their Smash renders for Fighter Spirits as opposed to official artwork.

I'm not sure if it's an issue with the original illustrator, or the Pokemon Company, or Game Freak, but for whatever reason, they seem really finicky about Pokemon illustrations in Smash.

EDIT: 'd

 

[Goombaic]

I'm not sure if it's an issue with the original illustrator, or the Pokemon Company, or Game Freak, but for whatever reason, they seem really finicky about Pokemon illustrations in Smash.

But the SwSh spirit event had the Sugimori artwork so who even knows at this point.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I apparently overlooked that.

Nintendo: "Silly Michael. You thought Pokémon's human cast actually mattered."
Also Nintendo: *hides Pokémon Masters behind their back and whistles*

where my stonjourner boys at

Crushed under the weight of the fact that it has the dumbest looking design of all of the "it's literally a living rock" Pokémon even though Carkol exists.

...

Why are there so many awful pun names in Gen 8? I thought we left those behind after Gen 1's Seel.

EDIT: Never mind, I was trying to look up the name and got an item. Carkol is much better as a name. Not great, but better.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

That's not a humanoid! That's a mistake!

It don't got a torso though. It's more like Kirby with thunder thighs.

The criteria for humanoid is 2 arms and 2 legs according to the people who started this debate so Stonehedge Lad is humanoid

 

[Deleted member]

Stonjourner is one of the best gen 8 Pokemon and anyone is free to fight me about it

It looks cool and I love how its based on Stonehenge, but the thing has such low Special Defense that it can practically be one-shot by Bubble.

 

[Cosmic77]

Other users have already explained it fairly well. This isn't an issue of looking like a human or just walking on two legs. There plenty of Pokemon who walk on all fours, fly, or don't even have appendages like arms or legs. People want to see Sakurai do something that would require a little more creativity and imagination, not a Pokemon who has enough human qualities to where making a moveset is something that could be done effortlessly.

Seems like a lot of people are arguing about the definition of "human-like", which wasn't really the point of the conversation. When people say they want a Pokemon who's less human-like, I don't think their minds instantly go to Rillaboom, a Pokemon who's based off an animal that's already extremely similar to a human, or Sirfetch'd, a Pokemon that looks very similar to a real duck but resembles most humans when it fights with its sword. They want something a little more difficult and unorthodox.

 

[SneakyLink]

But the SwSh spirit event had the Sugimori artwork so who even knows at this point.

One thing about Pokémon artwork is that, bar Detective Pikachu, Lets Go, Sw/Sh, and the trainers all the artwork is from Pokémon Global Link, which was unsupported with Gen 8 and shut down this past February.

But artwork for the Gen 8 Pokémon in the Link style supposedly exist on merch so...

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

One thing about Pokémon artwork is that, bar Detective Pikachu, Lets Go, Sw/Sh, and the trainers all the artwork is from Pokémon Global Link, which was unsupported with Gen 8 and shut down this past February.

But artwork for the Gen 8 Pokémon in the Link style supposedly exist on merch so...

Doesn't a lot of the Ken Sugimori artwork predate Pokémon Global Link though?

EDIT: That and all of the base spirits have their Dream World artwork which is also a depreciated online feature. The whole thing's just weird.
EDIT EDIT: Or maybe it just stopped supporting the Gen 5 games?

 

[Goombaic]

One thing about Pokémon artwork is that, bar Detective Pikachu, Lets Go, Sw/Sh, and the trainers all the artwork is from Pokémon Global Link, which was unsupported with Gen 8 and shut down this past February.

But artwork for the Gen 8 Pokémon in the Link style supposedly exist on merch so...

That artwork certainly exists. I really doubt that was the reason for the art source change.

 

[Cosmic77]

It's true. They use it on most of the plushies.

Spoiler

At the bare minimum, the Gen 8 Pokemon with Spirits still have artwork that would be a better fit than what they actually got. Not sure why they didn't just use this from the very beginning because it definitely existed back then, but who knows?

 

[Pokelego999]

Fun Fact: Pokemon Trainer and Robin are the only two fighters who use their Smash Artwork in their spirits. Robin is because they had no artwork outside of Heroes, which looks to be off limits for some reason, but Trainer has Firered and Leafgreen artwork ready to go. It's just wierd.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Fun Fact: Pokemon Trainer and Robin are the only two fighters who use their Smash Artwork in their spirits. Robin is because they had no artwork outside of Heroes, which looks to be off limits for some reason, but Trainer has Firered and Leafgreen artwork ready to go. It's just wierd.

"Anata wa watashi no koto o wasureta yōdesu..."

 

[SneakyLink]

Fun Fact: Pokemon Trainer and Robin are the only two fighters who use their Smash Artwork in their spirits. Robin is because they had no artwork outside of Heroes, which looks to be off limits for some reason, but Trainer has Firered and Leafgreen artwork ready to go. It's just wierd.

Cloud and Wii Fit Trainer also only use Smash artwork for their fighter spirits. The former likely because rights, the later because I’m not sure any artwork exists of the trainers (even the spirits of their poses are the Smash models)

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Fun Fact: Pokemon Trainer and Robin are the only two fighters who use their Smash Artwork in their spirits. Robin is because they had no artwork outside of Heroes, which looks to be off limits for some reason, but Trainer has Firered and Leafgreen artwork ready to go. It's just wierd.

You forgot Cloud and Wii Fit Trainer.

 

[Perkilator]

You guys are clearly sleeping on the best character idea:

Kart Koopa
Crosses the Finish Line!

Yeah, just a Koopa in a Kart. He uses power ups from the Mario Kart series for his attacks.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

You guys are clearly sleeping on the best character idea:

Kart Koopa
Crosses the Finish Line!

Yeah, just a Koopa in a Kart. He uses power ups from the Mario Kart series for his attacks.

It's incomplete without it's Double Dash partner.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Other users have already explained it fairly well. This isn't an issue of looking like a human or just walking on two legs. There plenty of Pokemon who walk on all fours, fly, or don't even have appendages like arms or legs. People want to see Sakurai do something that would require a little more creativity and imagination, not a Pokemon who has enough human qualities to where making a moveset is something that could be done effortlessly.

Seems like a lot of people are arguing about the definition of "human-like", which wasn't really the point of the conversation. When people say they want a Pokemon who's less human-like, I don't think their minds instantly go to Rillaboom, a Pokemon who's based off an animal that's already extremely similar to a human, or Sirfetch'd, a Pokemon that looks very similar to a real duck but resembles most humans when it fights with its sword. They want something a little more difficult and unorthodox.

Idk man, by calling Sirfetch'd too humanoid, that makes way for any bird getting added only to go "Well a person can flap their arms and do the same thing, so this doesn't count as a nonhumanoid"

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Idk man, by calling Sirfetch'd too humanoid, that makes way for any bird getting added only to go "Well a person can flap their arms and do the same thing, so this doesn't count as a nonhumanoid"

Yeah he's missing the big picture here. Sirfetch'd wouldn't be like the humanoid fighters at all.


It'd be Meta Knight with a shield.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Idk man, by calling Sirfetch'd too humanoid, that makes way for any bird getting added only to go "Well a person can flap their arms and do the same thing, so this doesn't count as a nonhumanoid"

Wasn't aware of any birds carrying giant vegetables as swords and shields. Nature truly is magical.

 

[Pokelego999]

Cloud and Wii Fit Trainer also only use Smash artwork for their fighter spirits. The former likely because rights, the later because I’m not sure any artwork exists of the trainers (even the spirits of their poses are the Smash models)

Forgot those guys, my bad.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Is this whole human debate happening just because Cosmic doesn't know what "anthropomorhic" means?

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

They just tweeted AGAIN about the new paper Mario

low key hope it’s the last time

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Wasn't aware of any birds carrying giant vegetables as swords and shields. Nature truly is magical.

Well by that logic Kirby's humanoid too because he can do that as well.

Is this whole human debate happening just because Cosmic doesn't know what "anthropomorhic" means?

We could still have the conversation even if he did: Literally all Pokémon are anthropomorphic since they are humanized by being given intelligence that's more comparable to humans.

 

[zeldasmash]

Ok so new idea, the last character you played as in any game is coming to Smash, doesn't matter if it's a licensed game or anything either, who's the lucky character? In my case, Wacky Wahoo Pizza Man from DMC3

: I told you that one day I'd be big enough to fight you again!
: Let's-a go!
:WAHAHA!

:"Really darling, how often do you have to be rescued?"
:"Enough to learn how to take care of myself!"
:"We'll see~"

: "Today is your end, witch."
: "You won't get the chance, Belmont."
: "The Grand Cross will make sure I do."

: "We meet again, Captain."
: "You got your chance. Make it count."
: "I won't fail this time."

: "A fellow soldier."
: "EX-SOLDIER."
: "Once a soldier, always a soldier, rookie."

: "We used to dominate."
: "YOU USED to dominate, pipsqueak."
: "I still dominate, Snake."

: "We finally meet, Mario."
: "It is an honor to meet-a you, Ryu."
: "The honor is all mine."

: "Did you manage to drive off Sigma?"
: "It took a while. How about you with Eggman?"
: "Lemme show you how I cracked him open."

: "I'll beat you this time."
: "Here's hoping you put up more of a fight."
: "Here's hoping you last more then a few seconds."

: "I've never liked you, Sheik."
: "I gave you coffee in the Halberd."
: "You still cracked my Arwing and they don't come cheap."

 

[Cosmic77]

Idk man, by calling Sirfetch'd too humanoid, that makes way for any bird getting added only to go "Well a person can flap their arms and do the same thing, so this doesn't count as a nonhumanoid"

Gwen, I know you're smart enough to understand the point me and other people are trying to get across.

No one wants to have a page-long arguement about the true definitions of "humanoid", "human-like", and "biped". If people think Sirfetch'd is too human, I'm gonna take a wild guess and say that it has something to do with it running around on two legs and using its upper arms to attack with weapons used primarily by humans.

Some Pokemon clearly have fewer human qualities than others, and this goes far beyond appearance. I doubt anyone would genuinely try to argue that Sirfetch'd, Wooloo, and Yamper are all the same, despite all three having a design that's very similar to their real-world counterparts.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Wasn't aware of any birds carrying giant vegetables as swords and shields. Nature truly is magical.

Idk man, we all know that if FP7 was a nonhumanoid who was still bipedal we'd get whining that it's too humanoid. Just like when people went "If we must have third parties, they need to be revolutionary, iconic and habe strong Nintendo history", "We just want a Nintendo newcomer as DLC", etc only to go "No not that one" when being given something that describes it. If Decidueye got in over Incineroar and it's normals had it beat it's wings instead of wrestling moves, we'd still have "Where are the nonhumanoids"

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

If a duck holding a sword and shield with its wings is "too human", I guess Zacian is out too.

After all, as a human, I can hold a sword with my mouth and move on all fours if I wanted to.

 

[Schnee117]

If you want a humanoid duck Pokemon then Golduck is right there, calling Sirfetch'd one just because it has a sword and shield is just being foolish for the sake of it.

 

[GoodGrief741]

**** nevermind I totally misremembered how Sirfetch'd looks.

Idk man, we all know that if FP7 was a nonhumanoid who was still bipedal we'd get whining that it's too humanoid. Just like when people went "If we must have third parties, they need to be revolutionary, iconic and habe strong Nintendo history", "We just want a Nintendo newcomer as DLC", etc only to go "No not that one" when being given something that describes it. If Decidueye got in over Incineroar and it's normals had it beat it's wings instead of wrestling moves, we'd still have "Where are the nonhumanoids"

I honestly don't see how Decidueye isn't a humanoid.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I honestly don't see how Decidueye isn't a humanoid.

Gwen never said Decidueye wasn't humanoid.

Literally the opposite of that, actually.

Gwen's point was that if Decidueye was there instead of Incineroar, people would still whine about the fact that it's humanoid.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Idk, Kirby's bodyshape is much more different from a human's than Sirfetch'd's. There's a difference between Sirfetch'd and, like, Ho-Oh.

Well one can grasp objects in its wings but they're both foul.

...

I mean, I assume Ho-Oh's a big rainbow chicken.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Gwen never said Decidueye wasn't humanoid.

Literally the opposite of that, actually.

Gwen's point was that if Decidueye was there instead of Incineroar, people would still whine about the fact that it's humanoid.

Well, yeah, that was the point. Some people want non-humanoid Pokemon. I assume, different people from those who want Decidueye.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Also, the very idea that a bird can't get in because the fact that it holds human weapons as it fights makes it "too human" is literally mocking perfection itself.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Gwen, I know you're smart enough to understand the point me and other people are trying to get across.

No one wants to have a page-long arguement about the true definitions of "humanoid", "human-like", and "biped". If people think Sirfetch'd is too human, I'm gonna take a wild guess and say that it has something to do with it running around on two legs and using its upper arms to attack with weapons used primarily by humans.

Some Pokemon clearly have fewer human qualities than others, and this goes far beyond appearance. I doubt anyone would genuinely try to argue that Sirfetch'd, Wooloo, and Yamper are all the same, despite all three having a design that's very similar to their real-world counterparts.

You're right, I am smart enough to see you and others go "We want nonhumanoids but that nonhumanoids doesn't count"

Idk, Kirby's bodyshape is much more different from a human's than Sirfetch'd's. There's a difference between Sirfetch'd and, like, Ho-Oh.

I honestly don't see how Decidueye isn't a humanoid.

It is one but the complaints about Incineroar are "waaaah it fights too humanlike", which wouldn't be the case for Decidueye using it's wings to smack stuff around like literally any other bird, but had Decidueye gotten in, we'd still be getting these complaints about Pokemon being too humanlike in fighting style. Add a Staraptor in Smash, we'd still get "Ughhhhh a regular person can do almost every single one of those attacks, it's poorly representing Pokemon!"

 

[Schnee117]

Also, the very idea that a bird can't get in because the fact that it holds human weapons as it fights makes it "too human" is literally mocking perfection itself.

View attachment 275216

This is the ideal humanoid body, you may not like it but this is what peak performance looks like

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

You know what this conversation could use? A shift from body types to interesting ideas that a Pokémon could bring. Like uh...We could see Diglett's feet because it'd have to be able to jump and get launched offstage.

...

What? I didn't say it had to be good.