Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Brindor]

Jesus Christ i want a new Smash Bros Character reveal already, I've resorted to reading more Smash Bros fanfiction then ever to keep the desire away

 

[DarthEnderX]

That poll is explicitly asking which character you would LIKE to see and even if we want to pretend 100% of the people who voted misinterpreted the poll it still doesn't change the fact that the conversation is completely dominated by Springman. Nobody was talking about the poll until it was time to try to prove my post wrong.

Or maybe it's because the thread discussion is just as much about character wants as it is about character likeliness, and you're just ignoring half the discussion.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Jesus Christ i want a new Smash Bros Character reveal already, I've resorted to reading more Smash Bros fanfiction then ever to keep the desire away

Worry not, more likely its either gonna be this or next week. I suspect the 16th at the latest.

 

[Wunderwaft]

inb4 we get the reveal and release at the same day on June 30

 

[Cosmic77]

The poll at the top shouldn't be taken too seriously. Even though quite a few people voted for who they want most, there's quite a few who voted for who they think is most likely. There's also a difference between voting for your favorite character and voting for who you want in Smash. I imagine quite a few people voted for Spring Man and Ribbon Girl because they believe they're the best characters to represent ARMS.

 

[weallfloatdownhere7]

Something big I think we’re all missing... isn’t there always some scheduled maintenance leading up to a Smash reveal? Assuming the Arms character is revealed and released simultaneously, we would likely know of some sort of online maintenance taking place soon. But as of right now, there’s nothing. Which leads me to believe it probably won’t be this week

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Something big I think we’re all missing... isn’t there always some scheduled maintenance leading up to a Smash reveal? Assuming the Arms character is revealed and released simultaneously, we would likely know of some sort of online maintenance taking place soon. But as of right now, there’s nothing. Which leads me to believe it probably won’t be this week

I think that’s for when they’re downloadable? I don’t recall

 

[weallfloatdownhere7]

Worry not, more likely its either gonna be this or next week. I suspect the 16th at the latest.

Doubtful it’ll be next week with the Pokémon dlc dropping then

I think that’s for when they’re downloadable? I don’t recall

Like I said, assuming they’ll be revealed and released simultaneously (which is what the original teaser seemed to suggest) we’d likely know about it by now if it was happening this week

 

[Zem-raj]

W/C 15/06/2020 The first expansion pack, Isle of Armor, releases for Pokémon Sword and Pokémon Shield (17/06/2020).
I don't think Nintendo would have any Super Smash Bros. content that week, since it would take away the attention from Pokémon's DLC.

W/C 22/06/2020 Nintendo have the 80th Annual General Meeting of Shareholders event (26/06/2020).
Nintendo doesn't usually do Nintendo Directs or special videos in the same weeks as shareholders/financial briefings.

So it's either this week, or they're pushing their luck and doing it on the 29th June / 30th June.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Like I said, assuming they’ll be revealed and released simultaneously (which is what the original teaser seemed to suggest) we’d likely know about it by now if it was happening this week

I don’t think there’s always maintenance, but I don’t remember for sure.

edit: I just recall there sometimes being maintenance and people jumping the gun since it wasn’t related to DLC or Smash. But I don’t remember every event preluding characters’ releases last year nor Byleth’s this year, though I get the feeling Byleth probably didn’t come after Smash maintenance, likely just general online maintenance based on Google.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

W/C 15/06/2020 The first expansion pack, Isle of Armor, releases for Pokémon Sword and Pokémon Shield (17/06/2020).
I don't think Nintendo would have any Super Smash Bros. content that week, since it would take away the attention from Pokémon's DLC.

W/C 22/06/2020 Nintendo have the 80th Annual General Meeting of Shareholders event (26/06/2020).
Nintendo doesn't usually do Nintendo Directs or special videos in the same weeks as shareholders/financial briefings.

So it's either this week, or they're pushing their luck and doing it on the 29th June / 30th June.

I hope you're right.


Or if there isn't anything this week, I hope you're wrong.

 

[Digital Hazard]

Jesus Christ i want a new Smash Bros Character reveal already, I've resorted to reading more Smash Bros fanfiction then ever to keep the desire away

So I just went to FF.net to try to reply to this statement with a joke, buuuuuuuut...

 

[Rie Sonomura]

So I just went to FF.net to try to reply to this statement with a joke, buuuuuuuut...

View attachment 274150

>Arceus
>ARCEUS

...okay then

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Doubtful it’ll be next week with the Pokémon dlc dropping then

Here's to an announcement tomorrow or Wednesday then.

 

[SKX31]

So I just went to FF.net to try to reply to this statement with a joke, buuuuuuuut...

View attachment 274150

I mean, Hero relies somewhat on RNGesus. so I guess that explains it?

W/C 15/06/2020 The first expansion pack, Isle of Armor, releases for Pokémon Sword and Pokémon Shield (17/06/2020).
I don't think Nintendo would have any Super Smash Bros. content that week, since it would take away the attention from Pokémon's DLC.

W/C 22/06/2020 Nintendo have the 80th Annual General Meeting of Shareholders event (26/06/2020).
Nintendo doesn't usually do Nintendo Directs or special videos in the same weeks as shareholders/financial briefings.

So it's either this week, or they're pushing their luck and doing it on the 29th June / 30th June.

That sounds plausible.

It does beg the question of whether or not FP7 will be revealed at the same time as the ARMS character. It feels a bit too uncertain for me when Nintendo can do whatever with their reveals (Origami King being a standalone reveal for example*). I could see FP7 being revealed together with ARMS, yes, but it's also possible that FP7's reveal is instead July or August.

*(Marking this with an asterisk since one could make the argument that Origami King could be revealed before a normal E3 too. Like the March mini-Direct)

 

[Garteam]

I'm gonna be honest, the idea of Min Min replacing Spring Man as the mascot of ARMS 2 doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

Within gameplay, you want the character that most new players gravitate towards to also be the most vanilla and well-rounded of the bunch. That way, new players can get a feel for all of the mechanics the game has to offer when they're learning the ropes. Once they're comfortable with the game's general mechanics, they can then experiment with various characters to match their own strengths and weaknesses. Most often, the character the players will gravitate towards is the one who appears on the game's marketing or has the most overall visibility within the general public, so they're often the one's to get the "baby's first character" treatment. It's why Mario fulfills this role in virtually every game where he's playable amongst a larger cast. Most people know who he is through cultural osmosis, so new players who are unfamiliar with the extended cast are most likely to pick him, making him a great character to design for beginners.

In the case of ARMS, there's no question Spring Man is this character. In addition to appearing on almost every piece of marketing, he has completely average stats with no glaring weaknesses, the three most standard types of ARMS in his default weapon set, and a largely non-intrusive gimmick. He's perfect for getting players accustomed to the gameplay of ARMS. Min Min, on the other hand, is comparatively more complex. Her stats are a little more lopsided and her default ARMS are far more complex to use than Spring Man's. If Min Min became the protagonist in ARMS 2, they would either have to dumb her down and risk alienating her playerbase from ARMS 1 or keep her complex and risk alienating new players who intuitively pick her up because they believe she's an easy starting point. Neither outcome is very desirable, so it makes a lot more sense from a gameplay perspective to give Spring Man as the series' mascot.

 

[Eldrake]

So I just went to FF.net to try to reply to this statement with a joke, buuuuuuuut...

View attachment 274150

Oh that's just Three after Arceus trains him to harness the power of Ultra Instinct.

 

[Cosmic77]

I'm gonna be honest, the idea of Min Min replacing Spring Man as the mascot of ARMS 2 doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

Within gameplay, you want the character that most new players gravitate towards to also be the most vanilla and well-rounded of the bunch. That way, new players can get a feel for all of the mechanics the game has to offer when they're learning the ropes. Once they're comfortable with the game's general mechanics, they can then experiment with various characters to match their own strengths and weaknesses. Most often, the character the players will gravitate towards is the one who appears on the game's marketing or has the most overall visibility within the general public, so they're often the one's to get the "baby's first character" treatment. It's why Mario fulfills this role in virtually every game where he's playable amongst a larger cast. Most people know who he is through cultural osmosis, so new players who are unfamiliar with the extended cast are most likely to pick him, making him a great character to design for beginners.

In the case of ARMS, there's no question Spring Man is this character. In addition to appearing on almost every piece of marketing, he has completely average stats with no glaring weaknesses, the three most standard types of ARMS in his default weapon set, and a largely non-intrusive gimmick. He's perfect for getting players accustomed to the gameplay of ARMS. Min Min, on the other hand, is comparatively more complex. Her stats are a little more lopsided and her default ARMS are far more complex to use than Spring Man's. If Min Min became the protagonist in ARMS 2, they would either have to dumb her down and risk alienating her playerbase from ARMS 1 or keep her complex and risk alienating new players who intuitively pick her up because they believe she's an easy starting point. Neither outcome is very desirable, so it makes a lot more sense from a gameplay perspective to give Spring Man as the series' mascot.

ARMS is a boxing game at its core, which is why Spring Man makes sense as the mascot. Even if he's not the most popular character, you can put him on the front of ads and boxart and make it pretty clear what kind of game ARMS is supposed to be.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

One point I haven’t seen on the ARMS discussion is that when it comes to visible and tangible popularity, Twintelle also has a point to make by being a character added to the Global Testpunch through sheer fan demand and subsequently being in the demo version of ARMS along with Spring Man, Ribbon Girl, Ninjara and Master Mummy.
Min Min of course won party crash, but as others has noted, how reliable is that as a popularity contest when it has a tournament format with a side focus on skill?

 

[Speed Weed]

W/C 15/06/2020 The first expansion pack, Isle of Armor, releases for Pokémon Sword and Pokémon Shield (17/06/2020).
I don't think Nintendo would have any Super Smash Bros. content that week, since it would take away the attention from Pokémon's DLC.

W/C 22/06/2020 Nintendo have the 80th Annual General Meeting of Shareholders event (26/06/2020).
Nintendo doesn't usually do Nintendo Directs or special videos in the same weeks as shareholders/financial briefings.

So it's either this week, or they're pushing their luck and doing it on the 29th June / 30th June.

remember when people said terry wouldn't release before the 15th as not to overshadow swsh's release

how are we in almost the exact same situation and still trying to argue this

EDIT: oh wait you meant only that specific week, nevermind then

 

[Phoenixio]

W/C 15/06/2020 The first expansion pack, Isle of Armor, releases for Pokémon Sword and Pokémon Shield (17/06/2020).
I don't think Nintendo would have any Super Smash Bros. content that week, since it would take away the attention from Pokémon's DLC.

W/C 22/06/2020 Nintendo have the 80th Annual General Meeting of Shareholders event (26/06/2020).
Nintendo doesn't usually do Nintendo Directs or special videos in the same weeks as shareholders/financial briefings.

So it's either this week, or they're pushing their luck and doing it on the 29th June / 30th June.

I think people are putting too much stock on Pokemon being competition for Smash. It's a console war, not a franchise war. If people talk about Nintendo, be it for Smash or for Pokemon, they can coexist. And anyways, being June, most companies will be pushing out some content to compensate for E3's cancellation, so skipping a full week just because Pokemon has a DLC (and not even a main game) would be unnecessary, I think.

And with ARMS' aniversary that week too, it'd be a perfect time for them to release the DLC and bring attention to Smash, from within the ARMS community.

 

[Goombaic]

There's nothing that's stopping Nintendo from advertising two games with big audiences at once. Didn't Smash 4 (Wii U) and ORAS release on the same day?

 

[EricTheGamerman]

I'm gonna be honest, the idea of Min Min replacing Spring Man as the mascot of ARMS 2 doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

Within gameplay, you want the character that most new players gravitate towards to also be the most vanilla and well-rounded of the bunch. That way, new players can get a feel for all of the mechanics the game has to offer when they're learning the ropes. Once they're comfortable with the game's general mechanics, they can then experiment with various characters to match their own strengths and weaknesses. Most often, the character the players will gravitate towards is the one who appears on the game's marketing or has the most overall visibility within the general public, so they're often the one's to get the "baby's first character" treatment. It's why Mario fulfills this role in virtually every game where he's playable amongst a larger cast. Most people know who he is through cultural osmosis, so new players who are unfamiliar with the extended cast are most likely to pick him, making him a great character to design for beginners.

In the case of ARMS, there's no question Spring Man is this character. In addition to appearing on almost every piece of marketing, he has completely average stats with no glaring weaknesses, the three most standard types of ARMS in his default weapon set, and a largely non-intrusive gimmick. He's perfect for getting players accustomed to the gameplay of ARMS. Min Min, on the other hand, is comparatively more complex. Her stats are a little more lopsided and her default ARMS are far more complex to use than Spring Man's. If Min Min became the protagonist in ARMS 2, they would either have to dumb her down and risk alienating her playerbase from ARMS 1 or keep her complex and risk alienating new players who intuitively pick her up because they believe she's an easy starting point. Neither outcome is very desirable, so it makes a lot more sense from a gameplay perspective to give Spring Man as the series' mascot.

I'm not sure ARMS has quite the depth and complexity to necessitate the "well rounded" fighter outright like with most other fighting games. ARMS relies on the core different types of arms themselves to spice up the admittedly very shallow gameplay, and that's a largely universal concept across the fighters. Min Min can use standard boxing gloves just as easily as Spring Man, and Spring Man can use her dragon arms as well. It blurs the lines a bit more than most other fighters where there a much more highly technical characters and gameplay mechanics across fighters. While the characters do have some individual differences, they all revolve around the same core moveset with no variation outside of the arms that are chosen themselves for the fight, which are also shared by the whole roster. Depth of gameplay was arguably one of ARMS' weakest points in its debut outing specifically because it didn't really manage much variation due to the inherent limitations of how it played.

If ARMS 2 does more to actually give players more options across the board and more unique to each fighter, I'd be able to agree more easily, but as it stands now, I fully expect the ARMS character in Smash to just use all kinds of different arms for different attacks anyway. As it stands now, the lack of depth actually works in favor of any number of changes they want to make to the ARMS roster. If Min Min becomes the more recognizable and marketable face of ARMS, she doesn't exactly have to be tuned a ton and her iconic arms are still a perfectly valid option considering, again, the ARMS themselves are largely so interchangeable.

 

[MooMew64]

Really don't think what's releasing in a given week matters for the reveal. Nintendo drops different things around each other all the time; especially when said different products have entirely different audiences.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I mean, there's not even a competition for me, because I have the season passes for both games. So I get the content no matter when they release it.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

So who is y'alls' left field pick prediction for #77?

 

[Rie Sonomura]

So who is y'alls' left field pick prediction for #77?

Sticking to my Neku guns. Yes I know what Tansut said (Not Smash) and I don’t care. For all we know he just didn’t KNOW of Neku being in smash or not. After all, leak security has tightened supposedly

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Oh! I just notice you have surpassed 10,000 messages. Congratulations Rie Sonomura you're a Smash Legend now.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

So who is y'alls' left field pick prediction for #77?

Hoping: Crash Bandicoot
Predicting: Paper Mario or Rayman

 

[DarthEnderX]

So who is y'alls' left field pick prediction for #77?

I mean, it's not left field, but Hayabusa.

Gimmie da 'busa!

 

[Heoj]

So who is y'alls' left field pick prediction for #77?

Going with Geno for 77

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Going with Geno for 77

Same here. #77

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Definitely won't lie if it is Geno, I'll be thrilled and excited even though he's not one of my most wants, mostly given how curious I am of how he'd play.

 

[SneakyLink]

So who is y'alls' left field pick prediction for #77?

Otto Matic will always be my preferred left field pick.

That reminds me, I should post the moveset I made up the other day to this thread soon.

Maybe after the ARMS reveal...

 

[SKX31]

So who is y'alls' left field pick prediction for #77?

I'm gunning for either a smaller scale third party (KOS-MOS, Amaterasu, Phoenix) or a fighting game rep if #77 is scheduled for EVO Online (small chance there, but still - Heihachi or Scorpion).

 

[DarthEnderX]

Definitely won't lie if it is Geno, I'll be thrilled and excited even though he's not one of my most wants, mostly given how curious I am of how he'd play.

TIMED...HITS!

 

[Evil Trapezium]

So who is y'alls' left field pick prediction for #77?

I'm gonna say Travis Touchdown. I have a feeling from Sakurai's wording (from his famitsu interview about the Second fighters pass) that these 6 fighters are just extras that it's going to be somewhat lower budget than the first one. We'll probably see more smaller third party characters join Smash Bros.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I'm not sure ARMS has quite the depth and complexity to necessitate the "well rounded" fighter outright like with most other fighting games.

While it may not be on par with other fighting games, ARMS absolutely has a luring curve. Especially with the Joy-Cons this game doesn't really play like anything else, so new players are learning something completely new even if they've had experience with even arena fighting games. Having such a basic character allows the player to learn the controls before learning a character.

Min Min can use standard boxing gloves just as easily as Spring Man, and Spring Man can use her dragon arms as well. It blurs the lines a bit more than most other fighters where there a much more highly technical characters and gameplay mechanics across fighters. While the characters do have some individual differences, they all revolve around the same core moveset with no variation outside of the arms that are chosen themselves for the fight, which are also shared by the whole roster.

You wouldn't sit down with a first time player and let them pick the Dragon, Glorb, Skully or Shield on their first match without letting them know that they're weird right? Min Min's Ram Ram and Megawatt ARMS could probably serve as decent beginner ARMS, but what the player is going to gravitate to are the Dragons, which are not good beginner ARMS, especially if the player decides to dual wield them (because why have one dragon when you could have two dragons?). The Dragon relies on controlling space rather than direct attacks, and that's too advanced for someone who's still trying to learn the game.

ARMS's simplicity doesn't translate to beginner friendliness. Min Min and Ninjara are often seen as just simple modifiers on Spring Man and Ribbon Girl, but these characters' differences make a huge difference in terms of learnability. For example, Spring Man's gimmicks and stats allow for new players to do ok with him without even worrying about them (in fact, they can even help them without the player even noticing), which allows them to learn the game instead. He even has a comeback factor so he can't be steamrolled as easily. Ribbon Girl's mechanics rely on jumping, which is something a new player is going to want to do. That extra mobility can help the player understand better how movement works within the game. To contrast, Ninjara's non-visual ability is his poof shield (TM) that allows him to counterattack more easily. It also relocates you (and by extension your camera), and first time (and even veteran) players can easily get mixed up when it happens. Min Min is less egregious, but her deflect kicks are much different than Spring Man's deflect ring in that you have to make a conscious effort to use them. Combine that with the management of her dragon ARM (which first time players may not even figure out what triggers it) and there's a lot more to worry about than just the game.

Also, I'd like to make one thing clear. While everyone's moveset is the same, their properties are not. Not even close. You can see that some characters revolve around a particular set of skills, but the idea that they're all the same is straight up B.S. Master Mummy can't move around very much, and dodging attacks is pretty much a no go for him. Meanwhile Lola Pop can block in the air, jump real high or real far away out of shield, and Mechanica and Dr. Coyle can fly. Speaking of Dr. Coyle, she can also turn invisible, and summon a third ARM to pummel her opponents. Not different enough for you? Byte & Barq has to manage a little dog (Barq) that can get disabled if punched. This is important because Barq not only lays constant pressure on your opponent, but it also is Byte's main source of mobility. Or how about Misango, who has to manage his little familiar, and use the little guy's different powers at the right time, the first of which lowers mobility for an unflinching status, the second dramatically increases mobility, and the third does nothing except make your Rush Attack invincible on startup. And then there's Helix with his non-intuitive movement that allows him to bob and weave like no other. However, he also has trouble getting around, especially in the air because he doesn't take to the skies like a normal character, instead stretching his body out for more bobbing and weaving.

So TLDR, simple != intuitive, and the ARMS characters are absolutely not all the same. "They all punch you" is about as disingenuous as saying "they all go back and forth trying to hit the other person" to describe the characters in another fighting game.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

TIMED...HITS!

Sakurai: "Here's Geno as a playable character"
Geno fans: *get aggressively excited*
Sakurai: "He has timed hits as his gimmick haha"
Geno fans: *drop him after a month due to being unable to make him work due to the atrocious gimmick*

 

[RouffWestie]

So who is y'alls' left field pick prediction for #77?

My best guess is Cinderace since announcing it for Smash would, by pure coincidence, line up with the Gen 8 DLC release.