Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Scoliosis Jones]

im sick of seeing the stupid protag/mascot argument

It'd be kinda nice to not call something stupid, y'know?

Come up with an argument to refute it then rather than insulting people who see it as a demonstrated possibility backed by precedent.

Sorry, but since I was called "stupid" for box leak, I don't really appreciate that anymore.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

im sick of seeing the stupid protag/mascot argument

Well given the pattern throughout Smash of those always coming first when it comes to an new series, its not exactly an fan rule tbh.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Springtron as well since he's based on Springman so he'd technically be a main character. It's a pretty big reach but considering this is ARMS, it'd be easy to grab those straws.

That one I'd call an actual stretch. Spring Man and Ribbon Girl are kind of main characters for the franchise, but they aren't canon protagonists for the story mode. I'm sure someday they'll give an official route for story mode at some point, so the true protagonist may be set. But whether it's canon for the game itself is another story. They do clearly make Spring Man a protagonist in a non-canon story, but that doesn't count for ARMS' own story mode. Unless it's actually canon and I missed it. If it canon, that's at least 3 main characters(Spring Man, Max Brass, Dr. Coyle). Springtron being a clone of a main character in that context doesn't necessarily make him a main character either. Possibly a supporting one instead.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

That one I'd call an actual stretch. Spring Man and Ribbon Girl are kind of main characters for the franchise, but they aren't canon protagonists for the story mode. I'm sure someday they'll give an official route for story mode at some point, so the true protagonist may be set. But whether it's canon for the game itself is another story. They do clearly make Spring Man a protagonist in a non-canon story, but that doesn't count for ARMS' own story mode. Unless it's actually canon and I missed it. If it canon, that's at least 3 main characters(Spring Man, Max Brass, Dr. Coyle). Springtron being a clone of a main character in that context doesn't necessarily make him a main character either. Possibly a supporting one instead.

Like I said earlier, it's not really that Spring Man or Ribbon Girl are protagonists. But given they are on the cover, and Spring Man was center stage in the promo trailers upon reveal, they're about as close to "mascots" as one can get.

At least, that's my perspective when it comes to "mascot or protagonist first". But you already know what I've been blabbing about, lol.

 

[Glaciacott]

no official story that supports a canon route for Story Mode at this time.

Maybe someday they'll announce a canon route, but it does not exist at this time.

Well, after the party crash bash victory for Min Min we have official art with Min Min holding the Arms championship belt. Maybe that should tell us the canon story route is Min Min becoming the canon champion of Arms.
The narrative of Arms ended with the last party crash bash, and much like with Splatoon splatfests, the narrative isn't just doing the main game story but also the events shaped around the game.

This is what people keep forgetting about Min Min and the party crash bash. It keeps being reduced to just a popularity contest, where instead it can easily be interpreted as a story-impactful event that defines a specific character as the in-game winner. An event that by crazy random happenstance concluded almost exactly a year ago right around the time when the Arms fighter likely began conception.

 

[Goombaic]

Well given the pattern throughout Smash of those always coming first when it comes to an new series, its not exactly an fan rule tbh.

Assist trophies and spirits not being playable is a well established pattern, too, so that isn't a fan rule either, is it?

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Assist trophies and spirits not being playable is a well established pattern, too, so that isn't a fan rule either, is it?

Regardless fact remains, when an new series in introduced the protagonist or mascot always comes first for the roster.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Don't get me wrong; I am utterly convinced ARMS pick will be Spring Man or Min-Min. I just happen to think Spring Man has the edge.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Well, after the party crash bash victory for Min Min we have official art with Min Min holding the Arms championship belt. Maybe that should tell us the canon story route is Min Min becoming the canon champion of Arms.
The narrative of Arms ended with the last party crash bash, and much like with Splatoon splatfests, the narrative isn't just doing the main game story but also the events shaped around the game.

This is what people keep forgetting about Min Min and the party crash bash. It keeps being reduced to just a popularity contest, where instead it can easily be interpreted as a story-impactful event that defines a specific character as the in-game winner. An event that by crazy random happenstance concluded almost exactly a year ago right around the time when the Arms fighter likely began conception.

While this does make Min Min a more plausible pick, the most I expect from her is to take Max Brass's place as the final destination for Arcade Mode, which could make Dr. Coyle less important as well.

EDIT: There's even a possibility they could ignore it entirely.

 

[Iko MattOrr]

About Dixie Kong...
I've never been a fan of the Donkey Kong series, and I never cared much, but recently I decided to play some of the old games for the first time (before this I only played DKC1 and the Wii one)

Playing DKC2 and 3, I've been exposed to the character of Dixie Kong, and I now have my opinion on the echo thing.

If Isabelle had to be her own character separated from Villager, the same applies to Dixie Kong, she can't be an echo.

Dixie doesn't have a tail and she has those hair.
Her hair are the main thing she uses to attack. They are missing in the model of Diddy Kong, and they need specific animations. Even if you reuse the same moves, you still have to animate the hair, which I guess is more than enough to stop the character from being an echo, if even a minor change in proportions also does the job.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Like I said earlier, it's not really that Spring Man or Ribbon Girl are protagonists. But given they are on the cover, and Spring Man was center stage in the promo trailers upon reveal, they're about as close to "mascots" as one can get.

At least, that's my perspective when it comes to "mascot or protagonist first". But you already know what I've been blabbing about, lol.

I never said otherwise. They're mascots, but not the core protagonist either. The game specifically never had a core protagonist at any point. That can absolutely change.

Well, after the party crash bash victory for Min Min we have official art with Min Min holding the Arms championship belt. Maybe that should tell us the canon story route is Min Min becoming the canon champion of Arms.
The narrative of Arms ended with the last party crash bash, and much like with Splatoon splatfests, the narrative isn't just doing the main game story but also the events shaped around the game.

This is what people keep forgetting about Min Min and the party crash bash. It keeps being reduced to just a popularity contest, where instead it can easily be interpreted as a story-impactful event that defines a specific character as the in-game winner. An event that by crazy random happenstance concluded almost exactly a year ago right around the time when the Arms fighter likely began conception.

...It's still a popularity contest, though. It's never been stated as canon, and it came out well after they chose Spring Man as the original protagonist via a graphic novel. This sounds a lot more like some side event and is way overblown in its importance too. She's also not the only one to win a Party Crash Bash either, so ignoring the first one as well makes it very stretchy. Unless it means there's more than one core protagonist, in the way one Fire Emblem has Chrom and Robin as the main protagonists(with Lucina as the supporting character).

While this does make Min Min a more plausible pick, the most I expect from her is to take Max Brass's place as the final destination for Arcade Mode, which could make Dr. Coyle less important as well.

I doubt they're going to ever edit Arcade Mode for that too. A later game, maybe, could decide the official next protagonist. But now? It's clearly Max Brass.

(Worth noting I misunderstood Dr. Coyle's importance to story mode. It's still pretty big, but she's not always the core antagonist. My bad).

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

It'd be kinda nice to not call something stupid, y'know?

Come up with an argument to refute it then rather than insulting people who see it as a demonstrated possibility backed by precedent.

Sorry, but since I was called "stupid" for box leak, I don't really appreciate that anymore.

Well Im not calling you stupid, so I dont know where you got that from

 

[Cosmic77]

I still think the most plausible outcome is Spring Man with Ribbon Girl as an alt.

If not Ribbon Girl, then Springtron. I think Ribbon Girl is more likely though.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I doubt they're going to ever edit Arcade Mode for that too. A later game, maybe, could decide the official next protagonist. But now? It's clearly Max Brass.

(Worth noting I misunderstood Dr. Coyle's importance to story mode. It's still pretty big, but she's not always the core antagonist. My bad).

I was assuming an ARMS 2. Should have made that clear.

EDIT: I missed this before, but Max Bras is absolutely not the protagonist unless you play as him.
EDIT EDIT: Min Min is the only character that you can make a case for being the true protagonist if you think the last Party Crash Bash is cannon, therefore making her Arcade Mode route the cannon one.

If Isabelle had to be her own character separated from Villager, the same applies to Dixie Kong, she can't be an echo.

Dixie doesn't have a tail and she has those hair.
Her hair are the main thing she uses to attack. They are missing in the model of Diddy Kong, and they need specific animations. Even if you reuse the same moves, you still have to animate the hair, which I guess is more than enough to stop the character from being an echo, if even a minor change in proportions also does the job.

Nah, they can just stick some physics on it like Street Fighter V's animators do. It won't look stupid. Promise!

No but seriously, that's not a major thing when Echo Fighters like Chrom and Dark Samus have completely new animations for various things. That, and I don't think it would mess anything up if you just removed the tail.

 

[Glaciacott]

it came out well after they chose Spring Man as the original protagonist via a graphic novel.

You mean the graphic novel that never came out and continues to be worked on? We don't know who the protagonist is in that, since, well, IT NEVER CAME OUT.
For all we know the preview chapter is completely different. For all we know the delay was to adjust participation of characters that became more popular than expected. It's not the first time something like this happens in the industry either... Overwatch when it came out was supposed to have a companion graphic novel to expand on the lore... which was then promptly cancelled when they saw fans run away with the lore and decided it was best not to define it. Cue Overwatch 2 several years later with in-game story.

This sounds a lot more like some side event and is way overblown in its importance too. She's also not the only one to win a Party Crash Bash either, so ignoring the first one as well makes it very stretchy.

She won the only party crash bash that was a tournament between all the characters and deemed as the final one to declare an ultimate champion. So it seems here like you're cherrypicking to dismiss the important of this win. It's like saying the Callie vs Marie splatfest didn't matter because the Cats vs. Dogs one didn't get anything impactful.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I was assuming an ARMS 2. Should have made that clear.

EDIT: I missed this before, but Max Bras is absolutely not the protagonist unless you play as him.
EDIT EDIT: Min Min is the only character that you can make a case for being the true protagonist if you think the last Party Crash Bash is cannon, therefore making her Arcade Mode route the cannon one.

There's no real reason to think the Party Bash Crashes are remotely canon. They have not been integrated into the game's story at all. Same with the graphic novel. They're separate non-canon stories basically extra works within the franchise. Neither have been declared canon.

Max Brass is the official protagonist of a previous tournament in-game, and made clear in the story. He's not the current protagonist of the story mode, though.

You mean the graphic novel that never came out and continues to be worked on? We don't know who the protagonist is in that, since, well, IT NEVER CAME OUT.
For all we know the preview chapter is completely different. For all we know the delay was to adjust participation of characters that became more popular than expected. It's not the first time something like this happens in the industry either... Overwatch when it came out was supposed to have a companion graphic novel to expand on the lore... which was then promptly cancelled when they saw fans run away with the lore and decided it was best not to define it. Cue Overwatch 2 several years later with in-game story.

Neither are canon, so they should not be taken to mean anything. I thought the graphic novel was separate from the manga(those are completely different kinds of works, so I was confused).

She won the only party crash bash that was a tournament between all the characters and deemed as the final one to declare an ultimate champion. So it seems here like you're cherrypicking to dismiss the important of this win. It's like saying the Callie vs Marie splatfest didn't matter because the Cats vs. Dogs one didn't get anything impactful.

Where is ARMS 2 or any DLC where any of this is taken into account? Nowhere. It has no actual impact on ARMS' official game. It's still a popularity contest at this time. It could absolutely be used in the future, and probably will, but it is currently not canon and there's zero legitimate reason to think it is.

You're definitely exaggerating its impact on ARMS. I'll believe it's canon when it legitimately affects the game or a future game, or Nintendo comes out and says it's canon. Right now it's a non-canon popularity contest that was really cool, but nothing defining beyond non-canon stuff. It's a side story right now. No more, no less.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

You mean the graphic novel that never came out and continues to be worked on? We don't know who the protagonist is in that, since, well, IT NEVER CAME OUT.
For all we know the preview chapter is completely different. For all we know the delay was to adjust participation of characters that became more popular than expected. It's not the first time something like this happens in the industry either... Overwatch when it came out was supposed to have a companion graphic novel to expand on the lore... which was then promptly cancelled when they saw fans run away with the lore and decided it was best not to define it. Cue Overwatch 2 several years later with in-game story.



She won the only party crash bash that was a tournament between all the characters and deemed as the final one to declare an ultimate champion. So it seems here like you're cherrypicking to dismiss the important of this win. It's like saying the Callie vs Marie splatfest didn't matter because the Cats vs. Dogs one didn't get anything impactful.

likewise, you can bet Chaos winning in Chaos vs Order for Splatoon 2 will have an impact for Splatoon 3...

 

[Franauts]

Adding any other character than Springman would be weird, it's as if instead of having Ryu as DLC in 2015, they had given us Akuma, or Guille.

The best option would be Springman and Ribbon Girl, they were the first to be revealed, they appear on the cover of the game, remember that this is no longer the base game and that not everyone buys the Fighter Pass, it´s a DLC that is going to be sold separately, the character has to be individually attractive, it has to sell itself.

My prediction is that they will be:
1. Springman
2. Ribbon Girl
3. Ninjara
4. Min Min

Those are the 4 most popular characters, they are 2 men and 2 women, they have a similar complexion, and the remaining 4 skins can be based on other characters (only color).
I can be wrong, after all this has been the rarest reveal in Smash history.

 

[Will]

Adding any other character than Springman would be weird

but not impossible

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

likewise, you can bet Chaos winning in Chaos vs Order for Splatoon 2 will have an impact for Splatoon 3...

Exactly why I don't consider it a very good point. It's plausible, but plausible doesn't make it actual evidence of anything.

There's no way to know if an ARMS 2 is legitimately coming either. Or ARMS DLC that puts Min Min as the new tournament winner.

That's why patterns aren't strong evidence, but reasonable suggestions at best. Especially in situations like these. Cause really, do we have a reason to believe a Splatoon 3 is remotely coming? No? Then it shouldn't be taken that seriously as an argument.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

1. Springman
2. Ribbon Girl
3. Ninjara
4. Min Min

Ninjara above Min Min? That doesn't sound right...

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Here's my thinking on likelihood.

1. Spring Man & Ribbon Girl
   • The mascot duo who's playstyles can be mixed together as a "two halves of a greater whole" situation like with Simon & Richter. As mascots, they get first pass.
2. Spring Man
   • See above, but they only went with one character.
3. Max Brass
   • The third most well known character of the bunch due to being the final opponent in Arcade Mode. I feel like he'd only get picked if Assist Trophies served as disconfirmations though.
4. Dr. Coyle
   • She's an important part of ARMS's lore, but she's also seen less often than Max Brass, and the villain is the last character I would expect to be the first pick.
5. Min Min
   • This is assuming Min Min will be a major character in ARMS 2, and that ARMS 2 is a thing. These assumptions make her inherently less likely with our current information.

All other options are just not happening in my opinion.

Ninjara above Min Min? That doesn't sound right...

It's in order of appearance on the character select screen. If they did take this route, this would probably be the order in reference to that.

 

[Sari]

The way I see it for the ARMS rep, I think it'll probably be one of these:

1. Spring Man with some additional characters as alts like Hero
2. Min Min
3. Spring Man by himself

I really don't see a universe where it's not one of these three options. Spring Man is the face of the game while Min Min is the most popular. It'd just be so weird to have someone else be the single rep of ARMS.

 

[Franauts]

Ninjara above Min Min? That doesn't sound right...

I know that Min Min is more popular than Ninjara, more than even Springman (at least for Arms fans). I was just giving an example of what order would be like within Smash, interspersing characters by their gender, a man, a woman, a man, a woman. Just like the inkling skins are interspersed on the roster, plus that's the order they have on the Arms roster (I think, I played it a long time ago)

 

[Michael the Spikester]

while Min Min is the most popular.

I thought that was made clear the Crash Party thing wasn't an popularity contest.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I thought that was made clear the Crash Party thing wasn't an popularity contest.

From what I understand, it was meant to be one, but player skill makes it so that the most popular character could also lose due to having a higher number of not as good players playing the game. This has been observed in Splatoon.

 

[AntagonisticGalaxyCetacea]

Well, after the party crash bash victory for Min Min we have official art with Min Min holding the Arms championship belt. Maybe that should tell us the canon story route is Min Min becoming the canon champion of Arms.
The narrative of Arms ended with the last party crash bash, and much like with Splatoon splatfests, the narrative isn't just doing the main game story but also the events shaped around the game.

This is what people keep forgetting about Min Min and the party crash bash. It keeps being reduced to just a popularity contest, where instead it can easily be interpreted as a story-impactful event that defines a specific character as the in-game winner. An event that by crazy random happenstance concluded almost exactly a year ago right around the time when the Arms fighter likely began conception.

But you're forgetting that ARMS is not Splatoon, and that there is no definite proof that ARMS is getting a sequel. Min Min won a party crash bash, so that means she gets picked in Smash, and then made into the new main focus of ARMS? I don't buy it.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Do you think its possible that we get an announcement of a reveal date tonight?

My gut is telling me its soon.




Though its been wrong before.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Do you think its possible that we get an announcement of a reveal date tonight?

My gut is telling me its soon.




Though its been wrong before.

Probably not. If the ARMS rep is getting revealed this week. I suspect an announcement will be on Tuesday or Wednesday.

 

[Phoenixio]

Assists can be disabled. Knuckles, Alucard and the Moon are notably so on Green Hill Zone, Wii Fit stage and Bay.

I've seen this claimed a few times lately, but can you tell me why it is so, if it is know? It seems weird to me that they'd be disabled, especially those that match their origin maps more, lore-wise.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I've seen this claimed a few times lately, but can you tell me why it is so, if it is know? It seems weird to me that they'd be disabled, especially those that match their origin maps more, lore-wise.

For one thing, the Moon will already be stopped by the Four Giants on the Great Bay, so it shouldn't be able to do its thing.

 

[PLATINUM7]

I've seen this claimed a few times lately, but can you tell me why it is so, if it is know? It seems weird to me that they'd be disabled, especially those that match their origin maps more, lore-wise.

Assist trophies that aren't available on certain stages are usually due to how they function which would clash with the stage or are for consistency with their character. Any AT that messes with the camera pretty much isn't available on stages with weird cameras.

Knuckles isn't available on Green Hill to prevent a Knuckles and Knuckles situation with the background Knuckles. Alucard isn't available on the Wii Fit stage because he's a vampire and shouldn't have his reflection show up.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

It'd be kinda nice to not call something stupid, y'know?

Come up with an argument to refute it then rather than insulting people who see it as a demonstrated possibility backed by precedent.

Sorry, but since I was called "stupid" for box leak, I don't really appreciate that anymore.

but jones dont you get it

because i disagree with you and cannot be wrong you have to be stupid this is just logic

I got called stupid so many ****ing times during Box Theory and Grinch Leak and I ain't having that **** so I'm actually with you here /uppercase

 

[Garteam]

Here's the four possibilities that I believe could realistically happen for ARMS:

• Solo Spring Man (15%)
• Spring Man with Ribbon Girl alts (30% chance)
• Spring Man with Ribbon Girl, Ninjara, and Min Min as alts (45% chance)
• Solo Min Min (10%)

So yeah, I'm pretty confident in Spring Man. Not only is there a lot of evidence to back up the "Mascot/Protagonist first" rule, but it makes sense when thinking like a game designer. When choosing a character to represent a property in a big crossover, it makes sense you'd choose the protagonist or mascot. You want the character that the greatest number of people in the general audience will recognize from that property. Protagonists and mascots are the characters that people spend the most time with and the characters that appear most commonly in the product's marketing, so they're the characters that will make the most people go "Oh! It's the guy from the thing!" when they appear in a crossover. If you prioritize a popular supporting character, you may please core fans of the property more, but you risk more casual members of the audience being able to connect where the character comes from, which kinda destroys the entire purpose of a crossover.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Assist trophies that aren't available on certain stages are usually due to how they function which would clash with the stage or are for consistency with their character. Any AT that messes with the camera pretty much isn't available on stages with weird cameras.

Knuckles isn't available on Green Hill to prevent a Knuckles and Knuckles situation with the background Knuckles. Alucard isn't available on the Wii Fit stage because he's a vampire and shouldn't have his reflection show up.

The Moon also can't be used on Mementos due to the occasional barrier that descends from above

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Alucard isn't available on the Wii Fit stage because he's a vampire and shouldn't have his reflection show up.

He's an dhampir (Human-Vampire hybrid) actually but yes.

I've seen this claimed a few times lately, but can you tell me why it is so, if it is know? It seems weird to me that they'd be disabled, especially those that match their origin maps more, lore-wise.

Alucard being half vampire, its said in most legends they don't have reflections in mirrors which the Wii Fit Stage has.

Knuckles already appears in the background of Green Hill Zone running up the loop.

The Moon already appears in the background in the Bay stage.

 

[PLATINUM7]

The Moon also can't be used on Mementos due to the occasional barrier that descends from above

The Moon actually has a long list of stages it won't appear on.
https://www.ssbwiki.com/Moon#As_an_Assist_Trophy

 

[SneakyLink]

I've seen this claimed a few times lately, but can you tell me why it is so, if it is know? It seems weird to me that they'd be disabled, especially those that match their origin maps more, lore-wise.

To quote examples otherwise unmentioned:
In general, if a character is part of the stage, they cannot be summoned there (Knuckles, Moon, and Kapp'n for example. Also applies to Pokémon (Palkia cannot be summoned on Spear Pillar because its part of the stage))
Gameplay reasons (Nikki cannot be on Final Destination because the background conflicts with her drawings (Andross is similar in this regard due to appearing in the background)
I can't figure out Devil and Squid Sisters though, they cannot appear on 63 stages, likely because messing with the camera and blast zones.

 

[YeppersPeppers]

The bottom of the AT page on the SmashWiki lists most of the assist trophies that are disabled on stages and potential reasons as to why:
https://www.ssbwiki.com/Assist_Trophy#In_Super_Smash_Bros._Ultimate

EDIT: Seems SneakyLink pretty much summed them all up already lol

 

[Droodle]

Remember guys and gals.

Every ARMS character is eligible. We could get Springman/Min Min but we may also get one of the lesser "recognizable" characters.