Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Cutie Gwen]

Fair enough.


Snake still wants his ass back though. How can he alert the guards if he's not dummy thicc?

The point of Metal Gear is to sneak around, he had a buttock reduction surgery

I do just kinda have to wonder what this place is going to be like if we’re down to one remaining pick and Geno, Waluigi, Bandanna Waddle Dee, Dante, Steve Minecraft, and Green Mario aren’t among the picks we got at that point.

Just. IMAGINE. THE CHAOS OF IT ALL.

Sorry, may have gotten carried away there.

As someone who expects the Geno costume to just not show up at all, I don't look forward to that reality. We already have people still crying about Byleth after 3 ****ing months

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

...or a Fallout fan going "Nukes are so cool! Love the Enclave!".

I've actually seen a criticism about the games being about the destruction of the bombing rather than the rebuilding in the aftermath like in the first few Fallout games.

Not sure it's really a counterpoint though since there's a bit more nuance that just "why are there bombs!?!"

 

[Cosmic77]

Let's no kid ourselves, this is going to be an emotion we all are going to have to deal with sooner or later.


Be it 6 more characters, or 10 to fit with the World of Light leak, when this is all said and done, even if someone's 99.9% happy with the final roster, we're going to look at it and say "....but what if..."

Well of course. No one will ever be 100% satisfied with the roster to the point where they can say with confidence that there are no more characters they want or ever will want in Smash. That's just part of speculation though. You take your stock, invest it in the character you want in Smash, and then pull out when that character either gets in Smash or is seemingly deconfirmed.

I'll be the first to admit that there will always be characters I want in Smash. Ridley was at the top of my list for a while, but just because he finally got in doesn't mean my journey is over. I'll keep supporting new characters so long as we keep getting new Smash games.

 

[Schnee117]

As someone who expects the Geno costume to just not show up at all

Reminder that had they not gone through with doing FP2 the costume wouldn't be in. That's the crazy thing with this pass really, a lot of it straight up wasn't planned to be a thing until around the time they recorded Terry's video and even then, it may not happen

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I've actually seen a criticism about the games being about the destruction of the bombing rather than the rebuilding in the aftermath like in the first few Fallout games.

Not sure it's really a counterpoint though since there's a bit more nuance that just "why are there bombs!?!"

Shut up the only Fallout games are 1, 2 and New Vegas, nothing else exists in that franchise

Reminder that had they not gone through with doing FP2 the costume wouldn't be in. That's the crazy thing with this pass really, a lot of it straight up wasn't planned to be a thing until around the time they recorded Terry's video and even then, it may not happen

Honestly this is exactly why people made conspiracy theories of Byleth replacing someone else, people couldn't comprehend Ultimate ending like this even after "I got Banjo, I can't complain" claims

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Be it 6 more characters, or 10 to fit with the World of Light leak, when this is all said and done, even if someone's 99.9% happy with the final roster, we're going to look at it and say "....but what if..."

Well duh! This series is made of "what if"s, and those things go on forever if you let them. This is why the series must be eternal. We may not reach infinity, but we'll have fun along the way.

 

[Shroob]

Well duh! This series is made of "what if"s, and those things go on forever if you let them. This is why the series must be eternal. We may not reach infinity, but we'll have fun along the way.

But if it must be Eternal

Then one day we will find Doom...


Eternal

 

[Curious Villager]

I do just kinda have to wonder what this place is going to be like if we’re down to one remaining pick and Geno, Waluigi, Bandanna Waddle Dee, Dante, Steve Minecraft, and Green Mario aren’t among the picks we got at that point.

Just. IMAGINE. THE CHAOS OF IT ALL.

Sorry, may have gotten carried away there.

Why imagine it when we have pretty much Smash's entire history to look back to?

Basically just another day at the office..

 

[Shroob]

Why imagine it when we have pretty much Smash's entire history to look back to?

The fact we can have 8-player Smash with the Sultans of Salt is amazing tbh.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Why imagine it when we have pretty much Smash's entire history to look back to?

I don't think he was talking about divisive picks so much as the warzone that could arise from none of his specified characters getting in.

 

[Will]

Why imagine it when we have pretty much Smash's entire history to look back to?

Basically just another day at the office..

Incineroar? Salt-machine?

Is it because people didn't want more Pokemon or was it because Incineroar ****ing destroyed everyone who thought the Grinch leak was real?

 

[Slime Master]

I can agree that it's on Nintendo to try and sell you on characters you might not know, but if you already spent money on them why wouldn't you look them up to try and decrease your dissatisfaction? It can only benefit you.

 

[ARandomFruit]

I do just kinda have to wonder what this place is going to be like if we’re down to one remaining pick and Geno, Waluigi, Bandanna Waddle Dee, Dante, Steve Minecraft, and Green Mario aren’t among the picks we got at that point.

Just. IMAGINE. THE CHAOS OF IT ALL.

Sorry, may have gotten carried away there.

A part of me wants this to happen honestly, imagining it just seems really funny. I'd imagine it being some battle of people proving their character will be the final one using a bunch of coincidences and then the final character is Dr. goomba stack or something. Although it'd probably get annoying fast.

 

[Shroob]

Incineroar? Salt-machine?

Is it because people didn't want more Pokemon or was it because Incineroar ****ing destroyed everyone who thought the Grinch leak was real?

The latter.

There was a special kind of schadenfreude seeing people's reactions to Incineroar.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

I'm not sure it's bad to complain so long as you're not just whining..

Scoliosis Jones disparaged "complaining," not whining.

Though a change that feels more like a natural extension of what the series already does

This is getting closer to a real answer. What makes an extension natural still needs to be explained.

(such as widening the scope of the crossover in Super Smash Bros.) is way different from a change that is actively bad for it/drop kicks its appeal into space (Sonic Unleashed).

Without such an explanation, there's no justification for these claims.

There's a difference between:

Smash adding 3rd party characters

and

Smash adding a great white shark with laser cannons for eyes and spider legs it uses to walk around on.



In a sense, this is jumping the shark, by a lot. Smash is in no way on the verge of cranking up the sex appeal or going the Mortal Kombat route. In fact, they did everything against said ideas this game specifically by toning down both the violence and LOOD.

Scoliosis Jones liked your post, and he hasn't replied to me, so I'm going to assume that both of you are either unable to understand or unwilling to discuss my point without a lot of work that I'm not willing to put in.

 

[Curious Villager]

Incineroar? Salt-machine?

>Looks up Incineroar's auto translated Korean name.

Its more likely than you think...

 

[Shroob]

Scoliosis Jones disparaged "complaining," not whining.

This is getting closer to a real answer. What makes an extension natural still needs to be explained.

Without such an explanation, there's no justification for these claims.

Scoliosis Jones liked your post, and he hasn't replied to me, so I'm going to assume that both of you are either unable to understand or unwilling to discuss my point without a lot of work that I'm not willing to put in.

I'm not sure what Scol liking my post has to do with any of this.

There's a giant leap of logic you have to take from:

Smash has more 3rd parties
to
SMASH HYPER VIOLENCE/SEX APPEAL

Like, the amount of logical leaps you have to take isn't even funny.

 

[Will]

The latter.

There was a special kind of schadenfreude seeing people's reactions to Incineroar.

Dude, I remember the last glimmer of hope someone had before the Isaac deconfirm.

"GUYS GUYS KEN'S SHORYUKEN LOOKS THE SAME IT'S STILL REAL GUYS"

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Incineroar? Salt-machine?

I reeely want to make a joke about his badly translated name, but it could be too inappropriate here so I'm not gonna.

Is it because people didn't want more Pokemon or was it because Incineroar ****ing destroyed everyone who thought the Grinch leak was real?

Iirc Incineroar is pretty well disliked in the U.S., even before he came to Super Smash Bros.

 

[Will]

Iirc Incineroar is pretty well disliked in the U.S., even before he came to Super Smash Bros.

how the do you dislike incineroar, he's a ****ing wrestler we eat that **** up

 

[Cutie Gwen]

how the do you dislike incineroar, he's a ****ing wrestler we eat that **** up

The only argument I saw is that Incineroar isn't Pokemon-y enough

 

[Shroob]

I reeely want to make a joke about his badly translated name, but it could be too inappropriate here so I'm not gonna.


Iirc Incineroar is pretty well disliked in the U.S., even before he came to Super Smash Bros.

Maybe from casual Pokemon fans sure.

Incineroar is pretty much a staple Pokemon in competitive that it's not even funny. Ever since he got his hidden ability in Gen 7, he's been on more teams than I can count.

 

[SNEKeater]

Sometimes wonder if we all take this **** too seriously. Why does it matter if a character isn't iconic or 3rd party? They're a character in a video game and if they have a unique moveset, that's enough for me. I haven't picked up any of the DLC characters as a main, but I'm just glad to have 'more' options available at my disposal, to hell with these imaginary borders.

We're probably taking all of this a bit more seriously than we should do. Or maybe not, but I'm sure anyone who's not into Smash would be confused after reading Smash fans arguing about the game like we're just doing in the last pages.
I guess this is because we're attached to the game and we like to discuss and speculate about Smash. I think it's fine if we keep our composure. In the end it's a videogame and we're talking about a bunch of fictional characters.

 

[GoodGrief741]

how the do you dislike incineroar, he's a ****ing wrestler we eat that **** up

I love wrestling and I think he's dumb and ugly. I will forever wonder to what extent that was intended, as he's supposed to be a heel.

 

[Goombaic]

how the do you dislike incineroar, he's a ****ing wrestler we eat that **** up

People wanted a quadruped instead of a bipedal, so it's the ****tiest starter in existence now. Delphox received flack for that, too.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

how the do you dislike incineroar, he's a ****ing wrestler we eat that **** up

I dunno. I just only saw negativity around him. Perhaps it's because I'm a more casual observer of that fanbase.

I personally quite like it. Not more than my owl ranger though. That thing was made for me.

The only argument I saw is that Incineroar isn't Pokemon-y enough

Good to know I shouldn't take them seriously.

People wanted a quadruped instead of a bipedal, so it's the ****tiest starter in existence now. Delphox received flack for that, too.

I don't like Delphox because it looks like it needs to clean its ears.

 

[Will]

The only argument I saw is that Incineroar isn't Pokemon-y enough

What makes Incineroar less Pokemon-y than a bunch of eggs?

People wanted a quadruped instead of a bipedal, so it's the ****tiest starter in existence now. Delphox received flack for that, too.

Fire/Fighting repetition? Yeah, I understand the hate for that.
****ing being able to stand???? I don't understand that kind of hate.

 

[Shroob]

What makes Incineroar less Pokemon-y than a bunch of eggs?


Fire/Fighting repetition? Yeah, I understand the hate for that.
****ing being able to stand???? I don't understand that kind of hate.

They're seeds, Will.

Seeds.


Open your eyes sheeple the Pokemon company has been lying to you about Exeggcute all these years #exposed #wokeseeds

 

[Will]

They're seeds, Will.

Seeds.


Open your eyes sheeple the Pokemon company has been lying to you about Exeggcute all these years #exposed #wokeseeds

If they're seeds what the hell is on the inside of the cracked ones? Is it the forbidden Potion?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Fire/Fighting repetition? Yeah, I understand the hate for that.
****ing being able to stand???? I don't understand that kind of hate.

I've actually gotten this critique on my Fakémon with the whole quadruped -> bipedal thing so it doesn't surprise me.

#yolkseeds

Fixed that for you.

 

[Curious Villager]

What makes Incineroar less Pokemon-y than a bunch of eggs?


Fire/Fighting repetition? Yeah, I understand the hate for that.
****ing being able to stand???? I don't understand that kind of hate.

To be fair, we never really had a truly quadruped fully evolved Fire Starter to this day, It's kinda more repetitive and predictable than the whole Fire/Fighting meme...

 

[Shroob]

I've actually gotten this critique on my Fakémon with the whole quadruped -> bipedal thing so it doesn't surprise me.


Fixed that for you.

.....Mother **** why didn't I think of that.

I have to hand in my dad joke license now.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

To be fair, we never really had a truly quadruped Fire Starter to this day, It's kinda more repetitive and predictable than the whole Fire/Fighting meme...

I believe Typhlosion is both. Kinda like Pikachu.

EDIT: Though it is true that Emboar, Delphox, and Incineroar look more similar to each other than Samurott, Greninja, and Primarina, and Serperior, Chesnaught, and Decidueye do.

 

[Curious Villager]

I believe Typhlosion is both. Kinda like Pikachu.

Typhlosion is the closest thing I suppose, though even that is more commonly depicted at standing upright more often than not.

 

[Will]

To be fair, we never really had a truly quadruped fully evolved Fire Starter to this day, It's kinda more repetitive and predictable than the whole Fire/Fighting meme...

And this is why Grass starters are always top tier. except gens 3 and 5 the water types are the GOAT

 

[Schnee117]

Typhlosion has bigger issues than being a facultive biped.

Look how they massacred my boy

The fact we can have 8-player Smash with the Sultans of Salt is amazing tbh.

Come the end of the pass we won't be able to fit them all in lol

 

[ARandomFruit]

Fire/Fighting repetition? Yeah, I understand the hate for that.
****ing being able to stand???? I don't understand that kind of hate.

I don't fully understand it but maybe its because 3 starters in a row started quadruped and then turned bipedal? + Cyndaquil. It's probably the same as fire/fighting thing where it's more repetitive because it happened in succession and that's why people hate it. I'm not too sure though.

 

[Shroob]

Typhlosion has bigger issues than being a facultive biped.

Look how they massacred my boy

"My Tindr profile picture"

vs

"Me irl"

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Typhlosion is the closest thing I suppose, though even that is more commonly depicted at standing upright more often than not.

Likely because the standing pose is the best as communicating the Pokémon's feel, and we never really see it in motion because the fully evolved Joto starters don't get much love. I think they're the only ones not to be owned by any main character in the anime.

And this is why Grass starters are always top tier. except gens 3 and 5 the water types are the GOAT

You like Meganium too? Seeing one Meganium lover had me confused but two?

*brain explodes*

 

[Garteam]

I'm not sure I agree. Is Smash going through an identity crisis? Or are fans expectations being subverted based on the direction the game itself is going?

I mean sure, fan interests are one thing. But Sakurai himself has referred to the game as the "biggest gaming crossover ever" the packaging and website describes it as "gaming icons clash".

If you ask me, that's the reality we are in. Smash has outgrown being simply a Nintendo crossover. Folks can love it or hate it, but that's the reality we're in. You can either continually resist and be frustrated that it doesn't fit the "ideal" image of what Smash is "supposed to be" (though, who are we to say what it should or shouldn't be?), or you can embrace the growing crossover element and embrace the exposure to gaming franchises that, to certain people, are previously unknown?

What's most ironic is that it seems the group steering Smash in the "gaming crossover" vision is none other than Nintendo themselves. Sure, it started with Sakurai planning to bring everybody together in this game, but Nintendo willingly continued with it.

I don't think it's the game having an identity crisis. I think it's the fanbase grappling with the direction the series has taken.

I wrote the original write-up on the "Smash Bros Identity crisis", so I feel these points are worth addressing.

First, I definitely agree that Smash's identity crisis lays far more with the fanbase than the game itself. I'm sure that Sakurai and the staff working on the game have an answer to whether Smash is a Nintendo crossover or a general gaming crossover, it's the fanbase that's divided. I now think, in retrospect, it would be better to call it Smash speculation's identity crisis than Smash's identity crisis. Thank you for articulating this better than I did in my original write up.

However, I ultimately disagree that the writing is on the wall suggests Smash is now a more general gaming crossover. While Sakurai and Nintendo's statements provide some initial support for this claim, they're a little more ambiguous than it might seem. First, many of these comments can be contextualize as marketing statements designed to sell the game. As is (unfortunately) often the case, publishers and developers will play up certain elements of a game to ship copies, regardless of truth. As such, it makes sense Sakurai and Nintendo would attempt to make Smash's crossover element to seem as grand as possible, as that's what's most impressive to a consumer. Likewise, Sakurai's comments also have the added layer of being translated from Japanese, meaning misinterpretation and mistranslation are always a possibility. Remember how the fanbase reacted to Sakurai claiming the focus was to add "new worlds" in the Banjo trailer, when a better translation showed he was just talking about "expanding the crossover"? Plus, a crossover can still be great while being maintained in a certain scope. Many would call the Avengers films "the greatest crossover in film history", but those are still confined to a relatively small stable of characters.

Most importantly, I just don't think this idea of going beyond Nintendo really has manifested itself in the roster thus far. Many saw Joker as a change of pace for who could be included in Smash. Suddenly, Smash Bros was no longer restricted to Nintendo and a handful of outside characters with massive franchises and unprecedented legacies. If Joker (a character that only debuted a few years prior, came from a modestly sized franchise, and had little to Nintendo) was fair game, then what's really stopping anyone else from joining the battle?

But the characters who followed Joker really don't fit this idea of Smash as an open-ended gaming crossover. Hero is pretty traditional as far as non-Nintendo characters in Smash go: he's the main character of a multi-billion dollar empire that has a 30-year history, influence on nearly every release that came after it, and in-depth ties to Nintendo. Hero may be third party, but he adds to Smash's traditional identity of having guest fighters that serve as an elite exception to the Nintendo cast. Likewise, Banjo fit the post-Joker idea of Smash speculation in that he's a non-Nintendo character from a more lowkey franchise, but he also has a reasonably strong legacy and is often considered an honorary Nintendo character. His inclusion added to Smash's traditional atmosphere as a Nintendo crossover. Terry is probably the closest in image to what the post-Joker batch was said to look like, but he's still closer to the traditional big third parties that Smash games usually get. His relative obscurity is far outweighed by the influence of his games and him being an established star within his genre. Terry really wouldn't be that out of place in the older Smash games, where the biggest and influential gaming icons contrasted Nintendo's icons.