Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Ben Holt]

This couldn't be further from the truth. To illistrate, here is the ARMS Character showcase that was part of the ARMS Direct
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYAVrmg_Vbc

Notice how they go through each character ability first. Even those ARMS are their signature ones. To take it one step further, even if you just say "Oh they can change the ARMS, whats the different," it would be weird if they aren't using their signature ones in lieu of another character's. While every character can use all the ARMS, there are always 3 that are signature for them.

This idea of "Make them like the Koppalings" sounds like a lot of Smash fans who never touched ARMS. The abilities define how they play and also help define who they are. I can put it no better than this: why the heck would Springman, Ribbon Girl and Ninjara start kicking when the reason Min Min kicks because she's specifically a "certified martial arts master".

Ribbon Girl's double jump and Ninjara's dodge are already general Smash mechanics.
My money is still on Spring Man default with either a Ribbon Girl echo or a Bowser Jr. / Hero style character swap for Ribbon Girl, Ninjara, and Min Min.
Either way, we're getting more than one character represented in FP6.

 

[wynn728]

Here's the thing when it comes the whole "Spirits Deconfirmation"
The characters aren't deconfirmed because they're Spirits, they're Spirits because there was no plans for them in Ultimate. As we saw Fighters Pass Vol 1 was decided and finalized before the game even released, so any character that wasn't going to show up would become a Spirit.
Vol 2 was decided upon after released, something that they didn't plans on to begin with. So of course PNGs that are in the base game ain't gonna hold the character back, just like Lucas and Mewtwon in Smash 4.
Spirits that are added afterward like Resident Evil do deconfirm since they were added when they were planning Vol 2, if the characters was gonna be part of Vol 2 then wouldn't make Spirits Events including those characters.

 

[N3ON]

A character not using their signature ARMS seems about as weird to me as Charizard using Rock Smash or Pikachu using Skull Bash.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

This idea of "Make them like the Koppalings" sounds like a lot of Smash fans who never touched ARMS. The abilities define how they play and also help define who they are. I can put it no better than this: why the heck would Springman, Ribbon Girl and Ninjara start kicking when the reason Min Min kicks because she's specifically a "certified martial arts master".

Again, the same reason Byleth uses all three lords weapons, the reason Young Link uses Fire Arrows, the reason Ness and Lucas use Starstorm and others, the reason K. Rool can use all of his different Persona's abilities, the reason Joker uses moves that aren't even originally from Persona, because it would make an interesting character. You could easily make an Arms conglomerate character 100% more interesting than picking one dud of a character who can kick. It gives Sakurai a lot of opportunity for one of the most interesting characters ever.

I really don't get why people are so against this. It's just speculation and it's just what other people like as an idea for the character. And yet, it apparently ruins the entire character because it isn't just one but many. Seems kind of backwards.

 

[Ben Holt]

Here's the thing when it comes the whole "Spirits Deconfirmation"
The characters aren't deconfirmed because they're Spirits, they're Spirits because there was no plans for them in Ultimate. As we saw Fighters Pass Vol 1 was decided and finalized before the game even released, so any character that wasn't going to show up would become a Spirit.
Vol 2 was decided upon after released, something that they didn't plans on to begin with. So of course PNGs that are in the base game ain't gonna hold the character back, just like Lucas and Mewtwon in Smash 4.
Spirits that are added afterward like Resident Evil do deconfirm since they were added when they were planning Vol 2, if the characters was gonna be part of Vol 2 then wouldn't make Spirits Events including those characters.

That's my general speculation as well. But I'm not writing anyone off at this point.

Again, the same reason Byleth uses all three lords weapons, the reason Young Link uses Fire Arrows, the reason Ness and Lucas use Starstorm and others, the reason K. Rool can use all of his different Persona's abilities, the reason Joker uses moves that aren't even originally from Persona, because it would make an interesting character. You could easily make an Arms conglomerate character 100% more interesting than picking one dud of a character who can kick. It gives Sakurai a lot of opportunity for one of the most interesting characters ever.

I really don't get why people are so against this. It's just speculation and it's just what other people like as an idea for the character. And yet, it apparently ruins the entire character because it isn't just one but many. Seems kind of backwards.

As a Nintendo Sheep myself, I bought and played ARMS the day it released, and I promise you that the differences between fighters is on par with the Koopalings (they all fought differently from each other throughout the years ESPECIALLY in NSMBW) and WAY less significant than the differences between Eleven, Erdrick, Solo, and Eight, but they all occupied one slot.

A character not using their signature ARMS seems about as weird to me as Charizard using Rock Smash or Pikachu using Skull Bash.

Or Incineroar'a Side-B (Alolan Whip) not even being a move in the Pokémon games.
Or the fact that Greninja's Final Smash is Night Slash despite it only being an 80 Base Power physical move then Greninja's Special Attack stat is much higher, and Hydro Pump (110 Base Power) does NO damage.

 

[masterluigi1]

A character not using their signature ARMS seems about as weird to me as Charizard using Rock Smash or Pikachu using Skull Bash.

Who are you talking about? None of the arms characters would get in and not use their arms?

 

[Mushroomguy12]

A character not using their signature ARMS seems about as weird to me as Charizard using Rock Smash or Pikachu using Skull Bash.

Or Ness and Lucas using PK Fire, PSI Magnet, PK Flash, PK Freeze, PSI Magnet, PK Thunder, etc. And PK Starstorm prior to Ultimate. All those moves that belonged to Paula, Poo, and Kumatora.

 

[Krankees]

Who are you talking about? None of the arms characters would get in and not use their arms?

ARMS is also a term that refers to the weapons that are attached to the arms of the characters. Each character has a default set of three ARMS.

 

[Deleted member]

It is worth to note there are also more characters such as Rosalina who also happen to use moves they never really use in their main game appearances (in her case the Mario Galaxy duology) and are rather used by Mario in those games (such as the pointer thing which grabs objects and the Air spin).

You can make a character have the moves of other ones as long as the theming fits them really well.

 

[Ben Holt]

ARMS is also a term that refers to the weapons that are attached to the arms of the characters. Each character has a default set of three ARMS.

All characters have the same selection of arms to choose from. The base three you start with are just different between characters. But every character has access to every arm when fully unlocked.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

One thing to look at for using special moves from other fighters is this; is it impossible for the character to use it? If not, then the issue isn't as big. Ness can't use certain PSI abilities, but logically why can't he? It's just a gameplay programming, not some major story reason in itself. Story stuff matters a lot more for that. That's why Dark Pit can't use the Three Sacred Treasures in Smash. He wouldn't make sense to use it. He's basically under Viridi, not Palutena. Now think of why an ARMS character couldn't perform a kick, or jump multiple times, etc. Obviously some do not work with every character, but many are logical enough for them to use.

This is why an alt feels plausible to me. They're logical moves anyway.

 

[N3ON]

Or Ness and Lucas using PK Fire, PSI Magnet, PK Flash, PK Freeze, PSI Magnet, PK Thunder, etc. And PK Starstorm prior to Ultimate. All those moves that belonged to Paula, Poo, and Kumatora.

Frankly that goes even further, since at least the Pokemon can learn those moves.

But fwiw, obviously it's because of reusing Pikachu's moveset, but I don't actually think Pichu is capable of learning Skull Bash. Sometimes you just gotta take creative liberties.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Vol 2 was decided upon after released, something that they didn't plans on to begin with. So of course PNGs that are in the base game ain't gonna hold the character back, just like Lucas and Mewtwon in Smash 4.
Spirits that are added afterward like Resident Evil do deconfirm since they were added when they were planning Vol 2, if the characters was gonna be part of Vol 2 then wouldn't make Spirits Events including those characters.

Nope. Spring Man will be added. And after that...Kunio. This is the way.

 

[GoodGrief741]

There's just a fine line where optimism leaves realism, and it's a line I think a lot of fans have long since crossed, most likely while drunk on hype.
Don't get me wrong, I would love, nay, adore if Krystal were possible. But she isn't, and there's nothing I can do about that, and that's okay.

Or maybe Krystal can get in. This doesn't mean that she'll get in, but it means that you can hope that she does, tell people what you think are points in her favor, and spread the love for the character.

That's okay too. And I think one version of things is more fun than the other for everyone involved.

Here's the thing when it comes the whole "Spirits Deconfirmation"
The characters aren't deconfirmed because they're Spirits, they're Spirits because there was no plans for them in Ultimate. As we saw Fighters Pass Vol 1 was decided and finalized before the game even released, so any character that wasn't going to show up would become a Spirit.
Vol 2 was decided upon after released, something that they didn't plans on to begin with. So of course PNGs that are in the base game ain't gonna hold the character back, just like Lucas and Mewtwon in Smash 4.
Spirits that are added afterward like Resident Evil do deconfirm since they were added when they were planning Vol 2, if the characters was gonna be part of Vol 2 then wouldn't make Spirits Events including those characters.

I agree 100% with what you said but I gotta say, it's weird to see that coming from you.

 

[N3ON]

Nope. Spring Man will be added. And after that...Kunio. This is the way.

And then Cuphead.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Why has no one posted an link or source of Ridley being an base for Banjo yet? People have been asking still no answer.

Hi yes I’d like to know this too

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Creative liberty is the way to do it with an Arms character. It'd be dope as ****.

 

[Ben Holt]

And then Cuphead.

Cuphead's Mii Costume is satisfying enough for me, but if FP6 is indeed Spring Man, then that means Shovel Knight is on the table.

 

[Will]

After Spring Man gets promoted, the Fighter's Pass will be as follows:

- Dr. Kawashima
- Riki
- Nintendog
- Prince of Sable

and finally, one of the most popular fan-requested characters who didn't quite make the cut

- Leif

 

[masterluigi1]

ARMS is also a term that refers to the weapons that are attached to the arms of the characters. Each character has a default set of three ARMS.

Yea I get that. My question is why wouldn't the arms character use arms. Seems self explanatory that whoever the arms rep is will use their arms.

 

[PSIGuy]

Ribbon Girl's double jump and Ninjara's dodge are already general Smash mechanics.
My money is still on Spring Man default with either a Ribbon Girl echo or a Bowser Jr. / Hero style character swap for Ribbon Girl, Ninjara, and Min Min.
Either way, we're getting more than one character represented in FP6.

Ribbon Girl doesn't have a double jump, she has four mid-air jumps.
Ninjara's dodge has him disappear entirely and reappear.
Neither of these are "general Smash mechanics", at best they are character-specific Smash mechanics, and they are only on characters that make sense to have them as mechanics. Kirby characters have multiple jumps because they have multiple jumps in their home game, not because they are in Smash Bros. You are suggesting they slap a ninja teleport and meter mechanic on Luigi because you think he is too boring without it. You don't even know about the mechanics you're generalizing, so stop GENERALIZING THEM.

Again, the same reason Byleth uses all three lords weapons,

is because Sakurai thinks there are too many swordfighters, which he has expressed time and time again. He didn't let all of the three lords share the same moveset and use each other's abilities either, he added onto the avatar character.

the reason Young Link uses Fire Arrows,

he has them in actual Zelda games?

the reason Ness and Lucas use Starstorm and others,

An actual case of expanding a character's moveset with things they can't use, but their movesets would otherwise be entirely support and healing based with one PSI attack otherwise.

the reason K. Rool can use all of his different Persona's abilities,

is because they're all him?

the reason Joker uses moves that aren't even originally from Persona,

Like what? Everything he does is either tied to his "phantom thief" aesthetic or something he could actually cast in Persona 5 (Eiha and Eigaon are in Persona 5, Tetrakarn and Makarakarn are also in Persona 5). He isn't stealing the Personas of other characters to flesh out his moveset because he has enough of a moveset already.

You could easily make an Arms conglomerate character 100% more interesting than picking one dud of a character who can kick. It gives Sakurai a lot of opportunity for one of the most interesting characters ever.
I really don't get why people are so against this. It's just speculation and it's just what other people like as an idea for the character. And yet, it apparently ruins the entire character because it isn't just one but many. Seems kind of backwards.

The reason people are "against it" is because the only people who are "FOR IT" are operating under the assumption that an Arms fighter is a "dud of a character" in the first place! An interesting character isn't comprised of stolen mechanics from everyone in a single game. Shulk didn't need Dunban's sword and Melia's magic and Riki's status effects to be a good addition. Banjo and Kazooie didn't use Conker's chainsaw and the Battletoad's anvil fist. Interesting characters are made by taking one idea - "what if we had a fighter who could do this" - and taking it to the logical extreme. You never see this "JUST SLAP THEM ALL TOGETHER" mentality on any other newcomer.

Why can't people just take the L and admit they don't care about ARMS? If we can have an 8th Fire Emblem character who is still portrayed with a sword for all of their official appearances, then a stretchy arm person can surely get in as is.

 

[Will]

Why can't people just take the L and admit they don't care about ARMS?

Oh trust me dude I don't give two ****s about ARMS, but I like Helix's design so I'm devoted to Helix gang.

 

[Proceleon]

ARMS is also a term that refers to the weapons that are attached to the arms of the characters. Each character has a default set of three ARMS.

Hey, if you wanna talk Arm usage, then Coyle would actually be perfect. Since she's basically the head of ARMS and is openly an inventor, it would make actual in-character sense for her to use more Arms than she could in canon.

 

[N3ON]

Yea I get that. My question is why wouldn't the arms character use arms. Seems self explanatory that whoever the arms rep is will use their arms.

This is under the paradigm of it being a multiple-character character, in which case incorporating some of the signature ARMS wouldn't work if you aim to retain their individual effects.

After Spring Man gets promoted, the Fighter's Pass will be as follows:

- Dr. Kawashima
- Riki
- Nintendog
- Prince of Sable

and finally, one of the most popular fan-requested characters who didn't quite make the cut

- Leif

The ultimate

 

[Cosmic77]

I dunno. Looking back at this ARMS character and Byleth, I feel like there's been three or four instances when this thread said, "Obviously 'X' won't happen because of 'Y'," only for it to not be the case.

Whether it's alts, Spirits, or some other third thing, I think we should keep an open mind. Honestly, we have absolutely no idea what's going on behind the scene, and while we might be able to rationalize something so perfectly in our minds, the next character could easily disprove all of it.

 

[wynn728]

Again, the same reason Byleth uses all three lords weapons, the reason Young Link uses Fire Arrows, the reason Ness and Lucas use Starstorm and others, the reason K. Rool can use all of his different Persona's abilities, the reason Joker uses moves that aren't even originally from Persona, because it would make an interesting character. You could easily make an Arms conglomerate character 100% more interesting than picking one dud of a character who can kick. It gives Sakurai a lot of opportunity for one of the most interesting characters ever.

I really don't get why people are so against this. It's just speculation and it's just what other people like as an idea for the character. And yet, it apparently ruins the entire character because it isn't just one but many. Seems kind of backwards.

It doesn't really make the character interesting because that means you have to strip down the unique abilities that the four characters have so they can fit the same mold. Gameplay wise what makes a character like Twintelle interesting is that her dodge slows down time, what makes Min Min interesting is her deflect kick and having her left arm charge up to become a dragon which strength her attacks, Misango have spirits that enhance different aspects, Dr. Coyle has a third arm that also attacks and turns invisible. Taking these abilities away so they can fit all as one character doesn't make the character interesting.

 

[Will]

It doesn't really make the character interesting because that means you have to strip down the unique abilities that the four characters have so they can fit the same mold. Gameplay wise what makes a character like Twintelle interesting is that her dodge slows down time, what makes Min Min interesting is her deflect kick and having her left arm charge up to become a dragon which strength her attacks, Misango have spirits that enhance different aspects, Dr. Coyle has a third arm that also attacks and turns invisible. Taking these abilities away so they can fit all as one character doesn't make the character interesting.

Pray tell, what other playable characters on the roster has long, stretchy arms that can be used for various purposes?

 

[Wunderwaft]

There's something that I've been thinking about for a while. ARMS being the first character shown in the second fighters pass makes me think there might be more Nintendo characters in the pass and this might not be just a one-off, the question is how many?

I'd like to ask everyone's thoughts on how many Nintendo characters we might get and who they think the characters could be.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

There's something that I've been thinking about for a while. ARMS being the first character shown in the second fighters pass makes me think there might be more Nintendo characters in the pass and this might not be just a one-off, the question is how many?

I'd like to ask everyone's thoughts on how many Nintendo characters we might get and who they think the characters could be.

FWIW I definitely think we’ll get at least two, at most three third parties. They’ll just be of a lesser scale than Joker/Hero/Banjo/Terry.

 

[Will]

There's something that I've been thinking about for a while. ARMS being the first character shown in the second fighters pass makes me think there might be more Nintendo characters in the pass and this might not be just a one-off, the question is how many?

I'd like to ask everyone's thoughts on how many Nintendo characters we might get and who they think the characters could be.

However many they want. Could be all of the pass, could just be this one of the pass, either way it isn't gonna affect me. I'm not gonna cry over one side outnumbers the other.

I don't have a preference, as long as Travis is in.

 

[wynn728]

I agree 100% with what you said but I gotta say, it's weird to see that coming from you.

I said that in the past.

 

[Ben Holt]

FWIW I definitely think we’ll get at least two, at most three third parties. They’ll just be of a lesser scale than Joker/Hero/Banjo/Terry.

Crash, Doom Slayer, Heihachi.
Thank you.

 

[GoodGrief741]

After Spring Man gets promoted, the Fighter's Pass will be as follows:

- Dr. Kawashima
- Riki
- Nintendog
- Prince of Sable

and finally, one of the most popular fan-requested characters who didn't quite make the cut

- Leif

I'm probably mad but two of those characters would be really great additions in my book.

Like what? Everything he does is either tied to his "phantom thief" aesthetic or something he could actually cast in Persona 5 (Eiha and Eigaon are in Persona 5, Tetrakarn and Makarakarn are also in Persona 5). He isn't stealing the Personas of other characters to flesh out his moveset because he has enough of a moveset already.

Actually if Joker used his party members' Personae it would be more accurate to canon than his actual moveset. Joker, like most Persona protagonists, is a Wild Card, which means he can use any Persona.

Also, unlike Smash, he doesn't have any Rebellion Gauge. It's not even based on anything in game, from other characters or from other games. It was completely made up so that his moveset can have a gimmick despite being completely unfaithful to how his game plays. If that can be done, along with many other things (all the Heroes get turned into RNG schmucks and use none of the other kinds of weapons they can wield - despite changing equipment mid-fight being a mechanic in DQ games), I don't see the ARMS thing as far-fetched.

The reason people are "against it" is because the only people who are "FOR IT" are operating under the assumption that an Arms fighter is a "dud of a character" in the first place! An interesting character isn't comprised of stolen mechanics from everyone in a single game. Shulk didn't need Dunban's sword and Melia's magic and Riki's status effects to be a good addition. Banjo and Kazooie didn't use Conker's chainsaw and the Battletoad's anvil fist. Interesting characters are made by taking one idea - "what if we had a fighter who could do this" - and taking it to the logical extreme. You never see this "JUST SLAP THEM ALL TOGETHER" mentality on any other newcomer.

Why can't people just take the L and admit they don't care about ARMS? If we can have an 8th Fire Emblem character who is still portrayed with a sword for all of their official appearances, then a stretchy arm person can surely get in as is.

I bought ARMS day one and I still think the alts thing could work. Sue me.

 

[KillerCage]

Why has no one posted an link or source of Ridley being an base for Banjo yet? People have been asking still no answer.

Hi yes I’d like to know this too

You guys aren't the only ones who want an answer to this question.

 

[masterluigi1]

This is under the paradigm of it being a multiple-character character, in which case incorporating some of the signature ARMS wouldn't work if you aim to retain their individual effects.


The ultimate

maybe they'd let you customize the different arms like in the game similar to custom moves for miis. Either way I don't remember any arm types being exclusive to certain characters. You could always interchange them.

Like even if min min had the default red arms it would still work because you could do that in the game

 

[AntagonisticGalaxyCetacea]

This idea of "Make them like the Koppalings" sounds like a lot of Smash fans who never touched ARMS.

Its commonly known that the vocal Smash fans don't play videogames

 

[Proceleon]

I dunno. Looking back at this ARMS character and Byleth, I feel like there's been three or four instances when this thread said, "Obviously 'X' won't happen because of 'Y'," only for it to not be the case.

Whether it's alts, Spirits, or some other third thing, I think we should keep an open mind. Honestly, we have absolutely no idea what's going on behind the scene, and while we might be able to rationalize something so perfectly in our minds, the next character could easily disprove all of it.

In all honesty, if it turns out the Fighter is a Spirit, I'll take that L even though I'm 100% certain there's no chance of that timeline happening. I may relish Spirits being shut down or hold my head in my hands as speculation implodes again, but I'll take it.

 

[Will]

I'm probably mad but two of those characters would be really great additions in my book.

Yeah, who doesn't want Nintendogs and Leif?

You guys aren't the only ones who want an answer to this question.

All in favor in saying it's false and stupid until someone mans up?

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Crash, 2B and Travis are who I think the 3rd parties will be they go with.

Otherwise the others will be 1st parties with the ARMS rep, Xenoblade rep and Euden. Though there's an possibility of an BotW character for promotion of the sequel.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Yeah, who doesn't want Nintendogs and Leif?


All in favor in saying it's false and stupid until someone mans up?

Aye!