Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Then there’s Demise w Ghirahim, even though demise is currently only in one game he is very important to the entire lore of the franchise because he is the ultimate big bad who started everything, ghirahim is also pretty popular and with a dual moveset that allowed demise to change ghirahim from sword form to human form on command ala stand style would be very unique.

I feel like Demise should be Girahim's Final Smash rather than have Demise playable, but this is probably off of unfounded notions of Demise's lack of popularity.

Also, I think Vaati is a recurring villain, but he's only appeared twice or something.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

I’ve got to say I‘m not sold on multiple ARMS characters as alts. Sakurai seemingly felt the need to make Richter an echo fighter just so he can have unique taunts and victory animations, allowing him to better showcase his personality.
On top of that Sakurai has done a phenomenal job accurately translating fighting game characters especially.

I just don’t see these characters sharing the same animations.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Zelda is an A list series, it deserves the same level of rep page as Mario or Pokémon so it will never be a problem of having too many. The problem is FE a C tier franchise has as manny reps as the big guns and the characters in smash from their franchise aren’t visually distinct, are often not even the most popular in their franchise, often wield a generic sword/play similar and several are true one offs.

Just want to mention that Fire emblem is more of a B tier series than a C tier one.

C tier is more something like Kid Icarus or Warioware.

 

[MagnesD3]

I feel like Demise should be Girahim's Final Smash rather than have Demise playable, but this is probably off of unfounded notions of Demise's lack of popularity.

Also, I think Vaati is a recurring villain, but he's only appeared twice or something.

Nah can’t drop demise, he is so cool and important. And dual/stand type character would be super unique gameplay wise (more jojo style than joker Arsene that’s a complete power up).

And Vaati used to be pretty popular if I recall so he probably is a good one too lol, Zelda is filled to the brim with great pics and they have just been super ignored lol.

 

[DetectiveSS]

He may not be the hero we expected.

Heck, he may not even be the hero we wanted.

But goddammit he’s the hero we needed.

 

[Cosmic77]

I’ve got to say I‘m not sold on multiple ARMS characters as alts. Sakurai seemingly felt the need to make Richter an echo fighter just so he can have unique taunts and victory animations, allowing him to better showcase his personality.
On top of that Sakurai has done a phenomenal job accurately translating fighting game characters especially.

I just don’t see these characters sharing the same animations.

Personally, this kind of reinforced my belief that Spring Man, Ribbon Girl, and Min Min are similar enough to work as alts.

Just want to mention that Fire emblem is more of a B tier series than a C tier one.

C tier is more something like Kid Icarus or Warioware.

I think FE is closer to C tier. Animal Crossing, Splatoon, and Smash aren't quite as big as Mario, Pokemon, and Zelda, but they're definitely bigger than FE, Kirby, and Yoshi.

 

[HansShotFirst20]

I’ve got to say I‘m not sold on multiple ARMS characters as alts. Sakurai seemingly felt the need to make Richter an echo fighter just so he can have unique taunts and victory animations, allowing him to better showcase his personality.
On top of that Sakurai has done a phenomenal job accurately translating fighting game characters especially.

I just don’t see these characters sharing the same animations.

The male & female Byleths have different taunts and victory animations, so an ARMS amalgam could have them, too.

Also, ARMS is waaaayyyy different from the fighting game characters that have been represented in Smash so far -- it's a 3-d arena fighter, and the fighter 'movesets' are miniscule, with the combat being focused more on the nuances of the movement and attacks than combos and whatnot. I don't see Sakurai and his team placing the same emphasis on accuracy for an ARMS character, given you can't just pull them out of their game and put them into Smash like the Shotos and Terry.

 

[Undella2]

(There’s even potentially Vaati, don’t know jack about him but if he’s recurring I might even think him a good pick)

Vaati's (technically) the third most recurring villain in the Legend of Zelda series, only behind Dark Link and Ganon/Ganondorf.

I think what he means is that alot of FE Lords designs are just
"What is this guy suppose to be" to the western eye.

It might just be because I've played a lot of D&D and Magic, but, even before really getting into Fire Emblem, I could pretty easily recognize the Marth-s, at least, as being Knights/Nobles, due to their notable focus on swordsmanship, outfits, and overall general demeanor.

 

[Captain Shwampy]

Vaati's (technically) the third most recurring villain in the Legend of Zelda series, only behind Dark Link and Ganon/Ganondorf.



It might just be because I've played a lot of D&D and Magic, but, even before really getting into Fire Emblem, I could pretty easily recognize the Marth-s, at least, as being Knights/Nobles, due to their notable focus on swordsmanship, outfits, and overall general demeanor.

When I think of a nobles i think of funny men with long noses, fruity outfits, and powdered wigs

 

[HansShotFirst20]

Vaati's (technically) the third most recurring villain in the Legend of Zelda series, only behind Dark Link and Ganon/Ganondorf.

I feel like any new Zelda reps are likely to be a new version of either Zelda or Ganon -- that just seems to be the way Nintendo likes doing things. The possible exceptions IMO would be characters that are new to/have a very major role in BotW2, but we don't know jack about that game so who knows.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

A ditz with power is more personality than all the playable avatar characters in smash that dont have a hint of personality lmao

Tbf Smash is ****ing awful with handling characters who've uttered at least 5 sentences in a single game. Wonder how many people will be shocked to learn Shulk's not energetic or playful when people play Xenoblade DE

 

[HansShotFirst20]

Tbf Smash is ****ing awful with handling characters who've uttered at least 5 sentences in a single game. Wonder how many people will be shocked to learn Shulk's not energetic or playful when people play Xenoblade DE

>boots up a DKC game for the first time
"he can talk?"

 

[Undella2]

When I think of a nobles i think of funny men with long noses, fruity outfits, and powdered wigs

There are those types of nobles, sure, but there are also the types of nobles and kings found in works such as Lord of the Rings and whatnot who wield swords, wear armour, and charge into battle, similar, at least to some extent, to the Sword-Lords of Fire Emblem.

 

[Captain Shwampy]

Tbf Smash is ****ing awful with handling characters who've uttered at least 5 sentences in a single game. Wonder how many people will be shocked to learn Shulk's not energetic or playful when people play Xenoblade DE

Me when mario says "THANK YOU FOR PLAYING MY GAME"

 

[Garteam]

Keeping in mind Nintendo of Japan has an entire section of their website devoted to Fire Emblem, an honour only shared by Mario, Pokemon, Splatoon and Animal Crossing. As such, I'd say Nintendo sees it as about equal with Animal Crossing and Splatoon.

Personally, if I had to gander how Nintendo ranks their franchises, this is how I think it goes

A: , , , Smash
B: , ,
Upper C: , , ,
Lower C: , , ,
Dead, but still good for frequent references and rereleases: , , ,

I'm not sure where Nintendo sees ARMS. I think its somewhere in C tier, but I'm not sure it would be upper or lower.

 

[PLATINUM7]

Tbf Smash is ****ing awful with handling characters who've uttered at least 5 sentences in a single game. Wonder how many people will be shocked to learn Shulk's not energetic or playful when people play Xenoblade DE

Maybe it's the delivery or just because of the trailers for XB that I've seen but Shulk's, "I can change the future" line always sticks out to me more than anything else.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Maybe it's the delivery or just because of the trailers for XB that I've seen but Shulk's, "I can change the future" line always sticks out to me more than anything else.

You mean from his win quote? Ironically enough Shulk sounds determined, confident in his newfound strength which reflects his personality more than "AHM REELY FEELIN IT >:D" or "Here's Reyn's quote"

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Personally, this kind of reinforced my belief that Spring Man, Ribbon Girl, and Min Min are similar enough to work as alts.



I think FE is closer to C tier. Animal Crossing, Splatoon, and Smash aren't quite as big as Mario, Pokemon, and Zelda, but they're definitely bigger than FE, Kirby, and Yoshi.

Just saying you don't get multiple games, an anime movie, a trading card game and a popular mobile game for like 30 years between the NES era and now if your a C tier series.

Vaati's (technically) the third most recurring villain in the Legend of Zelda series, only behind Dark Link and Ganon/Ganondorf.



It might just be because I've played a lot of D&D and Magic, but, even before really getting into Fire Emblem, I could pretty easily recognize the Marth-s, at least, as being Knights/Nobles, due to their notable focus on swordsmanship, outfits, and overall general demeanor.

Do people in north America just not watch enough fantasy fiction or something?

Because as a kid with no knowledge of the series when I played melee and brawl I could that Marth and Roy were nobles and that Ike was some wandering swordman.

 

[Idon]

When I think of a nobles i think of funny men with long noses, fruity outfits, and powdered wigs

You're telling me you haven't heard of any medieval fantasy in your life?

Knights, dragons, castles, princesses, all the King Arthur **** and all that? That type of stuff seems pretty embedded into pop culture by now, at least moreso than European Affluents.

 

[Undella2]

I feel like any new Zelda reps are likely to be a new version of either Zelda or Ganon -- that just seems to be the way Nintendo likes doing things. The possible exceptions IMO would be characters that are new to/have a very major role in BotW2, but we don't know jack about that game so who knows.

Which, in my opinion, is really quite unfortunate, to be honest.

As the triforce wielders in the the Legend of Zelda franchise often use similar, if not the same, character tropes and general personalities from game to game, the side/more minor characters are really where a lot of the series' writing and whatnot shines.

Vaati, Skull Kid, any of the BOTW Champions, Midna, Ghirahim, Impa, and heck, even Tingle would all likely be more interesting, overall, character picks for Smash than Link 4, Zelda 3, or Ganondorf 2.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Tbf Smash is ****ing awful with handling characters who've uttered at least 5 sentences in a single game. Wonder how many people will be shocked to learn Shulk's not energetic or playful when people play Xenoblade DE

Eh. There's only so much you can do to show a deep character's personality in a game that doesn't let them do much other than fight. Most of what Shulk says are direct quotes from Xenoblade Chronicles, but with a different delivery. Like, the "I'm really feeling it" line is super subdued in Xenoblade Chronicles, and kinda sounds kinda creepy to be honest.

EDIT: I do think they made Chrom way too angry though. It's probably the voice clip they attached to his recovery.

"Here's Reyn's quote"

Yeah that one doesn't quite fit.

Just saying you don't get multiple games, an anime movie, a trading card game and a popular mobile game for like 30 years between the NES era and now if your a C tier series.

But Maaaarrrs!

 

[Captain Shwampy]

Do people in north America just not watch enough fantasy fiction or something?

Because as a kid with no knowledge of the series when I played melee and brawl I could that Marth and Roy were nobles and that Ike was some wandering swordman.

You're telling me you haven't heard of any medieval fantasy in your life?

Knights, dragons, castles, princesses, all the King Arthur **** and all that? That type of stuff seems pretty embedded into pop culture by now, at least moreso than European Affluents.

I just viewed FE characters as shoujo-ish swordsman

I never really considered the nobles thing

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

The male & female Byleths have different taunts and victory animations, so an ARMS amalgam could have them, too.

Also, ARMS is waaaayyyy different from the fighting game characters that have been represented in Smash so far -- it's a 3-d arena fighter, and the fighter 'movesets' are miniscule, with the combat being focused more on the nuances of the movement and attacks than combos and whatnot. I don't see Sakurai and his team placing the same emphasis on accuracy for an ARMS character, given you can't just pull them out of their game and put them into Smash like the Shotos and Terry.

Ok, two of Byleth’s victory animations are slightly different, so I gues there is that, but their taunts are identical. It seems clear that they don’t want skins having any animation differences in battle.

It would be weird seeing other characters bobbing up and down the way Springman does, it doesn’t fit their personalities/styles and they’d be unable to showcase their distinct movements or their personalities through taunts.

To me it would be like Ryu having 3 shoto clones as his alts, it just feels like a bastardization of the characters, and I don’t think they would do that. Sakurai has already talked about how he has to communicate with series game developers to make sure they are satisfied with how their characters are represented.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Ok, two of Byleth’s victory animations are slightly different, so I gues there is that, but their taunts are identical. It seems clear that they don’t want skins having any animation differences in game.

Their idle stances are different.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Honestly, Marth and Roy always felt like noble-ish swordsman to me. Albeit, it helps I grew up with various medieval culture influences too. I never once go a Shoujo vibe from them.

I know Fire Emblem has an anime, though I forget which game it's based upon.

 

[Idon]

Ok, two of Byleth’s victory animations are slightly different, so I gues there is that, but their taunts are identical. It seems clear that they don’t want skins having any animation differences in battle.

It would be weird seeing other characters bobbing up and down the way Springman does, it doesn’t fit their personalities/styles and they’d be unable to showcase their distinct movements or their personalities through taunts.

To me it would be like Ryu having 3 shoto clones as his alts, it just feels like a bastardization of the characters, and I don’t think they would do that. Sakurai has already talked about how he has to communicate with series game developers to make sure they are satisfied with how their characters are represented.

Except the shotoclones have a ton of different moves.
You put them side-by-side and you can see with your own eyes every difference with every function being different as well.
You put Ribbon Girl and Springman side to side and the only difference you'll be able to tell won't be from the moveset, because the only moves there are are left punch and right punch.

Their differences lie in their facial expressions, taunts, stances, idling animations, victory poses, etc, everything not related to the core gameplay, things male and female Byleth have shown can be different within the very same character. Trust me, I've noted every difference between them.

TL;DR, where the hell is Garou Terry, Sakurai you have no excuse anymore

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Their idle stances are different.

**** you’re right. I didn’t even realize they hold their swords slightly differently. That’s interesting.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I know Fire Emblem has an anime, though I forget which game it's based upon.

Probably Fire Emblem: Shadow Dragon and the Blade of Light and/or Fire Emblem: Mystery of the Emblem. These are the only two games that star "Mars", with the latter being a direct sequel to the former.

 

[Undella2]

Differences between multiple skins on one "character" likely don't matter, in the grand scheme of things, as long as actual gameplay (ie: attack speed, hitboxes, etc.) aren't changed at all from skin to skin.

That's how I see it, anyway.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Probably Fire Emblem: Shadow Dragon and the Blade of Light and/or Fire Emblem: Mystery of the Emblem. These are the only two games that star "Mars", with the latter being a direct sequel to the former.

The last one was the one I was thinking of. Note that I saw none of these either. I found out about FE through Nintendo only, mainly Smash. I think I heard of it beforehand.

I do remember the 4 part Final Fantasy thing, though. Not sure if it was an OVA or an Anime.

 

[Captain Shwampy]

I think another issue with lord designs are the armor
They just look, boring? too simple? not exaggerated?

Like you look at Langrisser designs and they have BIG ass cartoony exaggerated Pauldrons and broad shoulders. Even the woman have it.
Its beautiful and appealing, it adds so much.

in comparison:

lol

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I think another issue with lord designs are the armor
They just look, boring? too simple? not exaggerated?

Like you look at Langrisser designs and they have BIG ass cartoony exaggerated Pauldrons and broad shoulders. Even the woman have it.
Its beautiful and appealing, it adds so much.
in comparison:

I mean, the knights usually have big pauldrons but...

Spoiler: Image

The only good thing that came out of this design is this hilarious tackle attack they do sometimes.

EDIT: To be fair, the older games had way better knight designs.

 

[PLATINUM7]

I think another issue with lord designs are the armor
They just look, boring? too simple? not exaggerated?

Like you look at Langrisser designs and they have BIG ass cartoony exaggerated Pauldrons and broad shoulders. Even the woman have it.
Its beautiful and appealing, it adds so much.

in comparison:

lol

They look like they'd bump into a lot of things.

Can't say I see the appeal in them.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

If they could alter each skins idle animations to reflect the characters more accurately without changing hitboxes along with unique victory animations then I’d be down with the idea.

 

[Captain Shwampy]

They look like they'd bump into a lot of things.

Can't say I see the appeal in them.

You think small
I think BIG

No one would be complaining about fire emblem characters if they were skull bashing mother****ers on the floor with some spiked out huge paulodrons.

 

[PLATINUM7]

You think small
I think BIG

No one would be complaining about fire emblem characters if they were skull bashing mother****ers on the floor with some spiked out huge paulodrons.

If there were still 8 of them people would.

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

There are those types of nobles, sure, but there are also the types of nobles and kings found in works such as Lord of the Rings and whatnot who wield swords, wear armour, and charge into battle, similar, at least to some extent, to the Sword-Lords of Fire Emblem.

The two different images of nobility come from shifting roles of the aristocracy overtime from the medieval era to the early modern period.

in medieval Europe, nobles were a social class of warriors, they had exclusive rights for military training and equipment, providing protection to serfs who worked the land. Most of this class were made up of Knights, as such Chivalric codes and motifs are heavily associated with nobles even today in popular culture. This is where the Lotr imagine or Fire Emblem image come from.

Over time, technological changes made knights less effective at war and larger, less trained armies became the norm. As such, the noble class shed a lot of its military trappings, instead focusing on landownership and filling positions in the expanding bureaucracy of the now more centralized governments of states across Europe in the early modern period. This is where the frilly, powdered wig image of the noble comes from.

I think another issue with lord designs are the armor
They just look, boring? too simple? not exaggerated?

Like you look at Langrisser designs and they have BIG ass cartoony exaggerated Pauldrons and broad shoulders. Even the woman have it.
Its beautiful and appealing, it adds so much.



in comparison:


lol

Personally those look really dumb, but I also think WoW’s oversized pauldrons look dumb as well.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Honestly? I prefer smaller armor/not going overboard for regular designs. I like Marth cause he's simple yet effective. I mean, if he gets an upgraded armor, sure, adds some more. But he feels justttttt right.

I've done a lot of designs myself for various Ranger suits. I've found it best to never go overboard for the "normal" design. That doesn't make them stand out in a good way, imo. It just tries too hard. You don't need to do that. It can still work, like in Saint Seiya, but almost all the major suits are also those in pure battle armor and not what they look like normally. They're actually high-ranking soldiers under a deity, and the armor is meant to represent their particular thing(like someone who represents the Snake, or a Dragon, etc.)

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

Personally I like my medieval fantasy armor a little more subtle, but that's really a taste thing. Alm probably has one of my favorite armor designs in FE.



There are some FE characters with really chunky armor, but alas we haven't gotten any in Smash. Edelgard or the Black knight would have been our best chance at something close to that.

 

[Trevenant]

If they could alter each skins idle animations to reflect the characters more accurately without changing hitboxes along with unique victory animations then I’d be down with the idea.

Yeah I think most are in that boat. They could be a skin if they are represented properly. If not then they’re probably better off not there at all