Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Deleted member]

hmmm.

Bringing up Layton reminds me of a question I had for some people:
Why support 'peaceful' (characters who's games have no real combat/action mechanics) characters for smash, like Phoenix, Arle, Layton, or Tom Nook? They, in and of themselves, wouldn't necessarily bring anything new to the table -- given their moveset is pretty much entirely abstract anyway a la VIllager/Isabelle/R.O.B.. Is it just for the sake of the crossover/representation? If so, why not settle for and AT/Mii costume/ Spirits?

Not 'attacking'/'****ting on'/doubting/dismissing fans of these characters, I just want to know.

people like characters and they want to play as them

 

[HansShotFirst20]

people like characters and they want to play as them

people like characters and they want to play as them

better get rid of the double post mods don't like that.

 

[Curious Villager]

hmmm.

Bringing up Layton reminds me of a question I had for some people:
Why support 'peaceful' (characters who's games have no real combat/action mechanics) characters for smash, like Phoenix, Arle, Layton, or Tom Nook? They, in and of themselves, wouldn't necessarily bring anything new to the table -- given their moveset is pretty much entirely abstract anyway a la VIllager/Isabelle/R.O.B.. Is it just for the sake of the crossover/representation? If so, why not settle for and AT/Mii costume/ Spirits?

Not 'attacking'/'****ting on'/doubting/dismissing fans of these characters, I just want to know.

>Layton
>Peaceful

The man deals with homicidal maniac's who want him dead in pretty much every game...

Gameplay wise, sure, it's more of a puzzle adventure game, storywise, there is quite a lot going on and Layton himself has fought quite a lot over the course of the series with all sorts of weapons and gadgets. Definitely more to work with than some of the characters already in the game.

All in all, the reason people want these characters isn't really any different to why people want any other characters, people like their games and want to see them join the roster.
After getting the likes of Villager, Isabelle and Wii Fit Trainer in the game, I don't see what would make these characters any more odd to have.

 

[CHAMPIONX9]

hmmm.

Bringing up Layton reminds me of a question I had for some people:
Why support 'peaceful' (characters who's games have no real combat/action mechanics) characters for smash, like Phoenix, Arle, Layton, or Tom Nook? They, in and of themselves, wouldn't necessarily bring anything new to the table -- given their moveset is pretty much entirely abstract anyway a la VIllager/Isabelle/R.O.B.. Is it just for the sake of the crossover/representation? If so, why not settle for and AT/Mii costume/ Spirits?

Not 'attacking'/'****ting on'/doubting/dismissing fans of these characters, I just want to know.

Boring moveset vs puzzle power and shouting objection. The amount off stuff you get from a full character rather than mii is order of magnitudes higher. In addition to stages, musics, and references, and moves referencing the games. Since you just wanna know I'll let you know that you already knew the answer, it was inside you all along.

 

[HansShotFirst20]

>Layton
>Peaceful

The man deals with homicidal maniac's who want him dead in pretty much every game...

Gameplay wise, sure, it's more of a puzzle adventure game, storywise, there is quite a lot going on and Layton himself has fought quite a lot over the course of the series with all sorts of weapons and gadgets. Definitely more to work with than some of the characters already in the game.

All in all, the reason people want these characters isn't really any different to why people want any other characters, people like their games and want to see them join the roster.
After getting the likes of Villager, Isabelle and Wii Fit Trainer in the game, I don't see what would make these characters any more odd to have.

I see. Generally, how excited I get at the prospect of a character being in Smash is proportional to how naturally that character's native mechanics (be it a combo system, fighting game mechanics, what have you) translate into Smash --capturing the most essence of the character -- but it's as you say, that's absolutely not a requirement.

I just wanted to know if people wanted specific mechanics from 'peaceful' series to get in, or if they just wanted the crossover.



Conspiracy theory time: Phoenix Wright was supposed to be revealed in a direct, but said reveal was cancelled, as Phoenix's sneeze-based moveset (a la MvC3) would cause controversy, given the ongoing epidemic.

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

hmmm.

Bringing up Layton reminds me of a question I had for some people:
Why support 'peaceful' (characters who's games have no real combat/action mechanics) characters for smash, like Phoenix, Arle, Layton, or Tom Nook? They, in and of themselves, wouldn't necessarily bring anything new to the table -- given their moveset is pretty much entirely abstract anyway a la VIllager/Isabelle/R.O.B.. Is it just for the sake of the crossover/representation? If so, why not settle for and AT/Mii costume/ Spirits?

Not 'attacking'/'****ting on'/doubting/dismissing fans of these characters, I just want to know.

Unconventional characters are fun, some of the most "unlikely" fighters have some of my favorite playsyles.

Also unconventional characters often have hilarious moves, which goes great with how slapstick Smash is.

Some gets slashed by a sword? Meh.
Some one gets punched? Meh.
Some just got hit on the head with Villager's forward Smash?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

hmmm.

Bringing up Layton reminds me of a question I had for some people:
Why support 'peaceful' (characters who's games have no real combat/action mechanics) characters for smash, like Phoenix, Arle, Layton, or Tom Nook? They, in and of themselves, wouldn't necessarily bring anything new to the table -- given their moveset is pretty much entirely abstract anyway a la VIllager/Isabelle/R.O.B.. Is it just for the sake of the crossover/representation? If so, why not settle for and AT/Mii costume/ Spirits?

Not 'attacking'/'****ting on'/doubting/dismissing fans of these characters, I just want to know.

Another reason is the creativity behind them, three of your examples are VERY easy to imagine, Layton's got a machinegun and sword alongside other potential mechanics, Arle didn't actually debut in Puyo Puyo but rather an RPG with a buncha spells as she's a witch by default and for our favourite lawyer Nick? Well, look at MvC3, people ADORED him when he was leaked for it and was one of the first leaked ones (the game's website let you find characters by searching them in the web address, Pheonix was one of the first names people tried and Nemesis was the last one people found as they used Nemesis T1000 iirc)

 

[HansShotFirst20]

Unconventional characters are fun, some of the most "unlikely" fighters have some of my favorite playsyles.

Also unconventional characters often have hilarious moves, which goes great with how slapstick Smash is.

Some gets slashed by a sword? Meh.
Some one gets punched? Meh.
Some just got hit on the head with Villager's forward Smash?

everyone has their own tastes, I guess. I tend to prefer characters who are more conventionally 'cool' (save for Waluigi, who would be the supreme jank/joke/slapstick character)

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I would LOVE to see Ori and the Will of the Wisps in the Nindies direct, but I doubt they’d port it so soon...

 

[TheCJBrine]

There is only one thing that can save us from this Fire Emblem talk: a Fun Forum Game™. Click this link, whoever you get is the first character in FP6. Even if it is the credits to the Minish Cap.
https://nintendo.fandom.com/wiki/Special:Random
I got... the bannana cup.

I got Kirby: Nightmare in Dream Land.

AT upgrades proven ftw.

Also, regarding the Direct leak; even without it, don’t general Directs usually happen soon after an indie one anyway?

Though I guess the last indie direct was in November or sometime, I think, so maybe not...

 

[HansShotFirst20]

Another reason is the creativity behind them, three of your examples are VERY easy to imagine, Layton's got a machinegun and sword alongside other potential mechanics, Arle didn't actually debut in Puyo Puyo but rather an RPG with a buncha spells as she's a witch by default and for our favourite lawyer Nick? Well, look at MvC3, people ADORED him when he was leaked for it and was one of the first leaked ones (the game's website let you find characters by searching them in the web address, Pheonix was one of the first names people tried and Nemesis was the last one people found as they used Nemesis T1000 iirc)

It's not that I don't like these characters (villager was my first smash bros main), nor is it that I don't think you could make a moveset for these characters (Villager, Wii Fit, R.O.B., Duck Hunt, G&W, Plant, this list goes on), it's that I don't see why these characters are the best choices for a fighting game specifically.

Sure, Layton's used a machine gun and Phoenix has been in a fighting game, but shooting machine guns and punching people aren't what Professor Layton and Ace Attorney are about. You can make a moveset for Phoenix using his source material, but you can't put the essence of Ace Attorney into a fighting game.

I play a ****ton of Civ 3, and think Civilization as a whole deserves some sort of representation in Smash (given it's on the Switch), but if Otto von Bismarck got added to Smash, I'd be disappointed, as the essence of civilization wouldn't translate into a fighting game moveset --I'd just have a Civilization fighter for the sake of having a fighter, and would lose out on something like a Sid Meier's pirate's character (underrated classic btw).

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

everyone has their own tastes, I guess. I tend to prefer characters who are more conventionally 'cool' (save for Waluigi, who would be the supreme jank/joke/slapstick character)

I mean I don't every new character to be unconventional, I hate for all the new characters to be all "cool" or all "cute".

Part of the beauty of Smash is the clashing of tones and styles, it has something for nearly everyone.

It's not that I don't like these characters (villager was my first smash bros main), nor is it that I don't think you could make a moveset for these characters (Villager, Wii Fit, R.O.B., Duck Hunt, G&W, Plant, this list goes on), it's that I don't see why these characters are the best choices for a fighting game specifically.

Sure, Layton's used a machine gun and Phoenix has been in a fighting game, but shooting machine guns and punching people aren't what Professor Layton and Ace Attorney are about. You can make a moveset for Phoenix using his source material, but you can't put the essence of Ace Attorney into a fighting game.

I play a ****ton of Civ 3, and think Civilization as a whole deserves some sort of representation in Smash (given it's on the Switch), but if Otto von Bismarck got added to Smash, I'd be disappointed, as the essence of civilization wouldn't translate into a fighting game moveset --I'd just have a Civilization fighter for the sake of having a fighter, and would lose out on something like a Sid Meier's pirate's character (underrated classic btw).

The whole part of Phoenix Wright in MvC is that he didn't just punch people, his moveset literally has him collecting evidence to to build his "case", which he uses to unleash a supper attack were he proves the enemy is guilty.

Also yes Pirates! is a great game and I hope we get some Civ content in Smash in terms of spirits

 

[Guynamednelson]

think Civilization as a whole deserves some sort of representation in Smash

Ghandi spirit battle involving tons of Moon ATs.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

It's not that I don't like these characters (villager was my first smash bros main), nor is it that I don't think you could make a moveset for these characters (Villager, Wii Fit, R.O.B., Duck Hunt, G&W, Plant, this list goes on), it's that I don't see why these characters are the best choices for a fighting game specifically.

Sure, Layton's used a machine gun and Phoenix has been in a fighting game, but shooting machine guns and punching people aren't what Professor Layton and Ace Attorney are about. You can make a moveset for Phoenix using his source material, but you can't put the essence of Ace Attorney into a fighting game.

I play a ****ton of Civ 3, and think Civilization as a whole deserves some sort of representation in Smash (given it's on the Switch), but if Otto von Bismarck got added to Smash, I'd be disappointed, as the essence of civilization wouldn't translate into a fighting game moveset --I'd just have a Civilization fighter for the sake of having a fighter, and would lose out on something like a Sid Meier's pirate's character (underrated classic btw).

I get what you mean but I disagree with your 'essence' point as Nick actually adapted that surprisingly well in MvC3, Investigation mode is Nick at his worst, he knows nothing about the case and the investigations tend to feel slower in the games too, which reflects on his pitiful stats and frame data. Courtroom mode is where things get interesting, you have your evidence, so it's up to you to use it when applicable, at this part of every trial, players tend to feel more easy as they've gotten most of the facts and tend to be more mentally prepared for the crossexaminations. Turnabout mode though? The highlight! The thrill of tasting your victory no matter how far away it seemed is an experience that gets my blood pumping, I have all the facts and the arguments are in my favour, I can only lose by screwing up badly at this point, which is reflected as Pheonix becomes ****ing broken in Turnabout Mode for MvC3

 

[Curious Villager]

Sure, Layton's used a machine gun and Phoenix has been in a fighting game, but shooting machine guns and punching people aren't what Professor Layton and Ace Attorney are about. You can make a moveset for Phoenix using his source material, but you can't put the essence of Ace Attorney into a fighting game.

There are various puzzles Layton can use as well such as a sleep bomb, fake arrows, a totem hammer as well as the trunk puzzles with the toy automobile and the animal buddies. The character is very flexible so I don't really see Sakurai struggling too much to come up with something that can work for the character as well as representing the 'essence' of his series well.

 

[SNEKeater]

hmmm.

Bringing up Layton reminds me of a question I had for some people:
Why support 'peaceful' (characters who's games have no real combat/action mechanics) characters for smash, like Phoenix, Arle, Layton, or Tom Nook? They, in and of themselves, wouldn't necessarily bring anything new to the table -- given their moveset is pretty much entirely abstract anyway a la VIllager/Isabelle/R.O.B.. Is it just for the sake of the crossover/representation? If so, why not settle for and AT/Mii costume/ Spirits?

Not 'attacking'/'****ting on'/doubting/dismissing fans of these characters, I just want to know.

Well besides the fact that people want to play with their fave character, I do hope we will get a "peaceful" character for next pass, or at least someone who could fit that category. They usually can bring a lot of options, some of them are almost a blank slate.

I don't think having Phoenix/Arle/Layton or any character of that type would be redundant or anything. They would be very unique, and if these characters can be considered redundant because we already have Villager or Isabelle then a lot of suggested characters should be discarded because we could find similarities with fighters that are already in Smash.

 

[osby]

It's not that I don't like these characters (villager was my first smash bros main), nor is it that I don't think you could make a moveset for these characters (Villager, Wii Fit, R.O.B., Duck Hunt, G&W, Plant, this list goes on), it's that I don't see why these characters are the best choices for a fighting game specifically.

Sure, Layton's used a machine gun and Phoenix has been in a fighting game, but shooting machine guns and punching people aren't what Professor Layton and Ace Attorney are about. You can make a moveset for Phoenix using his source material, but you can't put the essence of Ace Attorney into a fighting game.

I play a ****ton of Civ 3, and think Civilization as a whole deserves some sort of representation in Smash (given it's on the Switch), but if Otto von Bismarck got added to Smash, I'd be disappointed, as the essence of civilization wouldn't translate into a fighting game moveset --I'd just have a Civilization fighter for the sake of having a fighter, and would lose out on something like a Sid Meier's pirate's character (underrated classic btw).

To be fair, "essence" is a vague term and it can kinda mean anything.

If I consider Ace Attorney is about its characters, making Phoenix playable with animations to portray his personality would be a good representation of the series.

 

[Louie G.]

It's not that I don't like these characters (villager was my first smash bros main), nor is it that I don't think you could make a moveset for these characters (Villager, Wii Fit, R.O.B., Duck Hunt, G&W, Plant, this list goes on), it's that I don't see why these characters are the best choices for a fighting game specifically.

For me I just grow tired of seeing conventional choices prioritized over the "outside the box" fighters who really only happen in Smash. Last pass was fine, but as some of my favorite characters are from Rhythm or Puzzle games I kind of worry that Nintendo's priorities are different than my own... they're "safe" choices; protagonists from Platformer, RPG, Fighting games, I love a lot of these games but I just like to see more variety.

For me Smash is largely about giving those weirder choices a shot. Someone like Arle or Phoenix feels perfect for Smash because of the precedent Smash has set, like you mentioned, with all those characters (several of which I believe to be some of the shining jewels of the series). I want to see wacky oddball choices, I want to have Sakurai's creativity continue to be put to the test and to create great movesets out of stacking puyos or collecting evidence. Smash is the best place for this to happen.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

I'd love to have a character from Granblue, especially after playing Granblue Fantasy Versus. Narmaya, Lancelot, Zooey, Zeta, Gran, Lowain, Katalina (in order of most wanted to least), any one of them would be great to have in Smash, Wahey!

> Narmaya and Lancelot as most favorite

See that? That's some good taste.

I don't doubt it has a chance. A lot of people like it, and they are branching out into making multiple console games for it. My main issue is that it's simply not something I give any amount of a **** about. If it happens it happens, but I can't get invested into it on a personal level.

Who knows, maybe hell will freeze over and their Rock Howard Homage would sneak his way in, otherwise, it's just not my thing.

Honestly dude I'd suggest you try it out. It's not too hard to get in to, as all you have to do is make a Japanese iTunes account of download it from Qooapp on Android and then change the language to English. The 6th anniversary is going on right now so everyone's getting an absolute ****-ton of rolls, and the game is incredibly generous to f2p players otherwise.

The main story is a bit generic (as of what I've played, but apparently it picks up later), but the characters are fun and the gameplay is enjoyable. It's an all-around good time.

Personally, I think if we get a mobile rep, it'll be Euden, if only because Dragalia Lost is Nintendo's first original mobile game, and thus have good reason to promote it. That being said, Granblue makes a lot of sense too.

Euden...doesn't have moveset potential. In the slightest.

If you've played Dragalia Lost (which I have as I played it before picking up Granblue) you'd know that Euden is the epitome of a generic swordfighter. This makes sense since Dragalia Lost uses elements and weapon archetypes for base moveset and unique special attacks, but Euden's special attacks are hella generic. He uses flames, has a wave attack and a spin attack and can change into a dragon like Corrin or Charizard (who is pretty much a dragon). Even then, dragons are presented like a super, so they'd likely be relegated to his Final Smash.

If you use his Gala edition (which I doubt Sakurai would as it's non-canon) you open up the opportunity for elemental light AoE attacks, but that's about it. You could have him fight using the weapons of his friends, but then that makes him similar to Byleth using the Heroes Relics of the three house leaders.

In terms of moveset potential Granblue has Dragalia Lost sorely beat. It's also more popular so it has that going for it.

 

[HansShotFirst20]

Aight.

Franchises you want represented by Spirits because they have an absolutely 0% of getting in as anything playable:

I've got:
Civilization
Ace Combat
Rivals of Aether
Armored Core

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Aight.

Franchises you want represented by Spirits because they have an absolutely 0% of getting in as anything playable:

I've got:
Civilization
Ace Combat
Rivals of Aether
Armored Core

Liar Princess and the Blind Prince, without a doubt

 

[HansShotFirst20]

Well besides the fact that people want to play with their fave character, I do hope we will get a "peaceful" character for next pass, or at least someone who could fit that category. They usually can bring a lot of options, some of them are almost a blank slate.

I don't think having Phoenix/Arle/Layton or any character of that type would be redundant or anything. They would be very unique, and if these characters can be considered redundant because we already have Villager or Isabelle then a lot of suggested characters should be discarded because we could find similarities with fighters that are already in Smash.

I'm not arguing that they'd be redundant, or even that they shouldn't get in; I'm just asking whether people see some sort of secret combat potential in these characters, or if they just want the crossover to happen -- and then stating my case that I, personally, tend get less excited over these characters, as they tend to be more of a collection of references to that character (a la villager and wii fit) as opposed to that character pulled out of their game and put into smash (a la Mega Man, Ryu/Ken, or Bayonetta), which I think adds a lot more to Smash both as a game and as a crossover. One can see why the newcomers I root for most -- Dante, Sol, Nightmare, and Doomguy, are all from franchises with action, combos, platforming, and/or close quarters combat central to their gameplay and mechanics (if they aren't from fighting games to begin with). IMO, the less you have to change about the way a character operates to get them to fit into smash, the more eagerly I will anticipate and support that character (after they're added, though, it's anything goes. I love the way Byleth was implemented and they're from a turn based-game).

It's not a discussing of deserves to/should get in, it's just a matter of hype.

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

Aight.

Franchises you want represented by Spirits because they have an absolutely 0% of getting in as anything playable:

I've got:
Civilization
Ace Combat
Rivals of Aether
Armored Core

Ha! Someone on Discord asked this awhile back and I also had Civ and Ace Combat as spirits I wanted.

I'd like to see Killer instinct, Valkyria Chronicles, and Octopath traveler get some Spirits. I made hypothetical spirit events for them already.

Spoiler: Valkyria Chronicles Spirit Event

Welkin
Fighter:Blue alt ( Allies)
Spirit Battle Conditions:
1. The Enemy has Super Armor but moves slower
2. Reinforcements will appear during the battle (3 foxes)
3. Enemy favors Special attacks
Stage: Reset Bomb Forest (First Section only)
Music: Space Battleground
Spirit Type: Support
Rank: ★

Alicia
Fighter: Blue Alt.
Spirit Battle Conditions:
1. The enemy has increased attack power at high health
2. The enemy has increased defense at high health
3. The enemy has increased movement speed at high health
Stage: Paper Mario (Windmill section)
Music: One of A Kind
Spirit Type: Neutral
Rank: ★★

Selvaria
Fighter: Red alt.
Spirit Battle Conditions:
1. Certain items will appear in large numbers (Daybreaker)
2. Items gravitate towards enemy
3. The enemy is reflective
Stage: Halberd
Music: The Legend of Aesir
Spirit Type: Attack
Rank: ★★★

Crymaria
Fighter: Purple/Cyan Alt. ( and allies)
Spirit Battle Conditions:
1. Reinforcements appear during the battle
2. The Enemy will occasional become invincible
3. The Enemy can unleash powerful critical hits at random
Stage: Summit (Battlefield form)
Music: Destroyed Skyworld
Spirit Type: Defensive
Rank: ★★★

Spoiler: Octopath Spirit Event

Ophilia
Fighter:
Spirit Battle Conditions:
1. The enemy' is reflects projectiles.
2. The enemy starts with a Hothead item.
3. The enemy heals damage overtime.
Stage: Summit
Music: Swan Lesson
Spirit Type: Support
Rank: ★★

Cyrus
Fighter:
Spirit Battle Conditions:
1. The enemy's special moves have increased power
2. The enemy starts the battle with a Freezie item.
3. The enemy favors special attacks.
Stage: Princess' Peach's Castle
Music: Battle! Lore Keeper Zinna
Spirit Type: Attack
Rank: ★★★

Tressa
Fighter: Grey Alt.
Spirit Battle Conditions:
1. Dangerously high winds in effect
2. Items appear in waves
3. The Enemy is easily distracted by items
Stage: Pirate Ship
Music: Kass' Theme
Spirit Type: Balanced
Rank: ★

Olbric
Fighter:
Spirit Battle Conditions:
1. Take your Strongest team into this no-frills battle!
Stage: Colosseum
Music: Magnus Theme
Spirit Type: Defense
Rank: ★★★

Primrose
Fighter: Red alt.
Spirit Battle Conditions:
1. The Enemy will suddenly have Finial Smashes
2. The Enemy can use their Final Smash twice in a row
3. The Enemy likes to taunt
Stage: Mushroomy Kingdom (Final destination)
Music: Gritzy Desert
Spirit Type: Support
Rank: ★★★★

Alfyn
Fighter:
Spirit Battle Conditions:
1. You Constanly take minor damage
2. The floor is poisonous
3. The enemy heals at critical health
Stage: Smashville
Music: Guar Plain Night
Spirit Type: Support
Rank: ★

Therion
Fighter: Indigo Alt.
Spirit Battle Conditions:
1. Enemy is easily distracted by items
2. The Enemy deals random critical hits
3. Items are attracted to the enemy
Stage: Gerudo Valley
Music: Hidden Village
Spirit Type: Grab
Rank: ★★

H'annit
Fighter: White Alt.
Spirit Battle Conditions:
1. Hostile Assist trophies will appear (Rathalos)
2. The enemies ranged attacks have increased power
Stage: Kongo Falls
Music: Hyrule Castle: Outside
Spirit Type: Attack
Rank: ★★

Spoiler: Killer Instinct Spirit Event

Jago
Fighter: Blue Alt.
Spirit Battle Conditions:
1. The enemy starts the battle with a Killing Edge.
2. The enemy can heal by shielding attacks.
3. Stamina Battle
Stage: Wuhu Island (Bridge Section)
Music: Fei Long Stage Type B
Spirit Type: Attack
Rank: ★★

B. Orchid
Fighter: Green Alt.
Spirit Battle Conditions:
1. The enemy starts the battle with a Beam Sword
2. The Enemies Kicks have Increased power
3. Stamina Battle
Stage: Fourside
Music: Super Sonic Racing
Spirit Type: Grab
Rank: ★

Glacius
Fighter: Grey alt.
Spirit Battle Conditions:
1. The Floor is Frozen
2. The enemy starts with a Freezie
3. Stamina Battle
Stage: Frigate Orpheon (Omega Form)
Music: Brain Cleaner
Spirit Type: Support
Rank: ★★★

Fulgore
Fighter: Gray Alt
Spirit Battle Conditions:
1. Metal Enemy
2. The enemy turns invisible after a little while
3. Stamina battle
Stage: Shadow Moses Island
Music: Metal Man Stage
Spirit Type: Balanced
Rank: ★★★★

 

[SNEKeater]

Sure, Layton's used a machine gun and Phoenix has been in a fighting game, but shooting machine guns and punching people aren't what Professor Layton and Ace Attorney are about. You can make a moveset for Phoenix using his source material, but you can't put the essence of Ace Attorney into a fighting game.

Didn't read this, and I get your point. I think it's a valid observation. But as osby said, the essence of a franchise isn't always the same for everyone. For Ace Attorney, while the court sessions are a big part of the games, when I thought about the series the characters are the first thing that come to my mind.
Also, it's not like we don't have characters with movesets that don't resemble at all with what the character series is known for. You don't scream Falcon Punch in F-Zero games, not to mention that Captain Falcon doesn't fight in his series (well, at least he doesn't in F-Zero GX, the one I played).

 

[HansShotFirst20]

Ha! Someone on Discord asked this awhile back and I also had Civ and Ace Combat as spirits I wanted.

I'd like to see Killer instinct, Valkyria Chronicles, and Octopath traveler get some Spirits. I made hypothetical spirit events for them already.

Spoiler: Valkyria Chronicles Spirit Event

Welkin
Fighter:Blue alt ( Allies)
Spirit Battle Conditions:
1. The Enemy has Super Armor but moves slower
2. Reinforcements will appear during the battle (3 foxes)
3. Enemy favors Special attacks
Stage: Reset Bomb Forest (First Section only)
Music: Space Battleground
Spirit Type: Support
Rank: ★

Alicia
Fighter: Blue Alt.
Spirit Battle Conditions:
1. The enemy has increased attack power at high health
2. The enemy has increased defense at high health
3. The enemy has increased movement speed at high health
Stage: Paper Mario (Windmill section)
Music: One of A Kind
Spirit Type: Neutral
Rank: ★★

Selvaria
Fighter: Red alt.
Spirit Battle Conditions:
1. Certain items will appear in large numbers (Daybreaker)
2. Items gravitate towards enemy
3. The enemy is reflective
Stage: Halberd
Music: The Legend of Aesir
Spirit Type: Attack
Rank: ★★★

Crymaria
Fighter: Purple/Cyan Alt. ( and allies)
Spirit Battle Conditions:
1. Reinforcements appear during the battle
2. The Enemy will occasional become invincible
3. The Enemy can unleash powerful critical hits at random
Stage: Summit (Battlefield form)
Music: Destroyed Skyworld
Spirit Type: Defensive
Rank: ★★★

Spoiler: Octopath Spirit Event

Ophilia
Fighter:
Spirit Battle Conditions:
1. The enemy' is reflects projectiles.
2. The enemy starts with a Hothead item.
3. The enemy heals damage overtime.
Stage: Summit
Music: Swan Lesson
Spirit Type: Support
Rank: ★★

Cyrus
Fighter:
Spirit Battle Conditions:
1. The enemy's special moves have increased power
2. The enemy starts the battle with a Freezie item.
3. The enemy favors special attacks.
Stage: Princess' Peach's Castle
Music: Battle! Lore Keeper Zinna
Spirit Type: Attack
Rank: ★★★

Tressa
Fighter: Grey Alt.
Spirit Battle Conditions:
1. Dangerously high winds in effect
2. Items appear in waves
3. The Enemy is easily distracted by items
Stage: Pirate Ship
Music: Kass' Theme
Spirit Type: Balanced
Rank: ★

Olbric
Fighter:
Spirit Battle Conditions:
1. Take your Strongest team into this no-frills battle!
Stage: Colosseum
Music: Magnus Theme
Spirit Type: Defense
Rank: ★★★

Primrose
Fighter: Red alt.
Spirit Battle Conditions:
1. The Enemy will suddenly have Finial Smashes
2. The Enemy can use their Final Smash twice in a row
3. The Enemy likes to taunt
Stage: Mushroomy Kingdom (Final destination)
Music: Gritzy Desert
Spirit Type: Support
Rank: ★★★★

Alfyn
Fighter:
Spirit Battle Conditions:
1. You Constanly take minor damage
2. The floor is poisonous
3. The enemy heals at critical health
Stage: Smashville
Music: Guar Plain Night
Spirit Type: Support
Rank: ★

Therion
Fighter: Indigo Alt.
Spirit Battle Conditions:
1. Enemy is easily distracted by items
2. The Enemy deals random critical hits
3. Items are attracted to the enemy
Stage: Gerudo Valley
Music: Hidden Village
Spirit Type: Grab
Rank: ★★

H'annit
Fighter: White Alt.
Spirit Battle Conditions:
1. Hostile Assist trophies will appear (Rathalos)
2. The enemies ranged attacks have increased power
Stage: Kongo Falls
Music: Hyrule Castle: Outside
Spirit Type: Attack
Rank: ★★

Spoiler: Killer Instinct Spirit Event

Jago
Fighter: Blue Alt.
Spirit Battle Conditions:
1. The enemy starts the battle with a Killing Edge.
2. The enemy can heal by shielding attacks.
3. Stamina Battle
Stage: Wuhu Island (Bridge Section)
Music: Fei Long Stage Type B
Spirit Type: Attack
Rank: ★★

B. Orchid
Fighter: Green Alt.
Spirit Battle Conditions:
1. The enemy starts the battle with a Beam Sword
2. The Enemies Kicks have Increased power
3. Stamina Battle
Stage: Fourside
Music: Super Sonic Racing
Spirit Type: Grab
Rank: ★

Glacius
Fighter: Grey alt.
Spirit Battle Conditions:
1. The Floor is Frozen
2. The enemy starts with a Freezie
3. Stamina Battle
Stage: Frigate Orpheon (Omega Form)
Music: Brain Cleaner
Spirit Type: Support
Rank: ★★★

Fulgore
Fighter: Gray Alt
Spirit Battle Conditions:
1. Metal Enemy
2. The enemy turns invisible after a little while
3. Stamina battle
Stage: Shadow Moses Island
Music: Metal Man Stage
Spirit Type: Balanced
Rank: ★★★★

The problem with Ace Combat is that they'd probably have to license the likeness of the fighter jets, which is a hoop I don't see Nintendo wanting to go through. It's the same with any racing game spirits.

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

The problem with Ace Combat is that they'd probably have to license the likeness of the fighter jets, which is a hoop I don't see Nintendo wanting to go through. It's the same with any racing game spirits.

Hmm that true

guess we'll have to settle for the dog jpeg instead

 

[Dinoman96]

I wish to see a "Rare Reunion" spirit event.

• Joanna Dark
• Juno, Velua and Lupus (Jet Force Gemini)
• Conker
• J-Bomb (Blast Corps)
• Lanky Kong
• Chunky Kong
• Enguarde
• Klaptrap
• Kaptain K. Rool
• Swanky Kong
• Ting Kong
• Expresso
• Squitter
• Rattly
• Ellie
• Squawks
• Wrinkly Kong
• Zinger
• Kritter
• Rambi
• Krystal
• Tricky

Bolded spirits are new, obviously

Nintendo and Microsoft pls

 

[chocolatejr9]

> Narmaya and Lancelot as most favorite

See that? That's some good taste.

Honestly dude I'd suggest you try it out. It's not too hard to get in to, as all you have to do is make a Japanese iTunes account of download it from Qooapp on Android and then change the language to English. The 6th anniversary is going on right now so everyone's getting an absolute ****-ton of rolls, and the game is incredibly generous to f2p players otherwise.

The main story is a bit generic (as of what I've played, but apparently it picks up later), but the characters are fun and the gameplay is enjoyable. It's an all-around good time.

Euden...doesn't have moveset potential. In the slightest.

If you've played Dragalia Lost (which I have as I played it before picking up Granblue) you'd know that Euden is the epitome of a generic swordfighter. This makes sense since Dragalia Lost uses elements and weapon archetypes for base moveset and unique special attacks, but Euden's special attacks are hella generic. He uses flames, has a wave attack and a spin attack and can change into a dragon like Corrin or Charizard (who is pretty much a dragon). Even then, dragons are presented like a super, so they'd likely be relegated to his Final Smash.

If you use his Gala edition (which I doubt Sakurai would as it's non-canon) you open up the opportunity for elemental light AoE attacks, but that's about it. You could have him fight using the weapons of his friends, but then that makes him similar to Byleth using the Heroes Relics of the three house leaders.

In terms of moveset potential Granblue has Dragalia Lost sorely beat. It's also more popular so it has that going for it.

Actually, I'm pretty sure Gala Euden is the ONLY canon Gala unit, as it's currently the only one in the main story. While I will admit Euden would be one of the more generic characters, I trust Sakurai to give him SOMETHING to stand out from the rest. Just look at Hero and Byleth.

Although I know it's next to impossible to change someone's mind on SmashBoards, so what do you say we agree to disagree before this inevitably gets messy?

 

[CHAMPIONX9]

I Think Sora is a lock at this point. He has too many things going for him not to be in Smash.
1. Approached by nintendo
2. Ballot
3. Sales
4. Would surprise people/hype people
5. IP is S tier.

Dante, i think, isnt gonna happen.
1. Too many satanic reference to tone down for christian families. ( Same thing happened to yugioh)
2. Below nobodies/no chances like agumon and raymAn on the ballot in Europe.
3. Was assumed a lock on fp5. Got bylth. The cycle is basically gonna repeat itself. He's the hayasuba of this month.
4. Resident evil is still not in. Bigger game.

Crash isn't as likely as people think he is.
1.Owned by activision.
2. Eh on the ballot.
3. Japan dont care
4. Shell of former self.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

hmmm.

Bringing up Layton reminds me of a question I had for some people:
Why support 'peaceful' (characters who's games have no real combat/action mechanics) characters for smash, like Phoenix, Arle, Layton, or Tom Nook? They, in and of themselves, wouldn't necessarily bring anything new to the table -- given their moveset is pretty much entirely abstract anyway a la VIllager/Isabelle/R.O.B.. Is it just for the sake of the crossover/representation? If so, why not settle for and AT/Mii costume/ Spirits?

Not 'attacking'/'****ting on'/doubting/dismissing fans of these characters, I just want to know.

Personally I like characters that don't usually fight because they have very original moveset and stand out for the rest of the cast. When I think about the most original characters in Smash, what comes to my mind is Game & watch, Villager/Isabelle, Wii fit trainer and Duck hunt. These characters are very fun because they take a lot of creativity from the team to create moveset, which make them really stand out. Also their animations are just really fun to watch.
Also I could ask the opposite question:
Why do people want character that come from fighting and action game like Guilty gear or Dante? They wouldn't necessarily bring anything new to the table -- given their moveset is pretty much exactly like playing their original games a la Bayonetta/Ryu/Terry.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Franchises you want represented by Spirits because they have an absolutely 0% of getting in as anything playable:

[Secret of Mana]
[Pro Wrestling]
[Rygar]
[Gradius]
[Star Tropics]
[Crystalis]
[Blaster Master]
[Maniac Mansion]
[Wizards & Warriors]

Because reasons.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

2. Eh on the ballot.
3. Japan dont care

Um what? Crash is popular worldwide even in Japan. Didn't his first game sell 10 million copies?

Spyro on the other hand tho...

 

[osby]

I'm not arguing that they'd be redundant, or even that they shouldn't get in; I'm just asking whether people see some sort of secret combat potential in these characters, or if they just want the crossover to happen -- and then stating my case that I, personally, tend get less excited over these characters, as they tend to be more of a collection of references to that character (a la villager and wii fit) as opposed to that character pulled out of their game and put into smash (a la Mega Man, Ryu/Ken, or Bayonetta), which I think adds a lot more to Smash both as a game and as a crossover. One can see why the newcomers I root for most -- Dante, Sol, Nightmare, and Doomguy, are all from franchises with action, combos, platforming, and/or close quarters combat central to their gameplay and mechanics (if they aren't from fighting games to begin with). IMO, the less you have to change about the way a character operates to get them to fit into smash, the more eagerly I will anticipate and support that character (after they're added, though, it's anything goes. I love the way Byleth was implemented and they're from a turn based-game).

It's not a discussing of deserves to/should get in, it's just a matter of hype.

I'm not sure what's the argument in here. If you prefer characters from action-based games, more power to you.

People usually want to play as characters they like. They don't have to see a 1:1 moveset waiting to happen just to see them in Smash.

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

I Think Sora is a lock at this point. He has too many things going for him not to be in Smash.
1. Approached by nintendo
2. Ballot
3. Sales
4. Would surprise people/hype people
5. IP is S tier.

Dante, i think, isnt gonna happen.
1. Too many satanic reference to tone down for christian families. ( Same thing happened to yugioh)
2. Below nobodies/no chances like agumon and raymAn on the ballot in Europe.
3. Was assumed a lock on fp5. Got bylth. The cycle is basically gonna repeat itself. He's the hayasuba of this month.
4. Resident evil is still not in. Bigger game.

Crash isn't as likely as people think he is.
1.Owned by activision.
2. Eh on the ballot.
3. Japan dont care
4. Shell of former self.

Er don't we already have 2 demonic summoning characters already on the roster with

Don't see why demons would only now be a bad thing.

 

[Goombaic]

1.Owned by activision.
2. Eh on the ballot.
3. Japan dont care
4. Shell of former self.

1. And?
2. Maybe, maybe not, fan run ballots suggest otherwise.
3. Yes they do.
4. To you.

 

[osby]

I Think Sora is a lock at this point. He has too many things going for him not to be in Smash.
1. Approached by nintendo
2. Ballot
3. Sales
4. Would surprise people/hype people
5. IP is S tier.

None of these is unique to Sora, though.

Dante, i think, isnt gonna happen.
1. Too many satanic reference to tone down for christian families. ( Same thing happened to yugioh)
2. Below nobodies/no chances like agumon and raymAn on the ballot in Europe.
3. Was assumed a lock on fp5. Got bylth. The cycle is basically gonna repeat itself. He's the hayasuba of this month.
4. Resident evil is still not in. Bigger game.

1. So, like Bayonetta.
2. So, like Terry.
3. So, like Banjo.
4. So, like Joker.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

Aight.

Franchises you want represented by Spirits because they have an absolutely 0% of getting in as anything playable:

I've got:
Civilization
Ace Combat
Rivals of Aether
Armored Core

-Jet set radio
-Golden axe
-Super Monkey ball
-Skies of Arcadia
-Silent hill

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I Think Sora is a lock at this point. He has too many things going for him not to be in Smash.
1. Approached by nintendo
2. Ballot
3. Sales
4. Would surprise people/hype people
5. IP is S tier.

Dante, i think, isnt gonna happen.
1. Too many satanic reference to tone down for christian families. ( Same thing happened to yugioh)
2. Below nobodies/no chances like agumon and raymAn on the ballot in Europe.
3. Was assumed a lock on fp5. Got bylth. The cycle is basically gonna repeat itself. He's the hayasuba of this month.
4. Resident evil is still not in. Bigger game.

Crash isn't as likely as people think he is.
1.Owned by activision.
2. Eh on the ballot.
3. Japan dont care
4. Shell of former self.

Let's unpack the suitecase

SORA: Has Disney who are notoriously hard to work with alongside how Sora was handled in World Of Final Fantasy.


DANTE:
1:This isn't the 80's so you can get away with a lot more as seen with Castlevania's Christian imagery not needing to be censored like back then, the Blood Falcon palette actually has HELL HAWK written on the back and Bayonetta's perfectly fine with demons.

2: Literally what are you talking about

3: Banjo deconfirmed then as people thought he'd be in the base game for sure

4: Resident Evil are spirits and we got the dead franchise from Microsoft instead of Halo and Minecraft.

CRASH:
1: This is hard how exactly? People say Activision is stingy as seen with PSABR but the same applied to Square and Square let Smash have the character they denied PSABR

2: As opposed to what, Joker? Not to mention you lack a source and Crash made a huge comeback since then

3: This is a lie, Japan loves Crash

4: Crash is now a major IP with critical and commercial success, so another blatant lie

 

[osby]

Er don't we already have 2 demonic summoning characters already on the roster with

Don't see why demons would only now be a bad thing.

Well, Arsene isn't a demon, he's, uh... *checks notes* a manifestation of a Joker's personality as a "mask" for him to use to face the hardships he encounters.

Bayonetta outright summons demons and even the game calls them that, so yeah, it's a stupid argument against Dante.

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

Well, Arsene isn't a demon, he's, uh... *checks notes* a manifestation of a Joker's personality as a "mask" for him to use to face the hardships he encounters.

Bayonetta outright summons demons and even the game calls them that, so yeah, it's a stupid argument against Dante.

Someone explained it to me that personas are like trained inner demons, so i think that's were I got it mixed up.