Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Scoliosis Jones]

As I mentioned the other day with sword users, I think the main issue is that swords are absolutely the primary "fantasy weapon" that most gaming protagonists, especially within Nintendo, use. It's a simple fact. Even outside of Nintendo, most main protagonists use swords as their main weapon, and I would argue it's mainly because it's a weapon that fits plenty of different styles of gameplay.

Well, that or bare fists.

But just like there are many different ways to fight in hand to hand combat, there are many ways to handle different swords. Chances are decently high (granted, I don't see it happening whatsoever) that we DON'T get another Fire Emblem character. Three examples, whether they're in Smash or not, being Dnate, 2B, and even Geralt of ****ing Rivia all use swords, but none of them would play remotely like any of the Fire Emblem characters we have.

There hasn't been a main character (besides the House Leaders, but at the end of the day I don't think they were expected to be picked over main protag Byleth) in Fire Emblem that has used a weapon other than a sword. Off the top of my head I can think of Ephraim and Hector, but neither of those characters is even close to actually fitting the criteria of "a character from a recent release" that Corrin and Byleth.

Mind you, both are sword users but they play far different from every other sword fighter. Corrin effectively, functionally, uses a lance-like weapon for plenty of attacks. As I said the other day, you can't play Link like Marth. You can't play Ike like Shulk. You can't even play Young Link like Toon Link. It isn't the weapon that matters, it's the way the character functions within the confines of Super Smash Bros.

Like, they've literally made two versions of the same dude play entirely differently. I main Mario and love Uair ladders, but I don't play Doc because I can't do that with him. Yes, Smash represents plenty of games and characters. But it's a video game that allows for plenty of different functioning playstyles, and we can't just pretend that doesn't matter.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Everybody here be comparing the size of FE and Zelda representation while I'm just waiting for another Xenoblade character.

It's ok in 10 years we'll get Melia, Reyn, Riki, Fiora, Dunban, Elma and Turters so Smash fans will scream at Xenoblade fans for getting more characters than Metroid

 

[Deleted member]

This is where the issue comes from Smash always opting for the main protagonist and FE's main protagonists typically being sword users.
Like for other major characters you have a waterbending dancer that uses a lance and sings magic songs that provide buffs and an armoured axe user with magic and battalions.

But they miss out because they're not the main protagonist

Holy **** I just realized, Azura should have been the protagonist of Fates when I think about it. Holy **** what a missed opportunity.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Yeah coming from someone who is a huge Zelda fan, Zelda's Smash representation is fine. Zelda has stages, music, ATs, Spirits, and more across the whole series.

Like, not to be rude here, but some of y'all act like all you do in Smash is boot it up and stare at the CSS screen to see who is and isn't on it and form arguments based off of supposed injustices done to a vague concept of franchise ratios. To each their own of course, but I just don't like seeing it that way. Smash is a game that I play and enjoy all the aspects of, and looking at all the aspects? Zelda's got a lot of love. Do I wish Midna was playable? Yes, but I'll take her as an AT over not having her at all, personally.

See, I used to say this as a meme. But lately, it seems like it's the honest truth.

I love gaming as much as the next person, but there's a reason Smash Ultimate is basically my GOAT. I enjoy playing as the characters I love.

 

[MooMew64]

Yes. Roster good!
Ganon can be given a new moveset that usually suits him rather than just being Edgy Falcon, but otherwise *clap* good roster!

I mean, to each their own here, but I'd much rather have a fun assortment of characters, stages, music, and more than to hope for less content and go back to something like N64 or Melee. Wanting that just feels like spiteful regression

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Same here, she literally the only FE character I want at this point with how popular she's been in FEH and FE in general, it still shocks me that she got the AT treatment.

I think Sakurai just hates katanas. Samurai Goroh's an AT once again too, and I don't see Sephiroth happening at this rate...

Everybody here be comparing the size of FE and Zelda representation while I'm just waiting for another Xenoblade character.

never forget

though to be totally fair they didn't get the ol' "They'll get their chance another day" right from Sakurai's mouth like was implied with Rex so... fingers crossed?

 

[Opossum]

That's 7 vs 4 vs 3 vs 2. The Heroes' Relics are not one weapon.

You missed the point completely. My point was that Byleth has more moves that use the Heroes' Relics than moves that use the Sword of the Creator. Ergo, it's a plurality, not a majority.

 

[Deleted member]

Uuuhh no, Mario and Pokemon are tolerated because each one is different both as characters and fighters. Only half the FE character can claim the latter and none of them can claim the former.

I saw this and immediately remembered I had this saved for when people say Fire Emblem has too many reps but want another character from the 2 biggest repped series Mario and Pokemon.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Yeah coming from someone who is a huge Zelda fan, Zelda's Smash representation is fine. Zelda has stages, music, ATs, Spirits, and more across the whole series.

Like, not to be rude here, but some of y'all act like all you do in Smash is boot it up and stare at the CSS screen to see who is and isn't on it and form arguments based off of supposed injustices done to a vague concept of franchise ratios. To each their own of course, but I just don't like seeing it that way. Smash is a game that I play and enjoy all the aspects of, and looking at all the aspects? Zelda's got a lot of love. Do I wish Midna was playable? Yes, but I'll take her as an AT over not having her at all, personally.

To be fair, there are certain things in trailers that make it seem like fighters are what matters most. Take Isabelle's trailer for example: It implies that as an AT, she wasn't invited and wasn't truly "in Smash". In Japanese trailers, everyone's tagline is "Joins the battle!" regardless of their NPC roles, and "No, you'll get it today!" (Regarding Chrom's appearance in Robin's FS) was originally something more accurately translated as "Not really".

 

[MooMew64]

To be fair, there are certain things in trailers that make it seem like fighters are what matters most. Take Isabelle's trailer for example: It implies that as an AT, she wasn't invited and wasn't truly "in Smash". In Japanese trailers, everyone's tagline is "Joins the battle!" regardless of their NPC roles, and "No, you'll get it today!" (Regarding Chrom's appearance in Robin's FS) was originally something more accurately translated as "Not really".

That feels like something the fans put on the game more than anything. For the trailer's part, it's just having a bit of fun and making a reference.

 

[Deleted member]

I mean, to each their own here, but I'd much rather have a fun assortment of characters, stages, music, and more than to hope for less content and go back to something like N64 or Melee. Wanting that just feels like spiteful regression

This is why Everybody is Here was so amazing. They brought back characters they didn't even need to bring back, like Pichu and Young Link, along with most of the old stages from previous games. I repeat, most.

 

[osby]

I think Sakurai just hates katanas.

Are you joking? Asking seriously, I can never tell with this fandom and their "Sakurai hates Metroid and DKC because they didn't get newcomers in Smash 4!"

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I think Sakurai just hates katanas. Samurai Goroh's an AT once again too, and I don't see Sephiroth happening at this rate...


never forget

though to be totally fair they didn't get the ol' "They'll get their chance another day" right from Sakurai's mouth like was implied with Rex so... fingers crossed?

Smh the REAL reason is that Sakurai refused to include the Japanese equivelant of a holocaust denier in Smash, just because he finally changed that headband doesn't mean he'll acknowledge Nanking and ****

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Are you joking? Asking seriously, I can never tell with this fandom and their "Sakurai hates Metroid and DKC because they didn't get newcomers in Smash 4!"

being totally serious here, both Lyn and Goroh have been ATs since Brawl. Lyn also undoubtedly must have gotten a lot of votes in the Ballot, but it still wasn't enough

 

[pinshadow]

Just imagine if Donkey Kong representation was like Fire Emblem representation in Smash. Both have a weirdly small selection of stages, assist trophies, and weird music choices (atleast pre-Ultimate for both, arguable for after).

Now for the Roster we have
Donkey Kong
Classic Donkey Kong (Echo)
Funky Kong (Clone of Donkey)
Chunky Kong (Echo of Funky)
Diddy Kong
Lanky Kong
Cranky Kong
Tiny Kong

No Dixie Kong or K.Rool either, because Dixie is a character people really like but her game is old so she gets passed over for more recent characters, and no K.Rool because no villains either, only main playable characters. Now make it so we went from just Donkey Kong and Diddy Kong in one game to those two plus Classic DK, Funky, Lanky, and Cranky Kong in the next game. Now make it so Funky Kong, Cranky Kong, and Tiny Kong are only here because their game was about to come out at the time and Nintendo/Sakurai wanted to promote it in Smash.

This is what Fire Emblem representation feels like in Smash to me. I don't hate the franchise, I wouldn't even really mind it if you got like, one character each game, and you could probably use more stages, music, and assist trophies, but there's a point where it starts to feel really silly.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

being totally serious here, both Lyn and Goroh have been ATs since Brawl. Lyn also undoubtedly must have gotten a lot of votes in the Ballot, but it still wasn't enough

Sis, that implies we'd ever get an F Zero character beyond Falcon. Also the DQ8 protag wields a katana yet he's in

 

[Schnee117]

This is why Everybody is Here was so amazing. They brought back characters they didn't even need to bring back, like Pichu and Young Link, along with most of the old stages from previous games. I repeat, most.

Imagine taking a year to make and then not returning in the very next game that started dev right after DLC for your game finished

 

[Deleted member]

Imagine taking a year to make and then not returning in the very next game that started dev right after DLC for your game finished

Yo Orbital Gate Assault without Stage Hazards would be the sickest stage on there. It would literally just be a flipped Corneria, but holy god it looks so good.

 

[Guynamednelson]

View attachment 264221

Not good enough. Specify that you and your homies hate shill swordies from FE while having your homies' heads be those of the fully evolved Galar starters.

 

[Proceleon]

I saw this and immediately remembered I had this saved for when people say Fire Emblem has too many reps but want another character from the 2 biggest repped series Mario and Pokemon.

Excuse me? I have actively advocated cutting characters from both of those series, thank you very much.

 

[osby]

being totally serious here, both Lyn and Goroh have been ATs since Brawl. Lyn also undoubtedly must have gotten a lot of votes in the Ballot, but it still wasn't enough

You know... maybe you shouldn't base a person's likes and dislikes based on the CSS of one game they make.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

being totally serious here, both Lyn and Goroh have been ATs since Brawl. Lyn also undoubtedly must have gotten a lot of votes in the Ballot, but it still wasn't enough

That's just less competition for Pico when he becomes the next F-Zero Smash brother!

 

[N3ON]

You should try eight-player smash, handheld mode screen size, Great Cave Offensive. I can barely see myself, let alone, accurately hit my opponents.

Ngl, that doesn't even sound fun.

Where I about cap out is when I play on Palutena's Temple with friends, and we're all in the top-left temple-y part, and then there's always one ****ing Wario down in the bottom-right floaty island bit spamming the "where's my bike?" and crawling back and forth which really just ****s up the whole screen.

Then when we finish there's the "well we're never picking that goddam stage again", which last up until... the next time we play.

A solid group, I've got.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Not good enough. Specify that you and your homies hate shill swordies from FE while having your homies' heads be those of the fully evolved Galar starters.

Nah people call every new Pokemon since Lucario a shill pick too

 

[krokotopia101]

Since we're talking about clones, how about we talk about the DISGUSTINGLY pathetic representation that is the Zelda representation. Nintendo's other flagship franchise.

 

[Deleted member]

Ngl, that doesn't even sound fun.

Where I about cap out is when I play on Palutena's Temple with friends, and we're all in the top-left temple-y part, and then there's always one ****ing Wario down in the bottom-right floaty island bit spamming the "where's my bike?" and crawling back and forth which really just ****s up the whole screen.

Then when we finish there's the "well we're never picking that goddam stage again", which last up until... the next time we play.

A solid group, I've got.

Worst part is you go down the stage to zoom the camera in, and when you kill them, they spawn all the way at the top and zoom out the camera again lol.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Since we're talking about clones, how about we talk about the DISGUSTINGLY pathetic representation that is the Zelda representation. Nintendo's other flagship franchise.

B-but they have ATs! What do you mean you play with items off?

 

[Proceleon]

Since we're talking about clones, how about we talk about the DISGUSTINGLY pathetic representation that is the Zelda representation. Nintendo's other flagship franchise.

Yeah, Zelda deserves better. The only problem is that most characters don't sick around. Midna, Girahim, Zant. None of them stay put.

 

[MooMew64]

B-but they have ATs! What do you mean you play with items off?

I mean, willfully ignoring a part of the game doesn't make it not exist.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I mean, willfully ignoring a part of the game doesn't make it not exist.

This is a lie I removed Banjo from the game by sheer willpower

 

[krokotopia101]

B-but they have ATs! What do you mean you play with items off?

Mayhaps.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

hot take: I think Zelda's fine in terms of playable representation. Link (who was two other forms), Zelda (who has one other form) and Ganondorf are the only true constants throughout the series. Impa has a lot of incarnations but they're all (mostly) vastly different from each other and people like Ghirahim, Revali, Vaati etc. are for the most part one-offs.

 

[Proceleon]

I mean, willfully ignoring a part of the game doesn't make it not exist.

We all know playable is the top goal for any character.

hot take: I think Zelda's fine in terms of playable representation. Link (who was two other forms), Zelda (who has one other form) and Ganondorf are the only true constants throughout the series. Impa has a lot of incarnations but they're all (mostly) vastly different from each other and people like Ghirahim, Revali, Vaati etc. are for the most part one-offs.

Mostly agreed, however we don't need three Links. I get they're all different incarnations, but really? Three? At least give Young his masks or something.

 

[Proceleon]

[accidental double post]

 

[Deleted member]

This is a lie I removed Banjo from the game by sheer willpower

People of Earth, lend me your strength to put Banjo & Kazooie back in Smash!

Mostly agreed, however we don't need three Links. I get they're all different incarnations, but really? Three? At least give Young his masks or something.

Everybody is here. I don't know what else to tell you.

I mean, willfully ignoring a part of the game doesn't make it not exist.

Truth be told, most of my crew play with items off so I never get to see those sick assist trophies like Bomberman or Zero.

 

[osby]

We all know playable is the top goal for any character.

Tell that to Final Fantasy fans.

 

[N3ON]

Yeah, Zelda deserves better. The only problem is that most characters don't sick around. Midna, Girahim, Zant. None of them stay put.

I think we're at the point in Smash where that shouldn't really matter anymore. By virtue of being Zelda characters even those one-offs are fairly prominent, and there are a handful that are quite popular - and frankly I think that should be enough at the point the roster is getting close to triple digits.

Especially after three titles since the last original Zelda character, and two titles since the last Zelda newcomer in general.

I mean, willfully ignoring a part of the game doesn't make it not exist.

Doesn't really make Zelda's representation better though, a lot of series have multiple ATs. It's the standard.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

We all know playable is the top goal for any character.

Mostly agreed, however we don't need three Links. I get they're all different incarnations, but really? Three? At least give Young his masks or something.

I personally wanted YL's Final Smash to be him transforming into Fierce Deity Link, instead of that being an alt palette for Link (BOTW).

 

[Deleted member]

I think we're at the point in Smash where that shouldn't really matter anymore. By virtue of being Zelda characters even those one-offs are fairly prominent, and there are a handful that are quite popular - and frankly I think that should be enough at the point the roster is getting close to triple digits.

Especially after three titles since the last original Zelda character, and two titles since the last Zelda newcomer in general.

Given how nobody really complains about Sheik, I think the whole one-off argument isn't the issue. The biggest issue is they keep remaking the Links and Zeldas for each Smash game and think that's enough for modern Zelda reps.

 

[Proceleon]

Everybody is here. I don't know what else to tell you.

Yeeaah, I'm starting to think the whole 'Everyone is here' thing was a mistake.