Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Guynamednelson]

To them everyone loves that these characters are in

Explain Reggie acknowledging the Waluigi backlash multiple times then, or Nintendo giving the greenlight to make DLC of veterans with trophies in back in Smash 4.

 

[N3ON]

Then you're going to be waiting for a long time. What Sakurai & Nintendo want out weighs how the fans feel about it. To them everyone loves that these characters are in there so they're not going to back and make them playable when there's other characters to include, they want this to be the biggest crossover ever and they won't get there if they keep fluffing up the existing cast.

Have you not learn from Byleth that it doesn't matter what the fans think, they knew people were tired of Fire Emblem and they still thought it would be a good idea have the eighth FEA character as the last Fighter to be included in Smash. They'll keep making decisions that won't reflect how the fans feel about it. You got to just be lucky that your desire matches up with what Nintendo wants since Sakurai wants all control out of his hands.

>they want the biggest crossover possible
>they want more fire emblem

 

[TheCJBrine]

Then you're going to be waiting for a long time. What Sakurai & Nintendo want out weighs how the fans feel about it. To them everyone loves that these characters are in there so they're not going to back and make them playable when there's other characters to include, they want this to be the biggest crossover ever and they won't get there if they keep fluffing up the existing cast.

Have you not learn from Byleth that it doesn't matter what the fans think, they knew people were tired of Fire Emblem and they still thought it would be a good idea have the eighth FEA character as the last Fighter to be included in Smash. They'll keep making decisions that won't reflect how the fans feel about it. You got to just be lucky that your desire matches up with what Nintendo wants since Sakurai wants all control out of his hands.

Nintendo could’ve told Rare no, but I’m sure they had the fans in mind. There’s also the majority of the basegame characters being picked because of fans/popularity. Let’s not pretend they don’t care about the fans at all just because of Plant, new FE and ATs/spirits possibly not getting upgraded. It’s okay to be pessimistic, but you’re not even being realistic and it comes off as you trying to be a negative know-it-all who has to be right and you even get onto people who aren’t even arguing when it comes to characters who are already ATs.

 

[ArkSPiTFirE]

Then you're going to be waiting for a long time. What Sakurai & Nintendo want out weighs how the fans feel about it. To them everyone loves that these characters are in there so they're not going to back and make them playable when there's other characters to include, they want this to be the biggest crossover ever and they won't get there if they keep fluffing up the existing cast.

Have you not learn from Byleth that it doesn't matter what the fans think, they knew people were tired of Fire Emblem and they still thought it would be a good idea have the eighth FEA character as the last Fighter to be included in Smash. They'll keep making decisions that won't reflect how the fans feel about it. You got to just be lucky that your desire matches up with what Nintendo wants since Sakurai wants all control out of his hands.

I've already waited a long time, I'm used to it.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

>they want the biggest crossover possible
>they want more fire emblem

To be fair three houses was unrepresented in Ultimate so while it was not really a new universe, it was still a new game. Having a assist trophy playbale (let's say Waluigi with a Waluigi pinball stage) will neither bring a new universe or even a new game in ultimate.

 

[Cosmic77]

>they want the biggest crossover possible
>they want more fire emblem

I think it's safe to say Nintendo takes it one character at a time.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Having a assist trophy playbale (let's say Waluigi with a Waluigi pinball stage) will neither bring a new universe or even a new game in ultimate.

A certain man who is fat thinks Nintendo would get around this by bundling Waluigi with LM3 content, ignoring how Smash has introduced us to its new Poltergust.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

To be fair three houses was unrepresented in Ultimate so while it was not really a new universe, it was still a new game. Having a assist trophy playbale (let's say Waluigi with a Waluigi pinball stage) will neither bring a new universe or even a new game in ultimate.

That’s what you think. My uncle works at Nintendo and he said that Waluigi’s Taco Stand is totally being revealed in the Nintendo Direct next week.

 

[Deleted member]

Nintendo could’ve told Rare no, but I’m sure they had the fans in mind.

Or they could've just not responded at all like they did to ID Software supposedly. It's not like Nintendo has to respond to every dev that asks Nintendo about putting 1 of their characters in Smash.

 

[Knight Dude]

I mean, I kind of doubt we'll see Spirits get a character too, and I REALLY doubt ATs pulling double duty, but to say it's completely impossible is a bit short sighted. Crazy **** happens all the time. We never thought Ridley would pop up, or Banjo-Kazooie. Or Capcom getting two franchises ect.

Granted other games have pulled this before, like Injustice 1 and 2 or MVC3.

 

[ArkSPiTFirE]

To be fair three houses was unrepresented in Ultimate so while it was not really a new universe, it was still a new game. Having a assist trophy playbale (let's say Waluigi with a Waluigi pinball stage) will neither bring a new universe or even a new game in ultimate.

Yeah, Waluigi isn't the best example, even if he has a lot of fans.

I'm supporting Isaac, who comes from a game without a fighter in Smash, would come with a new stage set in Weyard, many great music tracks, easy costume alts (maybe even a Matthew skin since they're so similar), and he'd be the first fighter to introduce Earth based abilities (beyond making the ground shake).

EDIT: And he's first party!

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I mean, do we know the direction of FP2 yet as is? We know some stuff, like the character coming with a stage and music, and that Nintendo picked the characters like last time. It's easy to presume a spirit board too(though maybe it got confirmed). The "new worlds" thing may not even be a thing this time around.

I wouldn't assume it's going to follow the same rules as the first pass entirely. It absolutely could, but it's not a good hill to die on right now.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I actually think it’s more “logical” to view the 2nd season as a, “It COULD change, but is more likely to be consistent with previous Smash DLC”.

Not really trying to make some crazy long post. It’s just that based on past experience, it seems it should be seen as a surprise if we see a massive shift in approach as opposed to things staying consistent.

As always, nothing is impossible.

 

[TheCJBrine]

I think Waluigi could still come, there’s still unused Tennis/other sports games stuff as well as some other spinoff titles like DDR, and there’s unused enemies and other variations of Waluigi they could use as Spirits.

 

[Ura]

Has anyone considered the possibility of a Direct Mini tomorrow with a proper Direct early-April? Feels like it could happen. Get the smaller games releasing in the first half of 2020 shown off with a big surprise or two and then a big Direct early April on the way to E3.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Has anyone considered the possibility of a Direct Mini tomorrow with a proper Direct early-April? Feels like it could happen. Get the smaller games releasing in the first half of 2020 shown off with a big surprise or two and then a big Direct early April on the way to E3.

Nah I'm expecting March at this point especially given Animal Crossing next month.

 

[Garteam]

No, you guys have the fan rule/pattern debate wrong.

You see, if there's a reoccurring element that can be used for someone you like or a lack of precedent that can be used for someone you don't like, that's a pattern and it is the most objective thing in Smash speculation and Sakurai is crying because you're so good at getting in his head.

However, if there's a reoccurring element that can be used for someone you don't like or a lack of precedent that can be used for someone you like, that's a fan rule and whoever said it is the worst/dumbest person this side of the Mississippi.

 

[TwiceEXE]

The "new worlds" thing may not even be a thing this time around.

In the presentation where they announced more DLC, Sakurai did talk about how they want to continue to add as many new worlds as they can. Since there will probably never be another Smash like Ultimate.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

I'm expecting a direct on the 1st of ...

... And i'll leave it at that...

 

[EricTheGamerman]

People have a bad habit of thinking that precedent is not evidence and then trying to use the fact that precedent can be overturned to bludgeon ideas built around precedence as "FAN RULE, DOESN'T MATTER" instead of taking a more objective step back to evaluate things and acknowledge that in the absence of more concrete evidence, precedent is one of the main things we can use to develop speculation beyond personal opinion.

And that's without even mentioning that in lots of instances, the reason for precedents being broken have generally speaking been more extraordinary than people like to admit. I mean, the classic example is that King K. Rool and Banjo & Kazooie broke the "rule of irrelevant characters not being able to get in." Yes, technically "irrelevant characters got in," but mind, they got in specifically with a new modifier of having enough fan demand to overcome that status. Overall, the trend of "irrelevant" fighters getting in hasn't really changed that much. If you're talking are a much more forgotten about character without that fan demand, there's still an overall precedent set that such characters are unlikely for Smash unless Sakurai adopts you as a pet project.

Obviously you have to address each and every "rule" on its own terms, but I feel some people use it to play into their deifying of Sakurai as this "unpredictable mad genius" of sorts when Sakurai has mostly just been a pretty consistent developer that has evolved over the years and has been willing to make unlikely realities, reality, through sheer determination and work ethic. Precedent is still and will always be an incredibly relevant source of evidence when making speculation and predictions. You're free to come to different conclusions based on it, but I do think sometimes people are quick to slap "Fan rule" on anything that pushes against their preferred choices or preferred understanding of Smash when as usual it's all just so much more complex than that.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Disney out here saying "Use our IPs"
https://screenrant.com/disney-classic-properties-games-new-developers-innovation-dice/

 

[Faso115]

Disney out here saying "Use our IPs"
https://screenrant.com/disney-classic-properties-games-new-developers-innovation-dice/

I would read the fine print first, its Disney after all.

 

[snowgolem]

What do Joker, Hero, Banjo-Kazooie, Terry and Byleth have in common? The letter E in their name.

I think you know what I'm going with here. I henceforth propose the E Theory/Letter Theory. Every fighter in Pass 2 is going to share one letter in their names, whether it's E or something else in the alphabet.

Oh hey Dante has an E in the name. HMMMMMmmmmmmmmmMMMMMMMMMmmmmmm.

Doomguy, Sora, Waluigi, Crash Bandicoot... all gone just like that

 

[Knight Dude]

Doomguy, Sora, Waluigi, Crash Bandicoot... all gone just like that

Mega Man.EXE/Rock Man.EXE He's in gang.

And he's ready to throw hands. Hope we get Surge of Power and The Battle With Myself.

 

[Guynamednelson]

What do Joker, Hero, Banjo-Kazooie, Terry and Byleth have in common? The letter E in their name.

I think you know what I'm going with here. I henceforth propose the E Theory/Letter Theory. Every fighter in Pass 2 is going to share one letter in their names, whether it's E or something else in the alphabet.

Oh hey Dante has an E in the name. HMMMMMmmmmmmmmmMMMMMMMMMmmmmmm.

This is how Eevee can win.

 

[DarthEnderX]

or a pseudo-legendary like Lucario

Lucario is not a Pseudo-legendary.

That’s what you think. My uncle works at Nintendo and he said that Waluigi’s Taco Stand is totally being revealed in the Nintendo Direct next week.

I told you people, now is the time for Waluigi's Wrecking Crew!

 

[snowgolem]

Mega Man.EXE/Rock Man.EXE He's in gang.

View attachment 262112

And he's ready to throw hands. Hope we get Surge of Power and The Battle With Myself.

Oh, poor child. What you’re failing to realize is that every character in Fighter’s Pass 1 had only 1 E in their name! Megaman.EXE has 2!

 

[nessdeltarune00]

I mean of no disrespect but it really annoys me how people are treating coronavirus as the next black plague when it's nowhere to being as dangerous as it is.

Like it's bad but not that bad. Remember the swine flu an decade ago? No? Well still here.

Besides scientists said you should be more concern about the common flu.

Bruh.

You don’t quarantine a city of 50 million people and declare complete martial law over a “common flu”.

I highly recommend actually researching the subject and not just going off of what mainstream outlets are telling you. Because it is actually an incredibly serious situation over there.

 

[Knight Dude]

Oh, poor child. What you’re failing to realize is that every character in Fighter’s Pass 1 had only 1 E in their name! Megaman.EXE has 2!

And every character in Fighter's Pass 2 will have 2 E's in their name. The logic lines up pretty well.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

In the presentation where they announced more DLC, Sakurai did talk about how they want to continue to add as many new worlds as they can. Since there will probably never be another Smash like Ultimate.

Ah, then yeah, probably similar. Though again, that doesn't mean it'll be all new worlds. You can still do that for some of them while using characters who may be spirits, etc.

I doubt he'd hard limited by the spirits already in. I could see him using a principle of it, mind you. Besides, I'd say Nintendo is more limiting at this point. Especially since in the Famitsu column he spoke of a character that he couldn't do because of Nintendo. We might get an idea of who it is next week too, with his next column. If not an actual idea of what the pass could be like.

I do agree it makes more sense, that said, to see the next pass as more likely to be similar, though. It might be an all new ball game, but there's not some RNG involved or nature taking its course(i.e. a windy day). It's planned out. Besides that, it's probably more of a case Nintendo suggesting more than one character, regardless of spirits. It's doubtful they're reducing themselves over 1300 options due to that as is. Sakurai might, but that's not too likely either. That's a huge list to always keep in mind when it doesn't even matter at that point. You rename a spirit. Whoop-de-doo. Besides, I think it's most likely the original DLC(including Plant) were planned out based around the base game spirits, which is why overlap doesn't exist. It was all organized carefully. The only spirits that I feel are for sure out are DLC ones, which would be planned based around the second pass as is.

 

[N3ON]

To be fair three houses was unrepresented in Ultimate so while it was not really a new universe, it was still a new game. Having a assist trophy playbale (let's say Waluigi with a Waluigi pinball stage) will neither bring a new universe or even a new game in ultimate.

But you see, demonstrating the shifting line in the sand highlights the lack of consistence within the theory. Yes Three Houses wasn't in the game yet, but Fire Emblem was. If the goal is to magnify the crossover, there are better options than Byleth. But if Byleth will suffice, despite being a subpar choice in terms of crossover expansion, to me it suggests the goal is not solely to cast the net as far as possible, and reel in as many disparate properties as you can, but to treat each addition on a case-by-case basis.

To that end, an existing character seems fair game, theoretically. I didn't think we'd get any promotions within the first pass, as, ostensibly, the choices were all made during a period when the content in the base game could've been molded around what was to follow, but now the choices have been made post-release, and that may spur some reevaluation. Or, maybe not. However, unlike some, I don't presume to speak in absolutes about mere possibilities.

 

[Deleted member]

Nah I'm expecting March at this point especially given Animal Crossing next month.

And then April, and then May, and then E3...

At this rate it's going on forever.

 

[snowgolem]

And every character in Fighter's Pass 2 will have 2 E's in their name. The logic lines up pretty well.

That limits it pretty far. But I’ve determined the Fighter’s pass 2 from this!
1- Megaman.EXE
2- Green (Pokemon)
3- Peppy Hare
4- Plessie (Mario)
5- Master Chief
6- Enderman

 

[Seanapotamus]

And every character in Fighter's Pass 2 will have 2 E's in their name. The logic lines up pretty well.

Wanna know who has two E's in their name?

Steve

 

[SNEKeater]

Smash? Nah.
All that matters now is that, alongside the Wave 4 of DLC for Three Houses, now you can invite Rhea to drink tea.

The #FireEmblem: Three Houses Ver. 1.2.0 free update is also available now, which allows you to invite Lady Rhea to tea parties. She may be a bit intimidating, but don't let that stop you! pic.twitter.com/3BoprnJgFJ

— Nintendo of America (@NintendoAmerica) February 13, 2020

 

[DevaAshera]

Hmmm... Cuphead spirits but no Undertale ones.

Reminds me of how we didn’t get any Three Houses spirits when we got Pokemon and Astral Chain spirits. Frisk might be playable?

I don't think so. Its more likely that they just hadn't considered having Indie Game Spirits until Cuphead..or Microsoft having a hand in Cuphead made it easier to achieve..who knows.
Undertale Spirits are still possible later on.

 

[Knight Dude]

I do feel like there's some series that could benefit from a 2nd (or 3rd in the case of Street Fighter and Castlevania) character being added. At least in terms of characters, stages and music. Spirits might be harder for something like Sonic since most of the main characters got used, though it's not impossible to double dip on a few(say they have old-school versions of Tails and Eggman or something, or certain Eggman Mechs)

There's Kirby too, the main trio is in, but there's a lot more to pull from as far as modern games go. B.Dee seems like the most popular choice, but I'm sure there's a few others out there too.

You could make an Octoling completely different as far as what weapons they use, but they'd probably be an echo for the Inkling.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Bruh.

You don’t quarantine a city of 50 million people and declare complete martial law over a “common flu”.

I highly recommend actually researching the subject and not just going off of what mainstream outlets are telling you. Because it is actually an incredibly serious situation over there.

Regardless it still isn't as bad as its being made out to be. Not the next black plague...

But again not the thread for this.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I think the fact that Nintendo had a “heavier than expected” hand in the DLC selection has shaken a few things up, at least for me.

I get the feeling Joker and Terry were picks that were made to give Sakurai some “passion” picks, but also to re-solidify some of those business relationships. After all, Nintendo can likely credit Ryu and Cloud in Wii U for the improved relationships with each company since then.

I just think it’s good to remember that DLC works not only to satisfy fan wants, but also to support business decisions and other such “lame” stuff.

That said, I’ll be feeling pretty good about Dante if he survives potential Spirit Boards in the next month.

 

[The Rhythm Theif]

Remember when Sonic had a game on the Neo Geo Pocket Color?