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Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

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Cutie Gwen

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If the next Challenger Pack's newcomer doesn't have a cinematic Final Smash AGAIN, then I don't care who they are. If they do again then I'm convinced somewhere along the line the team ran out of ideas for Final Smashes.

Only counts if they're as blatantly shoehorned as Terry's, though. Byleth's is also shoehorned in but at least kinda makes sense. I would say that Joker and Banjo were definitely cases where it at least thematically fits as a cinematic instead of not cutting away from gameplay, though Joker has the only one that needed to be exactly that. Hero I'm torn on. So like, if Arle and Crash had a cinematic I'd be mad, but with somebody like Sol Badguy, I'd say that it just has to be that.

I just want a projectile. Or even a combo rush. ****, bring back transformations. I don't care. Just please not another goddamn cutscene.
Cinematic supers have been a staple for fighting games for over a decade, how was Terry's shoehorned? Or anyone's, for that matter? The point of cinematic supers is to make it feel satisfying to land them and I'd much rather have that than something like Mario Finale or Super Sonic
 

TMNTSSB4

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I think at least one base game Spirit may be promoted soon. Event Spirits after release are screwed unfortunately imo
a base spirit promotion (Shantae for example) would be hype...and now I cry again over the deaths of the likes of Resident Evil and Astral Chain reps...and River City Ransom
Holy hell no direct tweet today. When is this general direct coming!!??
February. Byleth reveal and random(ish) Switch reveals and/or releases this month were all we were gonna a get
 

Rie Sonomura

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If the next Challenger Pack's newcomer doesn't have a cinematic Final Smash AGAIN, then I don't care who they are. If they do again then I'm convinced somewhere along the line the team ran out of ideas for Final Smashes.

Only counts if they're as blatantly shoehorned as Terry's, though. Byleth's is also shoehorned in but at least kinda makes sense. I would say that Joker and Banjo were definitely cases where it at least thematically fits as a cinematic instead of not cutting away from gameplay, though Joker has the only one that needed to be exactly that. Hero I'm torn on. So like, if Arle and Crash had a cinematic I'd be mad, but with somebody like Sol Badguy, I'd say that it just has to be that.

I just want a projectile. Or even a combo rush. ****, bring back transformations. I don't care. Just please not another goddamn cutscene.
But watching the video and audio desync during a laggy WiFi match is hilarious! :secretkpop:

but if Octolings get in for example it better be a heckin interactive FS like Inkling’s Killer Wail. Baller?
 

StarBot

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If the next Challenger Pack's newcomer doesn't have a cinematic Final Smash AGAIN, then I don't care who they are. If they do again then I'm convinced somewhere along the line the team ran out of ideas for Final Smashes.

Only counts if they're as blatantly shoehorned as Terry's, though. Byleth's is also shoehorned in but at least kinda makes sense. I would say that Joker and Banjo were definitely cases where it at least thematically fits as a cinematic instead of not cutting away from gameplay, though Joker has the only one that needed to be exactly that. Hero I'm torn on. So like, if Arle and Crash had a cinematic I'd be mad, but with somebody like Sol Badguy, I'd say that it just has to be that.

I just want a projectile. Or even a combo rush. ****, bring back transformations. I don't care. Just please not another goddamn cutscene.
The flat out said they made wanted to make Final Smashes faster in ****
 

Krankees

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Broke: Waiting for Byleth to come out.

Woke: Waiting for Version 7.0.0 to come out to hopefully see your character get insanely buffed.
 

Guybrush20X6

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Broke: Waiting for Byleth to come out.

Woke: Waiting for Version 7.0.0 to come out to hopefully see your character get insanely buffed.
I wonder if Little Mac will get a higher double jump. Not like he can use it offensively anyway.
 

Rie Sonomura

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Broke: Waiting for Byleth to come out.

Woke: Waiting for Version 7.0.0 to come out to hopefully see your character get insanely buffed.
Bespoke: Waiting for 7.0.0 for any miscellaneous new features

Masterstroke: Waiting for that sweet 7.0.0 datamine
 

CosmicQuark

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Here's my 'realistic' wishlist for FP2. Things that I can see actually happening, with a little bit of wishful thinking. Nothing too extreme, but overall something I would be really pleased if it happened. Included Mii Fighters, music, etc.

View attachment 259979
That's a really cool format. I think Fighter Passes should come with at least one echo, likely first party to avoid licensing costs, since they add value without as much development--as it is, though, I don't expect echoes. My hopes for echoes would be Shadow and Dixie, even if the first is an assist and the latter would not be able to accurately portray her movesets. They just feel missing.

Let's say that the Fighter's Pass also came with one assist trophy per pack. Who would you have picked as the five assist trophies? The only rules is that the character must not be someone already physically present during any stage or animation (spirits are fine though), and the assist trophy must originate from the same series as the pack's character.
I only know about Persona and BK, and for Persona Jack Frost seems like the best option. Such an iconic character, even for someone like me who is not a big Persona guy. Banjo-Kazooie is more difficult. The best assist trophy choice would be Mumbo Jumbo--he'd transform an opponent into a useless tansformation, allowing people to beat up on them, only able to run away and jump. But since Mumbo Jumbo's already a stage character--technically Humba Wumba would work better. She's the one that does the Washing Machine transformation, and so the opponent would be able to have ineffective undewear projectiles as well. Though, given the Game & Watch situation, there would certainly be a segment offended by her inclusion, I would think.
 

Opossum

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Let's say that the Fighter's Pass also came with one assist trophy per pack. Who would you have picked as the five assist trophies? The only rules is that the character must not be someone already physically present during any stage or animation (spirits are fine though), and the assist trophy must originate from the same series as the pack's character.
Persona - Jack Frost

He'd appear on the stage with a hee-ho before blasting the surrounding area with Mabufu, coating it in ice. Contact with the spell may freeze opponents.

Dragon Quest - Erik

Attacks by wielding knives. If he hits an opponent with his opening attack, Cobra Strike, they begin to take damage over time. But if Erik hits them while they're poisoned, his attack instead becomes Victimiser, causing the damage caused by his slash to increase sixfold.

Banjo-Kazooie - Clanker

Clanker appears as a massive behemoth. Like Chain Chomp, he's chained to the stage, though, but he still patrols the air as he swims around. If he is facing an opponent, he'll bite at them to try to eat them. If he succeeds, he does rapid damage as he grinds them up before spitting them back out of his blowhole.

Fatal Fury - Michael Max

A sort of upgraded replacement of the Brawl Little Mac assist. Michael Max will run across the stage, even entering the background via the Z axis to dodge blows, and unleash flurries of punches. Before he disappears, he'll also use the Tornado Upper, which can trap opponents in a rapidly damaging windstorm.

Fire Emblem: Three Houses - Hubert

Hubert von Vestra appears from the Assist Trophy and snaps his fingers. Suddenly, the entire corp of Vestra Sorcery Engineers appears behind him using Warp magic. Hubert shouts "We shall burn together!" and takes a bow. The mage corp then casts Resonant Lightning to call down massive lightning strikes all over the stage. Hubert gives one of his trademark laughs before snapping his fingers and warping away with his battalion.



tl;dr I'm very sad that Hubert is the only retainer absent from the Garreg Mach Monastery stage, dammit.
 
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Firox

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Lol, considering I'm a Joker main, if I get anything, it'll be a nerf
Gotta say, I've got such mixed feelings about Joker. I've really tried to be good with him, and I AM pretty decent, but he just doesn't seem like the invincible powerhouse that people make him out to be. His Nair and Dair have some uncomfortable startup and he seems to struggle against any characters with reasonable speed that can out-reach his little dagger. At the same time though, I've been wrecked so many times by the absolutely OP combination of his frame data and Arsene's obscene power boost. Also, tournament results definitely lean more towards him being broken, though literally ANYONE Mkleo plays can look broken. Remember Ike? (Though Marss' ZSS actually beat MKLeo's Joker at G7) Bottomline, I could totally see him getting nerfed but I'm still on the fence as to whether he genuinely deserves it.
 

Sari

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Broke: Waiting for Byleth to come out.

Woke: Waiting for Version 7.0.0 to come out to hopefully see your character get insanely buffed.
BRING ON THE ISABELLE BUFFS!



...please?
 

NurpNurp

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Gotta say, I've got such mixed feelings about Joker. I've really tried to be good with him, and I AM pretty decent, but he just doesn't seem like the invincible powerhouse that people make him out to be. His Nair and Dair have some uncomfortable startup and he seems to struggle against any characters with reasonable speed that can out-reach his little dagger. At the same time though, I've been wrecked so many times by the absolutely OP combination of his frame data and Arsene's obscene power boost. Also, tournament results definitely lean more towards him being broken, though literally ANYONE Mkleo plays can look broken. Remember Ike? (Though Marss' ZSS actually beat MKLeo's Joker at G7) Bottomline, I could totally see him getting nerfed but I'm still on the fence as to whether he genuinely deserves it.
I can at least see Tetrakarn/Makarakarn getting nerfed because aside from being pretty big moves, they're also reasonable safe to throw out iirc
 

MBRedboy31

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If the next Challenger Pack's newcomer doesn't have a cinematic Final Smash AGAIN, then I don't care who they are. If they do again then I'm convinced somewhere along the line the team ran out of ideas for Final Smashes.

Only counts if they're as blatantly shoehorned as Terry's, though. Byleth's is also shoehorned in but at least kinda makes sense. I would say that Joker and Banjo were definitely cases where it at least thematically fits as a cinematic instead of not cutting away from gameplay, though Joker has the only one that needed to be exactly that. Hero I'm torn on. So like, if Arle and Crash had a cinematic I'd be mad, but with somebody like Sol Badguy, I'd say that it just has to be that.

I just want a projectile. Or even a combo rush. ****, bring back transformations. I don't care. Just please not another goddamn cutscene.
They theoretically could’ve made Banjo’s act like Snake’s, except that the missiles (Jinjos in Banjo’s case) spawn from where Banjo is standing instead of from the edge of the screen. The smaller Jinjos would probably be weaker hits that hold the opponent in place in the air so that the finishing hit from the Jinjonator can hit them, much like with the smaller lasers from R.O.B.’s Final Smash.

Still, the cinematics do look cool and also keep the pace of the match going.
 

Koopaul

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A cinematic Final Smash balances things a bit too. Certain Final Smashes are either unavoidable or so easy to avoid their a joke.
 

Evil Trapezium

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Broke: Waiting for Byleth to come out.

Woke: Waiting for Version 7.0.0 to come out to hopefully see your character get insanely buffed.
Banjo & Kazooie needs some buffs. I want to act out of Down air much quicker so I'm not a few frames short of recovering.

Also I'd love a patch to remove Isabelle from the game.
 
D

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Broke: Waiting for Byleth to come out.

Woke: Waiting for Version 7.0.0 to come out to hopefully see your character get insanely buffed.
Bring on any changes last few patches ended up changing nothing I want to see some big meta changing stuff to spice it up a bit.
 

Megadoomer

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Kunio's spirit event ends tonight or tomorrow, right? Wonder who will be the next vict... err spirit event. :p
Part of me hopes it's a series that's already represented by a Mii costume, like Undertale, Virtua Fighter, Goemon, or Cuphead. I don't know how the fanbases in general would feel, but I can't see (for example) Mugman being a playable character with Cuphead being a Mii costume, and I felt like it was a missed opportunity to not include trophies for, say, Heihachi or Akira with the Smash 4 Mii costumes. (the only costume that got that bonus was Inkling)

Admittedly, it would probably only be four new spirits, even though these series would have potential for so much more (though maybe they could put some in groups like what we got with the Pokemon Sword/Shield spirits), but I think people would be more accepting of more content for a series that's already in Smash in some form, as opposed to a fan favourite franchise (or a franchise with a small but passionate fanbase) that people have hope for suddenly getting relegated to spirits. (assuming that post-launch spirits have any bearing on whether or not a character will make it in - I don't know for sure)
 
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Curious Villager

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Kunio's spirit event ends tonight or tomorrow, right? Wonder who will be the next vict... err spirit event. :p
They'll probably do a tournament event with Byleth if other character release events are anything to go by.
So we'll probably be in the clear as far as spirit disconfirmations go this week.

Inb4 its a Super Fire Emblem bros themed tournament event.
 
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CosmicQuark

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A cinematic Final Smash balances things a bit too. Certain Final Smashes are either unavoidable or so easy to avoid their a joke.
I prefer cinematic final smashes for that reason, though if there are going to be a lot of non-cinematic final smashes, I would like to see DLC characters with more variety--only incorporate them if they're balanced (not to easy or hard to avoid). And only if it fits the character--Super Sonic and Pac-Man's final Smash are important given how iconic those versions of the characters are. I think Crash shouldn't have a cinematic final Smash, for instance--he should be wearing an invincible Aku Aku mask for a limited time, and Crash could run into opponents. I think transformational final smashes are fine, so long as they're short enough. And while Sakurai did say he wanted shorter final smashes, that didn't stop Peach from having her final smash in Ultimate stay as is.
 

TMNTSSB4

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Broke: Waiting for Byleth to come out.

Woke: Waiting for Version 7.0.0 to come out to hopefully see your character get insanely buffed.
Pit buffs...which I know won’t be happening...but I still dream
Kunio's spirit event ends tonight or tomorrow, right? Wonder who will be the next vict... err spirit event. :p
nah calling them victims was right
 

Pinguino21v

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This pisses me off to no end.

Geno and Isaac were both requested since Brawl. Go back and check the threads on this very website. The revisionism of statements saying otherwise is galling.

Plus:
  • Isaac is first party.
  • Isaac is actually known and requested in Europe as his game was released there. Geno is not.
  • Golden Sun likely has a game on the way sometime in the next two years and creators who want to do more with the franchise. Geno does not.
Not only is Isaac or some other Adept from Golden Sun as much if not more of a fan-favorite, he's also infinitely more likely to actually be one of the next six fighters.
Amen brother.
 

Firox

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I think the sad truth of the matter is that any meaningful buffs or nerfs likely won't happen. Sakurai seems pretty content with the current balance and each patch seems to be less and less impactful. Even if Joker or the other top tiers get nerfed, it'll probably be some fairly useless adjustments. I can see it now:

Kirby - Slightly increase the range of Inhale
Joker - increased endlag on f tilt by 1 frame
ZSS - Stun from neutral B reduced by 2 frames
Mewtwo - Weight decreased to 60 (cuz why the feck not, am I right?)
Wario - Increased the hitbox of Waft

ENJOY
 

Pinguino21v

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Wait, did I miss something here?
Copyright renewal I guess?
That's it. Or more precisely a new one. There were a renewal of "Golden Sun Dark Dawn" a few days ago, 9 years after its first copyright, so basically usual stuff. Nothing to see here.
But what matters is that there were a new japanese copyright of "Golden Sun" a few months ago. If I remember correctly, it uses the english name of "Golden Sun" whereas the original one used its japanese name only. Plus it got accepted one month ago.

So nothing official, and I'm honestly not sure it really matters, but you have to admit it's weird to do a new copyright if you don't intend to use it.
 
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CosmicQuark

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I think the sad truth of the matter is that any meaningful buffs or nerfs likely won't happen. Sakurai seems pretty content with the current balance and each patch seems to be less and less impactful. Even if Joker or the other top tiers get nerfed, it'll probably be some fairly useless adjustments. I can see it now:

Kirby - Slightly increase the range of Inhale
Joker - increased endlag on f tilt by 1 frame
ZSS - Stun from neutral B reduced by 2 frames
Mewtwo - Weight decreased to 60 (cuz why the feck not, am I right?)
Wario - Increased the hitbox of Waft

ENJOY
From what I've heard watching some competitive Smash players, Ultimate is one of the most balanced Smash games, so Sakurai should feel content. I have my personal gripes--it gets annoying hearing competitive players saying ":ultbanjokazooie: is trash, they're like high tier." But I recognize that is not the audience the team is balancing for.
 

Firox

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From what I've heard watching some competitive Smash players, Ultimate is one of the most balanced Smash games, so Sakurai should feel content. I have my personal gripes--it gets annoying hearing competitive players saying ":ultbanjokazooie: is trash, they're like high tier." But I recognize that is not the audience the team is balancing for.
Granted, Ultimate is by far the best balanced Smash yet, however there are some glaringly terrible characters that could use some love. At the same time though, I can understand why Sakurai wouldn't want to disturb the delicate balance too much.
 
D

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Granted, Ultimate is by far the best balanced Smash yet, however there are some glaringly terrible characters that could use some love. At the same time though, I can understand why Sakurai wouldn't want to disturb the delicate balance too much.
We're getting over the 80 characters mark with only a handful that are Echoes compared to other games like DBZ or Naruto where some characters are wildly unbalanced and feature 7 or 8 of the same character. This game is the epitome of perfect balance by comparison.

Obviously its not absolutely perfect, but when compared to other fighting game series out there its really well-balanced. The larger the roster, the harder it becomes to balance things and differentiate the fighters from one another. Echo fighters are essentially glorified re-skins, but at least there's small things to differentiate them from their counterparts compared to other games where clones are just straight clones with little difference.

Let's throw new ideas! The next pass will contains:

I know we were saying that the DLC from the last pass were pretty niche, but at least they were heard of. SSX is very niche. And Age of Empires will never get in as a PC game rep when you've got the most well-known PC game series in Warcraft that you could get someone from. And other than Borderlands, the rest of those are virtually unheard of.
 
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True Blue Warrior

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There's a massive, enormous caveat that people are either forgetting or outright ignoring when it comes to Banjo's inclusion: he's not just a third-party character owned by a rival company like Master Chief or Kratos. Rare was once a second-party, in-house studio for Nintendo. They did so much for Nintendo for so long that the two were practically synonymous back in the day. Donkey Kong's redesign that has become the norm for the character to this day? Rare's design.

Banjo and Kazooie were, for a time, Nintendo icons. This is why so many people wanted to see them in Smash, as a sort of homecoming.

So every time I see people justifying mascots for rival companies and using BK as their argument's backbone, it baffles me. They have a long history with Nintendo that was frustratingly cut short, Master Chief doesn't.
There is also the important fact that Banjo was owned by Nintendo (the bottom of the back cover of Diddy Kong Racing pretty much proves it). This simple but important fact alone puts him in a unique situation incomparable to pretty much any other third-party character ever.

And on that note, can we take a moment to remind ourselves how much of an underdog inclusion the likes of Dark Samus and the Rare duo were as playable characters? I mean, it's still amazing we got the roster we did as it is.
 

SNEKeater

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Dante should be a Mii if Nero gets in and vice versa
I like Nero a lot but Nero getting in before Dante won't happen, that would be like having Akuma before Ryu

I still wish we could get some SF3 era music in Smash. It's my favorite era of SF music.

Truly a shame. SF3 era music is my favourite in the series.

Sol could have his Install as a transformation FS but that's entirely unlikely. It would most likely be his Instant Kill which is... well... another cutscene
tbf the point of instant kills in Guilty Gear is... exactly that. They're instant kills with a cool cutscene. Sol's one would fit so well as a final smash if you ask me. And yeah, I think that if somehow he's DLC Sakurai would make his final smash a literal kill, faithful to GG Xrd. I could see Sakurai literally copy pasting this like he did with Joker.

 
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Guynamednelson

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Fingers crossed for you guys for the next game, and I mean that sincerely
Yeah, in nine years. When most of us will have to be busy with something non-game-related.
Fatal Fury - Michael Max

A sort of upgraded replacement of the Brawl Little Mac assist. Michael Max will run across the stage, even entering the background via the Z axis to dodge blows, and unleash flurries of punches. Before he disappears, he'll also use the Tornado Upper, which can trap opponents in a rapidly damaging windstorm.
This would actually be a good explanation for why his theme is a part of the challenger pack.
 

N3ON

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"Never-evers" is such a weird, bad term for characters people support fervently because they believe they're an entirely possible addition. They're just the ones that have had a longer road than most. And even then, there's certainly more than four characters to which that applies.

You think the Geno thread considers Geno a "never-ever"? Did the K. Rool consider K. Rool a "never-ever"? If they were really considered a character that would never ever happen, they wouldn't have top tier popularity, because expectation informs desire around here.

If you want to see a true "never-ever", look at Banjo's demand from the Rare buyout to Spencer's statement in 2015. People didn't not want him, they just considered him an actual "never gonna happen", and thus the demand died down until he was seen as possible again.

Calling those characters "never-evers" is basically completely antithetical to the forces that actually got them included.
 

True Blue Warrior

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If you want to see a true "never-ever", look at Banjo's demand from the Rare buyout to Spencer's statement in 2015. People didn't not want him, they just considered him an actual "never gonna happen", and thus the demand died down until he was seen as possible again.
I remember how much of a pipe-dream character BK were considered.
 

Pinguino21v

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I know we were saying that the DLC from the last pass were pretty niche, but at least they were heard of. SSX is very niche. And Age of Empires will never get in as a PC game rep when you've got the most well-known PC game series in Warcraft that you could get someone from. And other than Borderlands, the rest of those are virtually unheard of.
Oh, I know that these games won't be in the pass. I only wrote that to start new discussions instead of always talking of the same things.

Let me just do a correction, SMITE may be a niche game, it is the only one of the genre and that makes it work. It has more than 30 millions unique accounts since its launch and had more than 840 000 unique active players last year. Far from unheard of.
 
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