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Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

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Schnee117

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Limiting what a series can get because of arbitrary parameters never works, especially when there are series that have over a thousand possible choices and others that don't even come close to triple digits without resorting to generic enemies.
 

I.D.

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Its a year old article, so for sure has made plenty more since then.
https://www.pocketgamer.biz/asia/ne...es-has-grossed-over-500-million-in-two-years/
We might get an more updated number by the end of the month with an investors meeting.
Yes I'm aware that Heroes has made over 500 million in revenue. I'm asking this guy if he knows for sure that Breath of the Wild hasn't made more with sales of physical copies, digital and DLC (not even taking into account the Switch sales it has no doubt moved on its own).
 

Scoliosis Jones

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Mario, Luigi, Dr. Mario, and Wario should all be on the same roster icon because they all have huge noses, wear overalls, have bright colored hats, use their hands and feet to fight, and what have you. If they look similar and use similar weapons to fight, I don't see why it should matter. They're all the same, you know?

Peach, Daisy, Rosalina, and Zelda should all be costumes of one another because they're all princesses. Sure, Rosalina has a Luma, but she's just so similar to Peach. That long dress...those blonde-ish locks of beautiful hair...they just look...so...SIMILAR.

Ridley should be put into the rotation of Pokemon Trainer as a swap out for Charizard, because they're both dragons. I mean, sure, you say Ridley is in space and Charizard can have various personalities. But they're both DRAGONS. They could easily fit over one another.

Sheik should just be a Greninja costume because they're clearly so similar to each other. Uh, hello??? THEY'RE BOTH NINJAS! Why bother giving them that extra slot if they are basically the same thing, know what I'm saying?

King K. Rool should be a Bowser costume. They're both reptilian ogrelords who have nothing better to do than annoy their rivals. There isn't really THAT MUCH that separates them.

Ness, Lucas, and Villager should all just be costumes for each other because they're basically small children in shape and size. There are only a few ways small children can fight, and they can all do it!

Fox, Falco, and Wolf should just be costumes because they all shoot guns and are furries. Get these weird humanoid animals out of here.

Ok, I'm done being a turd, lol. (Ironically added Star Fox after initially posting and saying "K I'm done" lmao)
 
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Animegamingnerd

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To be honest, I bet Nintendo and Sakurai aren't even concerned about the controversy. Regardless of the objective quality of Sword and Shield, it's an undeniable fact that they were successful and became the highest-selling games on the Switch. Considering that we just got Byleth to promote FE Three Houses DLC, I doubt the controversy will stop a Gen 8 rep from being added.
Nintendo doesn't even give a **** about the amount of dislikes their Nintendo Switch Online videos have. Which was a much bigger deal then this, since that has been a problem plaguing this ****ing company since the Wii.
 
D

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Are people still arguing about this crap?
It's been 2 days already.
T W O D A Y S A L R E A D Y
Give it a couple years and there'll still be arguments about FE.

It's like Mr. Bone's Wild Ride, the arguments never end.
 

Cosmic77

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Except Sakurai only promotes the latest generation at release. For base roster he sets aside a spot for Pokémon. DLC is a different ball game, and with the flaming ball of controversy that is Sword and Shield, I wouldn't be surprised if Nintendo didn't even include it on their lists. If it did, I wouldn't be surprised if Sakurai went for other, more interesting or proven characters.
And we know this is a hard rule how? SuMo wasn't even in the running for Smash 4's DLC because it still had well over a year and half left before its release when the last character for Smash 4 was chosen. As for Ultimate, well, we're not even done with DLC yet, so I don't know how anything from this game is conclusive.
 
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Animegamingnerd

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Yes I'm aware that Heroes has made over 500 million in revenue. I'm asking this guy if he knows for sure that Breath of the Wild hasn't made more with sales of physical copies, digital and DLC (not even taking into account the Switch sales it has no doubt moved on its own).
We don't know that one unless you do the math and try to estimate how much is revenue came from 15 million copies of a 60 dollar game.
 

NintenZ

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I don't understand why Granblue should be in Smash.

Dragalia Lost is at least a part of Nintendo's history whereas Granblue is just a mobile game that has almost no connection with Nintendo whatsoever outside of a spin-off fighting game.

At least games like Final Fantasy 7 and Persona 5 have connections in the form of their roots, Granblue doesn't have any sort of connection which is why I'd prefer Dragalia 10x more.
 

Cutie Gwen

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We don't know that one unless you do the math and try to estimate how much is revenue came from 15 million copies of a 60 dollar game.
Not to mention that by doing that you'll need an estimate of how many physical copies were sold, that's especially important as retailers get a cut for it which is why a lot of digital game purchases are scummy
(Seriously how is Smash more expensive digitally despite not losing a cut for retailers or packaging costs)
 

GoodGrief741

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We don't know that one unless you do the math and try to estimate how much is revenue came from 15 million copies of a 60 dollar game.
At that pricepoint (and to be fair Nintendo games rarely drop much in price) it's $900 million. While probably not that amount, DLC sales and whatnot, yeah, it probably still made more money.
 

Wunderwaft

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Its a year old article, so for sure has made plenty more since then.
https://www.pocketgamer.biz/asia/ne...es-has-grossed-over-500-million-in-two-years/
We might get an more updated number by the end of the month with an investors meeting.
That.... didn't exactly make more money than Breath of the Wild. Breath of the Wild sold over 15 million copies. Since Nintendo never changes the default price of their games let's multiply that with 60 (which is the price of BotW ever since it released) and we have 900 million dollars made from sales alone, even if we account holiday sales into the mix BotW would still make more than Heroes. Let's say we multiply the 15 million with 40, we will get 600 million which is still more than what Fire Emblem Heroes made. Of course I haven't even talked about the number of Switch units that were sold thanks to BotW being a launch title for it.
 

CodakTheWarrior

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If people start legit claiming that Fire Emblem is more prominent of a series than Zelda now just because of smash or whatever I will be very confused, the main reason people have this huge hissyfit over reps is because Fe has factually sold less than many other series that have been around for longer, thus meaning that more people are exposed to them. It’s not an issue of whether or not they ‘fit’, as I think all 8 Fe characters have a deserved place in there own way, it’s just that said characters form Fe are repeatedly prioritized over say, a character from BotW, which sold more and has just as much potential for unique characters as three houses while also resulting in MUCH less backlash.

All this does show that there is a blatant bias towards Fire Emblem, it’s just unarguable. Though to be fair I’m not upset with Byleth just supporting my stance
 

Animegamingnerd

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If we are gonna use sales numbers as an argument, then by this logic shouldn't from the following franchises be cut?

Every Star Fox, Mother/Earthbound, Kid Icarus, Metroid, Bayonetta, and F-Zero character. Since those franchises rarely if ever light up the sales and only have a niche fanbase at best.
 
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Cosmic77

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If people start legit claiming that Fire Emblem is more prominent of a series than Zelda now just because of smash or whatever I will be very confused, the main reason people have this huge hissyfit over reps is because Fe has factually sold less than many other series that have been around for longer, thus meaning that more people are exposed to them. It’s not an issue of whether or not they ‘fit’, as I think all 8 Fe characters have a deserved place in there own way, it’s just that said characters form Fe are repeatedly prioritized over say, a character from BotW, which sold more and has just as much potential for unique characters as three houses while also resulting in MUCH less backlash.

All this does show that there is a blatant bias towards Fire Emblem, it’s just unarguable. Though to be fair I’m not upset with Byleth just supporting my stance
I really do hope one of the last six characters are from BotW2. It'd be so painful to watch Ultimate go away without a single character from either of the BotW games.
 

SvartWolf

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I want to point out that not only Sakurai is a big FE fan. a good chunk of the developers team is a big FE fan.
The development team that sakurai leads is the one that pushed for corrin (with maybe a little bug encouragment from nintendo) Remember how he said that there were also tons of song from fire emblem and that it was because the team wanted to work on that songs.

I'm also a little fed up that people just straight up ignore that lucina and Chrom are echoes (wouldn't mind they gone, but we aren't winning much by cutting them anyways) and that Roy gets shoved as another number for teh fire emblem fans, when at least on teh west, Roy is a character that was readded due to fan demand, and not FE fan demand but Smash Bros Melee fan demand. I know there are a couple of true Roy supporters out there but mostly is because he is a melee character.

Still FE three houses is 100% worth of the rep and love it has got. Maybe a Xenoblade Chronicles X character would have been better than corrin as promotion pick, but thats not FE three houses fault :(

Sadly is way to late for keep hating on Corrin, he is already part of teh cast, and as a mewtwo supporter, i know how ****ty is that your character to get cut.
 
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CodakTheWarrior

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If we are gonna use sales numbers as an argument, then by this logic shouldn't from the following franchises be cut?

Every Star Fox, Mother/Earthbound, Kid Icarus, Metroid, Bayonetta, and F-Zero character. Since those franchises rarely if ever light up the sales and only have a niche fanbase at best.
Well also to be fair none of those series make up 10% of the roster
 

DarthEnderX

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Deserving a slot doesn’t even mean anything.

Fictional characters don’t do anything to “deserve” a slot because they don’t have free will. The developers would be the ones to “deserve” anything.
Sure, but "The developers of the Zelda franchise deserve another character" is a hell of a lot more cumbersome than "Zelda deserves another character".

How about we just not be needlessly obtuse and pretend we don't understand that when someone uses the latter, they probably intend the former.

Mario, Luigi, Dr. Mario, and Wario should all be on the same roster icon because they all have huge noses, wear overalls, have bright colored hats, use their hands and feet to fight, and what have you. If they look similar and use similar weapons to fight, I don't see why it should matter. They're all the same, you know?

Peach, Daisy, Rosalina, and Zelda should all be costumes of one another because they're all princesses. Sure, Rosalina has a Luma, but she's just so similar to Peach. That long dress...those blonde-ish locks of beautiful hair...they just look...so...SIMILAR.

Ridley should be put into the rotation of Pokemon Trainer as a swap out for Charizard, because they're both dragons. I mean, sure, you say Ridley is in space and Charizard can have various personalities. But they're both DRAGONS. They could easily fit over one another.

Sheik should just be a Greninja costume because they're clearly so similar to each other. Uh, hello??? THEY'RE BOTH NINJAS! Why bother giving them that extra slot if they are basically the same thing, know what I'm saying?

King K. Rool should be a Bowser costume. They're both reptilian ogrelords who have nothing better to do than annoy their rivals. There isn't really THAT MUCH that separates them.

Ness, Lucas, and Villager should all just be costumes for each other because they're basically small children in shape and size. There are only a few ways small children can fight, and they can all do it!

Fox, Falco, and Wolf should just be costumes because they all shoot guns and are furries. Get these weird humanoid animals out of here.

Ok, I'm done being a turd, lol. (Ironically added Star Fox after initially posting and saying "K I'm done" lmao)
Joking aside, yes, a lot of those COULD have been alts.

It basically boils down to: Do these characters play the same in their home game(or worse, are they actually just the same character)? Then they could be an alt.

Could Dr. Mario and Luigi have been Mario alts? Yes. At least until they decide to base Luigi more on Luigi's Mansion than Mario Bros. Could Wario? Not really.

That said alts should be limited to the same franchise.
 
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Lamperouge

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Are people still arguing about this crap?
It's been 2 days already.
T W O D A Y S A L R E A D Y
Byleth hate will never completely die down because "hur dur Fire Emblem bad".

That being said, I'll be too busy enjoying my main in a couple of weeks to bother giving a ****.
 

Idon

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I don't understand why Granblue should be in Smash.

Dragalia Lost is at least a part of Nintendo's history whereas Granblue is just a mobile game that has almost no connection with Nintendo whatsoever outside of a spin-off fighting game.

At least games like Final Fantasy 7 and Persona 5 have connections in the form of their roots, Granblue doesn't have any sort of connection which is why I'd prefer Dragalia 10x more.
If you want to argue about which one deserves to be in more, sure.

But Granblue is cygames's darling baby and flagship game, so if they were going to get a cygames character, it's probably gonna be from that, especially considering how much granblue eclipses dragalia in terms of being marketed, its sales, its crossovers, and its spinoffs. I would think picking Dragalia over Granblue would be like picking TMS over P5.
 
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TheCJBrine

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While I don’t think it matters how much representation FE or other series get, should a gacha game’s revenue really be compared to the sales of a $60 game and its few one-time purchase DLC stuffs?
 

GoodGrief741

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If we are gonna use sales numbers as an argument, then by this logic shouldn't from the following franchises be cut?

Every Star Fox, Mother/Earthbound, Kid Icarus, Metroid, Bayonetta, and F-Zero character. Since those franchises rarely if ever light up the sales and only have a niche fanbase at best.
I don't think anyone wants franchise representation to be done on a cash-and-sales basis. People want iconic and influential franchises and games to be represented, and sometimes weird lesser known stuff.

The argument devolves into sales because there's no other objective way to quantify how iconic and influential and popular FE is. But I agree that shouldn't be the point of discussion.
 

Scoliosis Jones

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I think we should pr
Sure, but "The developers of the Zelda franchise deserve another character" is a hell of a lot more cumbersome than "Zelda deserves another character".

How about we just not be needlessly obtuse and pretend we don't understand when someone uses the latter.
Or, it may be better avoid the obviously subjective "deserving" suggestion and state why a character should be added based on gameplay and other attributes?

I could say one thing is deserving. You disagree, and we get nowhere. Now, if I say, "X character would be a really cool pick and here's why" there's far more to bring to that conversation.
 

Cutie Gwen

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While I don’t think it matters how much representation FE or other series get, should a gacha game’s revenue really be compared to the sales of a $60 game and its few one-time purchase DLC stuffs?
The thing with gacha is that it won't stop making money due to the frequent updates and manipulative practices, how else did the Fate franchise earn more money the the entirety of God-****ing-zilla?
 

I.D.

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I really do hope one of the last six characters are from BotW2. It'd be so painful to watch Ultimate go away without a single character from either of the BotW games.
Watch people try to use the 30$ Zelda mii costume of season 2 for their conspiracy theories just like the 25$ Rex mii costume :laugh:
 

CodakTheWarrior

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I really do hope one of the last six characters are from BotW2. It'd be so painful to watch Ultimate go away without a single character from either of the BotW games.
Assuming the second pass has a ‘promotional’ character, my hopes and prayers to goodness are a character from BotW 2, though it honestly just feels like Sakurai has a bias against LoZ characters at this point so I unfortunately doubt it
 

Garteam

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You only think he shouldn't because Smash already gave him a unique moveset. In the FE games, he doesn't play any differently from any of the other Lord protags. He didn't deserve a unique moveset any more than Roy or Chrom did. He just happened to be the one that got one.
I'm sorry, but that's not even remotely true.

Most Fire Emblem lords are nobles with a fighting style based around traditional European swordplay (with a high emphasis on fencing) because they were taught by knights either in a traditional military academy or some sort of royal court. As such, their swordplay mostly focuses on fluidity and by-the-books technique. This reflects into their gameplay: lords often have strong skill and speed, but often struggle with strength and defence. To compensate for this, they will often have abilities that other characters don't (such as access to the convoy) and will gain some new toys upon promotion (such as upgrading to a mount and receiving lances).

By contrast, Ike is a mercenary who was taught by his non-noble father in a custom type of swordplay based around brute strength and remaining unpredictable. Ike's swordplay looks more like he's using an axe than a sword. Likewise, Ike differs in gameplay in that he doesn't get many of the advantages that a traditional lord does (getting a mount, or gaining an additional weapon), but he has much higher stats (both in growths and caps) than a standard lord. He plays a lot closer to a mercenary than a lord, which is why Radiant Dawn changed his class from Lord to Hero.

You couldn't make Ike a Marth clone because it doesn't fit his character. It'd be extremely strange to see Ike using a Marth's refined, very vanilla fighting style.
 
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GoodGrief741

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One thing I never understood is when people use the fact that Fire Emblem and Pokemon getting new characters every game to justify their inclusions over other franchises. Mario and Zelda also get new characters nearly every game. And just because a character is new they're more worthy of getting representation than an older character with tons of appearances? That argument never clicked with me.
 

Captain Shwampy

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Fire Emblem causes controversy every couple years in smash and than the next game manages to make a couple millions more than the last
 

GoodGrief741

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Fire Emblem causes controversy every couple years in smash and than the next game manages to make a couple millions more than the last
I know, right? It's baffling to me that Nintendo still treats FE like their small underdog series when it's honestly a pretty massive success when looking at the trajectory and genre. You'd think they'd want to promote their other franchises, but nope.
 

Krankees

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089.jpg

It seems interesting that the first fighter's pass is mostly of niche characters. Banjo is debatable but the rest are pretty niche characters. Maybe there's a sort of trend going on.
 

Droodle

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If you want to argue about which one deserves to be in more, sure.

But Granblue is cygames's darling baby and flagship game, so if they were going to get a cygames character, it's probably gonna be from that, especially considering how much granblue eclipses dragalia in terms of being marketed, its sales, its crossovers, and its spinoffs. I would think picking Dragalia over Granblue would be like picking TMS over P5.
I doubt we'll get a Cygames rep, but they can literally rep all their games by just putting in someone like Jeanne/Lucifer/Albert. They all appear in all of their major properties; and I'm fairly certain that they're all very popular in Japan.

I don't think Lucifer is in Dragalia yet; but I doubt he'll never get in even if they have to use Lucio instead.

Not really into GBF/Dragalia so someone else can probably fill better then me.
 

Scoliosis Jones

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One thing I never understood is when people use the fact that Fire Emblem and Pokemon getting new characters every game to justify their inclusions over other franchises. Mario and Zelda also get new characters nearly every game. And just because a character is new they're more worthy of getting representation than an older character with tons of appearances? That argument never clicked with me.
The key difference between Fire Emblem/Pokemon and Zelda or Mario is that the main cast of characters is what changes in Fire Emblem and Pokemon. In Zelda and Mario games, the main protagonist and major players are typically the same.

Now, does that mean that side characters like the Champions would be poor choices? No. I actually thought we might get a Champion in base game. However, as I said earlier, DLC picks have almost always been the main protagonist of the games they come from. Zelda can't really fit that, and neither can Mario.

Not saying it's a good or bad thing that they pass over Zelda or Mario. Just pointing this out is all.
 
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