Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[TheCJBrine]

The key difference between Fire Emblem/Pokemon and Zelda or Mario is that the main cast of characters is what changes in Fire Emblem and Pokemon. In Zelda and Mario games, the main protagonist and major players are typically the same.

Now, does that mean that side characters like the Champions would be poor choices? No. I actually thought we might get a Champion in base game. However, as I said earlier, DLC picks have almost always been the main protagonist of the games they come from. Zelda can't really fit that, and neither can Mario.

Not saying it's a good or bad thing that they pass over Zelda or Mario. Just pointing this out is all.

Midna was basically with the main cast in Twilight Princess and was the secondary protagonist. Hyrule Warriors brings her and others back as playable regardless.

Geno was with the main cast in SMRPG and Waluigi still is if Rosalina and Daisy count as well.

Bandana Dee is with the main cast of Kirby.

maybe some other examples I’m failing to think of.

You must have a pretty high opinion of yourself if you can tell me what I thought. Well, the only newcomers I've thought implausible beforehand have been Richter, Piranha Plant, and Terry. That's not to say I predicted all the others, just that the notion of their inclusion didn't strike me as a long shot.

Because all plausibility is is gauging which characters rank highly in factors that historically have lead to inclusion, or have extenuating boons in their case, such as developer statements, suspicious omissions, or believable leaks. It's just reading the terrain to come to an educated deduction. It's not infallible, but, unless your head is in the clouds, it's not worthless either.

So, if you found all the characters in the pass implausible beforehand as you're accusing of me, and you think your list with, like, Earthworm Jim, Klonoa, the Battletoads and F-Type is comparable from a likelihood perspective, I'd say my outlook is more reliable.


Yes, you're some great martyr that looks at two characters with original movesets and argues unironically that they've brought nothing new.

Just ignore him, he’s a troll (at least in certain situations) and is very narcissistic.

 

[StarBot]

Papagenos acted like a ****ing manchild, threw his hat and screamed at Sakurai for SDing with the other 4 DLC characters because of his FE bias

Yikes! Did he really bloody do that?

I only saw the beginning of his reaction, because it was that annoying and how repetitive it was

But if he really did that, then jfc, I'm gonna have to unsubscribe after that

There being upset and dispointed, and there being angry

Even the most anti FE person would had know, that Sakurai only did that as to showcase the new bloody character / likes to flexs on his skills

You have to be THAT type of butthurt to ingore that mulitple of times how much Sakurai puts so much effort into the DLC characters (and ingoreing how much he fanboy over Persona, and SNK)

To take a small gag and take that as "yeah, this is a sign that Sakurai hates the other DLC characters!!1 he's that baised!!"

I bet all my life savings that if the character was Rex, or literally any other character that wasn't Geno or Arle, Mr. Geno would had been still complaining and upset

 

[Garteam]

Not just that, but in late 2017 they even teased an Anime being in the works.
https://www.destructoid.com/fire-emblem-anime-hits-the-rumor-mill-457769.phtml
But admittedly it hasn't been talked about since so we have no idea what happen to it.

A Fire Emblem anime would be pretty great. Especially if they took the approach that JoJo's did by starting at the beginning of the franchise and working their way up. I desperately want to see a take on the Akaneia saga using the personalities and designs for the characters used in Heroes and Warriors.

 

[cosmicB]

Yes I'm aware that Heroes has made over 500 million in revenue. I'm asking this guy if he knows for sure that Breath of the Wild hasn't made more with sales of physical copies, digital and DLC (not even taking into account the Switch sales it has no doubt moved on its own).

It made over 500 Million as of last year. Assuming stagnant growth, they'd be at 750 million right now, which is the equivalent of 12.5 million sales on a $60 game.

But revenue generated isn't that simple. You also have to take into account overhead. Paying salaries, time, physical distribution, paying free-lancers, etc. This is of course impossible to know if you don't work for Nintendo themselves, but I think we can both assume that BOTW cost A LOT more to make than FEH. We're talking a 4+ year development cycle, growing pains with HD development, and a massive team. FEH is relatively lowkey compared to that and is also digital only

You're right that I don't know which has made Nintendo more money oveall, so it was a mistake to say something so absolutist, but I imagine the revenue generated is comparable.

 

[Jomosensual]

If that's the case then the people saying he should be fired are 100% correct.

This is the worst post I've ever read on this site

 

[Knight Dude]

To be fair, to not spoil too much, X ended on a sequel hook, so it's very likely Elma will return in X2, and thus I think she'd be more likely to be picked

and then there's Mecha-Fiora. Yes I know she's in Shulk's Final Smash but. Chrom. Just Chrom.

It's why I'm hoping one of the dudes in Mega Man's Final Smash gets something similar. Fiora would be pretty cool too, from what I've seen of her moves.

 

[Nemuresu]

3 Houses already beat Fates which was the highest previously pretty fast

Where are the numbers then?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Yikes! Did he really bloody do that?

I only saw the beginning of his reaction, because it was that annoying and how repetitive it was

But if he really did that, then jfc, I'm gonna have to unsubscribe after that

There being upset and dispointed, and there being angry

Even the most anti FE person would had know, that Sakurai only did that as to showcase the new bloody character / likes to flexs on his skills

You have to be THAT type of butthurt to ingore that mulitple of times how much Sakurai puts so much effort into the DLC characters (and ingoreing how much he fanboy over Persona, and SNK)

To take a small gag and take that as "yeah, this is a sign that Sakurai hates the other DLC characters!!1 he's that baised!!"

I bet all my life savings that if the character was Rex, or literally any other character that wasn't Geno or Arle, Mr. Geno would had been still complaining and upset

At the same time he mentioned **** like Monster Hunter and Ivy as 'better options' when seeing Byleth in action, though that certainly doesn't make him less whiny

 

[CodakTheWarrior]

Midna was basically with the main cast in Twilight Princess and was the secondary protagonist. Hyrule Warriors brings her and others back as playable regardless.

Geno was with the main cast in SMRPG and Waluigi still is if Rosalina and Daisy count as well.

Bandana Dee is with the main cast of Kirby.

maybe some other examples I’m failing to think of.

Absolutely true, I think Geno has a decent shot for this pass though, I could personally see him as an E3 reveal

 

[NintenZ]

You're missing the point of the comparison.

Why would they choose a character for the connection it has to Nintendo when instead they have their own franchise which they absolutely love moreso?
At the point where a company pays for a concert, a convention, a fighting game, and an action game (and whatever else I forgot) for their own personal gacha, I think it's safe to say that's where their priorities lie.

It's still not really a great comparison.

A better one would've been W101 and Bayonetta honestly.

 

[Cosmic77]

You pretty much nailed it in the head. No one would give a **** that Fire Emblem has 8 characters if the other first party IPs received the same amount of love as well.

It also doesn't help that it basically took the entire fanbase coming together just to get another Metroid and DK rep whereas FE effortlessly got three unique characters despite there being not only little demand for those characters, but actually a noticeable amount of demand to not have those characters added.

 

[Animegamingnerd]

Yeah, anyone who says that FE is not a big IP nowadays for Nintendo is just wrong.

You can say that you don't like Byleth in Smash; but FE is definitely a major IP.

Not on the levels of let's say Mario, DK, Pokemon, Zelda, Splatoon; but with how rapidly it's been growing since Awakening, it's bigger then the likes of Metroid, Star fox, and Mario RPGs.

Since Awakening's success FE has had hit after hit; and arguably still has yet to reach its peak. It's gotten a successful gacha, card game, and multiple spinoffs.

The only other series that has boomed like FE is Xenoblade after 2; and even then it's not even close in terms of overall popularity.

Xenoblade does feel like its about 1 or 2 more games away from becoming as major as Fire Emblem is. Each game has sold better then the last one, with Xenoblade 2 being Monolithsoft's best selling game period. With Monolthsoft being a very important developer to Nintendo with their Kyoto helping on franchises like Pikmin, Animal Crossing, and Splatoon and even their main studio being a co-developer on BOTW and its sequel due to their experience with open world RPG's. Hell I would go as far to say that Monolithsoft is probably out of obviously the EPD teams, Nintendo's most important first party studio.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Where are the numbers then?

We had about 2.3 million reported back in September, which was about 2 months at most since launch, Nintendo's next fiscal reportings should be in March iirc, so we'll see new, up to date figures by then

 

[Garteam]

It's why I'm hoping one of the dudes in Mega Man's Final Smash gets something similar. Fiora would be pretty cool too, from what I've seen of her moves.

Getting Mega Man X as a fighter to tie in with an X9 would make my life complete.

 

[Dr. Jojo Phantasma]

Where are the numbers then?

https://www.dualshockers.com/fire-emblem-three-houses-best-fire-emblem-sales-ever/

Here you go, buddy. It already did over 2 million in a few months. By now it is probably over 3.

 

[Idon]

It's still not really a great comparison.

A better one would've been W101 and Bayonetta honestly.

Okay fine, then use that for your comparison. I really don't care.

The same point still remains. Bayonetta got in and Wonder Red didn't.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Xenoblade does feel like its about 1 or 2 more games away from becoming as major as Fire Emblem is. Each game has sold better then the last one, with Xenoblade 2 being Monolithsoft's best selling game period. With Monolthsoft being a very important developer to Nintendo with their Kyoto helping on franchises like Pikmin, Animal Crossing, and Splatoon and even their main studio being a co-developer on BOTW and its sequel due to their experience with open world RPG's. Hell I would go as far to say that Monolithsoft is probably out of obviously the EPD teams, Nintendo's most important first party studio.

Didn't X sell slightly more than Xeno 1 on the Wii? though I imagine X would have sold MORE were it not for, well... the Wii U and that period's utterly abysmal marketing

 

[Schnee117]

but actually a noticeable amount of demand to not have those characters added.

Those people played themselves.
Going on about not wanting another FE character just adds even more voices to the crowd talking about FE in regards to Smash regardless of the context.

 

[NintenZ]

Okay fine, then use that for your comparison. I really don't care.

The same point still remains.

I mean at the same time my point that it only really benefits CyGames also applies.

Granblue is big in Japan yes, but there's pretty much no overlap with Nintendo's audience in almost any way, that's why it doesn't make sense.

CyGames isn't the only one in charge of Dragalia Lost, remember that.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Those people played themselves.
Going on about not wanting another FE character just adds even more voices to the crowd talking about FE in regards to Smash regardless of the context.

I'm not sure how that works. Characters aren't added because of how many people are talking about them, if anything they're added because of how many people want them.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Again, depends on who you're talking about. I don't think it's that black or white.

My guess would be:

• Tingle would be bad initially, but depending on execution would have a similar reception to that of Piranha Plant.
• Wolf Link & Midna would be mixed. On the one hand, it's Link again. On the other hand, Midna's here too.
• Girahim would probably garner praise from The Legend of Zelda fanbase, but they'd also have to deal with the "Ew anime swordfighter" crowd.
  • His tongue action would continue to make me uncomfortable.
• Impa and Vaati would be the best received, with Vaati likely being the more visually and mechanically interesting of the two.
• The champions (Urbosa in particular) would be decently well received as well.
• A Deku Baba would not be well received.

 

[Nemuresu]

https://www.dualshockers.com/fire-emblem-three-houses-best-fire-emblem-sales-ever/

Here you go, buddy. It already did over 2 million in a few months. By now it is probably over 3.

Those numbers are from this past october and NPD's report is just from two days ago. The fact that it couldn't even be in the Switch's top 10 best sellers from 2019 suggests that those numbers didn't grow that much.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I think a lot of folks would be much better off accepting the fact that Ultimate will have Byleth in it by the end of the month, and will have Byleth in it for the remainder of existence, and instead of endlessly being mad about something that they won't be able to change, go back to supporting the character they really want.

Sure, be upset. But as folks mentioned earlier, none of the frustration is actually going to change anything unless it's put into something productive.

I'm just going to be over here, hoping for Dante, 2B, Crash...maybe Heihachi, Lloyd Irving, or a Dark Souls mii costume or Hollow Knight costume. There's still plenty that could get me excited.

EDIT: Please don't tell me that we're going to start saying that Three Houses wasn't a success because it didn't do Zelda numbers again.

 

[Goombaic]

The key difference between Fire Emblem/Pokemon and Zelda or Mario is that the main cast of characters is what changes in Fire Emblem and Pokemon.

THERE IT IS!
"Zelda can't have a new character because they're a one-off." They say as Sakurai adds Fire Emblem protagonists, Lucas, and so many other one-off characters that only reappear as cameos in later games of their series or in fanservice projects, much like certain Zelda characters winkwinknudgenudge.

This applies to Kirby, Xenoblade, and several other franchises too. I'm not particularly in favor of more Fire Emblem characters and I want more Pokemon myself "Wow you want more Pokemon and have problems with more Fire Emblem? You're such a hypocrite lolololololol" but this "rotating main casts hurt/help a character's odds when it validates my opinion" bull has to die. It annoys me to no end.

 

[N3ON]

But I think you are looking the problem with the wrong view imo. I'm almost sure people would accept FE characters more if more first party franchises receive more love.

In term of fighters where are Golden Sun and Rythm Heaven? Why is Dixie Kong still not in the game despise being one of the main character of the Donkey Kong Country? Same goes for Bandana Dee (more than 10 years whitout a new kirby rep). Xenoblade Chronciles could takes an other fighter without a doubt (Rex, Elma or Team Lora). Why not adding Poochy for the Yoshi serie? An other Wario Ware rep? Sure bring one. For oldies an Excitebike or Machrider fighter both have potentiel. And Zelda OH SWEET ZELDA. Why not Ganon, Impa, wolf link with Midona or even Tingle.

I've yet to see anybody give the disparity point a decent rebuttal. Usually it's just "but Mario and Pokemon!" or "but FE is good!".

Either that or it gets brushed aside and people conflate every complaint with "**** FE" and follow with "they just salty they didn't get their character" so as to invalidate the, imo, insightful criticism such as this.

 

[Garteam]

I have to say, of all the videos making fun of Byleth, Dunkey had the best one. Either he's a closeted Fire Emblem fan, or he dug extremely deep for a ****post.

 

[ThatOneAnon]

Jesus Christ.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Midna was basically with the main cast in Twilight Princess and was the secondary protagonist. Hyrule Warriors brings her and others back as playable regardless.

Twice might I add.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Yeah, while I don’t think it matters how many characters a series gets, I can understand why some fans are tired of FE.

Admittedly, as a Zelda fan, I do have a bit of a jealous feeling of FE since, while Zelda only has two characters less and gets more stages and items, we literally have two Zeldas and three Links with Ganondorf either in a fetal position because of it or laughing mad because he gets clones of the triforce to steal.

 

[[Maple]]

I have to say, of all the videos making fun of Byleth, Dunkey had the best one. Either he's a closeted Fire Emblem fan, or he dug extremely deep for a ****post.

He's a legendary ****poster after all

 

[Animegamingnerd]

I have to say, of all the videos making fun of Byleth, Dunkey had the best one. Either he's a closeted Fire Emblem fan, or he dug extremely deep for a ****post.

Considering its Dunkey who has stated multiple times to not be a fan of JRPG's, its definitely the latter.
I mean for **** sake he made this video explaining the entire Kingdom Hearts lore in 4 minutes and do a solid job at it where the entire joke is how insane KH's story is.

 

[StarBot]

This thread is literally just pretending Incineroar didn't happend huh

 

[blackghost]

None.

I don't think "PapaGenos, Vinny, Maximillian Dood, tons of really high profile YTers" very much care about Rex as much as they simply being disappointed, lol.

max was deflated because hes a dante fan. and so much was pointing to him being number 5. max even did a smash leak video and he never does that. i still think dante is getting in. putting travis in over dante doesnt make sense

 

[Garteam]

Jesus Christ.

And I thought the people ****ting on Zack Aguilar for voicing Byleth were heartless. This is just ****ed up.

 

[Captain Shwampy]

People underestimate how japnese game sells work:

Be reminded the FE has sold more than 2 mill 3 times consecutively

150k-200k: This usually the right mark for new IPs, niche games, and a dormant franchise. At this point a sequel might be considered and devs must find a way to make the game better and more profitable next time so it has legs to last long enough.

300k-500k: This is success. Guarantees a sequel. If the series manages to have legs that stand long enough to have around this much with each entry than that guarantees merchandise, concerts, Anime's, and other things. It is now a franchise.

 

[Cosmic77]

Well, to take a break from FE, I'm happy to see LM3 and SwSh selling well.

LM3 became the 5th best-selling game of 2019 in the US despite only being on sale for 2 months.

Pokemon Sword itself was the 6th best-selling game. Shield was 9th. Combine the two, and you probably have a game that's somewhere in the top 3, and that's only a month and a half of sales.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I think a lot of folks would be much better off accepting the fact that Ultimate will have Byleth in it by the end of the month, and will have Byleth in it for the remainder of existence, and instead of endlessly being mad about something that they won't be able to change, go back to supporting the character they really want.

Sure, be upset. But as folks mentioned earlier, none of the frustration is actually going to change anything unless it's put into something productive.

I'm just going to be over here, hoping for Dante, 2B, Crash...maybe Heihachi, Lloyd Irving, or a Dark Souls mii costume or Hollow Knight costume. There's still plenty that could get me excited.

EDIT: Please don't tell me that we're going to start saying that Three Houses wasn't a success because it didn't do Zelda numbers again.

Nah fam my friends and I play FFAs which Byleth seems to favour of 1v1s, they're gonna hate Corrin even more like how they hate Hero after my crusade of 30% Thwacking

 

[Idon]

I mean at the same time my point that it only really benefits CyGames also applies.

Granblue is big in Japan yes, but there's pretty much no overlap with Nintendo's audience in almost any way, that's why it doesn't make sense.

CyGames isn't the only one in charge of Dragalia Lost, remember that.

I do remember, and I'm saying so what if it only introduces Cygames's audience? It's completely irrelevant at this point in Smash's life. What exactly is the benefit of appealing to those scant fans that both like Dragalia Lost and Nintendo's other games when Cygames's core audience exists?

Like, do you honestly think Joker or Terry or Cloud were chosen because of the tiny overlap they have with the overall Nintendo fanbase? Obviously not, they got in because they're the biggest people in their respective companies.

And even then as far as audiences go, there's definitely a greater overlap between Dragalia Lost fans and Granblue fans than there are Dragalia Lost and the "general Nintendo audience."

 

[Animegamingnerd]

Well, to take a break from FE, I'm happy to see LM3 and SwSh selling well.

LM3 became the 5th best-selling game of 2019 in the US despite only being on sale for 2 months.

Pokemon Sword itself was the 6th best-selling game. Shield was 9th. Combine the two, and you probably have a game that's somewhere in the top 3, and that's only a month and a half of sales.

Luigi Manson 3's legs are impressive, its probably Next Level Game's best selling game ever and will likely sale over 10 million copies at this rate.

 

[Krankees]

Considering its Dunkey who has stated multiple times to not be a fan of JRPG's, its definitely the latter.
I mean for **** sake he made this video explaining the entire Kingdom Hearts lore in 4 minutes and do a solid job at it where the entire joke is how insane KH's story is.

Every time I think I understand the Kingdom Hearts story, I'm still lost.