Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[GoodGrief741]

Aside from the poor reception to this character getting in... what do people think about the moveset?
Looks very generic to me

I think it's rad.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Honestly, looking back at all the Fire Emblem characters, it's insane how Marth's the only one who didn't get hella lucky. Roy was a quick clone who just so happened to have a game coming out, Ike just so happened to be a heavy with a sword, which Sakurai wanted, Robin was almost dismissed for being too old, Lucina was planned as merely an alt, Corrin just so happened to have a game come out and an upcoming game at the same time and Sakurai wanted a promotional pick, Chrom had assets made already and had Roy's rework to thank for his inclusion and Byleth got in when Rex couldn't due to 3H getting delayed for 2 years. It's ****ing hilarious to me

Also Marth just makes sense to be there since he's a historic Nintendo icon alongside the other 80's characters.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

At this point it's just better to ignore both Sabi and Vergeben since they're not reliable anymore.

 

[Sean²]

How is Dante not a shoe-in at this point? What other developer has played this game of "hehe i dunnooo you'll have to ask Nintendo~~" for this long? They've teased and teased, no way their announcement on Twitter wasn't some sort of freak coincidence. Then the teasing of asking Nintendo for DMC games for Switch, immediately followed by said games' announcement?

Also speculating a new Pokemon, if not Rillaboom for rounding out the starter types, then whomever wins the popularity contest this time around.

If Rex/Pyra, Rex/Mythra, or just Rex alone were in existence when decisions for this round of DLC were made, then they're almost a shoe-in as well.

Question remains on who I think the other three would be. I'd like to have Master Chief on the table, but have more doubts about him than the aforementioned characters.

 

[Nemuresu]

At this point it's just better to ignore both Sabi and Vergeben since they're not reliable anymore.

Even if the latter leaked the presentation's mii costumes while it was running?

 

[M@R!3]

Aside from the poor reception to this character getting in... what do people think about the moveset?
Looks very generic to me

I'm going to have to disagree with you there. Byleth's got some pretty interesting options with both their specials and normals.

 

[Deleted member]

Aren't bans via request a thing here?

Warnings doesn't sound fine if the person doesn't desire to break the rules.

I made a bet. Besides, being an idiot about it is part of the fun.

 

[Animegamingnerd]

Aside from the poor reception to this character getting in... what do people think about the moveset?
Looks very generic to me

If he is solid, I might end up making them at least a secondary.

 

[Flik]

So now that we all know the characters of our first pass. How would you rate it and the characters?

0, 10, 8, 8 & 9 out of 10.
Average = 7.4 (pretty good)

 

[BernkastelWitch]

I do wanna say Dante is pretty likely for Season 2 despite not being FP5. He just seems like the kind of character who would eventually make it in.

Also with it being six characters, I can see a good portion of that list being more niche/lesser known characters too. I can't see all of Wave 2 being nothing but purely big names, after all.

 

[Herocin]

Gonna lay down a few predictions: since we still have a few Square, Capcom and Namco Mii Costumes missing, I think half of season 2 will come from these three companies and the rest will be from new ones.

I'm betting on 2B, Dante and Heihachi, respectively.



I propose a game. Every single time someone says 'Larua Caroft's' name from now on, you have to spell it wrong in a different manner, without repeating.

Judging by how the Capcom mii outfits are being handled, I wouldn’t put too much stock into the mii outfits correlating with companies as Capcom have been getting them left, right and center with no sign of a new character.

 

[Schnee117]

Honestly, looking back at all the Fire Emblem characters, it's insane how Marth's the only one who didn't get hella lucky. Roy was a quick clone who just so happened to have a game coming out, Ike just so happened to be a heavy with a sword, which Sakurai wanted, Robin was almost dismissed for being too old, Lucina was planned as merely an alt, Corrin just so happened to have a game come out and an upcoming game at the same time and Sakurai wanted a promotional pick, Chrom had assets made already and had Roy's rework to thank for his inclusion and Byleth got in when Rex couldn't due to 3H getting delayed for 2 years. It's ****ing hilarious to me

Luck Theory time boiz

Lucky Chloe
Master Chief
Kazuma (Konosuba)
BB (Fate GO)
Clover Ebi
And finally

 

[Cutie Gwen]

So now that we all know the characters of our first pass. How would you rate it and the characters?

Now that we actually have full info...

Joker: 4/5 I don't really click with the character well but the moveset is fun, the stage is beautiful and the music is godlike

Hero: 4/5 While the stage is ok at best due to being visually similar to a chunk of other stages, the music is as the youngins call it, the big oof. That being said playing as Hero is so ****ing fun that I have never been mad when playing I have to crank the score up a notch, especially as they gave 8 the blue palette.

Banjo: 1/5 Not fun to play, don't like any of the songs and the stage is pretty disorienting to me alongside being another blue sky green fields stage.

Terry: 5/5 50 songs? Check. An amazing stage that not only is able to stand out from similar looking stages, but has the coolest ****ing gimmick in a long time? Check. A character with lots of cool, satisfying moves that make me feel glad I chose to play the character? Check. Terry's literally the best DLC we've gotten, the fact I wanted him in the game to begin with doesn't hurt either

Byleth: 4/5 While Claude and Edelgard would have been significantly better due to being ACTUAL characters, the cameos in the stage look really damn rough and my 2 favourite songs aren't in the game, I ****in adore 3H and I'm so glad my favourite game of 2019 managed to beat the odds. The moveset looks pretty damn fun albeit Byleth themselves don't look like they'll fair well competitively and ****ing Femleth is great, like with Corrin, they decided to give the girl some extra personality. The salt a lot of people have doesn't help either, the more people hate Fire Emblem, the more my love and desire for it grows

 

[N3ON]

I don't think it did. IIRC Sabi said it wasn't Nintendo though, so lol.

You could set a slideshow of Sabi's claims (excuse me, pseudo-claims) since October to this:

Verg's aren't that much better, but he was right about some stuff, and he didn't flip-flop quite as many times, so it wouldn't be as funny.

Uh.... is there a way you can find this because...

View attachment 258122

That's dumb as hell.

 

[3BitSaurus]

So now that we all know the characters of our first pass. How would you rate it and the characters?

Copied from the RTC thread:

So, general Pass ratings:
- 9/10
- 8/10
- 10/10
- 9.5/10
- 6/10

TOTAL: 8,5/10 - Three characters I really like, one I enjoy and one neutral. In the end, it was indeed worth my money.

Judging by how the Capcom mii outfits are being handled, I wouldn’t put too much stock into the mii outfits correlating with companies as Capcom have been getting them left, right and center with no sign of a new character.

True, but the four costumes we got were all from Mega Man, with the MH ones still missing. Plus, Square's costumes have always come with a new character for them and I see no reason for them to just throw the Geno and Chocobo outfits away, especially when the former is a base game Spirit already. Finally, Heihachi being left out from Terry's collection of fighting game costumes is a pretty big red flag imo.

Could it all still mean nothing? Yeah. But as of now, I do think it means something.

 

[shinhed-echi]

So now that we all know the characters of our first pass. How would you rate it and the characters?

(1 being absolute hate, 5 being perfectly neutral/indifferent, and 10 being absolute adoration).

6/10
10/10
7/10
8/10
4/10

 

[andree123]

So guys what are your Hope's for the six character's coming what do you guys want them to be slash hope they'll be here are mine View attachment 258052View attachment 258053View attachment 258054View attachment 258055View attachment 258056
Honorable mention to Sora Dante and someone from the Shin Megami Tensei series

1. Lloyd: For filling in the missing spot for Bandai Namco.
2. Rex: Cut character.
3. Isaac: For the fans of the Golden Sun series.
4. Springman: Another cut character.
5. Ayumi: Can tie-in very well with the Famicom Tantei Club remake since a official Localization of the game is possible now.
6. Rayman: I ran out of ideas. But I don't think he may be joining in smash.
I'm believing that Sakurai may give us only 8 fighters that don't have a non-playable spirit version of themselves and the other 8 being the ones who were in the game as non-playable spirits.

 

[Herocin]

Copied from the RTC thread:

So, general Pass ratings:
- 9/10
- 8/10
- 10/10
- 9.5/10
- 6/10

TOTAL: 8,5/10 - Three characters I really like, one I enjoy and one neutral. In the end, it was indeed worth my money.



True, but the four costumes we got were all from Mega Man, with the MH ones still missing. Plus, Square's costumes have always come with a new character for them and I see no reason for them to just throw the Geno and Chocobo outfits away, especially when the former is a base game Spirit already. Finally, Heihachi being left out from Terry's collection of fighting game costumes is a pretty big red flag imo.

Could it all still mean nothing? Yeah. But as of now, I do think it means something.

I’ll admit the heihachi and square outfits being omitted is suspicios but st the very least the monster hunter ones will probably return down the road with some other newcomer just due to Capcom being such a generous third party when it comes to content in smash and is probably the easiest to work with.

 

[Sari]

So now that we all know the characters of our first pass. How would you rate it and the characters?

: 7/10
: 8/10
: 7/10
: 10/10
Byleth: 9/10

 

[kirbsmash]

I KNEW that if we get 3H rep, it would be them.

Cutie Gwen if it's the main character, then they have to go for them.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

So now that we all know the characters of our first pass. How would you rate it and the characters?

Joker: 10/10 My pipe dream character, I'm thankful everyday that this character and this game I adore made it into Smash bros when I never thought in a million years they would actually make it in. And seeing my favorite female character, Makoto be in the background of his stuff makes me happy.

Hero: kinda feels like I wished on a monkey's paw with this since I wanted Layton and Sora but instead of getting either of them I got a Square owned level 5 character. Overall I liked this inclusion because it feels 100% natural and it made me want to play more of a series I only briefly dabbled in before.

Banjo: Banjo was one of the earliest games I ever played when I was like 2 years old. My older relatives all love this character so seeing the joy on their faces made it worth it. And I can't help but feel emotional seeing him amongst his real Nintendo family once again.

Terry: like Banjo, the SNK library was one I heavily enjoyed when I was a really young child but they faded into obscurity as I got older. Seeing them making a comeback feels oh so satisfying, especially with how much Sakurai clearly loves these characters and their world. Im also really happy with how fun Terry is too use, he ended up being my secondary main alongside joker.

Byleth: I'm gonna have to play as her to make any final judgement but I REALLY like what I see so far, the alts look sexy, the stage looks incredible and i loved the original game, I'm really looking forward to it. Shame my favorite characters Leonie and Bernie aren't here.

Overall? It heavily appeals to my interest and I'm more than satisfied with I got. Season 2 could be complete garbage but I would still be satisfied

 

[evacino]

Hey guys, I've finally decided to make an account here after lurking around these parts since the Smash for Wii U/3DS days. I guess I thought now was as good a time as any to join in, now that it's been revealed that the second Fighter's Pass will be giving us a another whole 2 years worth of speculation!

I definitely didn't expect Byleth to be revealed today (I really thought that it was going to be all third-party characters)! As far as first-party character choices go, I think Byleth deserved it with Three Houses becoming the huge success that it has been both critically and commercially. The whole having a sword-whip thing as the main weapon also naturally lends itself to them having good moveset potential. That said, surely there was absolutely no way that Nintendo couldn't have anticipated the backlash following their reveal, considering the precedent set by the previous characters. Yes, while we were never given any indication for what sort of characters we would be getting, I still feel that the pre-release statements leading up to the to the final character made it seem like it wasn't going to be from a franchise already present in Smash Bros. I have no issue with that personally; I like Byleth and am excited to play as them, but I can see why some people would be disappointed or have at least expected otherwise.

As far as characters for the next pass go, didn't Sakurai say this video presentation was recorded in November (unless I just made that up somehow)? Because the Banjo & Kazooie presentation was recorded 2 days after Hero's, which was posted in July. Do you think it's possible that during this time frame the next batch of characters were still being discussed? If so, I wonder if discussions and/or reception on certain characters around then would influence future DLC? E.g., Sans might have gotten better reception than expected, maybe making the team consider more Undetale representation (even if it is just more Mii Costumes)? Granted though, the Cuphead costume was probably more the extension of this thought rather than it leading them into going back to previous franchises (assuming that Cuphead's costume was made following Sans's, and not decided on at the same time). That, and I'm sure there is still loads of stuff they can still use from the results of Smash Ballot if they wanted.

 

[SKX31]

So now that we all know the characters of our first pass. How would you rate it and the characters?

Overall: 10 / 10 I will preorder FP2 just as I've done for FP1. I trust Sakurai and Sora Ltd that much regardless of the characters.

As for individual characters:

: 8 / 10
: First 6 / 10, then 9.5 / 10 once released
: 8.5 / 10
: First 6 / 10, then 8.5 / 10 once released
:Byleth:: 7.5 / 10 so far. Might raise since Byleth looks pretty promising as a heavyweight zoner and could still have insane stuff like Hero and Terry.

 

[YoshiandToad]

So now that we all know the characters of our first pass. How would you rate it and the characters?

: 4/10
: 6/10
: 7/10
: 7/10
Byleth: 9.5/10

Byleth's the first must buy for me with Terry and Banjo teetering on the purchase line if I have any spare dough left over at the end of the month. Three Houses was easily my GotY last year so Byleth's a win but I'm kinda glad I didn't jump into buying the pass before seeing the goods.

Funny that the protagonist that starred in the game where weapon triangles isn't a thing is the one to get the axe and lance. Between her/him and Robin and Corrin (mostly) every weapon type in the series is accounted for which is neat.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I KNEW that if we get 3H rep, it would be them.

Cutie Gwen if it's the main character, then they have to go for them.

Like I said a few hours ago, I'll gladly hold that L, even if Sakurai implied that's not an actual rule

 

[Sean²]

Aside from the poor reception to this character getting in... what do people think about the moveset?
Looks very generic to me

Looks very derivative from existing characters with slight changes. Down B is like Hatchet Man without RNG requirements. Up B is like Joker's tether with a spike added onto it. I have no issue with deriving ideas from other characters (80 characters, not everything can be highly original), I just took notice of it.

Also, finally, a Fire Emblem character without a down B counter....but moves as slowly as the other FE character without a down B counter. Yay, another slow character. I liked the sword, reminded me of Ivy's whip in Soulcalibur. TBH not really impressed with the character overall. Some stuff seemed cool, but a lot was very meh.

 

[zeldasmash]

Overall thoughts on DLC:

: 5/10. Probably the most nothing character of the DLC so far. Least favorite overall.
: 9/10. I may not be a fan of Joker's playstyle but his surprise inclusion and some of the best fanservice in the game alone keeps him here. Remains the most surprising DLC character of pack 1 and the best surprise of the DLC period so far.
: 8/10. My second favorite DLC fighter in terms of playstyle. Hero is a lot of fun.
: 8/10. The most fanservice DLC and for obvious reasons. Like Joker, not super fond of his playstyle, but I'm just happy he's here.
: 9.5/10. My favorite DLC character. Everything about Terry is just awesome.

Byleth: 7/10. I like Byleth, I think they be interesting, but they were a disappointing finale to the first fighter pass, especially coming right after Terry.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

So now that we all know the characters of our first pass. How would you rate it and the characters?

I'm going to rate the whole pass (so including a small comment on stages and music selection).

Joker: For me the pass start with a bang, a huge surprise and the protagonist of one of my favorite game of the generation. I love Persona 5 style, loved the stage and the music selection. I just wished his moveset could be a little more spicy, like him using more persona than Arsene (or just Arsene doing more than following him and boosting his attack). But overall a very solid start for the pass.

Hero: I'm not the biggest Dragon quest fan, but it's a franchise I respect a lot and I also loved Dragon quest 11. Just like Joker, I didn't expect it to happen (well I expect Erdrick, but not 4 different hero). The special are very fun to use andplaying Hero is probably the most I've had with Ultimate. I just wish his neutral move would be more special. Also the stage is probably my favorite of the pass, it's really gorgeous. The only downside is the music selection, which is pretty boring and don't fit that much Smash bros in my opinion.

Banjo: I understand why people love him but for me I'm not a big fan. I've never played his game, so I don't have any nostalgia to him and he's probably not getting another game so it would be hard for me to play one. His moveset it's pretty bland, and his stage is alright at best. The best thing about his pack is without a doubt the music selection, he came with some of the best remixes of the game and they brought back Grant Khirkope so that was nice.

Terry: Just like with Banjo, I've never played Fatal fury or Kings of fighters and I don't really want to because I'm not a huge fan of traditional fighting game but Terry looks cool. His moveset his really fun with a lot of new mechanics (the 2 side special, super special moves, command input). His stage is also very gorgeous and bring a very original mechanic. His music selection his very hufe, but for some reason I didn't find it like mind blowing, not bad but not Banjo or Persona level.

Byleth: Gameplay wise he looks like a lot of fun, although I wished we got another franchise than fire emblem. The stage looks pretty fun and gorgeous (it's so weird to see Garreg mach with good textures!). The track selection looks pretty good, although I'm surprised there's only 2 remixes considering it's Nintendo own franchise I was expecting more. But I enjoy a lot Three houses and I'm glad it get some representation.

So from personal favorite to least favorite my ranking would be:
1. Hero
2. Joker
3. Byleth
4. Terry
5. Banjo

 

[KarneraMythos]

Look at that ear-to-ear smile! He knows what he did!

 

[Animegamingnerd]

I do wanna say Dante is pretty likely for Season 2 despite not being FP5. He just seems like the kind of character who would eventually make it in.

Also with it being six characters, I can see a good portion of that list being more niche/lesser known characters too. I can't see all of Wave 2 being nothing but purely big names, after all.

Well in a way all Season 1's characters were from niche genres or franchises to some extent.
DQ is the definition of mainstream in Japan, but only has a cult following in the west
SNK in general is a niche unless your in Latin America or China.
Banjo hasn't been relevant in over a decade before his Smash inclusion.
Persona and Fire Emblem have only just hit or maybe 1 more entry away from hitting the mainstream.

But I do agree that Dante has a decent shot for Season 2 and I think Travis Touchdown does as well.

 

[Nesysli]

Outside of my Banjo bias, I think Hero & Terry are the best DLC characters out of 4 & Ultimate so far. Hero with 4 unique skins and a balls to the wall moveset (plus he's a freaking Akira Toriyama's creation!) and Terry with his insane Go! meter and awesome combos & set ups. Plus he comes with a football field for a stage which is just awesome. I'm glad Joker is in because it introduced me to his masterpiece game but his play style does nothing for me. PP was free. Can't wait to play as Byleth but I can't accurately judge them until I play them, no matter how much gameplay I see.

 

[Deleted member]

So now that we all know the characters of our first pass. How would you rate it and the characters?

Joker 10/10: I enjoyed P5 a lot and felt his stage is phenomenal, the tracks affecting the colors is a nice touch and the cameos are great. Music is fantastic and I'm glad they brought tracks from P3 and P4, wish they added spirits from the protagonists of P3 and P4 at least. (Let's be honest they weren't going to reference the first 3 games)

Hero 10/10: like playing with them and love all the stuff they bring with them, especially the alts. Like the scale of his stage and the cameos from classic monsters, it surprises me how its the first time we get a mimic type item in the form of a carnibox. Classic mode is great and nostalgic. Only downside is that Hero could use a bit more songs though.

Banjo 6/10: don't really care for the character, but feels that while a few things are outstanding like music, standard like the moveset being solid but kinda unremarkable, other areas got a bit of slack like the classic mode being generic, or weird decisions like rotating stage

Terry 9/10: lots of great tracks, interesting cameos and stage, only a 9 due to my little knowledge on KoF.

Byleth 8/10: like the alts, tracks and stage, would have preferred a house leader but I like how they implemented the weapons of the house leaders.

Overall 9/10: Glad I bought it due to the content being great and hope next one is a s good.

At this point it's just better to ignore both Sabi and Vergeben since they're not reliable anymore.

Verge actually leaked the Mii costumes just a bit before their reveal iirc.

I would say if you don't want to pay attention to leakers just let them be.

 

[Thermithral]

5/10 Had no idea who this character is, and still really don't. His play-style feels,strange to me, but still interesting. Hate the invincible recovery though.
8/10 I have not played his game but I like RPGs and another magic sword hybrid character was a good choice. His down special is fun to play with casually too.
5/10 Don't really care about the character, but in terms of game play he is fun enough for me to occasionally play as. Some of his moves feel off, especially the down B.
2/10 I don't play fighting games outside of Smash, so I could not care less. During the direct he had a lot of moves that made me think, oh good, I will be seeing this character online for a long time. I don't really play as him unless I select Random.
Byleth 9/10 Three House is a masterpiece and I like basically every character in it, so I was happy to see them. And, the weapon triangle is finally in Smash in some form. Haven't played them yet obviously, but I think he will be really fun as a secondary. Risk reward works for me.

 

[Schnee117]

DLC rankings

- 9/10
Honestly not really that many complaints aside from a few music tracks not making it. He's fun, Mementos aesthetic is great and they went above and beyond with the P3 and 4 music affecting it.

- 2/10
Really not fun to use at all, music is complete dog**** and the stage is really uninteresting.

- 4/10
Just mid all around, Spiral Mountain is boring and the spinning hurts.

- 10/10
They went above and beyond all around. Loads of great cameos, a ton of music, a really neat stage and super fun to use.

- 5/10
Three Houses content is great but the stage really badly needs a touch up before launch and I'd have liked more music. Can't comment on using them but I'd have preferred literally any of the House Leaders themselves. Not a fan of the moveset based on the presentation either so they're not even a function I like the look of. Niosi got ****ed though lmao

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Look at that ear-to-ear smile! He knows what he did!
View attachment 258129

"yeah I did it. Ill ****ing do it again"

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I just noticed that male and female Byleth have different idle stances..that's interesting to me, since she is just an alternate costume and, correct me if I'm wrong, every alt character/gender costume has still kept the same idle stances.

Looking at the footage again, it looks like you might actually be right! She seems to hold her arm lower than the male variant, and raise it again when she does any of her idle poses. I thought it was just them being out of sync but to my knowledge male Byleth never actually lowered his arm like the female variant. I wonder if that means small changes are going to start being allowed so long as they don't change any hitboxes.

EDIT: If they do, I hope Bowser Jr. gets this treatment later on; The Koopalings kinda stop him from showing all of the facets of his personality.

 

[MooMew64]

Apparently the NY store didn't like the reveal:

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Dang, lol. People really got it out for FE.

 

[kirbsmash]

Looking at the footage again, it looks like you might actually be right! She seems to hold her arm lower than the male variant, and raise it again when she does any of her idle poses. I thought it was just them being out of sync but to my knowledge male Byleth never actually lowered his arm like the female variant. I wonder if that means small changes are going to start being allowed so long as they don't change any hitboxes.

You guys do know that Inking and Leaf exists, right..?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Looking at the footage again, it looks like you might actually be right! She seems to hold her arm lower than the male variant, and raise it again when she does any of her idle poses. I thought it was just them being out of sync but to my knowledge male Byleth never actually lowered his arm like the female variant. I wonder if that means small changes are going to start being allowed so long as they don't change any hitboxes.

I'm pretty sure it's because they have different body builds. Femleth is rather infamous for her bust size and if they kept the same animation then Femleth's hand would be absorbed by her cleavage

 

[Animegamingnerd]

So now that we all know the characters of our first pass. How would you rate it and the characters?

Joker 10 out of 10, Persona is my favorite franchise and he is my main.
Hero 8 out of 10, I am only a casual DQ fan, but I do have a lot with him.
Banjo 5 out of 10, this is just to having no attachment to the franchise and not really being a fan of his stage, but he is pretty fun
Terry 7 out of 10, no attachment here, but I enjoy him a bit more then Banjo and I love his stage gimmick that makes it easily the best new stage in Ultimate and wish it was something all walk offs should have.
Byleth 8 out of 10, Three Houses was GOTY and right behind BOTW for my second favorite game on Switch, so I am perfectly fine with him and he looks like a lot of fun. I just wish he had a better stage since I am not really that impress with it.