Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Rikarte]

Also on the other hand, Mega Man and Simon were also much more popular requested characters and also come from much bigger and influential series.

I'm sorry, but I kinda consider KOS-MOS, as well as Shantae and Reimu to be sort of the "Unholy trinity of Smash community bubble picks".

Uh, did I knock my head and woke up in some sort of alternate reality where KOS-MOS and Reimu are suddenly big, mainstream Smash requests?
Seriously, how are any of those two "Smash bubble picks"? That would imply that only Smash fans would care about their inclusions which couldn't be further from the truth.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Uh, did I knock my head and woke up in some sort of alternate reality where KOS-MOS and Reimu are suddenly big, mainstream Smash requests?
Seriously, how are any of those two "Smash bubble picks"? That would imply that only Smash fans would care about their inclusions which couldn't be further from the truth.

"I haven't heard about them before Smash, must be some Smash bubble ****."

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Unpopular opinion: NOBODY is a Smash bubble pick. Why? Because the supporters have played the games of their most wanted and would love to see that character gain the spotlight and more exposure from those unfamiliar with the character.

Smash is the ultimate gaming crossover and honestly, who wouldn't want to be a part of that?

 

[Deleted member]

I love how a big part of the Smash fandom claims to be hardcore or huge Nintendo fans, but the moment you say Pauline has moveset potential many of them come out and unironically say that “Pauline only dances and gets kidnapped”, when the Mario vs DK series easily features enough material to give her a wonderful moveset through the Minis.

Not saying this in reference to anything from this thread right now, but just as an example of how the Smash fandom is dangerously closed minded.

 

[Curious Villager]

I love how a big part of the Smash fandom claims to be hardcore or huge Nintendo fans, but the moment you say Pauline has moveset potential many of them come out and unironically say that “Pauline only dances and gets kidnapped”, when the Mario vs DK series easily features enough material to give her a wonderful moveset through the Minis.

Not saying this in reference to anything from this thread right now, but just as an example of how the Smash fandom is dangerously closed minded.

I mean, this is the same community that wrote off Rosalina as "Space Peach" and Bowser jr as a "mini Bowser clone".

Its kind of a given that most people only tend to look at characters their not interested in from a surface level I suppose...

 

[andree123]

Actually, I have an idea. Name any spirits you want to see promoted, the rules are 1 per franchise with playable characters and only 5 from franchises without characters

Mario: Geno
DK: Dixie Kong
Zelda: Minda
Metroid: Kraid
Yoshi: Poochy
Kirby: (Bandanna) Waddle Dee
Star Fox: Krystal
Pokemon: Meowth
Earthbound: Ninten
F-zero: Black Shadow
FE: Hector
KI: Medusa
Wario: Ashley
Punch-out: King Hippo
Xenoblade: Rex
Splatoon: Octoling
Sonic: Shadow
Street Fighter: Zangief
Bayonetta: Jeanne
Castlevania: Alucard

Isaac
Excitebiker
Chorus Kids
Rayman
Spring Man

 

[Opossum]

I mean, this is the same community that wrote off Rosalina as "Space Peach" and Bowser jr as a "mini Bowser clone".

Its kind of a given that most people only tend to look at characters their not interested in from a surface level I suppose...

Shout out to Smash 4 speculation where some people tried to "prove" Rosalina would be a clone before her reveal by showing a Brawl model swap of Peach that pulled out Warp Stars instead of Turnips.

 

[Deleted member]

So yeah, to put an end on the whole Pauline topic I will just share my good old Google Document on which I showcase the way I imagine her working:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-4nRKjK8clekvVX-O5GvGeBFVWd0KizlUrCyRW6Xw5Q

I made this some months ago as a suggestion from amazonevan19 , who already made a document fro Catrielle Layton (and a really great one at that).

 

[Cosmic77]

TBH if we did get Pauline, I'd love seeing her with Smash attacks and tilts involving dancing or swinging a mic stand. That feels more suiting for her than something involving Minis.

 

[Deleted member]

TBH if we did get Pauline, I'd love seeing her with Smash attacks and tilts involving dancing or swinging a mic stand. That feels more suiting for her than something involving Minis.

I would love to make her Smash attacks involve the items from the DK arcade too.

Her bag for example would be an easy side smash.

 

[Iridium]

I'm sure it's possible to see Smash fans can also be huge fans of other franchises while wanting those characters in Smash at the same time. I don't like the term "Smash bubble" because it doesn't really apply to a majority of the community when there's more to appeal for characters than just wanting them in Smash.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

I still think "Smash Bubble" is an accurate term for the people who only look at characters through the lens of the handful of forums that regularly discuss Smash and its speculation, and fail to understand the issues with basing their entire conclusions and view of Smash on those incredibly limited sources of discussion and information. It's completely fair to point out that some characters may be under or over represented in those communities compared to the averages we would see in an actual Smash population.

Not to mention, this is also traditionally where we see people fail to put their money where their mouth is and that also further demonstrates how the bubble can echo certain sentiments/complaints/critiques, but completely fail to realize them in any practical way or on a scale that will have some pronounced impact. I think Pokemon Sword/Shield are in a very similar situation, though with entirely different issues on the table.

There's nothing wrong with a character being over-represented in said groups... but I do wish people would recognize that increasingly niche character options are going to be most represented in places where other niche fans have found a place to discuss Smash ad-naseum to begin with and that can skew the understanding of the community.

 

[BZocky]

What is the consensus on Dr. Dry Bowser making it in Smash?

View attachment 254607

Shouldn't he be 'Dry Dr. Bowser'? Has he been a separate entity this whole time?
Deepest lore.

 

[CureParfait]

Also on the other hand, Mega Man and Simon were also much more popular requested characters and also come from much bigger and influential series.

I'm sorry, but I kinda consider KOS-MOS, as well as Shantae and Reimu to be sort of the "Unholy trinity of Smash community bubble picks".

I don't think those three are even Smash bubble picks. I rarely hear those three compared to like Doomguy and Geno.

 

[DarthEnderX]

That's not very nice.

Neither were those roster choices.

Uh, did I knock my head and woke up in some sort of alternate reality where KOS-MOS and Reimu are suddenly big, mainstream Smash requests?

No. Just, like, 4 people that are really insistent.

What is the consensus on Dr. Dry Bowser making it in Smash?

Dr. Dry Bowser shoulda been named Dr. Frankenbowser...

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

What is the consensus on Dr. Dry Bowser making it in Smash?

View attachment 254607

He's slower, but more powerful, throws pills instead of breathing fire, his Up Special is more powerful, but doesn't go as high, his Side Special is Koopa Klaw, and instead of a stall and fall, his Down Aerial is a foot stomp like Ganondorf. He's also much more serious for some reason, and one of his victory animations is just him staring at you. Menacingly.

tldr; He's Bowser, but not viable.

I love how a big part of the Smash fandom claims to be hardcore or huge Nintendo fans, but the moment you say Pauline has moveset potential many of them come out and unironically say that “Pauline only dances and gets kidnapped”, when the Mario vs DK series easily features enough material to give her a wonderful moveset through the Minis.

I think it would be weird if she started pulling out little clockwork Marios. Like, I know they're good friends 'n all but it still gives off stalkery vibes. Perhaps they could give her little Paulines instead. That'd be pretty cute honestly.

 

[Garteam]

Mega Man 10 was out in 2010, which was 2 years before Smash 4 started development and CastleVania had the same **** with Lords of Shadow 2 being 2 years before Ultimate's development 2 years doesn't mean dead

Dead might be a strong word, but you'd be pretty hard pressed to call Mega Man in good condition during Smash for's development after a bevy of games got cancelled. Same story for Castlevania, the series has basically gone the way of the dodo with the exception of a handful of rereleases and the Netflix in the post Lords of Shadow world.

Like I said however, Capcom and Konami at least had a vested interest in keeping these franchises semi-relevant through frequent rereleases as they figure out what the hell to do. Same can't be said about Xenosaga.

 

[Will]

Dead might be a strong word, but you'd be pretty hard pressed to call Mega Man in good condition during Smash for's development after a bevy of games got cancelled. Same story for Castlevania, the series has basically gone the way of the dodo with the exception of a handful of rereleases and the Netflix in the post Lords of Shadow world.

Like I said however, Capcom and Konami at least had a vested interest in keeping these franchises semi-relevant through frequent rereleases as they figure out what the hell to do. Same can't be said about Xenosaga.

are we really glossing over banjo in this debate or am i missing something

 

[Cutie Gwen]

"We asked SNK for another 100 songs, but this time, they said they were only willing to give us two. Please Understand."

Then they announce that one of the songs is Krauser's theme, though Mozart is creditted for composing the original for some reason

 

[StarBot]

Smash is the ultimate gaming crossover and honestly, who wouldn't want to be a part of that?

According according to in some book he written awhile ago, a small percentage people apparently

 

[Rie Sonomura]

According according to in some book he written awhile ago, a small percentage people apparently

those people, who are not video game characters, are outliers and should not be counted

 

[Deleted member]

I honestly can’t choose any character to cut in Smash.

No matter how hard I try to choose anyone to cut, I keep having this thought in my mind of not doing so.

cut me
and by me i mean mii

 

[Deleted member]

cut me
and by me i mean mii

Which Mii doh?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Dead might be a strong word, but you'd be pretty hard pressed to call Mega Man in good condition during Smash for's development after a bevy of games got cancelled. Same story for Castlevania, the series has basically gone the way of the dodo with the exception of a handful of rereleases and the Netflix in the post Lords of Shadow world.

Like I said however, Capcom and Konami at least had a vested interest in keeping these franchises semi-relevant through frequent rereleases as they figure out what the hell to do. Same can't be said about Xenosaga.

I'm not sure if you're aware of this, but a franchise having a rough period is very different from being outright dead. Especially considering how game development can take about 2-3 years of development these days

 

[StarBot]

I rarely hear those three compared to like Doomguy

Is it fair to call Doomguy, the Smash's community "one of next big 3 1/2?"

Anyways, I just kinda funny Doomguy became the community next darling, literally right after DOOM (2016) got ported to the Nintendo Switch

so after the game plan was finished lmao

 

[Deleted member]

Megaman was such a huge reveal, that if he didn’t get revealed for Smash 4 I would likely not be here or even on the internet at all right now.

Or at least in the way you know it.

So I can honestly say Megaman getting added did impact people outside the world of videogames.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Megaman was such a huge reveal, that if he didn’t get revealed for Smash 4 I would likely not be here or even on the internet at all right now.

The same with me but with

 

[EricTheGamerman]

I still find the people trying to put KOS-MOS to bed a little premature. Xenosaga was always in a terrible, terrible position for any future and this was a pretty likely result. A shame that they can't see any viability in remastering it, but a likely reality all the same. But people want to put KOS-MOS in the ground with it, when she's been fairly independent of the series for some years as she's continued to appear in crossovers and keep her own legacy a bit more alive than her home series. That alone should demonstrate that KOS-MOS shouldn't be terribly effected by Harada's comments. Monolith Soft is still almost certainly going to champion her and she's one of the few characters that could totally work as "Individual DLC" without the red carpet treatment since she as the character has been her own legacy.

 

[CureParfait]

Megaman was such a huge reveal, that if he didn’t get revealed for Smash 4 I would likely not be here or even on the internet at all right now.

Honestly I feel the same or well at least would not be here if wasn't revealed for Ultimate.

 

[Deleted member]

Honestly I feel the same or well at least would not be here if wasn't revealed for Ultimate.

Joker was another great reveal too, ngl.

 

[Garteam]

are we really glossing over banjo in this debate or am i missing something

Call me Microsoft, because I forgot about Banjo

That is a good point, if Microsoft was really willing to bring Banjo to Smash despite having absolutely zero plans for the franchise ever since Nuts and Bolts put the series back in the ground a decade ago, there's nothing to say Namco couldn't do the same with KOS-MOS. Obviously, being from a series that is getting frequent, contemporary entries is a benefit, but it's nowhere near the death sentence that people believe it is.

I'm not sure if you're aware of this, but a franchise having a rough period is very different from being outright dead. Especially considering how game development can take about 2-3 years of development these days

Like I said, dead might be a strong word, but I still stand by the point I originally made: If Mega Man and Castlevania were able to get into Smash when their franchises were struggling and their futures were iffy, there's nothing saying Xenosaga couldn't do the same.

Through frequent projects that would barely got off the ground before being cancelled (Mega Man Universe, Mega Man Legends 3, Maverick Hunter, etc.) and the whole "our top men are looking into this" thing, it was pretty clear that Capcom had no idea what to do with Mega Man between the release of 10 and 11.

Likewise, the radio silence regarding Castlevania after Lords of Shadow 2 underperformed both critically and commercially at the beginning of 2014 likely means Konami has the series on ice until they can get their bearings. They have no issue rereleasing the classic games, so there's likely some interest in the franchise still there, but it's far from in a healthy state. Perhaps there is some big, return-to-form Castlevania that's far along in development and will probably reach an actual release, but there's really nothing to suggest that.

Obviously, the difference is Capcom and Konami were interested in bringing those series back in some form, which doesn't seem to be the case with Namco and Xenosaga. However, that doesn't mean that KOS-MOS is automatically deconfirmed like much of the thread thought upon initially reading the news. Smash isn't a glorified billboard made to advertise whatever a company wants, characters without any modern releases can still join the battle.

 

[Deleted member]

Is it fair to call Doomguy, the Smash's community "one of next big 3 1/2?"

Anyways, I just kinda funny Doomguy became the community next darling, literally right after DOOM (2016) got ported to the Nintendo Switch

so after the game plan was finished lmao

That's honestly the really weird part of him. He just got a Switch port and now everyone is putting him on a Geno-level of hype. Dear me.

Anyway, heard about that Harada tweet. Everyone's pessimistic, I know, but still.

FP5 has to be female. God help me now.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

I know DOOM is hugely influential on gaming and specifically FPS titles.... but on a personal level I cannot fathom the idea of putting Doom Slayer before Chief when Microsoft is already at the table as a very willing partner. Not that Doom Slayer would be a bad choice, but my god is Master Chief in Smash the kind of next level thing that would fundamentally shake Smash yet again (and do I ever adore Halo lol).

 

[Rie Sonomura]

If we were to get a Bethesda rep I feel it'd realistically sooner be Dovahkiin. Skyrim was a Switch launch title and it's insanely popular around the world, EVEN IN JAPAN. or no, ESPECIALLY IN JAPAN - it's one of the few Western games with an EXCELLENT score in Famitsu. plus, it's not just a game but a practical cultural phenomenon (memes, references in other pop culture media etc)

tbh i would PREFER it be Vault Boy cause Fallout is the **** but beggars can't be choosers

 

[Deleted member]

I know DOOM is hugely influential on gaming and specifically FPS titles.... but on a personal level I cannot fathom the idea of putting Doom Slayer before Chief when Microsoft is already at the table as a very willing partner. Not that Doom Slayer would be a bad choice, but my god is Master Chief in Smash the kind of next level thing that would fundamentally shake Smash yet again (and do I ever adore Halo lol).

Nintendo probably has to talk with Bethesda over him (to which we do not know how they would respond), but Microsoft is more willing. Also, Chief has the bigger influence, even in Japan. Hell, I watched that vudeo wherein the Japanese talked about Doomguy and everyone was like, who? And all of them answered that Chief would be more logical in their opinion. Plus, Microsoft got BK so...yeah. He's easier to negotiate for.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

If we were to get a Bethesda rep I feel it'd realistically sooner be Dovahkiin. Skyrim was a Switch launch title and it's insanely popular around the world, EVEN IN JAPAN. or no, ESPECIALLY IN JAPAN - it's one of the few Western games with an EXCELLENT score in Famitsu. plus, it's not just a game but a practical cultural phenomenon (memes, references in other pop culture media etc)

tbh i would PREFER it be Vault Boy cause Fallout is the **** but beggars can't be choosers

It pains me to admit you're right on Dovahkiin... I just don't find Skyrim that interesting of a choice to be in Smash, especially since I think Skyrim has aged really poorly too across its multiple re-releases. Vault Boy would be the absolute best case scenario for a Bethesda rep in my eyes though. You could play so much with his style alone that would make him amazing (plus I can pretend he's based off of Fallout New Vegas and not 3 or 4... I don't particularly love Bethesda's in house RPGs...).



Also, unrelated, but today officially marks 50 days since Terry was released, and also 50 days since the last piece of major Smash news was given to the public. For reference, out last radio silence moment in the Smash DLC cycle was the period after Joker's release and that was 55 days, so we're coming right up on the longest period without Smash news since the reveal of Smash Switch to Ultimate's reveal. Which is kind of crazy. I'm still surprised they left another gap this big in the announcement scene. And since we can assume another week of holidays is probably going to interfere with any announcements, we're almost certainly going to pass the Joker to E3 dead period in terms of length.

 

[Deleted member]

Which Mii doh?

yes

 

[TheAJJohnson]

Neither were those roster choices.

No. Just, like, 4 people that are really insistent.

Dr. Dry Bowser shoulda been named Dr. Frankenbowser...

LOL...your comments dude...

 

[Deleted member]

yes

Ok, I’ll go with the Yes Mii.

 

[Deleted member]

Also, unrelated, but today officially marks 50 days since Terry was released, and also 50 days since the last piece of major Smash news was given to the public. For reference, out last radio silence moment in the Smash DLC cycle was the period after Joker's release and that was 55 days, so we're coming right up on the longest period without Smash news since the reveal of Smash Switch to Ultimate's reveal. Which is kind of crazy. I'm still surprised they left another gap this big in the announcement scene. And since we can assume another week of holidays is probably going to interfere with any announcements, we're almost certainly going to pass the Joker to E3 dead period in terms of length

At least during pre-E3, you got the Hero talks and the BK VS Steve wars. At least there you had info to work with. But here, it's basically a dead zone.

At this point we'd sooner get a REALLy credible leak that would make Verge quake in fear.