Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[StellerRJay]

hey guys just got the letter in the mail. I'm fighter 5. packing my bags right now

Rick the Hamster? I'd actually really love that. Maybe Rick, Kine, and Coo as a trio just like in "Kirby Star Allies". Sounds fun~

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Monokuma would be pretty damn sweet. All his content would be toptoeing on the edge of spoilerville, though.

I like to think his reveal trailer would be everybody finding Mario and Megaman's remains after Ridley's trailer, and a class trial is held

lol Sakurai doesnt care about spoilers

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Oh my god I ****ing hate Rowan so goddamn much. Like seething rage.

But he has so much moveset potential!
He has light magic!
He can hit you with the Fire Emblem!
He can heal his allies!
He can scream "I crave a challenge!"
And best of all, when he gets KOed you get a glass of lemonade in real life!

If lemonade is too sour for you, then you can switch to Lianna and get a complimentary Barbie and the Diamond Castle playset! I didn't know they even made those any more!

 

[Flyboy]

I support Monokuma to an extent because I love Danganronpa but I can't lie, it would feel weird to see anything spoilery like the punishments being used against the Smash cast, considering the nature of the original games. Plus I mean I almost guarantee one of the best ways to incorporate him would involve giant first game and probably entire series spoilers. Still....super interesting idea. Plus the music and vibe would be stunning.

 

[wynn728]

why do we Smash fans have to be so ungrateful?

Smash is probably among the only the series where Nintendo actually listens to the fan feedback.

People are still waiting for their new F-Zeros and proper Paper Marios, while we're over here getting longtime fan demand character after longtime fan demand character, and yet y'all still complain about comparatively minor stuff like "tOo mAnY fIrE eMbLeMs" and "PiRaNhA pLaNt dOeSn'T dEsErvE a SpOt " and such

geez, guys, show some respect. Sakurai and his team have done so much for us.

I can see why we have a reputation for being among the worst gaming fanbases

How dare people not like every little thing in Smash Bros Ultimate. No criticism or negative opinion allowed.

Being grateful for every little thing doesn't make you a better fan.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I'm curious, what did the Ice Climbers do to you?

Had one game 30 years ago that sucked.

And then had the nerve to try and pass themselves off as Nintendo icons.

toad would cause precisely zero stir within the larger smash community and consumerbase as a whole
like, come on
it's toad

Toad is Toad. But CAPTAIN Toad? That's another story! And if you give half his alts to Toadette? Fuggetaboutit!

My point is that Toad is pretty much the "filler character" of Mario games, exemplified by the majority of the New series consisting of Mario, Luigi, Toad and... Toad. They're a character thrown in to fill a hole when no one else is "available". Toad is the "other" character you get to play in the main series games and no one likes that.

I would have agreed with you...before a Toad got his own spinoff series.

What’s this new spirit event about?

Giant-sized fighters?

DYNAMAX!

 

[Deleted member]

I would have agreed with you...before a Toad got his own spinoff series.

That's Captain Toad. You can sell "Captain Toad" as an exciting addition, not "generic stand-in for an unique character that your friends have to use that's worse than Mario Kart DS's download play multiplayer"

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

That's Captain Toad. You can sell "Captain Toad" as an exciting addition, not "generic stand-in for an unique character that your friends have to use that's worse than Mario Kart DS's download play multiplayer"

Hey! I like the Toads! They're my favorite Mushroom Kingdom mook, and I always love seeing them. Unless it's Paper Mario. Then They're the most boring thing ever (along with Shy Guys).

ACKNOWLEDGE MY PERSONAL PREFERENCE AS THE ABSOLUTE TRUTH!

 

[Mushroomguy12]

How about Toad and Toadette as an Ice Climbers duo. That would certainly be pretty interesting in terms of a gimmick character, especially since Captain Toad can't jump, they could build that into the moveset by having them always throw each other up for recovery like the Ice Climbers.

 

[TheCJBrine]

That's Captain Toad. You can sell "Captain Toad" as an exciting addition, not "generic stand-in for an unique character that your friends have to use that's worse than Mario Kart DS's download play multiplayer"

But Toad is his own character too, like Yoshi, he’s just named after his species, and he has many fans too.

Although I don’t really expect him as DLC as much as I’d love his inclusion, tbh.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

How about Toad and Toadette as an Ice Climbers duo. That would certainly be pretty interesting in terms of a gimmick character, especially since Captain Toad can't jump, they could build that into the moveset by having them always throw each other up for recovery like the Ice Climbers.

tHEY EVE...They even have potential individually, as they could use power ups from the 2D series to enhance their capabilities, and lose said power ups if they take too much damage.

But Toad is his own character too, like Yoshi, he’s just named after his species, and he has many fans too.

I've been told this isn't actually the case in Japan, and that America just assumed that the default design was a specific character.

 

[TheAJJohnson]

why do we Smash fans have to be so ungrateful?

Smash is probably among the only the series where Nintendo actually listens to the fan feedback.

geez, guys, show some respect. Sakurai and his team have done so much for us.

I can see why we have a reputation for being among the worst gaming fanbases

First, we can be as ungrateful or grateful as we want for a product we pay for. If a company creates a good/service, and we want it, we trade our money for it. If that good doesn't deliver on what we want or we want additional services/features, we have every right to voice that. If the company doesn't listen to our feedback, we can (and sometimes do) take our business elsewhere. It's one of the beautiful things about a free market economy.

Second, let's assume you're comment regarding Nintendo's attitude towards feedback was correct. A company with this kind of guiding philosophy - one that looks something like a middle finger - wouldn't last more than a decade, let alone 100 years. This viewpoint that corporations are big meany heads that poop on their customers is so silly. They make what we want and they very much are listening. It's literally how they stay in business.

Third, we don't owe any respect to anyone that gives us something we pay for. I think Sakurai is a wizard and I admire him deeply as a business man and game designer. I also appreciate what his team and Nintendo has managed to do for the franchise. But business is business. If I help you with your finances, providing your family with millions of dollars for retirement income (my profession), do I deserve your respect? You'd probably love me, but I don't owe me anything because I've already been paid. You could argue that he doesn't have to do all the work he does, especially on the DLC, and you're right. But would Ultimate be what it is without that level of commitment? It's that level of commitment that makes Smash a Game of the Year contender. And guess what? Millions of us paid up to $90 (USD) for it. And most of us will probably spend more on the other DLC characters.

I can appreciate your desire to encourage people in this community to not be toxic, angry Smash-folk. But your comment paints you as...supercilious. Feedback and criticism can accomplish great things. And you'd be amazed how venues like this can cause waves (if done properly, of course).

[

That's always been my issue with the plant.
Characters I don't like are... (generally) whatever, but they are at least characters.

No matter how 'unique' they may end up being, I wouldn't want to see Koopa Troopa, Octorok, OK Zoomer, or Klaptrap on the roster.
I already look at Mario Kart and go, "Why?" >_>

And just in case someone feels like calling me out on it, I actually do have similar feelings about generic Pokemon.

Amen and amen. I couldn't agree more. I think you articulated well what I've been trying to say so many times. Well done.

It's not that I'm unhappy about the inclusion of a unique moveset or a zany pick, it's the fact the it's literally just a cookie cutter bad guy. It's not even a real character. It's as much of a character as the fire flower or the weird yellow blocks with eyes. Nobody is playing Mario games thinking, "Geez...I just wish this game had the piranha plant as a bad guy. I really think it added a lot to the game." It's not even a character, but just an element in the world of Mario, a generic enemy that there are hundreds of.

You also address the elephant in the room: Pokemon could fall into this category, too. Here are my thoughts on all of them.

Pikachu and Charizard: both extremely popular and considered staples of the franchise (one being its mascot). Many people non-gamers know who they are, and pretty much all gamers do. Even though there are many of them, most people think of one of their species in particular: the ones that belong to Red/Ash.
Mewtwo: has all of the benefits of the named above but has the added benefit of being a legendary and the only one of its kind. Therefore, it is unique. Also, it was the antagonist of the first anime movie, so it's as central a character as the protagonist.
Lucario: maintained popularity through each game generation and had its own anime movie. I'd say it's close enough to being mascot-ish to warrant inclusion.
Greninja and Jigglypuff: popular during their generation, with a lot of screen time. I would say they both have enough personality to warrant their inclusion. However, I would argue that the latter has overstayed its welcome (only staying for traditional reasons) and the former could eventually become irrelevant.
Squirtle and Ivysaur: part of Red's party, so they get a pass. If Red had something as accursed as a Dunsparce, I'd say it would get a pass because it's part of his party and he's the player character.
Pichu and Incineroar: these ones are dumb and you could argue they shouldn't be here. Both of them are picks to represent a generation (kind of) and don't really carry the same umph as the others. Even then, the former makes me laugh when it walks slowly and is the mascot's baby form, while the latter does have a personality and relevance in the anime. They still have more of a place than the frickin plant enemy.

 

[TheCJBrine]

I’ve been told this isn't actually the case in Japan, and that America just assumed that the default design was a specific character.

Likely false; Nintendo’s official LINE account in Japan has a Green Toad bot named Kinopio-kun, and when you ask him about Kinopio, he says something like “oh, the guy with the red spots? He’s my friend!” The Super Mario-kun manga also has the main Toad as the captain of Peach’s royal guard, I think. Maybe some other stuff, too; idk. Plus, he is a star in SMB2, the spinoffs, and Wario’s Woods...maybe SM3DW as well, as the blue Toad is just called “Toad” but idk...

Actually, I’m pretty sure we’ve discussed this before, and it just seemed like he was his own character as well in the end...I swear, if Japan doesn’t treat him the same way the Western Nintendo does despite multiple things seeming to point out that they do, this should be easy to find on a wiki or something...

edit: Heck, I don’t know, found a page with someone saying most Japanese games treat them as generic except for SMRPG, though it’s not like the West doesn’t do the same in the games themselves thanks to the naming scheme, so eh, idk. Maybe he’s still like Yoshi, or something...

 

[Cadillac]

This is random, but how would you feel if we get an Okami rep but it's Sakuya and not Amaterasu?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

This is random, but how would you feel if we get an Okami rep but it's Sakuya and not Amaterasu?

Confused and probably sad.

 

[nessdeltarune00]

Apparently the creator of the cat leak finally owned up to it being fake?

If that is the case, the only reason that would warrant me cheering for KOS-MOS a LITTLE bit is now officially out the window (Because that leak being true would’ve meant Reimu and Ryu Hayabusa were next).

 

[GKMLTTSB]

Eh, if you want a unique Toad for Smash, there's always Toadsworth. >_>

This is random, but how would you feel if we get an Okami rep but it's Sakuya and not Amaterasu?

The perfect plan to somehow upset both Okami and Touhou fans in one go. >_>

 

[wynn728]

First, we can be as ungrateful or grateful as we want for a product we pay for. If a company creates a good/service, and we want it, we trade our money for it. If that good doesn't deliver on what we want or we want additional services/features, we have every right to voice that. If the company doesn't listen to our feedback, we can (and sometimes do) take our business elsewhere. It's one of the beautiful things about a free market economy.

Second, let's assume you're comment regarding Nintendo's attitude towards feedback was correct. A company with this kind of guiding philosophy - one that looks something like a middle finger - wouldn't last more than a decade, let alone 100 years. This viewpoint that corporations are big meany heads that poop on their customers is so silly. They make what we want and they very much are listening. It's literally how they stay in business.

Third, we don't owe any respect to anyone that gives us something we pay for. I think Sakurai is a wizard and I admire him deeply as a business man and game designer. I also appreciate what his team and Nintendo has managed to do for the franchise. But business is business. If I help you with your finances, providing your family with millions of dollars for retirement income (my profession), do I deserve your respect? You'd probably love me, but I don't owe me anything because I've already been paid. You could argue that he doesn't have to do all the work he does, especially on the DLC, and you're right. But would Ultimate be what it is without that level of commitment? It's that level of commitment that makes Smash a Game of the Year contender. And guess what? Millions of us paid up to $90 (USD) for it. And most of us will probably spend more on the other DLC characters.

I can appreciate your desire to encourage people in this community to not be toxic, angry Smash-folk. But your comment paints you as...supercilious. Feedback and criticism can accomplish great things. And you'd be amazed how venues like this can cause waves (if done properly, of course).

[

Amen and amen. I couldn't agree more. I think you articulated well what I've been trying to say so many times. Well done.

It's not that I'm unhappy about the inclusion of a unique moveset or a zany pick, it's the fact the it's literally just a cookie cutter bad guy. It's not even a real character. It's as much of a character as the fire flower or the weird yellow blocks with eyes. Nobody is playing Mario games thinking, "Geez...I just wish this game had the piranha plant as a bad guy. I really think it added a lot to the game." It's not even a character, but just an element in the world of Mario, a generic enemy that there are hundreds of.

You also address the elephant in the room: Pokemon could fall into this category, too. Here are my thoughts on all of them.

Pikachu and Charizard: both extremely popular and considered staples of the franchise (one being its mascot). Many people non-gamers know who they are, and pretty much all gamers do. Even though there are many of them, most people think of one of their species in particular: the ones that belong to Red/Ash.
Mewtwo: has all of the benefits of the named above but has the added benefit of being a legendary and the only one of its kind. Therefore, it is unique. Also, it was the antagonist of the first anime movie, so it's as central a character as the protagonist.
Lucario: maintained popularity through each game generation and had its own anime movie. I'd say it's close enough to being mascot-ish to warrant inclusion.
Greninja and Jigglypuff: popular during their generation, with a lot of screen time. I would say they both have enough personality to warrant their inclusion. However, I would argue that the latter has overstayed its welcome (only staying for traditional reasons) and the former could eventually become irrelevant.
Squirtle and Ivysaur: part of Red's party, so they get a pass. If Red had something as accursed as a Dunsparce, I'd say it would get a pass because it's part of his party and he's the player character.
Pichu and Incineroar: these ones are dumb and you could argue they shouldn't be here. Both of them are picks to represent a generation (kind of) and don't really carry the same umph as the others. Even then, the former makes me laugh when it walks slowly and is the mascot's baby form, while the latter does have a personality and relevance in the anime. They still have more of a place than the frickin plant enemy.

Beautiful

 

[CroonerMike]

Beautiful

You like this but it also goes against you In every thread you go in with your crying of “DEY NEVER LISTEN TO US”

 

[P.Kat]

This is random, but how would you feel if we get an Okami rep but it's Sakuya and not Amaterasu?

Very sad, and very confused. I'd probably think that I was trapped in the Matrix with such a glitch.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I feel like the bigger Super Smash Bros. gets, the less receptive people are to the lesser characters. If this was Melee I'd bet nobody would bat an eye at Piranha Plant.

 

[P.Kat]

I feel like the bigger Super Smash Bros. gets, the less receptive people are to the lesser characters. If this was Melee I'd bet nobody would bat an eye at Piranha Plant.

It was a bold choice to have Piranha Plant has a character for sure, and it's far from my favorite character (but not further than heavyweight characters), but I admire Sakurai's creativity for making such a character work in Smash.

 

[Wrathful_Scythe]

Apparently the creator of the cat leak finally owned up to it being fake?

If that is the case, the only reason that would warrant me cheering for KOS-MOS a LITTLE bit is now officially out the window (Because that leak being true would’ve meant Reimu and Ryu Hayabusa were next).

Yup, Dutonix cleared it up. The leak was dubious to begin with but hope can cloud ones vision.

Oh I made that post because I used to just post fake leaks/predictions on /v/ when I got bored (stopped doing that and probably won’t anymore after this fiasco). I would usually use images from other potential leaks (or guesses as I call them, smash “leakers” on /v/ are like monkeys on a typewriter) to make it more believable. This time I just downloaded the drunk cat image off of the 4chan archives and made a post about it later. I really did this because of the papageno coverage on it a few days before and thought “yeah might as well get it while it’s hot.” I was actually going to originally include Nightmare instead of Kos-Mos just because I like him more but someone I talked to in a discord kept saying that Kos-Mos would be in before Nightmare so I relent and decided to play with that idea here. I included Ryu because I think he’s inevitable at some point and Reimu because of personal bias. I haven’t really kept up with roster speculation and leak nonsense as of late so I thought that it’d deconfirm itself as of Game Awards but here we are. I think Kos Mos is pretty likely for TGA all things considered so I might as well do this now rather than wait later. No hard feelings.

 

[Goombaic]

I feel like the bigger Super Smash Bros. gets, the less receptive people are to the lesser characters. If this was Melee I'd bet nobody would bat an eye at Piranha Plant.

Jigglypuff is the postergirl for that. Even in the anime, Jigglypuff wasn't that much of a major character. Yeah, having the same skeleton as Kirby definitely helped, but the dev team still kept her when many people expected them not to. Now, even characters like Bandana Dee and I guess Pokemon now are lesser characters and too "bland."

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Jigglypuff is the postergirl for that. Even in the anime, Jigglypuff wasn't that much of a major character. Yeah, having the same skeleton as Kirby definitely helped, but the dev team still kept her when many people expected them not to. Now, even characters like Bandana Dee and I guess even Pokemon now are lesser characters and too "bland."

I think people's issue with Pokémon is similar to Fire Emblem's hatred in that there are 8 of them (10 in actuality). This and America doesn't like Incineroar in the slightest.

 

[cosmicB]

Where in the world did the monokuma talk come from

What rumor or leaker started this?

The only thing we'd have to go off of with Monokuma is that Sakurai is a huge fan of the franchise. But of course if that's all that was necessary, literally every main gaming character in existence would be a contender (people really underestimate just how many games Sakurai plays).

That said, I think there's a not awful chance of a Monokuma mii costume precisely for that reason, maybe even with a track attached.

 

[Deleted member]

Apparently the creator of the cat leak finally owned up to it being fake?

If that is the case, the only reason that would warrant me cheering for KOS-MOS a LITTLE bit is now officially out the window (Because that leak being true would’ve meant Reimu and Ryu Hayabusa were next).

Well that's a shame cause I'd really like for Reimu to get in but it was never the end all be all for chances so hopefully she'll get in regardless.

 

[SneakyLink]

Apparently the creator of the cat leak finally owned up to it being fake?

If that is the case, the only reason that would warrant me cheering for KOS-MOS a LITTLE bit is now officially out the window (Because that leak being true would’ve meant Reimu and Ryu Hayabusa were next).

Quick clarification: while a confession to making it was made, the evidence provided was easily manipulated and someone recreated the evidence within minutes. Nothing more concrete was provided.

Still leaning fake though...

 

[nessdeltarune00]

The only thing we'd have to go off of with Monokuma is that Sakurai is a huge fan of the franchise. But of course if that's all that was necessary, literally every main gaming character in existence would be a contender (people really underestimate just how many games Sakurai plays).

That said, I think there's a not awful chance of a Monokuma mii costume precisely for that reason, maybe even with a track attached.

I mean, its one thing for him to like a franchise, its another thing entirely for him to send Kodaka a congratulatory letter as well.

 

[perfectchaos83]

Quick clarification: while a confession to making it was made, the evidence provided was easily manipulated and someone recreated the evidence within minutes. Nothing more concrete was provided.

Still leaning fake though...

Like I said much earlier in the thread when you first spoke of it, it's not the evidence that had me convinced it was fake, it was who made it. Or Rather, the fact that a Reimu supporter claimed it, a character who has far more to lose with that leak being fake than either of the other two. (at this current point in time).

 

[SneakyLink]

Like I said much earlier in the thread when you first spoke of it, it's not the evidence that had me convinced it was fake, it was who made it. Or Rather, the fact that a Reimu supporter claimed it, a character who has far more to lose with that leak being fake than either of the other two. (at this current point in time).

I still believe the cat lost all of its lives.
That’s why at this point, I believe no leaks and automatically assume Otto Matic is next.
Because he’s guranteed to never be in, I am always surprised by the next reveal.

 

[Guynamednelson]

This and America doesn't like Incineroar in the slightest.

As much as I post anti-Incineroar stuff, I will admit I'm not the best representative of America's reception to Incineroar. They actually dislike Primarina more, for one thing.

 

[PSIGuy]

The cat leak (or rather, the 'copycat leak'_)never had a leg to stand on to begin with. Let's compare.

Cat leak: Around this time, Brave was in the game's coding. This leak;

• claimed it was for DQ Hero
• claimed Banjo was to be "codename Buddy"
• claimed both were to be announced at E3

Cat leak 2/copycat leak: Terry had been announced by now. This leak;

• claimed Kosmos was coming out in 2020
• claimed Ryu and Reimu were both in development to be announced after the pass ends
• did not mention any codenames, not even Terry's

Leak 1 had a clear expiration date and used specific insider info (codenames) that we could check and confirm.
Leak 2 has nothing but claims with very open expiration dates and doesn't even leak information in the same way. Leak 1 predicted a singular event and both codenames. Leak 2 is so different in style it wouldn't have gotten noticed if not for picture it obviously used to ape an actual leak, and the fact it pushed Kosmos who is the latest "well a vague leak says they're possible so I back them now" character after Doom Guy.

 

[Ben Holt]

We got ****ed out of cool archer owl in favor of wrestling tiger.
I remember people thinking Decidueye was a lock and mocking me for supporting Revali, as he was the "inferior" archer bird.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

We got ****ed out of cool archer owl in favor of wrestling tiger.
I remember people thinking Decidueye was a lock and mocking me for supporting Revali, as he was the "inferior" archer bird.

Ok but Revali's dungeon forced me to either find warm clothing on my blind playthrough or to go straight to Ganon so **** Revali

 

[HyruleHero]

We got ****ed out of cool archer owl in favor of wrestling tiger.
I remember people thinking Decidueye was a lock and mocking me for supporting Revali, as he was the "inferior" archer bird.

I mean Its perfectly fine to support Revali and he is one of the better Zelda choices but he is a single supporting character from one of 19 Zelda games. Decidueye is definitely a better pick with similar moveset potential (but a little cooler because of Ghost type moves).

 

[Thewafflemaker2000]

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here.

About what?

 

[RealLuigisWearPink]

Inciniroar is great though. Very good addition

 

[Guynamednelson]

If this was Melee I'd bet nobody would bat an eye at Piranha Plant.

Fake massive rosters from 2006 have things like generic enemies and more Pokemon/FE reps than Smash has now, so you're right.

 

[SKX31]

Fake massive rosters from 2006 have things like generic enemies and more Pokemon/FE reps than Smash has now, so you're right.

You reminded me of this legendary fake roster from ca. 2003:

I dunno how you top this one though. I mean, King Boo / LM Ghosts and the Moon / Giants?

11 / 5