Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[JustMyself13]

If you're implying that there was demand for Plant you're the revisionist here, I don't think even the staunchest of its defenders would back you up on this one.

There was demand for characters fitting those criteria, not a single character for all. The people who supporter those kinds of characters didn't necessarily support all of those at one. And wanting those kinds of characters still doesn't mean you want Piranha Plant.

That's like saying that because certain groups of people want 1. Solo female characters 2. First party characters 3. Grass-type starter Pokemon 4. Old characters then all of a sudden Bayleef is in demand.

I will defend the plant until the day I die, but I definitely agree with you. No one wanted Plant, and to me that’s what makes it such a good fighter. The characters that no one expect keep Smash so intriguing to me, for they usually act as tests of creativity and innovation in terms of moveset and character design. Seriously, Smash Bros is the only game where a potted plant with no arms or legs can have a fully unique and fun moveset, and I will always treasure that. There are things that Plant can do that can never fit onto another character, and for anyone to claim that Plant was a wasted slot due to not being one of the big names in speculation is really losing sight of what makes Smash so special.

 

[DarthEnderX]

What does bother me is how a few people legitimately want Mai to get in Smash as a character just because Sakurai said, "No" to a stage cameo.

Well, sorry, but I have a lot higher priority requests right now than "a second Fatal Fury character".

Hell, I need to see a Metal Slug character, a SamSho character and and AoF character just from SNK alone first.

Y'all, it's been over a year since piranha plant

is it really that hard to forgive and forget?

I haven't forgiven Ice Climbers yet. What hope does PP have?

it actually IS odd Mai didn’t even get a Spirit. They could have just given her Spirit the Camilla/Mythra treatment

And its not like you can rotate a Spirit around to look up it's skirt.

If people want to say Piranha Plant sticks out from the rest of the Mario cast like a sore thumb, then Geno wouldn't be much better, yet the latter is one of the most popular character requests.

Geno is an actual character, and not a generic mook.

How about reading the link I showed you, where Sakurai explicitly stated that Dragon Quest was highly requested for a long time. The truth matters more than the narrative you're trying to push.

While I agree in this instance, I do want to point out that just because Sakurai says something doesn't automatically make it true. He may be the game's creator, but he's also a corporate spokesperson.

Ok, I raise you this, who did plant “steal a slot” from?

There's no way to know, because that character is the one that didn't get in. But he definitely stole it from someone. And it's hard to imagine that someone being a worse pick.

It's true though. Sakurai still hasn't added Nester from Nester's Funky Bowling to smash yet.

Started as a comic character, not eligible for Smash!

He wanted to step back from “hero’s” and “villains” and it would be boring to keep going with that trend so they went outside that with a enemy (also most recognizable of the bunch)

How is an enemy not a villain?

I have a different Fire Emblem related question. If you were able to replace a Fire Emblem character on the roster with a 3 Houses rep, would you do it? And if yes, who would you replace and which 3 Houses character would you pick?

Never played 3H, but I'd replace any of the Marth clones with any 3H character that doesn't play like Marth. Probably Edlegard, cause FE needs a villain.

 

[Deleted member]

I keep forgetting that negativity is not allowed in Smash Boards, you can only say happy positive things. No, I'm criticizing what's been going on and how things are playing out. The more we keep trying to sweeping all the negativity under the rug means it's more likely to happen all over again. For a lot that Smash Bros Ultimate does right it does stuff wrong as well that should be address, and it hasn't done anything to make me think that things will be different. Geno isn't coming, many fan favorite characters are never going to make it in, not even in the post Fighters Pass. I made peace that many of these fan favorite characters from the ballot are never going to see the light of day, but it doesn't mean I need to grind my teeth and be excited for Ultimate's future while ignoring all the signs that point in what direction it's going which just so happens to be in same directions that I keep complaining about. I made peace with the present and past, but the future isn't going to be different.

very late but like
bruh
literally the only somewhat unpopular pick so far was plant and it's still beloved because believe it or not the wackiness of "yooo they put a piranha plant in smash bros that's wildin" actually outweighs "hey, they put isaac/toad/rex/firstpartycharacter.jpg in" somewhat, especially in the casual sphere. claiming that the direction ultimate dlc is going in is bad is nothing more than your opinion, and almost definitely one that the vast majority of consumers don't share.

also, wrt to "you can only say happy positive things"- this isn't a "HUH GUESS NEGATIVITY ISN'T ALLOWED HERE AMIRIGHT GUYS" situation, this is simply you spouting a very unpopular opinion and presenting it as an absolute statement while simultaneously getting pissy when people say why they think it's wrong. it ain't targeted anger at someone who has an issue with the dlc or ult as a whole.

 

[TheYungLink]

Part of me is like "if Edelgard or Dimitri get in, we could get Echo Fighters of them that reference older Fire Emblem games." Since Edelgard uses an axe, maybe Hector could be her echo, while since Dimitri uses a lance, we could maybe get an Ephraim echo. Edit: if not now, then in a future Smash game.

I haven't played 3H yet, so if that's unfeasible, let me know, but since so many Fire Emblem characters throughout the series use similar weapons, I think it could be cool to get more characters with unique weapons to get echoes of older FE characters that use those weapons too.

 

[Schnee117]

Part of me is like "if Edelgard or Dimitri get in, we could get Echo Fighters of them that reference older Fire Emblem games." Since Edelgard uses an axe, maybe Hector could be her echo, while since Dimitri uses a lance, we could maybe get an Ephraim echo. Edit: if not now, then in a future Smash game.

I haven't played 3H yet, so if that's unfeasible, let me know, but since so many Fire Emblem characters throughout the series use similar weapons, I think it could be cool to get more characters with unique weapons to get echoes of older FE characters that use those weapons too.

Nah the way Edelgard and Dimitri use their weapons is very different to how others use theirs on top of basic things they'd have like combat arts and battalions.

 

[Deleted member]

Part of me is like "if Edelgard or Dimitri get in, we could get Echo Fighters of them that reference older Fire Emblem games." Since Edelgard uses an axe, maybe Hector could be her echo, while since Dimitri uses a lance, we could maybe get an Ephraim echo. Edit: if not now, then in a future Smash game.

I haven't played 3H yet, so if that's unfeasible, let me know, but since so many Fire Emblem characters throughout the series use similar weapons, I think it could be cool to get more characters with unique weapons to get echoes of older FE characters that use those weapons too.

Depending on how much of specific stuff they put into each of them, that'd be hard. Dimitri isn't just a lance fighter, but a savage lance fighter, he needs aggressive attacks that are unrefined and just use brute strength. Edelgard depends on whether they'd use the Crest of Flames, Battalions and/or her specific Combat Arts but her fighting style is also relatively refined and precise for an axe fighter, saving big attacks for finishing blows(such as her crit animation), which is the exact opposite of what Hector is.
If it looks like Edelgard should have been a lance fighter and Dimitri an axe fighter based on their fighting styles, that's because that's sort of the point since they're subversions of the typical FE lord archetypes.

 

[Lady Kuki]

Smash fans who spent years complaining about Corrin because "it doesn't matter how unique they are, they still use a sword" annoy me to no end because we finally have 3 perfect FE candidates who all use anything but swords yet ya'll keep pushing the boring ass silent protagonist with blue hair and a sword because you think their whipsword would bring anything that Belmonts already don't and I'm sorry Brent but it going into the Z-axis changes jack **** in how they play especially when Belmonts already do that anyways.

I reeeally don't want Byleth, like I'd be fine with ANY of the three protags.

I think though, people don't exactly ask for Byleth because they want them. Some do, but I think a lot of people more or less have the belief that if we are getting a 3H rep in this game, it's going to be Byleth. Many people say it's because adding him won't add house bias, and while that's a fine thing to avoid, Pokemon had to deal with Sakurai picking Incineroar and Greninja over the other various starters. There's also the fact that having all 3 house leaders simply isn't feasible, for narrative and balance reasons leaving to many people suspecting that Byleth will be Sakurai's pick.

Honestly, I just hope Sakurai pulls another Robin over Chrom moment and adds a random house leader instead, because Byleth is boring personality and moveset wise. Buuut I also don't think a 3H rep is very likely to begin with, so I'm open to literally anyone, even the MU if that was really the only option we have.

 

[Guynamednelson]

outweighs "hey, they put isaac/toad/rex/firstpartycharacter.jpg in" somewhat, especially in the casual sphere

This argument would be more understandable if Toad wasn't just as recognizable to casuals as the plant.

 

[P.Kat]

I haven't forgiven Ice Climbers yet. What hope does PP have?

I'm curious, what did the Ice Climbers do to you?

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

How is an enemy not a villain?

It’s more like step back from “main characters of series” he thought that would get old/boring thus step back from “hero/villain”

So tried a non main character for the first vast majority is psoitive

 

[Deleted member]

This argument would be more understandable if Toad wasn't just as recognizable to casuals as the plant.

toad would cause precisely zero stir within the larger smash community and consumerbase as a whole
like, come on
it's toad
who tf would be excited for toad he's like the most cookie cutter mario character you could add
piranha plant caused a stir because it's wacky and weird as hell for a smash character
recognizability ≠ popularity and impact- otherwise we would've had "cod guy of the week" three of four times over

 

[Brindor]

You know on the topic of Fire Emblem 3H, I can never get over silly Claude looks on the cover


Look at that smug suave Deerboi, with his s*** eating grin and golden wand sticking straight out as though he whipped his python for the whole world to see.
It always gets me

 

[TheYungLink]

Nah the way Edelgard and Dimitri use their weapons is very different to how others use theirs on top of basic things they'd have like combat arts and battalions.

Depending on how much of specific stuff they put into each of them, that'd be hard. Dimitri isn't just a lance fighter, but a savage lance fighter, he needs aggressive attacks that are unrefined and just use brute strength. Edelgard depends on whether they'd use the Crest of Flames, Battalions and/or her specific Combat Arts but her fighting style is also relatively refined and precise for an axe fighter, saving big attacks for finishing blows(such as her crit animation), which is the exact opposite of what Hector is.
If it looks like Edelgard should have been a lance fighter and Dimitri an axe fighter based on their fighting styles, that's because that's sort of the point since they're subversions of the typical FE lord archetypes.

Ah, I see. Looks like if the two of them became playable, it'd be like how Robin is so tied to their depiction in Awakening that they can't realistically stand in for past mage units in older Fire Emblem games.

Thanks for letting me know, you two!

 

[Deleted member]

house bias be damned byleth is boring as **** and i would much rather have edie or dimitri
they're far more unique and also Actual Characters

 

[Deleted member]

toad would cause precisely zero stir within the larger smash community and consumerbase as a whole
like, come on
it's toad
who tf would be excited for toad he's like the most cookie cutter mario character you could add
piranha plant caused a stir because it's wacky and weird as hell for a smash character
recognizability ≠ popularity and impact- otherwise we would've had "cod guy of the week" three of four times over

Toad is one of those characters that can't stand on its own, they'd do a better job by adding Toadette and having Toad as a costume because at least saying "Toadette is playable" is marginally more exciting.

 

[TheYungLink]

Toad is one of those characters that can't stand on its own, they'd do a better job by adding Toadette and having Toad as a costume because at least saying "Toadette is playable" is marginally more exciting.

As someone who has wanted Toad since before Toadette existed, I actually agree. Toadette has also accomplished what Waluigi still hasn't, which is to become playable in a mainline Mario game (New Super Mario Bros. U Deluxe, Super Mario Maker 2) after initially only being a spin-off character.

That said, I do think Toad can stand on his own, but it specifically has to be Captain Toad. Even then Toadette can be his alt or Echo Fighter, or vice versa with Captain Toad being Toadette's Echo Fighter.

 

[Nethermoosen]

Toad is one of those characters that can't stand on its own, they'd do a better job by adding Toadette and having Toad as a costume because at least saying "Toadette is playable" is marginally more exciting.

I don’t know.... if they countered with Peach, though....? With a malicious grin?

I’m paying.

 

[Deleted member]

ephraim could never be a dimitri echo
how would they ever explain felix's voice calling him a boar in a vaguely sexual tone of voice every time he fills up the boar bar

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

I reeeally don't want Byleth, like I'd be fine with ANY of the three protags.

I think though, people don't exactly ask for Byleth because they want them. Some do, but I think a lot of people more or less have the belief that if we are getting a 3H rep in this game, it's going to be Byleth. Many people say it's because adding him won't add house bias, and while that's a fine thing to avoid, Pokemon had to deal with Sakurai picking Incineroar and Greninja over the other various starters. There's also the fact that having all 3 house leaders simply isn't feasible, for narrative and balance reasons leaving to many people suspecting that Byleth will be Sakurai's pick.

Honestly, I just hope Sakurai pulls another Robin over Chrom moment and adds a random house leader instead, because Byleth is boring personality and moveset wise. Buuut I also don't think a 3H rep is very likely to begin with, so I'm open to literally anyone, even the MU if that was really the only option we have.

I’m just hoping somehow Claude is our potential 3 Houses character despite all the odds being stacked against him.

I know we have Pit and Link as archers, but I’d like to see a moveset revolving completely around archery. Plus Wyverns are cool.

 

[Deleted member]

As someone who has wanted Toad since before Toadette existed, I actually agree. Toadette has also accomplished what Waluigi still hasn't, which is to become playable in a mainline Mario game (New Super Mario Bros. U Deluxe, Super Mario Maker 2) after initially only being a spin-off character.

Thay said, I do think Toad can stand on his own, but it specifically has to be Captain Toad. Even then Toadette can be his alt or Echo Fighter, or vice versa with Captain Toad being Toadette's Echo Fighter.

My point is that Toad is pretty much the "filler character" of Mario games, exemplified by the majority of the New series consisting of Mario, Luigi, Toad and... Toad. They're a character thrown in to fill a hole when no one else is "available". Toad is the "other" character you get to play in the main series games and no one likes that.
Which is a shame because their role in SMB2 could have expanded into making them a proper part of the main cast but Nintendo instead decided to make them a faceless character with the New series. The only modern game they really escape from that, I'd argue is SM3DW in which Toad has special characteristics like all other playable characters again, which again differentiate them from the rest of the cast and give them something to call their own.

EDIT:

ephraim could never be a dimitri echo
how would they ever explain felix's voice calling him a boar in a vaguely sexual tone of voice every time he fills up the boar bar

Dimitri has Boar Bar
Edelgard has Gay Gauge
Claude has Ending Racism Meter

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Moving to Canada although I already live in Canada.

Proud to have another fellow Canuck here on the boards!

 

[Deleted member]

Dimitri has Boar Bar
Edelgard has Gay Gauge
Claude has Ending Racism Meter

byleth has the dot dot dot dial
every time they say nothing until prompted it fills
when it reaches max everyone showers them with praise for clearing their skin, watering their crops, and fixing all of their issues by existing

 

[Lady Kuki]

You know on the topic of Fire Emblem 3H, I can never get over silly Claude looks on the cover


Look at that smug suave Deerboi, with his s*** eating grin and golden wand sticking straight out as though he whipped his python for the whole world to see.
It always gets me

Spoiler

That's why we love that idiot Can only imagine what dumb victory lines he'd have if he became an actual character in Smash.

I’m just hoping somehow Claude is our potential 3 Houses character despite all the odds being stacked against him.

I know we have Pit and Link as archers, but I’d like to see a moveset revolving completely around archery. Plus Wyverns are cool.

Yeah like, the odds are really stacked against him, but hey there have been far more surprising picks so we'll see how this one goes. Worse comes to worse, someone could mod him in Rivals... if I could find time, I could give it a shot but then there's MUGEN to consider too.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

What's with the Fire Emblem talk. Anything related to it happened in my absence?

 

[RandomAce]

Saying Byleth would function the same as the Belmonts because they both have whips is the same thing as saying that the sword wielders play the same because they have swords. They both have different distinct styles of using their whips.

I’m not sure how someone could defend Corrin but pull the same counterargument on Byleth is nothing short of hypocritical.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

Honestly I don't really understand the love for Edelgard. Sure, having a heavyweight female character would be cool, but I can't really understand the argument of the axe vs sword user. In my head when I imagine it, in the context of a 2d fighting game it doesn't make that big a difference. I think Byleth could bring could bring more originality with his whip-sword and the fact that use magic on top of that. Maybe he could also use battalion in some way or another.

 

[Guynamednelson]

They both have different distinct styles of using their whips.

Plus, the Belmont moveset was specifically designed with Castlevania-specific attention to detail, so it'd be weird for someone outside the franchise to be a direct copy of them.

 

[Deleted member]

Honestly I don't really understand the love for Edelgard. Sure, having a heavyweight female character would be cool, but I can't really understand the argument of the axe vs sword user. In my head when I imagine it, in the context of a 2d fighting game it doesn't make that big a difference. I think Byleth could bring could bring more originality with his whip-sword and the fact that use magic on top of that. Maybe he could also use battalion in some way or another.

i feel like edelgard has a lot of potential if they use her timeskip form specifically- that shield could bring a lot to a moveset if used properly, swapping between aymr and the sword of seiros for healing could be interesting, and she has a pretty decent pool of animations to pull from, as well as having the novelty of being a relatively small and quick heavyweight
i do think that byleth's time shenanigans could be super interesting to see though if it wasn't just a counter like it would almost definitely be

 

[Cosmic77]

Proud to have another fellow Canuck here on the boards!

What's with the Fire Emblem talk. Anything related to it happened in my absence?

I know it's not what you meant, but there's one minute between these posts. Made me laugh.

 

[Ura]

Proud to have another fellow Canuck here on the boards!

Ehh...to be fair there's a handful of us here on the boards though not quite as active.

Ivander Aetheri come to mind.

 

[TheCJBrine]

I like Toad. If Toad is playable, I think it should just be him with alts. of Toadette and Captain Toad.

It's a shame they made all the Toads look the same when they have a single Toad as the Toad, whom is still named Toad; similar to Yoshi, I guess. Imo, all of the other Toads should've had some sort-of differentiation, while Toad himself still keeps the current look with the red-spotted mushroom cap and the blue clothing.

Even despite him looking the same as his fellow Toads, though, I believe he can very well stand on his own. It's not like the mushroom boy doesn't already have a significant number of people who love him, and have even before Captain Toad made an appearance.

 

[Wunderwaft]

I like Toad. If Toad is playable, I think it should just be him with alts. of Toadette and Captain Toad.

It's a shame they made all the Toads look the same when they have a single Toad as the Toad, whom is still named Toad; similar to Yoshi, I guess. Imo, all of the other Toads should've had some sort-of differentiation, while Toad himself still keeps the current look with the red-spotted mushroom cap and the blue clothing.

Even despite him looking the same as his fellow Toads, though, I believe he can very well stand on his own. It's not like the mushroom boy doesn't already have a significant number of people who love him, and have even before Captain Toad made an appearance.

One day Toad will escape from Peach's dress, I believe in the little guy.

 

[nessdeltarune00]

Any FE Three Houses character would simply be a complete dud for me.


We don’t need anymore Fire Emblem characters. Period. The series has earned enough reps for Smash.

 

[Cosmic77]

The greatest argument against Toad was killed when PP got in, so he should be taken just as seriously as any other Mario character.

Unlike most of the Mario characters that are left, Toad has the advantage of appearing in both main series entries and spin-offs. You could even pass on moves to him from similar characters (Captain Toad, Toadette).

Any FE Three Houses character would simply be a complete dud for me.


We don’t need anymore Fire Emblem characters. Period. The series has earned enough reps for Smash.

And there's six users already typing a response.

I'd be fine with no more FE, but that's how people seem to feel about Pokemon, so I'm not one to talk.

 

[MooMew64]

Captain Toad would be sick and no one can convince me otherwise.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

I think the problem with Toad is that even with all of his appearance in the Mario franchise, he never do a lot in those game. He's just the guy that's here to tell you that Peach his in another castle, or the guy that need help because they can do nothing alone in the Mario & Luigi franchise. This is why that Captain Toad would be a better choice, it's basically the first and only time that Toad can do something that no other Mario characters can (so I'm not counting thing that he do in sports game for example).

 

[Michael the Spikester]

We don’t need anymore Fire Emblem characters. Period. The series has earned enough reps for Smash.

Finally someone who agrees. You and me both.

 

[Mamboo07]

Hmmst... what's this talking about Fire Emblem I'm seeing here?

 

[MooMew64]

"Fire Emblem bad"

"No it's not"

"No u"

"No u"

There you guys go, I did it for you.

Real talk, this thread really can't go a darn day without upsetting someone on either side of the FE fence and then debating about it, can it?

 

[Lady Kuki]

"Fire Emblem bad"

"No it's not"

"No u"

"No u"

There guys go, I did it for you.

Real talk, this thread really can't go a darn day without upsetting someone on either side of the FE fence and then debating about it, can it?

I really wish we had something Smash related announced at the Game Awards. A character, a date for a Smash related direct... anything. x_x
I think every Tuesday or so though, there's usually spirit board announcements so that could potentially spark interests when it comes to possible newcomers