Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[epicmartin7]

I want to come in and lay on a controversial opinion. I think almost every single Smash prediction, even my own, has no merit. Let me explain.

Game development, is like creating an art project. And game developers, are like artists. They are individuals who strive to have no limits and focus on creative freedom. Their minds go into a mode where they have no boundaries and try to achieve what is on their mind.

What I think almost every smash predictions aims to do is a scientific analysis of it, however, that's where the issue is. Science, is dependent on patterns and artists have no patterns.

I mean, sure, it's actually science to break down a games inner workings to find out its functions. However, it fails when trying to predict new stuff added.

A good analogy is like knowing a sentient being created the Universe. You currently know the laws of physics, so you try to predict what it'll add in relation to that. However, that will get you nowhere because the brain of the being is too unpredictable. It's the same with Smash Bros.

I just think that, while smash speculation can be fun, it's good to keep in mind that nothing is ever accurate. You and I might make predictions, but their conclusions don't really change all that much because we are trying to measure too many variables.

Now... there's one thing you can sort of approximate, and that's planning. That is more structured and economic, and is the template for the art project. So because of it's structure you can approximate it somewhat without leaving out too many variables.

But other than that, that's pretty much it. This might be an out there thing to say, but I do think it makes sense.

 

[CureParfait]

Well i was thinking about asking this question to the thread for a while now...

If your most wanted character would get in Smash, what kind of unique mechanic/gimmick could they have? How would it work?

Like, Joker has Arsene (Rebel guard itself is also a pretty unique move), Hero got the down-b menu (also the MP and the Crits.), Banjo got Wonderwing and Terry got the 'Go' thing at 100%+.

For mine, i was thinking Hayabusa could have his ninpo art of summoning clones of himself. It could work a bit like Luma or the Ice Climbers sort of, except the clones could stay in the air (instead of falling), couldn't be hit (they wouldn't block projectiles and stuff) and you could pass through them (pretty much exactly like in Ninja Gaiden 2 on NES). Wall climbing/running would also be great but maybe too situational (e.g. useless on FD or Battlefield). Like every idea, they'd have to put some kind of downside (like a time limit or a 'cost' of some sort) to make it balanced.

If anyone want to share their ideas, i'd be very interested to read them.

I think an unique mechanic for Darkrai could be where he does his Dark Void attack and there is a chance the opponent will sleep when hit.

 

[DarthEnderX]

If your most wanted character would get in Smash, what kind of unique mechanic/gimmick could they have? How would it work?

Hopefully none. Cause I hate that ****, and it's more likely to ruin a character for me(looking at you, Hero).

I just want my characters to play simply, and play well.

here's a fun Q: if your number one most wanted character was in, what assist trophy would come with them and how would it work

Hmm...I wouldn't really want an AT for my number one pick(Hayabusa). So I'd go for one for Kunio instead:

Abobo

River City and Double Dragon are more or less part of the same universe these days.

He'd come smashing through the background wall, and just stomp around tossing people into the air.

 

[Cosmic77]

Hopefully none. Cause I hate that ****, and it's more likely to ruin a character for me(looking at you, Hero).

I just want my characters to play simply, and play well.

Normally I'd agree, but Hero's Command Selection gimmick is practically the only thing stopping him from being a boring mix-and-match of other swordfighters.

 

[Night Gale]

If anyone want to share their ideas, i'd be very interested to read them.

That was interesting. Thanks for sharing, bruh.

One of my most wanted characters is Reiko Nagase from Ridge Racer. She's a race queen, so the idea is to cram a lot of references from several Namco driving games. Her main gimmick: she's a passenger who fights with a f***ing car that she can park and ride inside of. Unlike Wario's bike, you can do everything in that goddamn car. However, once it breaks, another one doesn't spawn unless you lose your stock. She's like a puppet user because you can fight independently and direct the car to run s*** over. However, she's more effective when she gets inside of it, and her move list changes once you do so. Once inside, all damage inflicted upon the car transfers over to Reiko. You also cannot shield inside of the vehicle, but all damage is reduced. You can run over opponents simply by moving around. Pressing the back button puts the vehicle in reverse. Here's an example of how it would work. This is a sample of my MAGNUM OPUS.

Down special (outside of car) - Reiko holds her thumb up in the air like she's hitching a ride. The car drives up to her. It can hit opponents as it approaches. Once it is in range, press the A button to get in that bish. The doors open upwards like a Ferrari. Any opponents above you will get hit as you enter the vehicle.

Up tilt (inside of car) - The trunk pops open and hits overhead.

Up smash (inside of car) - Reiko opens the sunroof and punches you. Only hits directly above the vehicle.

Up smash (outside of car) - A ramp pops up from the ground in front of Reiko and remains in place. You can use this to make the car go airborne when you drive inside of it. The car deals damage when it lands. Opponents can destroy the ramp.

Down smash (inside of car) - It spins out. Spinning out changes the direction the car faces.

Standard A button combo (outside of car) - Reiko waves a racecar flag.

Side tilt (outside of car) - Reiko swings her handbag at you.

Neutral special (outside of car) - Reiko throws a steering wheel at you. Yes, she carries one; this is a Ridge Racer intro reference. Those intros are so goddamn good.

Side special (inside of car) - Oil slick. Leaves a puddle behind that trips opponents.

Up special (inside of car) - The car gets a nitro boost like in Ridge Racer Unbounded and flies upward.

Up special (outside of car) - Parachute. Reiko's sister from Ace Combat loaned her a parachute because f*** yeah.

Up taunt (inside of car) - The lights flicker and you hear the "Prepare to qualify" soundclip from Pole Position.

 

[Deleted member]

I want to come in and lay on a controversial opinion. I think almost every single Smash prediction, even my own, has no merit. Let me explain.

Game development, is like creating an art project. And game developers, are like artists. They are individuals who strive to have no limits and focus on creative freedom. Their minds go into a mode where they have no boundaries and try to achieve what is on their mind.

What I think almost every smash predictions aims to do is a scientific analysis of it, however, that's where the issue is. Science, is dependent on patterns and artists have no patterns.

I mean, sure, it's actually science to break down a games inner workings to find out its functions. However, it fails when trying to predict new stuff added.

A good analogy is like knowing a sentient being created the Universe. You currently know the laws of physics, so you try to predict what it'll add in relation to that. However, that will get you nowhere because the brain of the being is too unpredictable. It's the same with Smash Bros.

I just think that, while smash speculation can be fun, it's good to keep in mind that nothing is ever accurate. You and I might make predictions, but their conclusions don't really change all that much because we are trying to measure too many variables.

Now... there's one thing you can sort of approximate, and that's planning. That is more structured and economic, and is the template for the art project. So because of it's structure you can approximate it somewhat without leaving out too many variables.

But other than that, that's pretty much it. This might be an out there thing to say, but I do think it makes sense.

Yeah. Tbh, I've had **** luck guessing fighters before and after Hero and BK. At this point, I just wanna know who it is.

 

[PK-remling Fire]

If your most wanted character would get in Smash, what kind of unique mechanic/gimmick could they have? How would it work?

Like, Joker has Arsene (Rebel guard itself is also a pretty unique move), Hero got the down-b menu (also the MP and the Crits.), Banjo got Wonderwing and Terry got the 'Go' thing at 100%+.

Not my most wanted, but if Monster Hunter got in, I'd like to see monsters be worked into their moveset some way.

Maybe one can appear after certain conditions are met and be a puppet fighter to some extent. It'd also be cool if it benefits the Hunter in some way for attacking the monster they summoned, maybe like making the monster's attacks stronger by getting them enraged, or killing the monster for some kind of buff, while at the same time having the monster's attacks deal damage/knockback to the Hunter if they get too careless.

Some cool monsters I could see for this would be Deviljho, Nargacuga, Brachydios, Zinogre, Glavenus, Tigrex, Rajang, or possibly an Elder Dragon like Nergigante.

 

[FTXSR]

Rillaboom from Pokemon Sword/Shield
Byleth from Fire Emblem

 

[P.Kat]

That was interesting. Thanks for sharing, bruh.

One of my most wanted characters is Reiko Nagase from Ridge Racer. She's a race queen, so the idea is to cram a lot of references from several Namco driving games. Her main gimmick: she's a passenger who fights with a f***ing car that she can park and ride inside of. Unlike Wario's bike, you can do everything in that goddamn car. However, once it breaks, another one doesn't spawn unless you lose your stock. She's like a puppet user because you can fight independently and direct the car to run s*** over. However, she's more effective when she gets inside of it, and her move list changes once you do so. Once inside, all damage iinflicted upon the car transfers over to Reiko. You also cannot shield inside of the vehicle, but all damage is reduced. You can run over opponents simply by moving around. Pressing the back button puts the vehicle in reverse. Here's an example of how it would work. This is a sample of my MAGNUM OPUS.

Down special (outside of car) - Reiko holds her thumb up in the air like she's hitching a ride. The car drives up to her. It can hit opponents. Once it is in range, press the A button to get in that bish. The doors open upwards like a Ferrari. Any opponents above you will get hit as you enter the vehicle.

Up tilt (inside of car) - The trunk pops open and hits overhead.

Up smash (inside of car) - Reiko opens the sunroof and punches you. Only hits directly above the vehicle.

Down smash (inside of car) - It spins out. Spinning out changes the direction the car faces.

Standard A button combo (outside of car) - Reiko waves a racecar flag.

Side tilt (outside of car) - Reiko swings her handbag at you.

Neutral special (outside of car) - Reiko throws a steering wheel at you. Yes, she carries one; this is a Ridge Racer intro reference. Those intros are so goddamn good.

Side special (inside of car) - Oil slick. Leaves a puddle behind that trips opponents.

Up special (inside of car) - The car gets a nitro boost like in Ridge Racer Unbounded and flies upward.

Up special (outside of car) - Parachute. Reiko's sister from Ace Combat loaned her a parachute because f*** yeah.

Up taunt (inside of car) - The lights flicker and you hear the "Prepare to qualify" soundclip from Pole Position.

I like it sounds like it can be really useful and a lot of fun on a long stage like Palutena/Hyrule temple.

 

[Cosmic77]

Rillaboom from Pokemon Sword/Shield
Byleth from Fire Emblem

Welcome to Smashboards. That's an...interesting username and profile pic. If you aren't purposely trying to get banned, you might want to consider changing them.

Yes to Byleth, but I'm on the fence with Rillaboom. It's easily the most difficult starter to make into a fighter, and I think a lot of people are still caught up on the whole grass type thing, which really shouldn't matter.

Course, that's coming from someone who's pushing the Legendaries, so maybe I'm a little biased here.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Been gone a few times for most of the day. We still square one are any leaks that had occurred in my absence?

 

[RealLuigisWearPink]

Been gone a few times for most of the day. We still square one are any leaks that had occurred in my absence?

it was leaked by the credible source W.A Stetime that Sheng Long is fighter 5

 

[SNEKeater]

daily reminder that frogger is still in the running

 

[Idon]

daily reminder that frogger is still in the running

I would think he'd be hopping rather than running.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Normally I'd agree, but Hero's Command Selection gimmick is practically the only thing stopping him from being a boring mix-and-match of other swordfighters.

Yeah, except I actually PLAY those other swordfighters, even though I don't care about them. Whereas I care a LOT about Hero, but never play him because of his bull****.

 

[SkullKidWept]

FP5: Leon/Chris/Jill (or other RE rep - or multiples as alts)

Fasters Pass 2:
1. Waluigi
2. Rex & Pyra (or KOS-MOS)
3. Geno
4. Dixie Kong
5. Skull Kid (or other Zelda rep)

Fasters Pass 3:
1. Sora
2. Kratos
3. Minecraft Steve (or Master Chief)
4. Crash Bandicoot
5. Shovel Knight (AND a Hollow Knight "premium" Mii costume)

I will give context and justifications to this list tomorrow, for discussion and speculation's sake.

 

[P.Kat]

Rillaboom from Pokemon Sword/Shield
Byleth from Fire Emblem

Welcome to Smashboards, I definitely wouldn't mind having Byleth in, but I'm sure how I'd feel about Rillaboom

 

[DarthEnderX]

Pass 1:
5. Ryu Hayabusa [Ninja Gaiden]

Pass 2:
1. Bill Rizer/Lance Bean [Contra]
2. Arthur [Ghosts ‘n Goblins]
3. Kunio/Riki [River City Ransom]
4. Bub/Bob [Bubble Bobble]
5. Nathan Spencer [Bionic Commando]

Pass 3:
1. SV-001 Metal Slug [Metal Slug]
2. Shantae [Shantae]
3. Kazuma Kiryu [Yakuza]
4. Jill Valentine [Resident Evil]
5. Geno [Super Mario RPG]

 

[FTXSR]

Yikes, I was already reported. Lame.

I was also thinking Tiny kong or lanky kong, yuri from tales of vesperia, velvet from tales of berseria. I'd be extremely happy if they put in a tales character, though Lloyd was thrown in the trash

 

[SKX31]

Oh, so we're doing this? Letsa go!

FP5. Dante [Devil May Cry]

FP2:

1. Arle [Puyo Puyo]
2. Crash Bandicoot
3. Ryu Hayabusa [Ninja Gaiden]
4. Kat [Gravity Rush]
5. Master Chief [Halo]

FP3:

1. Amaterasu [Okami]
2. Lara Croft [Tomb Raider]
3. Steve [Minecraft]
4. Kratos [God of War]
5. Ahri [League of Legends] or Lina [Dota 2]

Edit: Additional wants include: KOS-MOS, Sora, Doomguy, Gordon Freeman, Tracer, Heihachi, Sash Lilac, an FF villain (Jecht especially) etc. And on the Nintendo side: Elma, Style Savvy, Impa, ressurected Project H.A.M.M.E.R, etc.

it was leaked by the credible source W.A Stetime that Sheng Long is fighter 5

I'm just waiting for the EGM article in April about Sheng Long (edit) that will have people talking for decades.

 

[KillerCage]

I'm not sure if this guy has been discussed, but...

How would you guys feel if Hyde from Under Night In-Birth got into Smash?

 

[Krankees]

I'm not sure if this guy has been discussed, but...

How would you guys feel if Hyde from Under Night In-Birth got into Smash?

I would be pretty hype to be honest. I picked up UNIST months ago and I really enjoy playing it.

Also new to this thread.

 

[Nemuresu]

I'm not sure if this guy has been discussed, but...

How would you guys feel if Hyde from Under Night In-Birth got into Smash?

He'd be hilarious for the same reason as Blazblue characters: turn a sprite-only character into a 3D model.

Still waiting for the Switch version so I can finally try the game, but frankly, the most attractive thing about having UNIB in Smash would be the music.

 

[Goombaic]

Since I didn't agree with GameXplain's top 100 women list and I won't let them have opinions, I made my own list that's mostly unordered because 100 is too large of a number to order. Only the top 20 are genuinely ordered.

Yeah, a lot of them are also in GX's list, but I felt the orders were just way too wacky, especially having Pauline above everyone. I didn't include avatars like Byleth and Octolings because that's cheating.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

Well i was thinking about asking this question to the thread for a while now...

If your most wanted character would get in Smash, what kind of unique mechanic/gimmick could they have? How would it work?
If anyone want to share their ideas, i'd be very interested to read them.

Dark Matter would have a Corrin-style transformation gimmick in which it shifts between its swordsman form and true form to perform certain attacks. It would also have a ROB-style meter with its recovery in which you can guess when it will enter freefall depending on how many petals it has.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I'm sure how I'd feel about Rillaboom

I already think people should stop obsessing over the grass quota, and Rillaboom is the perfect reason to do so. I'm always going on about how its drum isn't portable enough, but besides that, it's supposed to manipulate roots while playing it. How will that make sense on small platforms?

 

[Dragoncharystary]

FP5: Leon/Chris/Jill (or other RE rep - or multiples as alts)

Fasters Pass 2:
1. Waluigi
2. Rex & Pyra (or KOS-MOS)
3. Geno
4. Dixie Kong
5. Skull Kid (or other Zelda rep)

Fasters Pass 3:
1. Sora
2. Kratos
3. Minecraft Steve (or Master Chief)
4. Crash Bandicoot
5. Shovel Knight (AND a Hollow Knight "premium" Mii costume)

I will give context and justifications to this list tomorrow, for discussion and speculation's sake.

My list is this but swap out Skull Kid for Bandanna Dee and Shovel Knight for Master Chief.

 

[NoOtherPersona]

Dark Matter would have a Corrin-style transformation gimmick in which it shifts between its swordsman form and true form to perform certain attacks. It would also have a ROB-style meter with its recovery in which you can guess when it will enter freefall depending on how many petals it has.
View attachment 253066

funny enough dark matter is one of the better Kirby villains that I can think of too bad Sakurai wouldn't touch it because he didn't create him

 

[Cosmic77]

I already think people should stop obsessing over the grass quota, and Rillaboom is the perfect reason to do so. I'm always going on about how its drum isn't portable enough, but besides that, it's supposed to manipulate roots while playing it. How will that make sense on small platforms?

I think if Sakurai really wanted Rillaboom in Smash, he could make it work. Looking at the previous 3 fighters though, I don't think it'll happen. Lucario, Greninja, and Incineroar all have one thing in common, and that's the fact that they were designed with fighting in mind. Lucario is a martial artist, Greninja is a ninja, and Incineroar is a wrestler. Rillaboom is a drummer, and one who usually attacks while he's stationary at that.

I just don't think he can compete with a sniper, a Pokemon known for kicking, and two Legendaries that are the living embodiment of weapons we see in Smash all the time.

 

[Nemuresu]

I already think people should stop obsessing over the grass quota, and Rillaboom is the perfect reason to do so. I'm always going on about how its drum isn't portable enough, but besides that, it's supposed to manipulate roots while playing it. How will that make sense on small platforms?

Not really desiring to have any more pokémon in Smash, but Camp shows that Rillaboom actually carries the drum on its back:

And for the root issue, it's really just as simple as not making any drum attack work in the air, or just making them more limited, like Terry's aerial Power Wave.

 

[P.Kat]

I'm not sure if this guy has been discussed, but...

How would you guys feel if Hyde from Under Night In-Birth got into Smash?

I'd be hyped for Hyde, But I'd be over the moon if Yuzuriha made it in. From what I saw in BBTAG (never got around playing Under Night), I love her fighting style too.

Spoiler

 

[Deleted member]

Since I didn't agree with GameXplain's top 100 women list and I won't let them have opinions, I made my own list that's mostly unordered because 100 is too large of a number to order. Only the top 20 are genuinely ordered.

Yeah, a lot of them are also in GX's list, but I felt the orders were just way too wacky, especially having Pauline above everyone. I didn't include avatars like Byleth and Octolings because that's cheating.

Link to this maker?

 

[Guynamednelson]

Rillaboom actually carries the drum on its back:

I know about that, but it feels like it's gonna have to spend enough time setting it up to be vulnerable before it starts playing. Sorry grass quota stans, but considering how much of a sitting duck Rillaboom would be, it's more like a water type.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I already think people should stop obsessing over the grass quota, and Rillaboom is the perfect reason to do so. I'm always going on about how its drum isn't portable enough, but besides that, it's supposed to manipulate roots while playing it. How will that make sense on small platforms?

It doesn't have to make complete sense. Also I think he chucks the thing on his back while he's not using it so I could see him doing that during his run cycle.

I think if Sakurai really wanted Rillaboom in Smash, he could make it work. Looking at the previous 3 fighters though, I don't think it'll happen. Lucario, Greninja, and Incineroar all have one thing in common, and that's the fact that they were designed with fighting in mind. Lucario is a martial artist, Greninja is a ninja, and Incineroar is a wrestler. Rillaboom is a drummer, and one who usually attacks while he's stationary at that. I just don't think he can compete with a sniper, a Pokemon known for kicking, and two Legendaries that are the living embodiment of weapons we see in Smash all the time.

All Pokémon are designed with fighting in mind. It's what they do. Beyond that ninjas aren't really fighters. They're for reconnaissance and assassination. I'm pretty sure Lucario was chosen because of how much he was being marketed, and the other two starters were chosen because they had well defined motifs so you could get a sense of them even without seeing them in action.

Personally I'd pick Rillaboom because Intelleon and the generic anime protagonist's designs bother me. One of the doggos would be great too though, especially since it would mean some of the series's potential for non-standard fighters would be used. I'd really like to see more Jigglypuffs and Ivysaurs from the series rather than another straight forward approach that the starters give us.

 

[CureParfait]

I'm not sure if this guy has been discussed, but...

How would you guys feel if Hyde from Under Night In-Birth got into Smash?

Pretty hype to be honest.

 

[Goombaic]

Link to this maker?

No maker. I took a screenshot of tier maker and put pngs over it because I wanted to make the list to look cluttered. I can make one real quick, though.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

I didn't include avatars like Byleth and Octolings because that's cheating.

To be fair the Octolings are one of the few avatar characters to be female by default like the Inklings and Wii Fit Trainer. Male octolings didn’t even exist in the first game, aside from one piece of concept art showing DJ Octavio in humanoid form.

 

[shinhed-echi]

Well i was thinking about asking this question to the thread for a while now...

If your most wanted character would get in Smash, what kind of unique mechanic/gimmick could they have? How would it work?

Like, Joker has Arsene (Rebel guard itself is also a pretty unique move), Hero got the down-b menu (also the MP and the Crits.), Banjo got Wonderwing and Terry got the 'Go' thing at 100%+.
.

If Mike Jones were to be included, I think he’d be more of a traditional, gimmick less character, BUT, I do see him having at least one gimmick.

He starts the match using his Supernova as a main weapon. That’s the final upgrade to his Yo-yo family of weapons.

Anyway, it’s probably as long as Simon’s Fsmash, and shoots an energy projectile that goes a long distance. But there can only be one projectile out at the time.

When he takes damage, say up to 50%, it gets downgraded to a Shooting Star, which is a morning star that hits weaker and shoots a sharp projectile that travels only a few more units beyond its max reach.

And when he takes 100% damage, the Shooting Star devolves into his Yo-yo.
It has no projectile, and the reach is probably as long as Ness’ yo-yo, Maybe a bit more due to Mike’s arm being longer.

The upside to losing power is that the main weapon becomes more combo-able.
So it becomes easier to rack up damage, with more rapid-fire attacks, but harder to secure a KO.

Each weapon changes the Meta for Mike.
So supernova phase is more of a keepaway powerhouse.
Morning Star is a mid-range zoner.
And Yo-yo is a close range rushdown.

 

[Cosmic77]

It doesn't have to make complete sense. Also I think he chucks the thing on his back while he's not using it so I could see him doing that during his run cycle.


All Pokémon are designed with fighting in mind. It's what they do. Beyond that ninjas aren't really fighters. They're for reconnaissance and assassination. I'm pretty sure Lucario was chosen because of how much he was being marketed, and the other two starters were chosen because they had well defined motifs so you could get a sense of them even without seeing them in action.

Personally I'd pick Rillaboom because Intelleon and the generic anime protagonist's designs bother me. One of the doggos would be great too though, especially since it would mean some of the series's potential for non-standard fighters would be used. I'd really like to see more Jigglypuffs and Ivysaurs from the series rather than another straight forward approach that the starters give us.

What I meant is that Pokemon like Lucario and Incineroar are easier to envision in Smash because they have designs that compliment fighting. Even when you set the fancy Pokemon moves aside, it's easy to see them throwing punches or kicking opponents.

Rillaboom is a biped, which works in his favor, but compared to Inteleon and Cinderace, I think Sakurai would struggle more with it when creating a fighter who can run around and attack people in a way that feels natural. I know another water or fire type doesn't sound appealing, but I'm just being honest. That's coming from someone who's prefer none of the starters get in.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Ooh! What if they treated Rillaboom's drum like a separate object? He could pick up, put down, or create the drum with his Down Special, play, or kick around the drum with his normal moves, and his special moves would interact with the drum in some way in order to enhance them. It'd be like playing a Rivals of Aether character.

To be fair the Octolings are one of the few avatar characters to be female by default like the Inklings and Wii Fit Trainer. Male octolings didn’t even exist in the first game, aside from one piece of concept art showing DJ Octavio in humanoid form.

Technically D.J. Octavio is still an Octoling, he just doesn't have a humanoid form. In fact I think most Octolings don't have a humanoid form come to think of it. (Unless Octolings are just a subspecies and I don't remember what the octopus people as a whole are actually called.)