Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Ultomato]

But Robin is enough to represent one game. And is a (unique) mage class. Chrom is swordwilder no 7. His moveset in Awakening is not very different to Marth or Ike.



I would think it is a "point of view" case. Robin is the antagonist from Awakening as well as the hero/second main character. I am wondering that Grima is no Spirit in Smash Bros. And related to what is a Spoiler. The whole Spirit mechanic is a big Spoiler. :D I am mention only Zelgius and Black Knight. ^^

Tbf he doesn't even have a proper Grima alt

 

[SPEN18]

s nothing to do with the most important. They're still important characters. That's the point. Pichu is still important regardless. And not really for Blaziken. Recency isn't why it got chosen. It got chosen because of the Wrestling archtype specifically. Not simply because it was recent alone. That gave it a slight advantage, but its moveset was what mattered first. And of course if you're cutting Pokemon you choose the most important. But that's not the context here either; I was talking about which Pokemon actually have importance. And that's everyone but Jigglypuff. The context was "nobody important was added since Brawl", which is untrue, as every Starter holds importance. It seems like you missed the point of why I said that.

Sakurai literally almost said no to Corrin cause Fire Emblem already had a lot of characters. If Corrin was boring, then he wouldn't necessarily have anyone to choose. Promotional purposes got the character in sight, but uniqueness is the key factor in actually choosing to include the charact

It definitely has to do with who is more important. Roster space is very limited, and the aim is to pick the best characters. With Incineroar, we now know that Sakurai saved a spot for a Gen 7 rep and that Decidueye was also considered for Incineroar's spot. The wrestler attribute may have been why Incineroar specifically was chosen, but it doesn't change the fact that he filled a quota for a recent Pokémon. If he wasn't a recent Pokémon but was still a wrestler, then he wouldn't have been chosen for this slot. And besides, being chosen just for being a wrestler is kinda bad; if there are no significant characters who are wrestlers, well then we don't need a wrestler, plain and simple.
And yeah, I did somewhat ignore the context of what you said, so sorry for that. Although I would still say that Incineroar, Pichu, Squirtle, and Ivysaur have pretty limited importance at best, given that most of them are greatly overshadowed by other things.

I don't see why someone like Azura wouldn't be a viable promotional FE choice if Corrin was too boring. They wanted somebody from a recent or upcoming game and that's why Corrin was considered. Uniqueness just helped override some potential roster balance issues he could have caused.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

While I agree that the Pokémon Trainer is important from the standpoint of representing the mechanics of Pokémon (switching between mons to take advantage of certain matchups), I don't think he's worth the dev time it takes to make three separate mons. Charizard is more than enough to stand by himself. We also have other NFE mons like Pikachu and Jiggs to represent the different stages.

The only character I gave mechanical validation was Inciniroar as his playstyle is commonplace in other fighting games but unique to it in Smash. My argument for the Pokémon Trainer was that, as the series recurring main protagonist he has to have his spot on the roster in order to have a perfect representation of the Pokémon series. They may not be the mascot of the series but they're still just as important to the series as Link, Samus, or Marth. Squirtle and Ivysaur are important to the character as well not only from a mechanical standpoint (that you don't care about for some reason) but because they also represent the journey that the player undergoes in every Pokémon game. They start with a stage one starter Pokémon (Squirtle), and as they progress their Pokémon gets stronger and evolves (Ivysaur) until they are an unstoppable powerhouse (Charizard) at the end of the game.

 

[shocktarts17]

The only character I gave mechanical validation was Inciniroar as his playstyle is commonplace in other fighting games but unique to it in Smash. My argument for the Pokémon Trainer was that, as the series recurring main protagonist he has to have his spot on the roster in order to have a perfect representation of the Pokémon series. They may not be the mascot of the series but they're still just as important to the series as Link, Samus, or Marth. Squirtle and Ivysaur are important to the character as well not only from a mechanical standpoint (that you don't care about for some reason) but because they also represent the journey that the player undergoes in every Pokémon game. They start with a stage one starter Pokémon (Squirtle), and as they progress their Pokémon gets stronger and evolves (Ivysaur) until they are an unstoppable powerhouse (Charizard) at the end of the game.

I think one way to keep both group happy would be for Pokemon trainer to only have the one Pokemon (Charizard most likely) or for him to have Pokemon from a verity of games (Say they had Charizard, Grovyle, and Oshawott for example). As they are now Pokemon Trainer forces you to include 3 gen 1 Pokemon which along with Pikachu (who isn't going anywhere) Mewtwo (a fan favorite) and Jigglypuff (grandfathered in) you end up with 6 Pokemon in Gen 1 alone. That really hurts Pokemon's representation just to include a character who can switch Pokemon.

 

[BluePikmin11]

For anyone that is interested in watching HyperCharge's Roster Rant video, don't.

I was hoping for solid arguments from one who'd seem capable of speaking the devil's advocate, but all I got was contradictory angry non-sense that only focuses on one line of logic while ignoring other aspects that gives newcomers a decent chance.

If anyone here is still interested in speculating, don't watch HyperCharge's video, it'll rot your brain with the logic he pulls out of his ***.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I think one way to keep both group happy would be for Pokemon trainer to only have the one Pokemon (Charizard most likely) or for him to have Pokemon from a verity of games (Say they had Charizard, Grovyle, and Oshawott for example). As they are now Pokemon Trainer forces you to include 3 gen 1 Pokemon which along with Pikachu (who isn't going anywhere) Mewtwo (a fan favorite) and Jigglypuff (grandfathered in) you end up with 6 Pokemon in Gen 1 alone.

I can see where you're coming from but I personally can't justify cutting characters for the sole purpose of replacing them. I'd say that, moving forward, the roster should retain Pikachu, Jigglypuff, Mewtwo, and the Pokémon Trainer (Squirtle, Ivysaur, Charizard). After that, it should also add two more charcters that can be a combination of Lucario (whom I would consider to be somewhat of a legacy character), Inciniroar (for his moveset), an immensely popular Pokémon ( perhaps Grovyle or Zoroark), and a representitive from either gen 8, 9 or 10.

For anyone that is interested in watching HyperCharge's Roster Rant video, don't.

I was hoping for solid arguments from one who'd seem capable of speaking the devil's advocate, but all I got was contradictory angry non-sense that only focuses on one line of logic while ignoring other aspects that gives newcomers a decent chance.

If anyone here is still interested in speculating, don't watch HyperCharge's video, it'll rot your brain with the logic he pulls out of his ***.

Well now I'm curious. I think I'll watch it anyw-Oh god it's and hour and a half long!

...Maybe just skim it then...

EDIT: I regret everything.

 

[RileyXY1]

Metroid Prime 4 has been completely scrapped, with the game's developers starting from scratch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=00Fv-O103Gw&app=desktop

 

[shocktarts17]

Metroid Prime 4 has been completely scrapped, with the game's developers starting from scratch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=00Fv-O103Gw&app=desktop

delayed*

I know what you said isn't wrong but it sure sounds like you're saying it's been canceled lol so I thought I would add that it's just delayed.

 

[RileyXY1]

delayed*

I know what you said isn't wrong but it sure sounds like you're saying it's been canceled lol so I thought I would add that it's just delayed.

I said that game development started from scratch. Doom 2016 went through this as well.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Metroid Prime 4 has been completely scrapped, with the game's developers starting from scratch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=00Fv-O103Gw&app=desktop

delayed*

I know what you said isn't wrong but it sure sounds like you're saying it's been canceled lol so I thought I would add that it's just delayed.

Considering the game's development will probably last another 2-4 years I think it's safe to say that we won't be seeing Sylux as a promotional character. (Or if we do then it will be hilariously awkward.)

 

[BluePikmin11]

I can see where you're coming from but I personally can't justify cutting characters for the sole purpose of replacing them. I'd say that, moving forward, the roster should retain Pikachu, Jigglypuff, Mewtwo, and the Pokémon Trainer (Squirtle, Ivysaur, Charizard). After that, it should also add two more charcters that can be a combination of Lucario (whom I would consider to be somewhat of a legacy character), Inciniroar (for his moveset), an immensely popular Pokémon ( perhaps Grovyle or Zoroark), and a representitive from either gen 8, 9 or 10.

Well now I'm curious. I think I'll watch it anyw-Oh god it's and hour and a half long!

...Maybe just skim it then...

EDIT: I regret everything.

I warned you my man.

It is a bad video isn't it?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I warned you my man.

It is a bad video isn't it?

Well...if you find an entitled prick ranting about how those who engage in speculation are entitled pricks obsessing over worthless things, bags on their hopes, and tells them what to think to be hilarious satire then it's an amazing video.

If not then it's just a depressing storm of negativity, which is awful.

 

[shocktarts17]

I said that game development started from scratch. Doom 2016 went through this as well.

Like I said, I know what you said isn't wrong I was just adding the word delayed because saying something was completely scrapped sounds a lot like canceled.

 

[ThiagoCavalcanteCarvalho]

They will probably be characters to promote games like a new generation Pokémon, a character from the new Fire Emble (please do not be another swordsman. There are so many other options in this game. I wanted a spearman, preferably a girl) But I really wish they were outsourced game characters. Indie game character would also be pretty cool. As for my half-hopeless desire, it's Banjo & Kazooie myself.

 

[GoodGrief741]

I think one way to keep both group happy would be for Pokemon trainer to only have the one Pokemon (Charizard most likely) or for him to have Pokemon from a verity of games (Say they had Charizard, Grovyle, and Oshawott for example). As they are now Pokemon Trainer forces you to include 3 gen 1 Pokemon which along with Pikachu (who isn't going anywhere) Mewtwo (a fan favorite) and Jigglypuff (grandfathered in) you end up with 6 Pokemon in Gen 1 alone. That really hurts Pokemon's representation just to include a character who can switch Pokemon.

Personally, I think if it has to be mostly Gen 1 representation, then let it. That’s where most of the iconic Pokémon are from.

 

[shocktarts17]

Personally, I think if it has to be mostly Gen 1 representation, then let it. That’s where most of the iconic Pokémon are from.

Ehh while I'm old enough for Red and Blue to be my first Pokemon game (well Yellow actually but still) I can appreciate that for many other fans they started on other games and want their favorites to be in as well.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Metroid Prime 4 has been completely scrapped, with the game's developers starting from scratch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=00Fv-O103Gw&app=desktop

Whelp there goes Sylux then. We can cross him off.

 

[shocktarts17]

Whelp there goes Sylux then. We can cross him off.

I mean if Sylux was already picked as a DLC rep they aren't going to change it now, they already had to do the same thing with Roy before and he got in still.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I mean if Sylux was already picked as a DLC rep they aren't going to change it now, they already had to do the same thing with Roy before and he got in still.

True. I do hope you're right.

 

[Door Key Pig]

Lol @ that Roster Rant video; "Rhythm Heaven characters using rhythm for attacks would be a stretch"

As one comment put it:

">Doesn't want Crash because he's irrelevant
>Wants Banjo
LMAO "

 

[Grunky Peep]

This thread seems like less of a newcomer thread and more of a "cut this character because I don't like them" thread.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

This thread seems like less of a newcomer thread and more of a "cut this character because I don't like them" thread.

There is a lot of that yes. This tends to happen during information droughts, in fact the last newcomer speculation thread devolved into discussing what to discuss next because everything had been discussed already.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Sylux is out then oh well

So how’s the ryu hayabusa, doom guy/slayer, and Steve rumor going?

 

[Quick Gaming (QG)]

Sora
Steve
Don-Chan
Sans

Quote this

 

[Idon]

Sora
Steve
Don-Chan
Sans

Quote this

I'd rather ignore it.

 

[Deleted member]

Does anybody else here have a hard time of thinking about a nintendo DLC newcomer that isn't a spirit?

 

[TheCJBrine]

Does anybody else here have a hard time of thinking about a nintendo DLC newcomer that isn't a spirit?

Well, there's Porky Minch.

Not that I think Spirits confirm or disconfirm.

 

[Quick Gaming (QG)]

I'd rather ignore it.

What? It was just a prediction for the DLC...y’know...what the topic is actually about?

 

[Cruelcumber]

Well, there's Porky Minch.

Not that I think Spirits confirm or disconfirm.

I wish we'd get official confirmation on if Spirits confirm or deconfirm a character's eligibility for becoming a fighter. Still, Porky Minch & Sylux are the two most likely Nintendo DLC fighters I could see happening if Spirits deconfirm since they're not Spirits in the game. If not however, then it could be nearly anyone for DLC. It's pretty well known that Geno, Isaac, Skull Kid, and more are in high demand among the community, and I'm sure there would be a lot of support for them to get promoted from Spirit to fighter if Spirits didn't deconfirm.

 

[SPEN18]

The only character I gave mechanical validation was Inciniroar as his playstyle is commonplace in other fighting games but unique to it in Smash. My argument for the Pokémon Trainer was that, as the series recurring main protagonist he has to have his spot on the roster in order to have a perfect representation of the Pokémon series. They may not be the mascot of the series but they're still just as important to the series as Link, Samus, or Marth. Squirtle and Ivysaur are important to the character as well not only from a mechanical standpoint (that you don't care about for some reason) but because they also represent the journey that the player undergoes in every Pokémon game. They start with a stage one starter Pokémon (Squirtle), and as they progress their Pokémon gets stronger and evolves (Ivysaur) until they are an unstoppable powerhouse (Charizard) at the end of the game.

First, it doesn't matter if a particular archetype is common in other fighting games; that doesn't mean that it has to be in Smash or even that it's a good fit for Smash.

For PT, it's not that I don't care about the Pokémon mechanics he/she represents; rather, I don't think that those things are worth creating two additional uniques and throwing off the balance in the representation. Having PT make a cameo in the background for certain Pokémon characters like Charizard is fine if you really want him/her to appear in some form. I guess I'd be okay with a PT that uses mons from different Gens, but at the same time there aren't many great choices for that. Oshawott, for example, is hard to justify when Zoroark is the de facto face of Gen 5. You could just decide not to restrict yourself to starters and use other Pokémon to fill the three slots, but at that point you might as well just make them all separate characters. And I also get that the Squirtle and Ivysaur help represent the stages of a Pokémon journey, but my earlier argument was that this already has a sort of "soft" representation with other mons in Smash. For example, Lucario is a Stage 1, Greninja is a Stage 2, and Jiggs and Pikachu are in their base form (unless you count the babies, but even then these two aren't in their final form). Is this as good as PT's representation of the stages? No, but it's close enough that I'm not making two full uniques just to make it a tiny bit better.

You could also make the argument that PT is there in an abstract sense when you play as a Pokémon in Smash; that is, the Smash player himself/herself is kinda acting as the Trainer in a way. My understanding is that (story-wise) most Pokémon don't know how to battle properly unlesss they have a trainer, so fighting with a Pokémon in Smash is kinda like you're the trainer telling, say, Pikachu what to do. Maybe not the best argument, but it's something.

I can see where you're coming from but I personally can't justify cutting characters for the sole purpose of replacing them.

Why not? If a character being cut allows for something better in its place, it's a net gain. This is especially the case when you have stuff like Greninja or Incineroar who are pretty much just there for promotion and little else; when they're no longer promoting anything, they could be canned, unless their legacy has grown large enough since their inclusion that they are worth keeping for other reasons. Incineroar in particular I don't see building a significant legacy, but I guess we'll have to wait and see on that.

Personally, I think if it has to be mostly Gen 1 representation, then let it. That’s where most of the iconic Pokémon are from.

Yeah, not every Gen necessarily has to have a rep. Most people wouldn't say we need a rep from every single Zelda game or every single FE continent.

I wouldn't want it to be all Gen 1, as you ought to have at least a couple from later Gens, but it's hard to find many mons that can outdo Pikachu, Mewtwo, and Charizard. Besides, you can still get Zard, for example, as a second starter and Mega Forme in Gen 6 which is pretty recent. And even without that he's still incredibly well-known. It's not like Zard is any less "relevant" than Incineroar.

 

[GoodGrief741]

I'd rather ignore it.

You ended up quoting it though.

What? It was just a prediction for the DLC...y’know...what the topic is actually about?

When you said to quote you, it read like you were attempting to ‘leak’ the roster. At least, that’s the impression I got.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Having PT make a cameo in the background for certain Pokémon characters like Charizard is fine if you really want him/her to appear in some form.

But then there wouldn't be any point to him. I think they're an all or nothing deal.

For example, Lucario is a Stage 1, Greninja is a Stage 2, and Jiggs and Pikachu are in their base form (unless you count the babies, but even then these two aren't in their final form).

That's...reaching a bit.

Also babies are considered to a level below basic in evolution. This has nothing to do with my argument. It's just...for your brain I guess.

Why not? If a character being cut allows for something better in its place, it's a net gain.

That is, unless you like the character. Then you're just told that your character is worthless, will never and should never be in another Smash game again, and that their replacement is 1000x better anyway. I don't wish this on anyone.

 

[SPEN18]

But then there wouldn't be any point to him. I think they're an all or nothing deal.

Perhaps. If that won't satisfy anybody, then I'm fine with taking him out altogether. It was just a suggestion.

Perhaps you could also add a bit more to it by letting Squirtle and Ivysaur come out for the Triple Finish FS.

That's...reaching a bit.

Also babies are considered to a level below basic in evolution. This has nothing to do with my argument. It's just...for your brain I guess.

How is it reaching? Part of the point was that we already have Pokémon of all different stages, and that contributes to the diversity of the mons roster outside of PT. And besides, having that chain represented isn't necessarily a priority. It's not like I need to have Roy promote into his higher class mid-battle in Smash just because class changing is a key mechanic in Fire Emblem (which would be satisfying to see him do without dragging him through most of FE6 along with his near-useless fighting ability), and likewise I don't need to have Young Link be able to turn into Adult Link mid-battle.

That is, unless you like the character. Then you're just told that your character is worthless, will never and should never be in another Smash game again, and that their replacement is 1000x better anyway. I don't wish this on anyone.

But there are also plenty of characters who have never been in Smash that get those things said about them. People have said Isaac and Golden Sun are dead and worthless and should never be in Smash, and that Shulk is a 1000x better anime swordsman. I get the sentiment for vets, but it's not like that sentiment isn't there for any character. Any exclusion is gonna disappoint people, vet or otherwise. According to pretty much all the information we have from the ballot, it is highly likely that more people would be disappointed with Isaac missing his shot again than Squirtle and Ivysaur getting cut.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Perhaps. If that won't satisfy anybody, then I'm fine with taking him out altogether. It was just a suggestion.

Perhaps you could also add a bit more to it by letting Squirtle and Ivysaur come out for the Triple Finish FS.



How is it reaching? Part of the point was that we already have Pokémon of all different stages, and that contributes to the diversity of the mons roster outside of PT. And besides, having that chain represented isn't necessarily a priority. It's not like I need to have Roy promote into his higher class mid-battle in Smash just because class changing is a key mechanic in Fire Emblem (which would be satisfying to see him do without dragging him through most of FE6 along with his near-useless fighting ability), and likewise I don't need to have Young Link be able to turn into Adult Link mid-battle.



But there are also plenty of characters who have never been in Smash that get those things said about them. People have said Isaac and Golden Sun are dead and worthless and should never be in Smash, and that Shulk is a 1000x better anime swordsman. I get the sentiment for vets, but it's not like that sentiment isn't there for any character. Any exclusion is gonna disappoint people, vet or otherwise. According to pretty much all the information we have from the ballot, it is highly likely that more people would be disappointed with Isaac missing his shot again than Squirtle and Ivysaur getting cut.

I'm just going to stop arguing now. It's off topic and doesn't really have much point to it (I mean...Unless you enjoyed the conversation. But I probably come across as too much of a whiny ideot for that to be the case).

EDIT: See? I even spelled idiot wrong. lol

It's not like I need to have Roy promote into his higher class mid-battle in Smash just because class changing is a key mechanic in Fire Emblem (which would be satisfying to see him do without dragging him through most of FE6 along with his near-useless fighting ability).

I now have the strong desire to see alternate costumes for the Fire Emblem characters based upon their promotion outfits. Except for the echoes. It would defeat the purpose of them unless they were done after the game launched.

 

[Quick Gaming (QG)]

You ended up quoting it though.



When you said to quote you, it read like you were attempting to ‘leak’ the roster. At least, that’s the impression I got.

oh, no that was just a bold prediction based on what makes the most sense

 

[SPEN18]

I'm just going to stop arguing now. It's off topic and doesn't really have much point to it (I mean...Unless you enjoyed the conversation. But I probably come across as too much of a whiny ideot for that to be the case).

EDIT: See? I even spelled idiot wrong. l

Fair enough. And I may not have agreed with everything you said, but I wouldn't call you a "whiny idiot" for it.
People have attachments to these characters, so naturally they have different visions for the roster and these often conflict with each other. That's okay. What I say around here often has to do with advocating for particular roster choices that I think make sense, but that doesn't mean I'm out for anybody on a personal level.
As somewhat of an aside, I can add that Zard is my least favorite Kanto starter, but I still think he's the best choice among the three for Smash.

 

[GoodGrief741]

I wanna throw something that just occurred to me out there. Keep in mind this is a bit too conspiracy theory to my taste, but maybe it makes sense to others.

We all know that development for Metroid Prime 4 has been restarted, with the dev team switching from Bandai Namco to Retro Studios. Now, we don’t know what happened behind the scenes, but...

What if part of the reason for the dev switch is because a new DLC season has just been greenlit and the Smash team needs the extra hands?

 

[Idon]

I wanna throw something that just occurred to me out there. Keep in mind this is a bit too conspiracy theory to my taste, but maybe it makes sense to others.

We all know that development for Metroid Prime 4 has been restarted, with the dev team switching from Bandai Namco to Retro Studios. Now, we don’t know what happened behind the scenes, but...

What if part of the reason for the dev switch is because a new DLC season has just been greenlit and the Smash team needs the extra hands?

Uhhh, I'm not too versed in game speculation, but I don't think that's how it works.

 

[SpectreJordan]

Yeah, I don’t think that’s it. They went to Retro because Retro’s proven they know what they’re doing in the past.

An insider claims that Retro presented Nintendo with a demo too.

 

[osby]

They will probably be characters to promote games like a new generation Pokémon, a character from the new Fire Emble (please do not be another swordsman. There are so many other options in this game. I wanted a spearman, preferably a girl) But I really wish they were outsourced game characters. Indie game character would also be pretty cool. As for my half-hopeless desire, it's Banjo & Kazooie myself.

"spearMAN"
"preferably a GIRL"

...OK. Personally I prefer of they choose an important and interesting character instead of adding a random unit based on what they hold at their hand.