Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Lamperouge]

I'm pretty damn sure that short of Mario and Pikachu every other character on the roster would be unknown to Mr. Average Joe walking down the street.

Sonic the Hedgehog is certainly up there as one of the most iconic characters in gaming, too.

 

[Shroob]

I'm pretty damn sure that short of Mario and Pikachu every other character on the roster would be unknown to Mr. Average Joe walking down the street.

Hey now. Let's not discredit all the other Pokemon.


They're also Pikachu.

 

[Wunderwaft]

I'll just leave this here

 

[Deleted member]

Honestly if you're all just whining about our choice of roster then I'll just wait until the next leak. Just trying to get my thoughts out of the window.

 

[Shroob]

Honestly if you're all just whining about our choice of roster then I'll just wait until the next leak. Just trying to get my thoughts out of the window.

....People are whining?


The only thing I'm seeing is a discussion where most people who aren't deep into the Smash fanbase wouldn't know who the characters in game are.

 

[Deleted member]

The only thing I'm seeing is a discussion where most people who aren't deep into the Smash fanbase wouldn't know who the characters in game are.

*shrugs*

At least that's how I see it.

 

[Shroob]

*shrugs*

At least that's how I see it.

You need glasses then lol.


People are just saying "Yeah, random dude down the street would have no idea who Captain Falcon/Ness/Fox/etc is."

 

[Lamperouge]

Honestly if you're all just whining about our choice of roster then I'll just wait until the next leak. Just trying to get my thoughts out of the window.

...Who's whining?

The bulk of the roster being seen as obscure by the general public doesn't equate to it being a bad selection of characters.

 

[Deleted member]

You need glasses then lol.


People are just saying "Yeah, random dude down the street would have no idea who Captain Falcon/Ness/Fox/etc is."

Heheh. There isn't a leak today to debunk, hence, I'm not needing them today.

And they say it's a bad thing?

...Who's whining?

The bulk of the roster being seen as obscure by the general public doesn't equate to it being a bad selection of characters.

I know, I know. I easily misunderstand things, okay. I just don't find time to backread much.

 

[PSIGuy]

So we already have a standalone DLC fighter (Pirahna Plant) and it seems increasingly likely we'll see another in future. But what about standalone stage DLC? Are there any games/franchises that would be popular enough to warrant standalone stages with music?

I think most people only really care about fighters so it's an interesting dynamic to think about. Are there places or games people would love to fight on rather than characters they'd want to fight as? Are there settings with fanbases rivaling BK or K. Rool that people would want to see updated?

 

[Flyboy]

So we already have a standalone DLC fighter (Pirahna Plant) and it seems increasingly likely we'll see another in future. But what about standalone stage DLC? Are there any games/franchises that would be popular enough to warrant standalone stages with music?

I think most people only really care about fighters so it's an interesting dynamic to think about. Are there places or games people would love to fight on rather than characters they'd want to fight as? Are there settings with fanbases rivaling BK or K. Rool that people would want to see updated?

If it means including music, absolutely. As much as I want Elma, just getting some Xenoblade X locations with that music would be incredible. Or even a proper Style Savvy or Rhythm Heaven or Wave Race stage. I'd kill for Dolphin Park.

 

[PsychoJosh]

I mean, tbh, if having to do **** like QCF for basic moves on Mario, Smash would be a lot less fun to me personally.

I enjoy Smash since it's the only game where I don't have to memorize all those combos and joystick movements that every other fighter has.


It really depends. If you start adding Shoto-mechanics ala-Ryu or Ken to other fighters, then yeah, Smash really does lose the accessibility I'd argue.

I was never arguing for adding QCF inputs to any of the existing fighters. Not that it would even matter since some fighters now already have those anyways.

It'd be more a thing like specific commands during actions. Like Donkey Kong being able to charge up his giant punch on somebody while holding them with his grab. Wario inputting a 360 degree rotation of the stick while holding someone to begin swinging them around and then being able to move around with them while swinging them (a move from Wario World). Things that aren't just limitations of the controls.

So we already have a standalone DLC fighter (Pirahna Plant) and it seems increasingly likely we'll see another in future. But what about standalone stage DLC? Are there any games/franchises that would be popular enough to warrant standalone stages with music?

I think most people only really care about fighters so it's an interesting dynamic to think about. Are there places or games people would love to fight on rather than characters they'd want to fight as? Are there settings with fanbases rivaling BK or K. Rool that people would want to see updated?

For the life of me I can't figure out why K. Rool doesn't have a stage based on Krazy Kremland from DKC2. They haven't done a carnival stage yet.

 

[Deleted member]

So we already have a standalone DLC fighter (Pirahna Plant) and it seems increasingly likely we'll see another in future. But what about standalone stage DLC? Are there any games/franchises that would be popular enough to warrant standalone stages with music?

Hmm..good question.

The worst case scenario for this would just be to bring back older stages. Poke Floats, Rainbow Road, you name it. To make this the best case, we would also want to bring in completely new stages, with new music. There's so much to pull from at this point. It's all up to the devs if they will be willing to accept this challenge or not.

 

[Door Key Pig]

If it means including music, absolutely. As much as I want Elma, just getting some Xenoblade X locations with that music would be incredible. Or even a proper Style Savvy or Rhythm Heaven or Wave Race stage. I'd kill for Dolphin Park.

I'd much rather get Rhythm Heaven with a fighter and stage considering it was seemingly planned for last time and was strangely not given Mii costumes this time.

 

[Flyboy]

I'd much rather get Rhythm Heaven with a fighter and stage considering it was seemingly planned for last time and was strangely not given Mii costumes this time.

I mean, yeah, the dream is always to get a fighter and stage, but realistically Something is better than nothing especially when that Something is a full stage with music. Style Savvy is my most-wanted first party but despite the fact that I'd "much rather" have her playable I'm not gonna cry if we get a runway level with cameos.

 

[Night Gale]

I hate Ike's new voice actor.

Greg's raspy ass voice can go back home.

He can stay. Aroused Ike best Ike.

They haven't done a carnival stage yet.

They're waiting for A2.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Yes, it would be built around that, that's the point. It would be a smash game built from the ground up. Honestly all I can really see from your counterpoints is a negative bias against the idea, possibly stemming from the same nonsensical traditionalist point of view. You keep saying things like "it wouldnt work", "it wouldn't be smash", based on absolutely nothing. It's time to just admit you have a bias against any alterations to the game. Because either you don't understand how this idea would work or you just dismiss it offhand for being too different to what you're used to. How do you know it wouldnt work? Why can't they add character specific inputs, or an extra attack button, or new techniques like EX specials? What's stopping a momentum based movement platform fighter from being Smash in the hands of capable devs? Your answer to all of these is basically the same: "it wouldn't be the Smash I know". Which as I said for the umtpteenth time is the point. It's trying new things that, if they worked, would vastly increase the scope and depth of Smash and possibly make it more fun.

We would never find out unless we tried. But we're never going to try because of this view that Smash needs to stay the same forever. "If it ain't broke dont fix it". That's a backwards and unimaginative view. I feel, if it ain't broke, break it. Take it apart and rebuild it, only better.

1. OK sure. I don't like your slip 'n slide idea. The game was built around tight controls and I'd rather play that than slide off platforms, struggle to get back on stage, and then slide past the enemy I'm trying to hit. I just don't think it would be fun without removing the blast zones and implementing a sort of health system or something but by that point it's not a Smash game; It's something else entirely. That's not a bad thing, but when I want to play a smash game that's not what I think of.
2. I said character inputs could work for some characters, and that EX specials could work if implemented correctly. I just pointed out the pitfalls of not implementing them correctly, and sure I'm a little jaded on whether or not they'd be able to do so, but that's not the same thing as being against the ideas.
3. I'll place the extra attack button ideas in the "could work, but would severely negatively impact the game if implemented poorly". I'm not entirely sure what other distinct attacks an extra attack button would give. Smash Attacks? Those super armor attacks from Pokkén Tournament? The latter could be pretty cool actually.
4. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" is a saying for a reason. Oftentimes when trying to "fix" a working system you end up throwing everything into disarray. Sure everything can be improved and experimentation shouldn't be discouraged, but with how good the series has been with a formula that works adding something that changes things so drastically have a high chance of disastrous results.

TL;DR I'm not against change, but it should be approached cautiously or we'll end up with a worse product regardless of the roster and such.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

Spoiler

-The Neutral B/Up+B/Down+B/Side+B formula. Why do all characters have to be restricted to just this simple formula of pressing a direction + special button to do a move? Seems some characters should be able to do more. I don't propose making this that different, but instead I'd give characters unique inputs for certain moves that only they would be able to do. For example, Kirby has a move in Kirby Super Star where inputting down, then up+attack with the Yoyo ability causes him to do a tricky top spin that sends him up and down in the air. I'd give Kirby this move, and others similar moves where appropriate, so they're not always limited to having only four special moves.
-Analog movement/"Tiptoeing". Why is it there? It doesn't seem to serve any purpose. During a normal match it's rare to see players making really tiny microadjustments with just pushing their stick a little to the left. Pressing the stick all the way left or right seems to immediately send you into a run anyways without even considering the analog movement and completely disregarding the double tap to run feature. I would just make it so that the movement is entirely digital, and also velocity/momentum based, so that characters can both accelerate and slow down with weight and velocity like in Mario or Sonic. Your speed would carry over into jumps and you'd be able to access new moves, like running jump aerials. It would play closer to a real platformer in this sense while still being obviously Smash.
-Enhanced specials. This borrows a bit from SF, but essentially what this does is make Cloud's limit break a universal mechanic. All characters would have a little meter under their portraits with two segments to it - whenever they have a full segment, they can perform an enhanced special move by pressing A+B+Direction (this would also get rid of the "easy smash attack" input that uses that same input, sorry). These specials would draw on all the benefits of the custom moves from Smash 4, for example DK's enhanced down+B would be his "hot slap" custom move where he causes these little flame pillars to come out. His enhanced side+B wouldn't be a headbutt at all, but instead he pulls out a barrel and plonks it down in front of him, and anyone within the sweetspot would be captured within the barrel which he can then attack with a fully charged punch or however he sees fit, unless they break free. If he doesn't capture the enemy he still leaves a barrel in front of him for him to use as a thrown item or a shield against projectiles.
-Underwater combat. The swimming mechanic seems to serve no purpose and only a few stages use it. I'd make it so that underwater stages could be possible and provide an interesting new flavor of combat where you can swim through the water, but still get spiked and be sent flying as normal. Swimming would operate how it does in Mario Bros, where pressing the jump button causes your character to paddle and ascend, but doing nothing causes them to descend. There could be stages that only temporarily go underwater and stages that are permanently underwater.

I love your idea for the Gazer Spiral! Make it like a secret anti-air technique for Kirby to catch people off guard. I don't know why people are against this since you said you're not replacing the B buttons. You're just giving characters more options other than A attacks and B attacks.

I also like your idea for enhanced specials and you deal damage to increase the meter to do a custom special move from Smash 4. Never really understood the point of the "easy smash attack" since it's way easier to just flick the right stick in the direction you want.

Underwater combat seems a bit situational and just makes me think of a floaty battle with multiple jumps.

Can this argument just end? Seriously it’s pointless we probably aren’t getting a smash 6 anyway, I’ll give you guys a trademarked Game Show With Plank as a distraction:
Who do you guys think are our most likely candidates for future dlc, you can do FP5, and the other 10 placeholders, all original fighters no echoes, but they have to be realistic.

Challenger Pack #5: Dante or Chris Redfield (with Leon, Jill and Claire alt costumes)

Additional DLC:
#1 Geno
#2 Doom Guy
#3 Crash Bandicoot
#4 Klonoa
#5 Sora
#6 Ryu Hayabusa
#7 Lloyd Irving
#8 Dante or Chris Redfield (with Leon, Jill and Claire alt costumes)
#9 Jin Kazama
#10 ...

Spoiler: Sgt. Cor-

 

[Curious Villager]

I mean, if they have to update Smash, perhaps take advantage of the more modern controllers and the extra buttons and options they have. or at least update the Gamecube controller if we have to stick with that. Why is there still no ZL button on that thing...?

 

[PsychoJosh]

1. OK sure. I don't like your slip 'n slide idea. The game was built around tight controls and I'd rather play that than slide off platforms, struggle to get back on stage, and then slide past the enemy I'm trying to hit. I just don't think it would be fun without removing the blast zones and implementing a sort of health system or something but by that point it's not a Smash game; It's something else entirely. That's not a bad thing, but when I want to play a smash game that's not what I think of.
2. I said character inputs could work for some characters, and that EX specials could work if implemented correctly. I just pointed out the pitfalls of not implementing them correctly, and sure I'm a little jaded on whether or not they'd be able to do so, but that's not the same thing as being against the ideas.
3. I'll place the extra attack button ideas in the "could work, but would severely negatively impact the game if implemented poorly". I'm not entirely sure what other distinct attacks an extra attack button would give. Smash Attacks? Those super armor attacks from Pokkén Tournament? The latter could be pretty cool actually.
4. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" is a saying for a reason. Oftentimes when trying to "fix" a working system you end up throwing everything into disarray. Sure everything can be improved and experimentation shouldn't be discouraged, but with how good the series has been with a formula that works adding something that changes things so drastically have a high chance of disastrous results.

TL;DR I'm not against change, but it should be approached cautiously or we'll end up with a worse product regardless of the roster and such.

Alright, fair enough. Thanks for clearing that up. I do think there's lots room for innovation in Smash and it's something I hope they could do in the next game. I think some of these ideas would be extremely cool if done well.

Anyways, here's my idea for the extra attack button (which would be Y): Tilts.

Now hear me out here. The A button does jabs. The Y button does tilts, and the B button does specials. But they would have new names. A button is light attack, Y button is strong attack, and B button is still special attack.

So how would this work? Well, with his system, you now have directional jabs. You can do rapid jabs, not just in front of you, but also above you. You can also do aerial jabs, with their own rapid versions. You can do neutral tilts. The current aerials would now be "aerial strongs" and the new ones would be "aerial jabs". You don't have to always necessarily attack the same way when following someone up in the air. If you want to just combo them without knocking them back you have that control now. You can just keep hitting them with aerial jabs and then combo that into an aerial tilt, or not, drag them down to the ground and continue your combo there. It would differ per character but each character has different things they could do.

So why would I do this? A, because combos are fun. This would make it easier to perform combos on people. And B, it would give them more control options for certain situations. It's hard to explain but there are moments in Smash ultimate where doing an inadvertent knockback puts both you and the opponent in an awkward situation and possibly hands your advantage over to them. This wouldn't happen anymore under this system.

I mean yeah, it requires some fleshing out but that's just the rough idea.

I love your idea for the Gazer Spiral! Make it like a secret anti-air technique for Kirby to catch people off guard. I don't know why people are against this since you said you're not replacing the B buttons. You're just giving characters more options other than A attacks and B attacks.

I also like your idea for enhanced specials and you deal damage to increase the meter to do a custom special move from Smash 4. Never really understood the point of the "easy smash attack" since it's way easier to just flick the right stick in the direction you want.

Underwater combat seems a bit situational and just makes me think of a floaty battle with multiple jumps.

[/SPOILER]

Thanks, I'm glad you like them.

The Gazer Spiral would be cool as an EX anti-air special, yeah. I picture that it could snatch characters out of the air and drag them down to the ground, and then combos directly into Kirby's forward smash.

 

[Will]

Now hear me out here. The A button does jabs. The Y button does tilts, and the B button does specials. But they would have new names. A button is light attack, Y button is strong attack, and B button is still special attack.

Just say you're changing Smash to traditional fighting controls at that point.

 

[UserKev]

As far as PsychoJosh's suggestion for specific inputs and whatever argument for keeping Smash's "traditional" sense, I'm actually neutral on either. I don't mind Smash staying mostly simple but more options on characters can be intriguing if they make sense.

I personally believe Kirby needs armor on some of his attacks.

 

[PsychoJosh]

Just say you're changing Smash to traditional fighting controls at that point.

6 buttons? Three punches and three kicks?

Pretty sure this is still a far cry from that, but I'm envisioning something closer to Power Stone which is a game made by Capcom that predates Smash.

I think everyone should check that game out because it's an awesome game. Anyways, I'd still keep the Smash fundamentals but just make it more arcadey and fast.

 

[Iko MattOrr]

So we already have a standalone DLC fighter (Pirahna Plant) and it seems increasingly likely we'll see another in future. But what about standalone stage DLC? Are there any games/franchises that would be popular enough to warrant standalone stages with music?

I think most people only really care about fighters so it's an interesting dynamic to think about. Are there places or games people would love to fight on rather than characters they'd want to fight as? Are there settings with fanbases rivaling BK or K. Rool that people would want to see updated?

I would prefer stage DLCs over Mii hats/costumes DLCs.
There are many locations I'd like to see a stage based on...
-Bowser's Castle
-Super Mario Land 2 island
-Clock Town
-Taltal Mountain
-Rhythm Heaven stage
-Kirby 64 stage (Ripple Star castle, pyramid, factory...)
-the Dreamstalk from Kirby Triple Deluxe
-A Sonic stage (Chemical Plant, Hydrocity, Radical Highway, Pumpkin Hill, Pyramid Cave/Sandopolis, Death Egg, Space Colony Ark, Tropical Resort, Aquarium Park, Metropolis-Forces, Special Stage, Studiopolis, Angel Island/jungle or emerald altar, Casinopolis, Scrap Brain, Rooftop Run, and many other super iconic places that would be awesome in Smash)

etc...

Actually, stand alone stages as DLCs would be awesome.

-The Neutral B/Up+B/Down+B/Side+B formula. Why do all characters have to be restricted to just this simple formula of pressing a direction + special button to do a move? Seems some characters should be able to do more. I don't propose making this that different, but instead I'd give characters unique inputs for certain moves that only they would be able to do. For example, Kirby has a move in Kirby Super Star where inputting down, then up+attack with the Yoyo ability causes him to do a tricky top spin that sends him up and down in the air. I'd give Kirby this move, and others similar moves where appropriate, so they're not always limited to having only four special moves.
-Analog movement/"Tiptoeing". Why is it there? It doesn't seem to serve any purpose. During a normal match it's rare to see players making really tiny microadjustments with just pushing their stick a little to the left. Pressing the stick all the way left or right seems to immediately send you into a run anyways without even considering the analog movement and completely disregarding the double tap to run feature. I would just make it so that the movement is entirely digital, and also velocity/momentum based, so that characters can both accelerate and slow down with weight and velocity like in Mario or Sonic. Your speed would carry over into jumps and you'd be able to access new moves, like running jump aerials. It would play closer to a real platformer in this sense while still being obviously Smash.
-Enhanced specials. This borrows a bit from SF, but essentially what this does is make Cloud's limit break a universal mechanic. All characters would have a little meter under their portraits with two segments to it - whenever they have a full segment, they can perform an enhanced special move by pressing A+B+Direction (this would also get rid of the "easy smash attack" input that uses that same input, sorry). These specials would draw on all the benefits of the custom moves from Smash 4, for example DK's enhanced down+B would be his "hot slap" custom move where he causes these little flame pillars to come out. His enhanced side+B wouldn't be a headbutt at all, but instead he pulls out a barrel and plonks it down in front of him, and anyone within the sweetspot would be captured within the barrel which he can then attack with a fully charged punch or however he sees fit, unless they break free. If he doesn't capture the enemy he still leaves a barrel in front of him for him to use as a thrown item or a shield against projectiles.
-Underwater combat. The swimming mechanic seems to serve no purpose and only a few stages use it. I'd make it so that underwater stages could be possible and provide an interesting new flavor of combat where you can swim through the water, but still get spiked and be sent flying as normal. Swimming would operate how it does in Mario Bros, where pressing the jump button causes your character to paddle and ascend, but doing nothing causes them to descend. There could be stages that only temporarily go underwater and stages that are permanently underwater.

I agree with you that Smash needs some innovation in the core gameplay because it's getting stale, and I would even accept huge cuts (along with no new characters, included my most wanted) as long as the gameplay is improved/revamped.

-About specials, I like the idea of giving more depth to the input of the specials, but I don't like having character specific input combos. In fact, I prefer the Dream Land/Adventure gameplay of Kirby over the Superstar-inspired one because I prefer a simple, intuitive and standardized input structure over having to read 3 pages of tutorial in order to learn all the hidden moves of the Fighter ability (just an example). In fact, I think that Kirby Amazing Mirror was a good middle ground where some abilities had a decent amount of different moves but they were all simple to activate and didn't need reading the pause screen. Back to Smash, I like how the movesets are standard, you learn the basic controls and you can pick up any character without big problems; so I wouldn't change that. Though, I would definitely add some more uses of the special button, like Inkling uses it to charge the ink while shielding. Using the special button during grabs to charge a bigger punch sound like a fun idea and doesn't require cryptic character-specific combinations of keys (simple or not); it would just incentivate experimenting with the special button during different status (shielding, charging, grabbing/grabbed, on ledge, etc). It's just a button, easy, intuitive, that's ok IMO.

-I agree about analog movements, and I would add that jump should be changed too: instead of having 2 jumps (low jump and high jump), have a jump that can be adjusted depending on the amount of time you hold the button. Still speaking of Kirby, Kirby Fighters is a smash-inspired game that uses this type of jump, and it has never been a problem for nobody, so I suppose it would work just fine. It would make the fight less about timing and more about positioning, giving more freedom to the player and adding a layer of variables that would allow for more mind tricks and variety in the strategy. I would also gladly accept momentum-based physics, both for basic movements and knockback (instead of having fixed angles for each move/hitbox, let the knockback react dynamically depending on the vectors applied to the character's body). This way the physics would become way more complex, but it would add a big amount of additional depth to the game... depth that simulates real world physics, so depth accessible to everyone, because if a gameplay element is natural, you don't need to learn it, you already know it from your experience in real world.

-I'm not a big fan of enhanced specials with a meter a la Street Fighter, but as I said before, I like the idea of adding more interaction with the special button during different status (such as charging a punch while grabbing only for Donkey Kong that was mentioned earlier in the thread).

-Underwater combat is a good idea, but I wouldn't do it like in Super Mario Bros... it would be very frustrating to wait your character to slowly descend... Brawl was criticized for being floaty, and underwater combat like this would be like regular fighting with infinite jumps and a super floaty environment. I'd rather let the characters swim up and down by pressing up and down, (once again to continue the parallel with Kirby) just like swimming in Kirby games. Underwater moveset should be more limited, but depending on the character, some should have more mobility and more moves. I'm not usre it would be a good idea to make full-underwater stages, because some characters are supposed to not be able to swim, or get damaged by water, so it wouldn't make sense to force them underwater. Also, if characters have big differences in their underwater skills, it would be a hell to balance, and each character should be balanced twice, once for regular game and once for the underwater gameplay. Having some underwater sections in some stage is totally fine IMO.

Stuff that I would add:
-Terry's stage has the wall mechanics. I would add something like this to every stage, this way you can't cheap KO people at the side of Mushroom Kingdom II with some grabbing move or stuff like that, unless the opponent is 100% or over. It would also be cool if more game elements were based on the 100% mechanics, similar to how the Great Cave Offensive stage can kill you with lava only over 100%. More stage elements should interact differently with characters who are over 100% IMO (maybe buildings that break only if you are thrown into them at 100%+), and this would also finally give a real meaning to the percentage.

-Parry: I would completely remove all the counter attacks from characters who have a counter attack (unless is some very iconic move of a specific character), and replace it with the parry mechanics that would be accessible for every character. Parry would activate by releasing the shield in the exact moment an opponent is hitting you with a physical attack (no projectiles) or during an attempt to grab you. Parry wouldn't automatically start an attack for you, it would just stun the opponent for a fraction of second to give you a chance to attack and eventually start a combo.

-Charging neutral moves: Not every move, but a decent amount of neutral moves should be able to charge depending of the time you hold the attack button, like Smash moves. The attacks that can be charged would start on release instead of on press, and become more powerful (but slower) the more you hold them. Charged neutrals would still be pretty fast anyway, the amount of charge possible would be minimal, still a fraction of second (if you charge for more than the maximum time, the attack would release automatically), just to give the player the option to fight DPS or damage dealing but slower. For some specific characters, even unconventional moves such as dash attack or throws could be charged.

There is probably more but this is all what came to mind for now.

 

[Troykv]

That sounds so cool! Robin never satisfied my desire for a magic user fully, so Micaiah sounds like just the kinda character I'd love.

Yes! I fully agree.

She's a light mage right?

Yup, she is the light mage of Fire Emblem.

 

[Deleted member]

I'll just leave this here

Yo can we just canonically change Mario's name to Larry?

 

[PsychoJosh]

-I'm not a big fan of enhanced specials with a meter a la Street Fighter, but as I said before, I like the idea of adding more interaction with the special button during different status (such as charging a punch while grabbing only for Donkey Kong that was mentioned earlier in the thread).

Depending on the character, some EX specials would be completely different from their normal counterparts, but very useful and make up for shortcomings in their base moveset, like the Kong Barrel EX side special for DK that I suggested earlier. This would also be a way of adding more stuff from their home games. Samus's EX morph ball could combine attributes of the spider and boost ball, allowing her to roll up walls and tackle enemies. Her super missile would no longer need to be a smash input but instead be a powered up special missile that does more damage and knockback. Banjo's EX Up+B could be a flight pad instead of a shock spring, sending him up much higher and allowing him to fly for a short time.

 

[Iko MattOrr]

Depending on the character, some EX specials would be completely different from their normal counterparts, but very useful and make up for shortcomings in their base moveset, like the Kong Barrel EX side special for DK that I suggested earlier. This would also be a way of adding more stuff from their home games. Samus's EX morph ball could combine attributes of the spider and boost ball, allowing her to roll up walls and tackle enemies. Her super missile would no longer need to be a smash input but instead be a powered up special missile that does more damage and knockback. Banjo's EX Up+B could be a flight pad instead of a shock spring, sending him up much higher and allowing him to fly for a short time.

I have to see it in practice, I don't know... So far I'm allergic to charging gauges in fighting games (and this is the main reason why I prefer Smash over the traditional fighting games, along with those complex combinations of input to learn), but maybe something simple and standardized can work... the only problem I see is how do I choose between regular and EX specials if I have the meter filled up and I don't want to use it? Adding more buttons into the mix is probably not a good idea IMO.
Having Kirby use more abilities in his moveset would be cool... Wheel Kirby for side EX would be great, or Hypernova for EX inhale.

 

[PsychoJosh]

I have to see it in practice, I don't know... So far I'm allergic to charging gauges in fighting games (and this is the main reason why I prefer Smash over the traditional fighting games, along with those complex combinations of input to learn), but maybe something simple and standardized can work... the only problem I see is how do I choose between regular and EX specials if I have the meter filled up and I don't want to use it? Adding more buttons into the mix is probably not a good idea IMO.
Having Kirby use more abilities in his moveset would be cool... Wheel Kirby for side EX would be great, or Hypernova for EX inhale.

Like I said, EX moves would be performed by pressing A+B+direction simultaneously. It would overwrite the existing "easy smash attack" input. So you could decide to use it any time you wanted, maybe save your meter for a sticky situation. If you just wanted to use the normal special you just press B like normal. Want to use the EX, press A+B instead.

This mechanic is adopted wholesale from Street Fighter but I really like it. You can decide on the fly whether to spend the meter for a risk and reward or save it for when you really need it.

 

[Iko MattOrr]

Like I said, EX moves would be performed by pressing A+B+direction simultaneously. It would overwrite the existing "easy smash attack" input. So you could decide to use it any time you wanted, maybe save your meter for a sticky situation. If you just wanted to use the normal special you just press B like normal. Want to use the EX, press A+B instead.

This mechanic is adopted wholesale from Street Fighter but I really like it. You can decide on the fly whether to spend the meter for a risk and reward or save it for when you really need it.

My bad, I missed that part, sorry.
A+B should be fine.

 

[MooMew64]

TBH complicating Smash's core design philosophy with random mechanics from other games is the very definition of fixing something that ain't broken, which leads to what's been happening to our resident blue hedgehog for the last 15 years or so.

Throwing in random mechanics simply for just the sake of it does nothing but mess with a formula that is as popular as it is for its simplicity and accessibility. The second you start messing with that, you start to alienate the side of the Smash fandom that is bigger than our core one by 10-1. Smash didn't become the best selling fighting game because the FGC is that huge a deal; it is largely in part due to its casual appeal and accessibility compared to other fighting games.

 

[AceAttorney9000]

So we already have a standalone DLC fighter (Pirahna Plant) and it seems increasingly likely we'll see another in future. But what about standalone stage DLC? Are there any games/franchises that would be popular enough to warrant standalone stages with music?

I think most people only really care about fighters so it's an interesting dynamic to think about. Are there places or games people would love to fight on rather than characters they'd want to fight as? Are there settings with fanbases rivaling BK or K. Rool that people would want to see updated?

Whenever the idea of Minecraft content is Smash Bros. is brought up, I've always maintained that the series would be better represented with just a stage, instead of having Steve as a playable character. Partially because I don't know how Steve could be implemented as playable (Sakurai could probably squeeze a fun moveset out, but personally, I think Steve is better suited as a Sans-esque Mii Swordfighter costume), but also because Minecraft is a game where the general focus is on the environment, building and destroying stuff, instead of on any specific characters. I think a Minecraft stage where you can destroy parts of the ground would be pretty cool.

Also, if this includes series that are already represented in Smash, I'd love a Sonic stage based on the final battle of Sonic Adventure. Station Square, everything is flooded and destroyed, and Perfect Chaos shows up as a stage boss and tries to blast all the fighters off the stage. It would also be the perfect opportunity to get more Sonic Adventure music into Smash, with Azure Blue World, Windy and Ripply, Pleasure Castle, Twinkle Circuit, Run Through the Speed Highway, Blue Star, Dilapidated Way, The Air, and Tricky Maze all being essential in my opinion.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Whenever the idea of Minecraft content is Smash Bros. is brought up, I've always maintained that the series would be better represented with just a stage, instead of having Steve as a playable character. Partially because I don't know how Steve could be implemented as playable (Sakurai could probably squeeze a fun moveset out, but personally, I think Steve is better suited as a Sans-esque Mii Swordfighter costume), but also because Minecraft is a game where the general focus is on the environment, building and destroying stuff, instead of on any specific characters. I think a Minecraft stage where you can destroy parts of the ground would be pretty cool.

The game has a focus on what the player can do while also having some focus on the player customizing themself, having Steve and Alex as the default skins/characters and mascots, treating them/the player as an important part of the world, too. There’s plenty of stuff that can be used for a full moveset for Steve, like:

-Sword, axe, pickaxe, shovel, hoe
-Bow, crossbow
-Crafting (in a balanced form, i.e. temporary armor and tool upgrades, need resources that opponents or blocks could drop when attacked)
-Building (in a balanced form, i.e. blocks can be destroyed, disappear after a set time, limited amount you can have on the stage)
-Anvils
-TNT
-Pistons
-Chest
-Minecart, minecart with TNT, etc.
-Ender pearls
-Elytra, firework rocket
-Potions, splash potions, lingering potions
-Spawn eggs
-Enchantments
-Trident
-a lot more

 

[Guybrush20X6]

I still think that there's potential for Nitnendo crossovers outside of Smash indeed there's alreayd multiple Nintedo characters in Mario Kart and Nintendo land was a cute idea.

Thing is tho, only Smash can get ALL of Nintendo on board. Kirby, Fire Emblem and especially Pokemon all need approval of other companies.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I mean, to be fair I don't think many people in my neighborhood would recognize over half the characters that get thrown around here, that's not a very good metric for recognizability lol.

Half the people in my neighborhood don't even recognize ME.

I still think that there's potential for Nitnendo crossovers outside of Smash indeed there's alreayd multiple Nintedo characters in Mario Kart and Nintendo land was a cute idea.

Give me that Super Smash Karts!

Since characters in Mario Kart don't have individual movesets, you can put, like, 200 characters in that game so easily!

 

[Deleted member]

Sakurai said it better:

What matters is that a character is fun to play as, not how well-known it is.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Sakurai said it better:

What matters is that a character is fun to play as, not how well-known it is.

Not what he said, and edited in a way that completely changes the actual meaning...

 

[Deleted member]

Not what he said, and edited in a way that completely changes the actual meaning...

That's basically what I said.

 

[Iko MattOrr]

TBH complicating Smash's core design philosophy with random mechanics from other games is the very definition of fixing something that ain't broken, which leads to what's been happening to our resident blue hedgehog for the last 15 years or so.

Throwing in random mechanics simply for just the sake of it does nothing but mess with a formula that is as popular as it is for its simplicity and accessibility. The second you start messing with that, you start to alienate the side of the Smash fandom that is bigger than our core one by 10-1. Smash didn't become the best selling fighting game because the FGC is that huge a deal; it is largely in part due to its casual appeal and accessibility compared to other fighting games.

While I partially agree with this (casual appeal and accessibility of Smash), I think that innovating an already successful franchise is not necessarily a bad thing.
You mentioned Sonic, ok, but at the same time Mario and Zelda innovated themselves multiple times and have been successful most of the times, so that's not really a good example IMO.

Speaking of mechanics, if you are refering to the EX moves we were discussing before, well, I'm not completely sold on them either, but I'm not even against it. Instead of adding them to the main game, I would rather implement them only in matches with the final smash meter on. In that case, it wouldn't be a completely new gimmick, but an enhancement of an existing one: you charge the final smash meter regularly: if you fill it completely, you get a final smash, while if you use the "EX moves", you consume it each time and slow down the process of getting the final smash; maybe let mini smashballs spawn during the match along with the big ones to charge partially or fully the bar faster. IMO it's not that bad for a separate mode.

 

[Troykv]

That's basically what I said.

The difference is how you completely removed the recognizability out of the window; he said a character being fun to play is more important, but having a character that is know to be loved for many is also important, just not as much.

So don't expect random OCs