Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Ben Holt]

I agree! I don't think I've ever said that Japan is overlooked in any way. I simply find it interesting how the pendulum has swung so far back towards the West with SSB4 and SSBU.

I don't think that the pendulum swung too much.
Doom Slayer would definitely be a Western pick, but I wouldn't consider it bias in favor of the West until we get newcomer after newcomer of primarily Western characters with little to no presence in Japan, like Fire Emblem and Mother 3 during the Melee/Brawl era.
Hell, even Corrin was announced for Smash before even RELEASING in the West.

 

[TheAJJohnson]

If we can get faces such as Ridley, Little Mac, and Banjo, Japan should get it's share of characters more favored over there. It's only fair, as long as they're not exclusive to that country or something.

Only 4 characters in the roster were created outside of Japan, and only one of them is American in origin. I know that you're talking about characters people want (because some Japanese characters do appeal more to a US market than their own), but they've got their fair share of "made in Japan" characters, don't you think? Doomguy, Rayman, Crash, Dovahkiin, Spyro, Scorpion, Sub-Zero, Ezio, Steve, Shovel Knight, Shantae, Lara Croft, Kerrigan, Tracer...how about we get some playable western representation? Don't get me wrong, Japan has some of the best characters in gaming, but some of the ones listed above aren't too shabby.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I agree! I don't think I've ever said that Japan is overlooked in any way. I simply find it interesting how the pendulum has swung so far back towards the West with SSB4 and SSBU.

To be fair, the majority of the choices that are known unanimously worldwide have already been chosen. The few that remain are like Assassin's Creed, Tomb Raider, and Kingdom Hearts.

 

[Deleted member]

I don't think that the pendulum swung too much.
Doom Slayer would definitely be a Western pick, but I wouldn't consider it bias in favor of the West until we get newcomer after newcomer of primarily Western characters with little to no presence in Japan, like Fire Emblem and Mother 3 during the Melee/Brawl era.
Hell, even Corrin was announced for Smash before even RELEASING in the West.

And this is why I kinda feel bad about Western people demanding to get their characters in a Japanese game.

Anyway, while you peeps are talking about catering to both the East and West, here's a meme I made for the Touhou community to use:

 

[Will]

Only 4 characters in the roster were created outside of Japan, and only one of them is American in origin. I know that you're talking about characters people want (because some Japanese characters do appeal more to a US market than their own), but they've got their fair share of Japan-created characters, don't you think? Doomguy, Rayman, Crash, Dovahkiin, Spyro, Scorpion, Sub-Zero, Ezio, Steve, Shovel Knight, Shantae, Lara Croft, Kerrigan, Tracer...how about we get some playable western representation?

I'm in support of more western characters, but I don't think getting in a rage at the thought of other Japanese-created characters is a healthy solution. For characters such as Reimu, whos series is a popular innovator of bullet hell genre of games, I feel she's as important to video games as someone like Doom Guy or Steve.

 

[TheAJJohnson]

I'm in support of more western characters, but I don't think getting in a rage at the thought of other Japanese-created characters is a healthy solution. For characters such as Reimu, whos series is a popular innovator of bullet hell genre of games, I feel she's as important to video games as someone like Doom Guy or Steve.

I agree about the rage part. People should chill.
However, I would disagree about the level of importance compared to Steve and Doomguy.

 

[SneakyLink]

And this is why I kinda feel bad about Western people demanding to get their characters in a Japanese game.

Anyway, while you peeps are talking about catering to both the East and West, here's a meme I made for the Touhou community to use:

View attachment 246266

...aaaaannnnddd saved and shared to a Reimu Discord server.

 

[TheTuninator]

I don't think that the pendulum swung too much.
Doom Slayer would definitely be a Western pick, but I wouldn't consider it bias in favor of the West until we get newcomer after newcomer of primarily Western characters with little to no presence in Japan, like Fire Emblem and Mother 3 during the Melee/Brawl era.
Hell, even Corrin was announced for Smash before even RELEASING in the West.

Corrin wasn't a JP-centric release as Awakening's tremendous Western success gave Nintendo every reason to believe that Fates would have strong Western demand. I think we actually have gotten more Western-centric reps than Japan-centric reps at this point. It's Marth & Roy, Lucas, and Hero versus Banjo, Ridley, K. Rool (my impression was that he was much more heavily requested in the West, but someone who actually knows DK please correct me if I'm wrong), Dark Samus, and Mac.

 

[Ben Holt]

Only 4 characters in the roster were created outside of Japan, and only one of them is American in origin. I know that you're talking about characters people want (because some Japanese characters do appeal more to a US market than their own), but they've got their fair share of Japan-created characters, don't you think? Doomguy, Rayman, Crash, Dovahkiin, Spyro, Scorpion, Sub-Zero, Ezio, Steve, Shovel Knight, Shantae, Lara Croft, Kerrigan, Tracer...how about we get some playable western representation?

Every single one of these are excellent choices.
@Lesley Black Velvet Here are your females!

 

[TheTuninator]

I'm in support of more western characters, but I don't think getting in a rage at the thought of other Japanese-created characters is a healthy solution. For characters such as Reimu, whos series is a popular innovator of bullet hell genre of games, I feel she's as important to video games as someone like Doom Guy or Steve.

I'm a huge Touhou fan, but I wouldn't want to put the series on the same level as truly iconic and genre-defining ones like DOOM or Minecraft. Series like that are a league apart.

 

[Deleted member]

Every single one of these are excellent choices.
@Lesley Black Velvet Here are your females!

Noted.

I'll just send my meme to the Reimu thread...

 

[Will]

I'm a huge Touhou fan, but I wouldn't want to put the series on the same level as truly iconic and genre-defining ones like DOOM or Minecraft. Series like that are a league apart.

It's a subjective thought I had, thinking in the mindset of genres and not games in general. Bullet hells, FPS, sandbox, that stuff.

 

[Ben Holt]

Well, apparently Smash Bros. has another private video.
Someone did the math, and it seems like it would release near the end of this month.
So if it's not going to be revealed at TGA, I think that means we're getting TWO reveals relatively close together, which makes sense since the last time we had a character released without the next one revealed was with Joker, and we got a double reveal at E3.
My guess is that we get Fighter 5 in a late November Nintendo Direct, and at TGA, we get someone HUGE like Crash Bandicoot to start up Fighter's Pass 2.

 

[Deleted member]

Well, apparently Smash Bros. has another private video.
Someone did the math, and it seems like it would release near the end of this month.
So if it's not going to be revealed at TGA, I think that means we're getting TWO reveals relatively close together, which makes sense since the last time we had a character released without the next one revealed was with Joker, and we got a double reveal at E3.
My guess is that we get Fighter 5 in a late November Nintendo Direct, and at TGA, we get someone HUGE like Crash Bandicoot to start up Fighter's Pass 2.

That's literally what I was thinking the other time. We're getting a minor reveal for FP5 (Reimu, KOS-MOS) while we get a major reveal at the Game Awards (Doomguy, Chief, Crash, etc)

 

[perfectchaos83]

I still heavily doubt a reveal at the Game awards.

 

[GKMLTTSB]

There are several Western characters I'd like to see, but almost none of them seem remotely plausible, so that sucks...

Of the Western characters that do feel plausible, there are a couple where I'd go, "Yeah, I get it. Legacy and significance checks out," but I can't say there's much I'd be legitimately excited for. A few could spark some decent conversations, at least, but others, not so much. :-/

 

[Droodle]

Nah he doesn’t add whoever he wants. Let’s put it plain and simple for the whole world to see.


There are three reasons a character makes it into smash.

1) it’s a dear franchise/creator/character to sakurai.

2) it has massive fan request.

3) it’s advertisement for a game/character for Nintendo or a collaborating company with Nintendo which only generally happens because they want to advertise that series for the future.

All characters are essentially decided be these 3 criteria, then there are subdivisions in this criteria like does the company have a rep? And so forth.


Reimu isn’t massively fan requested, she doesn’t qualify there, there is no relation to Nintendo at all, and a big part of her popularity is just grass roots fan made stuff, there isn’t much reason for Nintendo to pick her on this criteria.


You are relying solely on the first option, to say maybe sakurai holds something dear about her series? Is there anything about her from sakurai? I asked for evidence that bullet hell is even one of his favorite genre and you ignored me. That isn’t even strong evidence that he likes touhou anyways. You guys are reaching hard.


Also you’re speaking to someone who probably knows more about Japanese culture than you. Touhou is still niche there. Kosmos isn’t popular there either.

Touhou is nowhere near niche in Japan. I'm sorry but if you think Touhou is niche, you probably don't know Japan very well. Touhou has multiple fan conventions every year, and TONS of doujin content. For the longest time Touhou was #1 in terms of doujin content in Japan, and only RECENTLY has it been surpassed by FATE; and if you argue that FATE of all franchises is niche, oh boy do I have a lot to tell you.

And I never stated KOS-MOS was overly popular there, all I stated was KOS-MOS is much more popular in Japan compared to the US. The amount of Japan only figurines she has proves that.

For Reimu: Sakurai does like Bullet-hell, sure he may not like Touhou specifically but I doubt he hasn't heard of it. Someone else posted the evidence before me; also Touhou games are coming to the switch in the future.

For KOS-MOS: While Sakurai hasn't stated anything in regards to Xenosaga, he did say a ton of positive things about Monolith-Soft, and how much they've helped out Nintendo in their bigger games. Sakurai did state he loves Xenoblade 2, and KOS-MOS does have a rare but major cameo in there. Now you may say that it bodes well for Rex and Pyra's chances, but what if Monolith-Soft specifically asked for KOS-MOS in Smash? They clearly see her very fondly with her still being the "face" of Monolith-Soft over characters like Shulk, and Rex.

 

[Ben Holt]

I still heavily doubt a reveal at the Game awards.

I wouldn't say "heavily doubt", but it's certainly not guaranteed like an E3 reveal.
I give it a 60/40 in favor of a TGA reveal with cautious optimism.

 

[AntagonisticGalaxyCetacea]

With all the talk about KOS-MOS and Reimu, we all know Sakurai's gonna add Koopa Troopa as the 5th character anyway

 

[SneakyLink]

With all the talk about KOS-MOS and Reimu, we all know Sakurai's gonna add Koopa Troopa as the 5th character anyway

Still waiting on ? Block as our final pass fighter.

 

[Deleted member]

I still heavily doubt a reveal at the Game awards.

Well, there's the term, "we don't fall for the same trick twice".

Imagine going to a momentous awarding ceremony for video games and all you see in the Twitch chat are people ganged up for Smash. It's pretty embarassing to see for such an event.

Touhou is nowhere near niche in Japan. I'm sorry but if you think Touhou is niche, you probably don't know Japan very well. Touhou has multiple fan conventions every year, and TONS of doujin content. For the longest time Touhou was #1 in terms of doujin content in Japan, and only RECENTLY has it been surpassed by FATE; and if you argue that FATE of all franchises is niche, oh boy do I have a lot to tell you.

And I never stated KOS-MOS was overly popular there, all I stated was KOS-MOS is much more popular in Japan compared to the US. The amount of Japan only figurines she has proves that.

For Reimu: Sakurai does like Bullet-hell, sure he may not like Touhou specifically but I doubt he hasn't heard of it. Someone else posted the evidence before me; also Touhou games are coming to the switch in the future.

For KOS-MOS: While Sakurai hasn't stated anything in regards to Xenosaga, he did say a ton of positive things about Monolith-Soft, and how much they've helped out Nintendo in their bigger games. Sakurai did state he loves Xenoblade 2, and KOS-MOS does have a rare but major cameo in there. Now you may say that it bodes well for Rex and Pyra's chances, but what if Monolith-Soft specifically asked for KOS-MOS in Smash? They clearly see her very fondly with her still being the "face" of Monolith-Soft over characters like Shulk, and Rex.

Touhou is a tour de force there, so I kind of see that happening imminently, especially with the support she has gained recently. Same with FATE.

With all the talk about KOS-MOS and Reimu, we all know Sakurai's gonna add Koopa Troopa as the 5th character anyway

lmao more leaning to him as the free DLC character a la Plant.

 

[Droodle]

With all the talk about KOS-MOS and Reimu, we all know Sakurai's gonna add Koopa Troopa as the 5th character anyway

I've stated this before, but the truly world-ending reveal would be a Goomba riding a Koopa-Troopa.

 

[perfectchaos83]

Well, there's the term, "we don't fall for the same trick twice".

Imagine going to a momentous awarding ceremony for video games and all you see in the Twitch chat are people ganged up for Smash. It's pretty embarassing to see for such an event.

Smash fans do that anyway regardless and, imo, it's hilarious.

 

[Ben Holt]

With all the talk about KOS-MOS and Reimu, we all know Sakurai's gonna add Koopa Troopa as the 5th character anyway

Dry Bones or bust.
But after more thinking, I am now leaning towards a new character for Fighter 5...
Tracer.
She is a gunner, which fits my variety theory.
She is commonly depicted with an orange motif, so she fits color theory.
Blizzard has openly said that Nintendo can use any Overwatch character for Smash.
She's female, so Lesley like fans are happy.
And she's a huge character, not niche at all.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

That's literally what I was thinking the other time. We're getting a minor reveal for FP5 (Reimu, KOS-MOS) while we get a major reveal at the Game Awards (Doomguy, Chief, Crash, etc)

I still think it's possible we get a Direct this month and that does become the case but I also don't see two reveals for Smash at The Game Awards so if we do get FP5 at The Game Awards, we probably won't get a look at who's after till their release date.

 

[Deleted member]

Smash fans do that anyway regardless and, imo, it's hilarious.

This is one of the reasons I rarely read Twitch chat anyway. Last time I did that was at EVO 2019 before the battles even started. Everyone in the caht was clamoring for Minecraft Steve and I was like, "bruh, really right now?"

 

[SneakyLink]

Smash fans do that anyway regardless and, imo, it's hilarious.

There were literally people expecting Banjo and Kazooie to be revealed during X018.

A new Banjo game? Ok I could see where they were going (nothing got revealed Banjo wise). Banjo in a game on a competing system to Xbox being revealed during an Xbox centric event? Not even if Sakurai himself attended!

 

[GKMLTTSB]

I've stated this before, but the truly world-ending reveal would be a Goomba riding a Koopa-Troopa.

In honor of the meme, it's literal Hat Goomba from Odyssey.

I shouldn't even joke about that...

 

[TheTuninator]

I think Tracer would be very hard to implement in Smash, as her core mechanics (constant gun spam and blinking/recall) seem really awkward for a platform fighting game. If we got an OW character I guess it'd have to be her, but Reinhardt is the best-suited to Smash out of the core OW "iconics" by quite some bit.

 

[Deleted member]

She's female, so Lesley like fans are happy.

lmao my fanbase should be called Snipers from now on.

I think Tracer would be very hard to implement in Smash, as her core mechanics (constant gun spam and blinking/recall) seem really awkward for a platform fighting game. If we got an OW character I guess it'd have to be her, but Reinhardt is the best-suited to Smash out of the core OW "iconics" by quite some bit.

Could you imagine what the Smash Ultimate reddit thread was like during that stuff? They said they should keep Tracer out of Smash, and they even said that it would be hard to make a moveset for her, yet look at what they did for G&W, ROB, or Duck Hunt!

 

[Icedragonadam]

I really don't think there's going to be a Smash Reveal at this year's game awards, Nintendo only brings one game announcement there and there's a major game coming out in 2020 that Nintendo would likely prioritize more than a year old game, and we still don't have anything new from it.

Spoiler

That game with that Princess and Zelda.

 

[Ben Holt]

I think Tracer would be very hard to implement in Smash, as her core mechanics (constant gun spam and blinking/recall) seem really awkward for a platform fighting game. If we got an OW character I guess it'd have to be her, but Reinhardt is the best-suited to Smash out of the core OW "iconics" by quite some bit.

Smash so far has always gone with the de facto mascot of a series as its first rep.
Even once in an interview, Sakurai stated that Lloyd was the only choice for a Tales rep.

 

[perfectchaos83]

I think Tracer would be very hard to implement in Smash, as her core mechanics (constant gun spam and blinking/recall) seem really awkward for a platform fighting game. If we got an OW character I guess it'd have to be her, but Reinhardt is the best-suited to Smash out of the core OW "iconics" by quite some bit.

Reinhardt was my OW main and I approve this message.

 

[Droodle]

I think Tracer would be very hard to implement in Smash, as her core mechanics (constant gun spam and blinking/recall) seem really awkward for a platform fighting game. If we got an OW character I guess it'd have to be her, but Reinhardt is the best-suited to Smash out of the core OW "iconics" by quite some bit.

If Tracer gets in, I would stop playing Smash. Not because I hate Tracer or I hate Overwatch, but the addition of Tracer and Genji ruined HOTS for me. Those characters could never keep still, and could follow you pretty much anywhere on the map.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I think Tracer would be very hard to implement in Smash, as her core mechanics (constant gun spam and blinking/recall) seem really awkward for a platform fighting game. If we got an OW character I guess it'd have to be her, but Reinhardt is the best-suited to Smash out of the core OW "iconics" by quite some bit.

If we get a Blizzard character it had better be the Lich King.

Take a gander at this ****ing bad ass.

Spoiler

 

[SneakyLink]

If we get a Blizzard character it had better be the Lich King.

Take a gander at this ****ing bad ass.

Spoiler

Sees a sword
Smash fan base: Great another anime sword fighter...
That’s how I imagine some would react

Note: Who’s the Lich King?

 

[TheTuninator]

Smash so far has always gone with the de facto mascot of a series as its first rep.
Even once in an interview, Sakurai stated that Lloyd was the only choice for a Tales rep.

Yeah, that's why I guess it'd have to be her, but she feels like such an awkward fit for Smash. Rein's moveset practically makes itself; hammer normals, shield on B, charge side-b, flame shot down-B. Just fits the gameplay so much better.

 

[Ben Holt]

lmao my fanbase should be called Snipers from now on.



Could you imagine what the Smash Ultimate reddit thread was like during that stuff? They said they should keep Tracer out of Smash, and they even said that it would be hard to make a moveset for her, yet look at what they did for G&W, ROB, or Duck Hunt!

And Fox, Pac-Man, Villager, and Captain Falcon.
That's one reason I think Heihachi is guaranteed in the future. Sakurai outright said that Heihachi was considered for Smash 4 but they couldn't come up with a moveset.
That's child's play compared to these boys.

 

[GKMLTTSB]

If we get a Blizzard character it had better be the Lich King.

Take a gander at this ****ing bad ass.

At this point, if it were a Warcraft character, I refuse to believe it would be anyone but Sylvanas.

And she'd be broken as Hell, and make everyone angry.

 

[Droodle]

Smash so far has always gone with the de facto mascot of a series as its first rep.
Even once in an interview, Sakurai stated that Lloyd was the only choice for a Tales rep.

Lloyd isn't anywhere close to the face of Tales. I'm pretty sure the only reason Lloyd would get in is because the Smash fanbase really likes him for some reason. Yuri is seen as the face of Tales in Japan.

If we get a Blizzard character it had better be the Lich King.

Take a gander at this ****ing bad ass.

Spoiler

Granted, but you get Bolvar instead. Enjoy.