Newbie Mafia 7! Canceled!

[Isuyaru]

@Mod: I unvoted in post #160.

Why ask Daedalus?

If you were more interested in seeing the question answered to get another opinion in, you would've asked someone who's active.

If you were interested in just seeing Daedalus post at all, you wouldn't have needed to ask something so specific. Just something like "@Mod: Could he be prodded?" would've sufficed.

So it smells of ulterior motive to me.

I asked Daedalus because I wanted both inactives to have something to answer, and Cello had already asked Writer Kupo a question. The particular question that I asked didn't matter to me much, which is why when X1-12 replaced Daedalus, I didn't pursue an answer to the old question and instead asked him a different (and in my opinion, more relevant) question.

Anything else I would respond with would pretty much be confirming what Cello said regarding my motives.

 

[Purple]

ITT: Mod ****s up a lot

Who will survive...​

Votes​

Cello_Marl ($$)*The_Guide, Riddle
Vult Redux ()*
Mayling ()*
The_Guide ($$$) *Mayling, Swiss, Vult_redux
X1-12 ($)*Cello_marl
Isuyaru()*
Swiss ()*
Riddle () *
Writer Kupo () *​

Not Voting:Writer Kupo, x1-12, Isuyar($$$)​

It takes 5/9 to eliminate a player.
Deadline: 06/18/10 8:00pm EST​

...the liar game.​

 

[Cello_Marl]

@X1-12: As much as you claim to not have an opinion on The_Guide, you sure have been willing to take up his cause in response to Vult's inquiries, offering suggestions that his behavior is perfectly natural, and offering excuses for his actions.

FAIRLY LEGIT - one post after I was asked about it. Did you skim that bit? how ironic. I never used the word legit without 'fairly' infront of it

You're right, my bad. Fortunately, calling you "wishy-washy" wasn't the important part; pointing out that you were acting hypocritically when you condemned Swiss's actions then turning around and doing them yourself was, though, and that point is still intact.

After all, your claim that weren't attacking his style makes no sense. You voted for Swiss based on two reasons: his aggression, and his choice of Isu as a "random target". But, you resolved the issue of his "random choice of Isu" first. If not for his aggression, then why did you continue to claim you thought he was scum in post #161? Further, if you hadn't actually resolved the "random target" issue by that point, then what changed your mind? No one spoke about it at all since that point.

In response to your #183, the string of quoted phrases in my #180 were not actual suggestions, they were my renditions of Riddle's beliefs, and I was telling him to STOP doing them, not embrace them. If he wanted to use them at all, it should be as a general guideline, not a hard immutable "how-to-play-mafia" manual.

I was telling him to vote for you so we could lynch you. What's your point?

@Vult: Trusting May influenced my views on X1-12 and Guide. If not for that, I'd probably still be badgering Swiss. I said it as part of an "@Vult", but it was attached to how she influenced my views; it didn't have to be directed at you, it just happened to be.

I think we've steered from the point. The only thing I'm saying about his offense is that it was there. He showed initiative to scumhunt (?) even while being on the defense.

I disagree, but I don't think that matters.

@All: I'm probably gonna hammer Guide in the morning if he's visited the forum by then and doesn't claim doctor or cop or give a reasonable argument as to why we shouldn't, and we can lynch X1-12 toMorrow. I think the case against X1-12 is stronger, but whatever.

 

[Cello_Marl]

@Mod: I unvoted in post #160.

I didn't notice this. Ah, well. No hammering Guide in the morning for me. So, instead, Unvote Vote The_Guide.

 

[Isuyaru]

@Mod: Can you prod The_Guide?

 

[Cello_Marl]

firstly all it says is 'ONCE role PMs have been sent', where does it say not for replacements?

6) Once all role PMs have been sent, please confirm by quoting your role PM back to me along with the symbol in rule #8. This thread will be unlocked once all players have confirmed.

Like I said, it has to do with confirmation. When everyone confirms, the thread is unlocked. You didn't need to confirm, because there was no locked thread to unlock.

I also never cast doubt on OR disbelieved any rule, I asked for confirmation.

...and what do you think doubt means? If you aren't certain if a rule is actually in place or not, then you doubt it.

Stop strawmanning

Do you even know what a straw man is? It's attacking a weaker position/argument, and claiming that it refutes the original position. On that note, how about answering the question posed to you: Why did you believe bolding was forbidden, as an interpretation of THE RULES would cause that, and yet you were unsure of whether or not ANOTHER PART OF THE SAME RULES was accurate when it was clearly stated?

 

[Mayling]

I would agree to lynch X1-12 over the Guide, if we can get the movement for it.

 

[Cello_Marl]

Shall we?

Unvote Vote X1-12

 

[X1-12]

I took care to highlight every strawman

@X1-12: As much as you claim to not have an opinion on The_Guide, you sure have been willing to take up his cause in response to Vult's inquiries, offering suggestions that his behavior is perfectly natural, and offering excuses for his actions.

I said its possible he is playing badly rather than being mafia. I didn't say it was or it wasn't I don't think I have taken up his cause and I am undecided, which is different from having no opinion. I didn't want to rush the lynch

STRAWMAN: I never passed an opinion, you made that up

You're right, my bad. Fortunately, calling you "wishy-washy" wasn't the important part; pointing out that you were acting hypocritically when you condemned Swiss's actions then turning around and doing them yourself was, though, and that point is still intact.

Read my posts...

"I questioned his motives for choosing isu over others.. I did also briefly think that aggresive play suggests mafia-ship. but was corrected by swiss - with a fairly good explanation why - and thought about it and understood why it is not necessarily so. After that point, all i asked him about was why he chose one person out of all the others? I was not attacking his style, so I don't see where this contradiction comes from."

STRAWMAN: I didn't really criticise his style AND I didn't particularly emulate it, He kept on going at one person on and on, I tried pressuring swiss once.

After all, your claim that weren't attacking his style makes no sense. You voted for Swiss based on two reasons: his aggression, and his choice of Isu as a "random target". But, you resolved the issue of his "random choice of Isu" first. If not for his aggression, then why did you continue to claim you thought he was scum in post #161? Further, if you hadn't actually resolved the "random target" issue by that point, then what changed your mind? No one spoke about it at all since that point.

I was leaning towards him being mafia, I was suspicious.

STRAWMAN: I did not claim his mafia-ness in post 161 I merely thought him as a possibility

I was telling him to vote for you so we could lynch you. What's your point?

sounds like a 'quicklynch' to me

Like I said, it has to do with confirmation. When everyone confirms, the thread is unlocked. You didn't need to confirm, because there was no locked thread to unlock.

So I didn't need to reply with the heart? well I did, the mod said I was missing something, this could go on arguing how the rules are interpreted forever though

...and what do you think doubt means? If you aren't certain if a rule is actually in place or not, then you doubt it.

I expected it to be in place, I was just ensuring that it was. If I am 70% sure of something I wouldn't say that I doubt it.

Do you even know what a straw man is? It's attacking a weaker position/argument, and claiming that it refutes the original position. On that note, how about answering the question posed to you: Why did you believe bolding was forbidden, as an interpretation of THE RULES would cause that, and yet you were unsure of whether or not ANOTHER PART OF THE SAME RULES was accurate when it was clearly stated?

Strawmanning is when you create a fake representation of my argument, then destroy it. Which is what you did many times.

I don't see how this makes me mafia? I stuck to the rules to avoid modkill, the set-up section i was less sure about


I have answered ALL of your questions, please answer some of mine, I will list the ones I still want answered. plus a few more

1.) how is voting swiss and calling you somewhat wishy-washy conclusive to me being contradictory? calling you somewhat wishy-washy is not me saying "OMG SCUM" - in that post I even said I had not taken a side.
2.) do you think swiss is scum or are you just trying to break up the town?
3.) Why do you insist on strawmanning me?
4.) Why do you think I am mafia based on Mayling dropping my name in a passing comment

 

[X1-12]

EBWOP

I wave a big
FoS : Cello_Marl

 

[X1-12]

EBWOP:

FoS: Cello_Marl

 

[Vult Redux]

Why FoS but not a vote, X1-12?

 

[Cello_Marl]

@Vult: He's too concerned with what other people think to pursue his own beliefs so fervently. After all, when he voted for Swiss, there was already a decently sized wagon already built against Swiss. Here, he's only interested in defending himself.

@X1-12: You haven't actually answered every question, and many of the ones you deigned to have unsatisfactory answers.

At the time that you joined, Swiss was under fire. When you gave your thoughts on him, you offered no alternative theories in support of him, and were quick to suggest a baseless Isuyaru/Swiss pair (Notable that Mayling suggested it first. X1-12, why did you make a note of that, anyway?). When you gave your "thoughts" The_Guide, you first tried to distance yourself from him by saying you had no idea what to think about him. When pressed, you spewed out as many excuses in his favor that you could. That's supporting him, whether you say you are or not.

1) Your third "example" of me "strawmanning" you is the reason your vote on Swiss is contradictory; your claimed reason for being suspicious of him doesn't make sense. Also, the very act of calling me wishy-washy was contradictory; just as much as calling a red object blue, or giving a command to not obey orders. "Single-minded" and "wishy-washy" are opposites; I cannot be both. You may not have claimed I was single-minded, but I was. Further, you don't have to explicitly state that you have taken a side to show that you have. As an example of this, I have never once said "I trust Isuyaru", but anyone can easily infer that I do based on what I have said about him.
2) Neither, for while the possibility of Swiss being scum still exists, it has been eclipsed by you and Guide.
3) I am not. I address the first and third elsewhere. For the second point, what do you think voting him for his reaction provoking style was? Condemning his actions. Who's style reminds you of making a "shameless, cheeky post for reactions"? Swiss.
4) That's not why I think you are mafia. It's what turned my attention to you, but you've admirably shown me your true colors.

I was telling Riddle to vote for you so we could quicklynch you. What's your point?

I expected it to be in place, I was just ensuring that it was. If I am 70% sure of something I wouldn't say that I doubt it.

Now, for the fourth time, how can you only be "70% sure" of something so clear?

This is an Open Set-up, where the game may be one of the following setups
[A] 2 Mafia Goons, 1 Sane Cop, 6 Vanilla Townies
2 Mafia Goons, 1 Sane Doctor, 6 Vanilla Townies
[C] 1 Mafia Goon, 1 Mafia Roleblocker, 1 Sane Cop, 1 Sane Doctor, 5 Vanilla Townies
[D] 1 Mafia Goon, 1 Mafia Roleblocker, 7 Vanilla Townies

Also,

I am undecided, which is different from having no opinion

Wut?

Isuyaru, Vult, Writer Kupo, will you vote for X1-12? If not, why?

 

[X1-12]

@Vult: He's too concerned with what other people think to pursue his own beliefs so fervently. After all, when he voted for Swiss, there was already a decently sized wagon already built against Swiss. Here, he's only interested in defending himself.

If this was true I would have just lynched the guide, since he was at L-1, to save myself for today. lynching someone who to I'm not persuing my beleifs fervently because I don't Kkow who is scum, well now I think you are (more on that later)

At the time that you joined, Swiss was under fire. When you gave your thoughts on him, you offered no alternative theories in support of him, and were quick to suggest a baseless Isuyaru/Swiss pair (Notable that Mayling suggested it first. X1-12, why did you make a note of that, anyway?). When you gave your "thoughts" The_Guide, you first tried to distance yourself from him by saying you had no idea what to think about him. When pressed, you spewed out as many excuses in his favor that you could. That's supporting him, whether you say you are or not.

I accepted the possibility he could have done it for scummy reasons, he could not have done, although I didn't 'spew out' excuses. Once again this is something you entirely.

please explain what you mean in the underlined part

1) Your third "example" of me "strawmanning" you is the reason your vote on Swiss is contradictory; your claimed reason for being suspicious of him doesn't make sense. Also, the very act of calling me wishy-washy was contradictory; just as much as calling a red object blue, or giving a command to not obey orders. "Single-minded" and "wishy-washy" are opposites; I cannot be both. You may not have claimed I was single-minded, but I was. Further, you don't have to explicitly state that you have taken a side to show that you have. As an example of this, I have never once said "I trust Isuyaru", but anyone can easily infer that I do based on what I have said about him.

you are stuck on a course, but your questions are quite wishy-washy, some of your questions were just all over the place..

3) I am not. I address the first and third elsewhere. For the second point, what do you think voting him for his reaction provoking style was? Condemning his actions. Who's style reminds you of making a "shameless, cheeky post for reactions"? Swiss.

the first and third, where? If i say its possible that I think someone is Mafia, that's not me saying they are Mafia. Same goes with if I accept both sides of an argument in favour of, and against, someone (the guide) it doesn't mean I'm on either side

Swiss' style was more blunt and boneheaded than shameless and cheeky.





No

w, for the fourth time, how can you only be "70% sure" of something so clear?

Because quite a lot of the opening set-up looks like its been copy pasted? How is just making sure of something scumtell?


Wut?

Isuyaru, Vult, Writer Kupo, will you vote for X1-12? If not, why?



@Vult: Having slept on it and had a think i know last night I was unsure of his intentions but now its much more clear

@everyone

Vote: Cello_Marl

I realised that he is pressuring me for information, which is fine, but since he recent arguments have been fanciful, or just irrelevant (his strongest point seems to be 'why did I ask about the set-up') but the fact he is still going at me, and the fact that he's trying for a quicklynch al add up to a mafia man

 

[Circa]

Vote: Cello_Marl

My reasoning will be in my next post. I just didn't want to be in the middle of making a post and put Vote at the end of it, only to accidently hammer someone because someone posted before I did and I forgot to check if anyone had before posting.

Cello is now at L-1.

 

[Purple]

The_Guide has been Prodded by request

Who will survive...​

Votes​

Cello_Marl ($$$$)*The_Guide, Riddle, X1-12, Writer Kupo
Vult Redux ()*
Mayling ()*
The_Guide ($$$) *Mayling, Swiss, Vult_redux
X1-12 ($)*Cello_Marl
Isuyaru()*
Swiss ()*
Riddle () *
Writer Kupo () *​

Not Voting: Isuyaru($)​

It takes 5/9 to eliminate a player.
Deadline: 06/18/10 8:00pm EST​

...the liar game.​

 

[Circa]

@Mayling: I haven't asked you anything because you've made your positions clear to me through your posts. I don't yet share your conviction of Swiss=town, but I can see why you feel that way, after a re-think, and I admit I'm coming around to it. What do you think of a lynch queue of X1-12, then Guide, then Riddle, then Swiss, and getting the town to agree as a whole to doctors choosing his/her protect from the 5 not mentioned, and cops investigating the people in the lynch queue? That way, mafia has to kill in a group consisting of people more likely to be doc-protected if they don't want to kill our lynch queue for us, and cops can clear or convict people in said lynch queue. The only way this really hurts us is if it's the 7 vanilla/1 roleblocker/1 goon set-up, and even then, I'd be confident enough in the lynch choices to go ahead with it.

WIFOM up the ***. Like, to a level where I'm pretty ****ing skeptical. After considering the amount of past WIFOM you've been pulling and from the general conclusion I've gained from your prods and the arguments I've read, the variant of this situation that I kinda feel is the most likely to occur is that you're the roleblocker. It's the position that benefits the absolute most from this type of situation. Trying to force Guide into a roleclaim of Doc or Cop (I know you posted other alternatives, but in these types of situations I almost claiming Freudian theory and assume you unconsciously put it first because it's the situation you would kind of like to have occur most), and the attempt to buddy with Mayling (at least in my eyes) really point to it too.

As for why I'm skeptical of all the WIFOM, it's because it can do a decent job (even if it is risky as hell) of keeping you safe from NK. You're doing a lot of stuff where, if Mafia were to NK you, the people you suspected would be very quickly targeted. Of course, this means that as scum you have an excuse for being aggressive as hell too.

I had something else, but it's left my brain. This didn't come out as cool as it was supposed to either, but whatevs.

Riddle, quit playing like a VI. Rawr.

I ****ing love Blink-182.

 

[Vult Redux]

Isuyaru, Vult, Writer Kupo, will you vote for X1-12? If not, why?

Reiterate the part of the case that has nothing to do with "pretending to not read the OP or whatever" BS.

Do not support Cello lynch. Especially with Riddle on that wagon.

 

[Cello_Marl]

When he gets back, if Swiss should hammer me without giving me a chance to address any grievances, then you all know who I want dead. Take Riddle off of the lynch queue though.

@Vult: In his opening statement, X1-12 considers the suggestion that Isuyaru and Swiss (the two people with the most suspicion against them [still don't know how that happened in regards to Isuyaru]) could be scummates, presenting it without evidence, reason or any circumstantial evidence which would suggest their pairing. Why?

He then literally voted for Swiss claiming he thought Swiss didn't randomly choose Isu to pressure, and therefore Swiss knew everyone's roles (later, he said alignment). No reasoning, no evidence for that stance. That was X1-12's second post of the game; pretty quick, especially given that it was like pulling teeth for him to commit to a vote to me. What was the difference? Swiss had a lot of pressure against him already, and looked like a safe, easy lynch. I was the reverse.

Actually, getting information out of X1-12 is a chore in general; when Isuyaru asked him for his stance on "Cello v. Swiss", he said Swiss's arguments (against my points) were fairly legit, and I was being wishy-washy. Yet, he still thought Swiss was scum, for completely unrelated reasons. Why did he not offer that information to Isuyaru at that time? If he thought I was being wishy-washy, why didn't he pursue that before someone had to ask him his opinion on me? He was keeping his options as open as possible; his vote was on Swiss to encourage more people to jump on the wagon, but he could always say he thought Swiss made sense at that time.

Then, he said he was baiting a reaction with his "shameless cheeky" comment. Why would he make that comment before actually getting a reaction? That defeats the purpose. I've already offered my view on that; he was trying to appear similar to Swiss in the event of Swiss's lynch (which I think appeared the most likely at the time), so either he or his partner could showcase that apparent similarity (and consequent tacit similarity in alignment). After all, the only response he got was "I didn't vote for you". NO ONE can get an alignment read off of that and mean it, no matter what X1-12 claims (and he tried, saying that "scum-Swiss would have diverted it to someone else". How he would have done that, I have no idea. For that matter, X1-12 claimed that Swiss-town "argued back". When did "I didn't vote for you" become an argument?). I explain the contradiction of his Swiss vote further at the end of #173.

Also, you're misunderstanding the significance of his comments concerning the OP. No one is claiming that he didn't read it; we're proposing that it is ridiculous to believe that he could have read and believed that bolding is against the rules, yet find the set-up rules to be in dispute. Dissonance of thought is a scum tell.

On that note, for all his recent bluster about quicklynches being evil monstrosities that devour towns whole, he made absolutely no comment about me wanting Swiss's lynch early on. In fact, he voted for the guy. Why the sudden turnabout?

X1-12 supported The_Guide when he alternative theories that Guide could have acted the way that he did "rather than [The_Guide] being scum" (those were X1-12's own words). But, the quote you showed him had absolutely no negative connotations attached to it. Why did he get so defensive over another person, and yet adamantly refuse to acknowledge that that was what he did? Contrast that with my support of Isuyaru (or May, or in a way, Riddle), in which I openly embrace my actions. Why would he do this except to not be associated with The_Guide after he flips? I find this point particularly persuasive.

@Writer Kupo: Do you really think the stuff you said makes me lynch-worthy, especially compared to X1-12?

WIFOM up the ***. Like, to a level where I'm pretty ****ing skeptical. After considering the amount of past WIFOM you've been pulling and from the general conclusion I've gained from your prods and the arguments I've read

What WIFOM? Where?

, the variant of this situation that I kinda feel is the most likely to occur is that you're the roleblocker.

How so?

It's the position that benefits the absolute most from this type of situation.

How so? Also, how does having the "greatest benefit" here indicate a greater probability of my being scum? Further, if I were to not die, wouldn't that cast doubt upon me, and increase the chances of my getting lynched as scum? Keep in mind that if the scum group includes a roleblocker, there is a 50/50 shot that the town has a doc/cop combo. If the roleblocker is killed Day 1 and the cop gets an innocent investigation on anyone other than the doctor, town can literally force a win. How would being out in the open be such a "great benefit" if I were the roleblocker?

Trying to force Guide into a roleclaim of Doc or Cop (I know you posted other alternatives, but in these types of situations I almost claiming Freudian theory and assume you unconsciously put it first because it's the situation you would kind of like to have occur most),

If that was a Freudian slip, the only reasonable scenario assumes that I'm a roleblocker, or a goon with a roleblocker friend. But you think I'm a roleblocker because you think it was a Freudian slip. Using circular logic is not good here, Writer.

Besides, I wasn't trying to force Guide to claim anything; I want him dead. But, if he claimed a PR, there would be no reason to lynch him Day 1. If he claims Cop, then we can lynch him if we lynch a single goon and still find him to be scummy (finding the roleblocker would have confirmed his claim, and a CC ensures at least one scum exists between the two). Also, that way, we still have the benefit of his investigation. If he claimed Doc, it's much the same, except he could protect people if he was telling the truth, and we could lynch him toMorrow if we still felt it was the best option.

and the attempt to buddy with Mayling (at least in my eyes) really point to it too.

I'm not ATTEMPTING to buddy Mayling, I AM buddying Mayling. In any case, how would that support me being a roleblocker, or even scum at all?

 

[Riddle]

Good evidence there. Do we have to go through this scum or dumb **** again? I don't see how many being on a wagon could POSSIBLY invalidate it.

Thats some ****ing terrible logic.

 

[Cello_Marl]

@Riddle: What actual evidence is there against me anyway? Nothing.

On that note, why exactly are you voting for me again? I've established that wanting a quicklynch isn't scummy for me. Do you have any other "evidence"?

 

[Riddle]

In response to me saying I would buddy Mayling.

@Riddle: Please die.

Also, since May didn't have the cojones, vote Riddle.

And then just now:

I'm not ATTEMPTING to buddy Mayling, I AM buddying Mayling.

I smell myself contradiction right thar.

 

[Riddle]

@Riddle: What actual evidence is there against me anyway? Nothing.

On that note, why exactly are you voting for me again? I've established that wanting a quicklynch isn't scummy for me. Do you have any other "evidence"?

Oh look I just did something scummy. Oh wait I'll just say it isn't scummy for me. Problem solved!

And read my previous post.

 

[Cello_Marl]

My vote on you was for pressure to determine if you really were as much of an idiot as I thought you were, something that I hinted at in my IC voice. Besides, I'm buddies with Mayling (and Isuyaru) because I agree with their points of view and I believe that they are town. Enough has happened for me to come to that conclusion; there is no contradiction there.

So, you don't have anything other than that?

 

[Riddle]

I don't think you understand that you can't just 'explain away' scum tells and contradictions. 'thats normal for me' and 'thats not a contradiction' don't work. At least not for me.

Your at L-1, I'd like some better arguments than that please.

 

[Vult Redux]

In response to me saying I would buddy Mayling.

And then just now:

I smell myself contradiction right thar.

Welp that settles it.

gj on outing scum for us

Vote: Riddle

 

[Cello_Marl]

Quickly reading people is a skill that I possess, a skill you may some day hope to acheive, however doubtful that may be (after all, the Newbie 2 player should be the IC, not the Newbie 3 player. Funny how life works out). There is no other explanation, although I am forced admit it was a mistake to play to my full level of ability with the likes of you.

As far as "saying 'that's not a contradiction'" not being sufficient is concerned, then what, pray tell, would be? I showed that the circumstances surrounding those two events were different; I can't think of anything else that could possibly be a better argument.

My only hope at this point is for Vult, Mayling, or Isuyaru to convince you of the error of your ways. Looks like Cello was right again.

 

[Cello_Marl]

EBWOP: Well, that, or if Writer Kupo sees reason. I'd like to see his responses soon. Or if Swiss isn't as vindictive as I think he'll be.

 

[X1-12]

@Vult: In his opening statement, X1-12 considers the suggestion that Isuyaru and Swiss (the two people with the most suspicion against them [still don't know how that happened in regards to Isuyaru]) could be scummates, presenting it without evidence, reason or any circumstantial evidence which would suggest their pairing. Why?

Should I have just sat and said nothing at all? you even said if the town is pressuring someone they should work together. What would I have achieved from voting you then?

He then literally voted for Swiss claiming he thought Swiss didn't randomly choose Isu to pressure, and therefore Swiss knew everyone's roles (later, he said alignment). No reasoning, no evidence for that stance. That was X1-12's second post of the game; pretty quick, especially given that it was like pulling teeth for him to commit to a vote to me. What was the difference? Swiss had a lot of pressure against him already, and looked like a safe, easy lynch. I was the reverse.

I Never said this, I said IF swiss didn't randomly choose Isu. I never claimed that he was.

Actually, getting information out of X1-12 is a chore in general; when Isuyaru asked him for his stance on "Cello v. Swiss", he said Swiss's arguments (against my points) were fairly legit, and I was being wishy-washy. Yet, he still thought Swiss was scum, for completely unrelated reasons. Why did he not offer that information to Isuyaru at that time? If he thought I was being wishy-washy, why didn't he pursue that before someone had to ask him his opinion on me? He was keeping his options as open as possible; his vote was on Swiss to encourage more people to jump on the wagon, but he could always say he thought Swiss made sense at that time.

What is wrong with keeping my opinions open? and as for voting swiss, some of that was from a misunderstanding, some was pressure (perhaps unnecessary)

Then, he said he was baiting a reaction with his "shameless cheeky" comment. Why would he make that comment before actually getting a reaction? That defeats the purpose. I've already offered my view on that; he was trying to appear similar to Swiss in the event of Swiss's lynch (which I think appeared the most likely at the time), so either he or his partner could showcase that apparent similarity (and consequent tacit similarity in alignment). After all, the only response he got was "I didn't vote for you". NO ONE can get an alignment read off of that and mean it, no matter what X1-12 claims (and he tried, saying that "scum-Swiss would have diverted it to someone else". How he would have done that, I have no idea. For that matter, X1-12 claimed that Swiss-town "argued back". When did "I didn't vote for you" become an argument?). I explain the contradiction of his Swiss vote further at the end of #173.

I have already explained the enf part of 173, Half of it you made up,

He said he didn't vote and gave me a FoS, he seemed fairly calm, if he was going to react he would have done it already. I said I would have Expected him to vote for someone else to move the pressure off of him if he was scum

On that note, for all his recent bluster about quicklynches being evil monstrosities that devour towns whole, he made absolutely no comment about me wanting Swiss's lynch early on. In fact, he voted for the guy. Why the sudden turnabout?

I wasn't trying to gang everyone up and rush to lynch him straight away, there was no call to arms.

X1-12 supported The_Guide when he alternative theories that Guide could have acted the way that he did "rather than [The_Guide] being scum" (those were X1-12's own words). But, the quote you showed him had absolutely no negative connotations attached to it. Why did he get so defensive over another person, and yet adamantly refuse to acknowledge that that was what he did? Contrast that with my support of Isuyaru (or May, or in a way, Riddle), in which I openly embrace my actions. Why would he do this except to not be associated with The_Guide after he flips? I find this point particularly persuasive.

Fiction again, I did not support the guide, I was open-minded about him, I've said this before and you have just ignored me. I did not deny the accusations against him, I accepted them along with other arguments for him, taking no stance. If you choose to read further into them then that is only in your mind.

The fact that so many of your arguements

 

[Isuyaru]

Still not sure where I want my vote to be most. I greatly dislike Riddle's recent posts, but I'd also support an X1-12 lynch. I wouldn't mind switching my vote over to him later.

Vote: Riddle

 

[Cello_Marl]

He then literally voted for Swiss claiming he thought Swiss didn't randomly choose Isu to pressure

I Never said this, I said IF swiss didn't randomly choose Isu. I never claimed that he was.

Really? What was this then?

I understand you could have chosen randomly, but I was saying that assuming you weren't

I wasn't trying to gang everyone up and rush to lynch him straight away, there was no call to arms.

I don't understand what this means. The point I made was that I had already tried to have someone quicklynched when you joined the game, and yet you said nothing about it. It only became an issue for you when you were the target.

Also, can you please finish your sentences? That's getting annoying.

 

[Purple]

The_Guide has been Prodded by request

Who will survive...​

Votes​

Cello_Marl ($$$$)*The_Guide, Riddle, X1-12, Writer Kupo
Vult Redux ()*
Mayling ()*
The_Guide ($$) *Mayling, Swiss
X1-12 ($)*Cello_Marl
Isuyaru()*
Swiss ()*
Riddle ($$) *Vult_Redux, Isuyaru
Writer Kupo () *​

Not Voting: No One ()​

It takes 5/9 to eliminate a player.
Deadline: 06/18/10 8:00pm EST​

...the liar game.​

 

[X1-12]

Really? What was this then?

I was talking about how the scenario I described assumed he was lying, I never denied the possibility of him telling the truth. Can you please re-read the argument about this if you want to try to hassle me on it again.

I don't understand what this means. The point I made was that I had already tried to have someone quicklynched when you joined the game, and yet you said nothing about it. It only became an issue for you when you were the target.

I wasn't going to drag things up from over 50 posts ago. Now, along with other things, It adds to your scum-ness. When I said there was no call to arms it mean, I voted for him, I wasn't asking everyone else to jump on the wagon and rush to lynch.

 

[Swiss]

(posting thoughts as I type)

DO NOT HAMMER CELLO.

Where the **** is guide at?

X1-12 is not scum, he is however a poor townie.


I do NOT want the guide to get away be default of being inactive. I wouldn't mind seeing him lynched.


I have read through this in decent detail but obv will have missed stuff. I will make a longer post within the hour - I've only just got back and am caked in mud.

Cello probably isn't scum, he simply has a f***ing annoying posting style. As a note yo you Cello, please please PLEASE stop ignoring answers and repeating questions and swaping people with questions, a few concise questions will serve us better, imo. I REALLY do not like Cello saying "I'll be lynched if Swiss is as vindictive as I think he'll be" This is basically pressuring me to not lynch you and calling me a nub at the game if I do. This makes me really, really want to hammer you.

 

[Swiss]

Any questions @ me need to be re-asked.

 

[Vult Redux]

Imo if we lynch Riddle or The Guide we'll be golden.

 

[The_Guide]

This is embarrassing... I actually forgot that I was in this game.

I'd totally understand if town wanted to lynch me at this point. I guess I'll ask for a replacement, since I apparently suck at playing two games at once + dealing with irl stuff.

 

[Purple]

@everyone - I'm willing to replace The Guide with a good player, however that defeats the purpose of a newbie game . How does everyone feel about this?

 

[Mayling]

Where'd the Guide go?

Last Activity: Today 01:27 PM

Last posted: 06-09-2010, 09:07 PM

You hiding?

 

[Mayling]

Nimja'd. The_Guide can stay if he's wanting to replace out because he feels he's doing bad. That's okay. But if he's not having fun/can't handle two games, then that's up to him.

But. I find it funny he pops right up when Swiss mentions him.