Newbie Mafia 7! Canceled!

[Purple]

I will be taking his vote off of Cello_Marl, for the fact this was Guide's vote, not Tom's. If he feels the need to put it back there he can re-vote.

 

[Tom]

unvote how about that

almost done reading

 

[Tom]

These are my notes. I formed them by writing everyone's name on a different line, and then writing my thoughts to each of their posts as they happened. Therefore, it is primarily organized by player (as they are listed on the first post), and secondarily organized chronologically. Apart from that, there are a few stranded comments.

I figured I might as well post this. Some things I may have said, and then moved on to form a different opinion - that actually should be visible from what I say later; or, I may have a no-likey no-likey response to a bad post, but think the player is better overall - that should also be apparent.

You don't need to respond to my notes at all. But please read them. Respond to questions, statements that I make outside of them. But, if something catches your eye, you can feel free to comment on it or ask a question about it.

[collapse= My Notes]Newbie 7

I am The_Guide: notes Riddle's callout on Cello, votes Cello, asks why so quick to lynch. #104: see Swiss or Cello as scum, should line up lynches like that -- urp. Thinks Swiss is town. Then goes inactive like mad.

Cello_Marl: Votes Riddle for "buddying Mayling." Vote on Swiss #56 is understandable, glad he chose Swiss over Isuyaru. (You have NO posts?! Lol.) Wow #73 suggesting to lynch Swiss right now, after addressing to him that the burden of proof was on him, and asking him questions.
Cello is gruff as **** towards other players (read: Swiss). @Cello: Do you think Swiss is SCUM, or do you think is play is bad? #120... HOLY. ****. 20. QUESTIONS. #156 " Sidenote: I think Riddle is just legitimately an idiot, but I'm unsure about X1 and Guide now." another example of an absolutely awful attitude. #156 states that Swiss's answer "waaay too many questions" isn't satisfactory, when that isn't what Swiss did. He answered some, and said other's had already been answered. Be fair. You bomBARDED him with questions. You state in #156, "Swiss is scum because he acted in a scummy manner..." do you think he is scum, or have you considered that he is dumb? You immediately write off Riddle and maybe even X1 and Guide as dumb, but Swiss is scum. What do you think about "why would he behave that way as scum? what does he have to GAIN from doing that as scum?" You later note that "scum would never talk like that!" is a mark against Riddle and Guide, but you also don't even consider, openly, what he would have to gain from acting like that. There is a point where what you gain is absolutely nil. Hypocritical, ineffective, idiotic... okay. "Dare [you] say, scummy?" What if he is just town? Ugh but #165 is good. #173: "First and foremost, regardless of your faction, you have got to stop skimming over information." Why does X1-12 have to stop skimming as scum? #219, why take Riddle off the lynch queue as possibly your last words? He hasn't done ANYTHING differently. #253 as an aside, we try as hard as we can to attract real newbies, hence the Newbie Game and not Intro to DGames game name. #253 "if i die, abandon your animosity towards Riddle" again. Why?

You were afraid that town would forget about Swiss. Have you forgotten about him, according to that definition?

Vult Redux: Recognizes own horse-beating in #45. #62 "Swiss is town, Isuyaru is scum." #92 asks Mayling about the motives in #70 that I didn't understand, though it involved him+Cello team. #97 backs down on Mayling, i still dont get it. #154 gets on the The_Guide wagon because he was against what he said about Swiss being defensive. In #166 he is also against Cello in that he says Swiss was on the aggressive on Cello and Isu the whole time he was defending himself, which I think is true. Also makes note of Cello calling Riddle an idiot but not scum.

Mayling: Votes Riddle for "buddying her." I don't understand her motives in #70. In #72 she distances herself from Riddle's buddying, disproving any real reason for his attitude (besides that Riddle is a pre-adolescent boy and Mayling is a chibikawaiigirl). #93 when did that happen? #111-112 votes The_Guide for being contradictory. #167: thinks X1-12 is a good play, Swiss is town but not cooperating, likes Vult.

X1-12 (rep. Daed): #143 he says Swiss' arguments against Cello are legit (specifically i think meaning that Cello beats a dead horse a lot with his questions), I dont know how i feel about that. #186 unsure to vote for anyone makes me think he is town, maybe. I can't remember the last time I saw scum do that. WIFOM OMG OMG just drink it. #195 noob card pulled? #197 nevermind, maybe?

Swiss: #48 is weird. Jumpy (and wrong, and hypocritical) in #50 on Isuyaru, creates cross-vote and bandwagon calls. #83 "Even if you were certain of my scumminess you should wait and see who tries to buddy me or bus me," sounds scummy; "You [Cello_Marl] have no idea his [Isuyaru] or my alignment," assuming Cello is town after what he has done, including wanting to hammer him, including 'skimming Mayling's vote,' keeps his vote on Isuyaru. Tunnel, much? TURNABOUT: In #90, explains all his blatant flaws as a trap-card that *only* The_Guide would understand? WTF? Then says he doesn't like Cello's opinions on what he did, though immediately after he admits that it was all fluff or wrong. I'm sorry.... what the ****? [Thinking... if proven true, gambitting VT, if proven false, scum.] #106 "If Im lynched, honestly lynch Cello, I dont see him being town" - that seems town to me. Why did you vote The_Guide in #152? #269 why is Guide more likely to be scum, but you are voting Cello? Don't both have wagons?

Isuyaru: Good question towards Cello-Riddling buddying in #41? Hypocritically hit by Swiss in #50. #201 Cello-Isuyaru question-answerer? #260 good criticism of riddle's bad play but null tell. #260 has a case on The_Guide that is apparently better than anyone else's scum-tells.

Riddle: "Buddies Mayling" like I buddy KevinM. #78 amazing ~CaLLouT~ against Cello. #119 is his next post, still curt, still voting Cello. #172 if you disagree with cases, you have to point out more contractions than what you are doing. #175, 176 baaaaad. If X1-12 is your second pick, say why dammit. #256 "I've been Village Idiot as a strategy," what the ****? No. Bad #256. Bad. #263 cello showed how you are being silly (he says idiotic).

Writer Kupo: Why is this guy not in the first post? #149: hot flashes? Girl, then? Anyways, I think they've played before by how they write/type/FoS. If they're a writer, have they competed in WWYP? If not, there is one going right now. Says the bandwagon on Riddle was harmless and for fun and says Riddle was pacifistic, I don't think that's how it went down, it seemed more like Riddle made a weird *** joke about buddying and people took it very seriously, in fact they compared it to Tom-KevinM and asked him question after question before he said it was a joke. Says Swiss' bandwagon is more feasible because its more feasible than the Riddle wagon. Also says nothing else. I look forward to what he says about Riddle, defining the "scum aura" on Swiss in actual FACTS. He promises. "I'll be completely honest," when talking about his relationship with Riddle. Why wouldn't you be? #217 comes out and votes Cello_Marl for his aside to Mayling about lining up the lynches, but doesn't even frame it that way. Just talks about WIFOM. That's his (Her?) second post, and has not touched on anything at all related to any players other than Cello-May (with no May), Swiss being scummy but never explained, Riddle being VI. Third post is #254. Thinks X1-12 is not lynchworthy, agreeing "with Swiss." Backed down on Cello and unvoted immediately, saying "youve shown me some sort of light," what? What is your vote of The_Guide based on, in 254? Nothing? "is most liktely to come out mafia," because he is gone? You gave reads but you didn't have any of them up except for X1-12.


Are there actually nine players in this game? The first post doesn't list Writer Kupo... for ever, there were two players who didn't post (Daed, Writer Kupo?)

The_Guide wagon: Mayling votes me in #111-112 for being contradictory; Swiss votes me in #152 without any reason why. Vult votes me in #154 to "help the wagon" in response to The_Guide's statement that Swiss is posting too defensively.[/collapse]

Go ahead and read all of this and not just the part about you.

01. Tom - Town. Will fight tooth and nail to prove it and avoid being lynched for being inactive.

02. Cello_Marl - Should not be lynched. Alignment to be determined, but he really is doing a great job as a player, and I don't approve of his lynch. Is being voted for by Riddle who refuses to let go of (a) Cello's attitude which is not determining of alignment and is actually not that bad if you just cast stoneskin and get with the game (b) his call-out on Cello for wanting someone to hammer Swiss. While this took me by surprise as well, and I thought it was a great call-out because I didn't even notice that Cello had said that until Riddle noted it, Cello has backed it up very well, Swiss deserved it for the worst TRAP CARD fail ever, and its the only thing Riddle has really noted. Riddle then says that Cello is buddying Mayling while chastising him for buddying Mayling. Nope, it's different, because he shows why. X1-12 seems focused only on Cello right now because Cello is focused on him. Swiss cannot let go of Cello's wanting to lynch him, apparently, even though Swiss acted "purposefully" scummy and is so, so very stubborn. So, this bandwagon should dissipate. Also, "You were afraid that town would forget about Swiss. Have you forgotten about him, according to that definition?"

However, in #219 and #253, you (Charles Marles), when the rope was around your neck and the Marines asked you "any last words," you responded, "don't lynch Riddle like I said to." Why the turnaround? From what I've seen, he's done absolutely nothing different.

03. Vult Redux - Having a hard time separating him from Isuyaru as the same person. But, if you look at my notes please, I basically don't disagree with what you've done, I just wish you would have more of a... nominal presence?

04. Isuyaru - Having a hard time separating him from Vult Redux as the same person. Are you lurking? I feel like most you have done is a null-tell, but I might need to look back at you-X1 and you-The_Guide again. This might be my weakest read.

05. Riddle - You are being wrong. If you do not want to build a case on Cello_Marl, because you think that "it will not convince anyone," then you, well, no, you can't do that. You are basically repeating the same thing over and over at him... you can't do that! All you've done this game is vote Cello, or at least that's all I've absorbed. How do you feel about EVERYONE ELSE? You are tunneling mad hard iirc. I guess I'll go over this more later but you should respond with your ideas/stances towards other people other than Cello, and please, please, recognize that you are not doing anything but stagnating when you behave the way you are towards Cello currently. Also, if Cello seems high and mighty to you, he has very well in a lot of games, is a good player and a good poster, and if his attitude is his flaw, then that doesn't change anything about his play.

06. Mayling - Can't pin your alignment, but you haven't done anything wrong. Yours is the only real vote on The_Guide that I consider a legitimate qualm.

07. X1-12 - I don't know what to think of you, which is bad because you are on the chopping block (hey so apparently I am too, and I don't want that, and apparently Cello is too, and I don't want that, so...) If it's not making you be redundant, how do you feel about people other than Cello, and why are you voting Cello currently?

08. Writer Kupo - Why is no one paying any attention to THIS PERSON? (Are you a guy or a girl?) You've been an absolute absence the entire game, I think you have 3 posts and the first two of them were bogus. In the first, you voted Swiss (flavor of the week) saying that you would back it up later but never, ever did. All vague everything - vague cards, vague cars - all vague everything. Your next post you voted for Cello for his talk towards Mayling but had really weird "WIFOM" reasoning and then backed off once Cello basically told you, "No." I'm, I'm just going to post my notes here again:

Says the bandwagon on Riddle was harmless and for fun and says Riddle was pacifistic, I don't think that's how it went down, it seemed more like Riddle made a weird *** joke about buddying and people took it very seriously, in fact they compared it to Tom-KevinM and asked him question after question before he said it was a joke. Says Swiss' bandwagon is more feasible because its more feasible than the Riddle wagon. Also says nothing else. I look forward to what he says about Riddle, defining the "scum aura" on Swiss in actual FACTS. He promises. "I'll be completely honest," when talking about his relationship with Riddle. Why wouldn't you be? #217 comes out and votes Cello_Marl for his aside to Mayling about lining up the lynches, but doesn't even frame it that way. Just talks about WIFOM. That's his (Her?) second post, and has not touched on anything at all related to any players other than Cello-May (with no May), Swiss being scummy but never explained, Riddle being VI. Third post is #254. Thinks X1-12 is not lynchworthy, agreeing "with Swiss." Backed down on Cello and unvoted immediately, saying "youve shown me some sort of light," what? What is your vote of The_Guide based on, in 254? Nothing? "is most liktely to come out mafia," because he is gone? You gave reads but you didn't have any of them up except for X1-12.

Would want to lynch you.

09. Swiss - Could lynch you. You are ridiculous. Read my notes, I guess. I don't even know WHY you are voting me. You said that you think Cello is more likely scum than me, and BOTH of us have wagons, but then you proceeded to vote me? That makes no sense. Your earlier play was absolutely awful and after you said it was on purpose I literally had to walk around the room. Cello vs. you I side basically only with Cello because you are ridiculous. I'm going braindead right now.... ****. I'll get back to you, but I think you are the most viable lynch that I agree with or see myself on besides possible X1-12 which is more viable but I am less confident with. If I had my way though, the Day would last another week and we would take a look at Writer Kupo.

The case on (The_Guide) me. There really isn't a case on The_Guide, as far as I see. He was just not present for a very long time, and Mayling pointed out a contradiction that The_Guide had that went without remark for a long time. That was when he said he thinks Swiss could be town, but he missed Isuyaru's offer to hammer Swiss and he'd be fine leaving that with him. In The_Guide's defense, I think that he just said he could actually see Swiss being town because he was being won over by Swiss then, but when he noticed Isuyaru's offer to hammer Swiss, he gave him "back the hammer rights," saying that if Isu still found Swiss scummy, he wasn't going to hammer, so Isu might as well not wait for him to vote and for Isu to vote if he wanted to. Well, The_Guide apparently responded to this in #118... I have a feeling there is one more question that someone asked of him that he didn't get to respond to, but I can't find it now.

I know I have more in my head pertinent to discussion. I know I do. I need to re-focus on X1-12 to make a decision there. I know I do. My reads on Vult/Isu are weak because I got them confused for a while. I'll fix that. But I just did a major read of this game and posted as much as I can before becoming brain-dead on it. I also took an Astronomy (Phys based) test today and have the final for that on Thursday. So, there. I'll post again tonight when I remember the TOPICS and ISSUES that I forgot.


vote: Writer Kupo


for now, that's my vote. I'd like to see Writer Kupo flesh out his (her?) opinions on people with what they have actually said/done. I'd also like to know what happened with Kupo's first post about Swiss when he was flavor of the week as that was Kupo's only read, it had no backing, and it seems OPPORTUNISTIC of a vote that its gone, without any explanation for the vote or for the removal, once Swiss isn't on the block anymore. Then spun around and hit Cello, who seemed like the anti-Swiss at the time, because of Cello's widely-chastised request to get a hammer on Swiss before everyone forgot about it. And now, Kupo is voting The_Guide, for a reason that I cannot find AT ALL, and frankly I think its because The_Guide (me) is the flavor of the week right now. After all, I MUST think that because there is no backing for any of Kupo's reads other than possibly X1-12 which seems the strongest and is a "dont lynch this guy."

I might have to change this vote to someone we can deal without in lylo. I am NOT AFRAID to Min/Max based on ability to scumhunt / worth. KevinM has instilled in me that much.

Im going to go take a breather. That should be enough to get me injected into this game.

 

[Swiss]

FYI I'm voting Cello, not you Tom.

I voted The_Guide before I left (for 3/4 days) as I felt the vote I on him would be far more effective on him than on Cello. Obv I couldn't do anything else during that time and so I did that.

As for me failing at the beginning I can't deny it probably does look awful, but hey, I learnt from it (only done one complete game of mafia).

As for my other logic, I said The_Guide seemed more likely to be scum, but the risk of Cello being scum was far to large - I feel he channels the entire game in the direction he pleases.

 

[X1-12]

@Tom - The topics of each paragraph have been underlined, as some people (nominally riddle) have been complaining about walls of text

Firstly, from the notes; pulling the noobcard. I mean what was I supposed to do when asked such a direct question?, If I lied it would have only come out later and looked worse, I don't think there was a way to avoid that question.

Secondly, notes about Cello, Can I ask why you think he is a good player? All I see is boneheaded-ness and a ridiculous method of questioning (Asking questions, getting answers then totally dropping them and asking tons of different questions, which seems to bore 7 of the other players and just irritate the one you are questioning) At the end of this post I will sum up all my feelings on each player for you, including a reiteration of Cello.

Thirdly, about me being on the chopping block - Is this implied from people's posts? because I don't actually have any votes on me. The only thing is Cello and Mayling look like they might soon. Is there a little bit you can expand on this?

@Tom+Others

My View on the other 8 at this moment in time:

This is probably my first time where I'm getting right into this, I now have a pretty good opinion on most players - Most people have got a bit about their Scumness/likelihood of being scum, and their usefulness/how helpful they are to town.

Cello: Is not helping town in any real way in my eyes, my vote is on him because he was laying into me with arguments which, towards the end were just getting ridiculous, the fact he wasn't stopping when his arguments were, in my opinion, a lot of hot air (hot air fired at you rapidly and relentlessly though) If he had battled me with decent arguments and persuaded them I would not be voting for him, but there is little I can think of that will now move my vote off of Cello. I do not see him as helping the town in any way, AND do not see him being a townie himself, even if he is not I think the town will benefit from his lynch, since they will be less fragmented.

Vult: Vult doesn't say much, almost seems like he is posting just enough to avoid being called for lurking, seems set on Riddle or Guide (now Tom) However Vult hasn't really been questioned about anything, well he hasn't answered much atleast. suspicion for Vult is about mid-way, but there's 3 people who spring to mind as lynch-worthy before Vult

Mayling: Doesn't seem to do anything much, yet seems trusted by Cello, I was thinking that either one of Mayling or Cello were scum (now just Cello) because of the way they acted, but feeling less of that now. Mayling is one of the more useful players in terms of asking concise, appropriate, difficult to answer, questions. Does not seem to being biassing much towards only certain players which makes me think is good to stay, not highly suspicious of Mayling but much more useful than Kupo, Isu, and Vult. More useful than Cello too.

Tom/The Guide: I had the option to switch off of voting Cello and lynch The Guide, but, at least in my eyes at this current moment (anyone can argue this point with me). Not being helpful is not very lynch-worthy (on its own), but being unhelpful IS lynch-worthy. Tom also seems like he's fairly good on picking up on things which is a useful skill.

Isu: Pretty much the same as Vult; mid level of suspicion coupled with low levels of helpfulness. But Isu or Vult would not be my lynch target - at least not for now. See my helpfulness/unhelpfulness explanation on The Guide, its pretty much the same here. Isu is also lurking just a leetle bit more than Vult I think

Swiss: Argues fairly well, I'd give him fairly high on helpfulness (not as high as Mayling) and Scum-ness is about on par with Isu and Vult. Not much else to say since he's been away for 3 days. Would put a few others before him in terms of lynching

Riddle: I don't think this guy is that bad, His outright statements about what he thinks is scummy isn't an issue for me. Infact I don't think Riddle is scummy. Me, Swiss and Riddle all agree that Cello's style is not helping town, which perhaps, I admit, is making me trust them more however even if they disagreed I feel I would still not vote Riddle. Riddle's scumness is low, helpfulness is medium

Kupo: This is the player I don't really understand, I'll thus go for just above medium scum level (I think it pays to be a bit skeptical of everyone) And low helpfulness, probably 1st or 2nd lowest

I imagine a few people will have a beef with this, but my current opinions are out there now. Feel free to argue your case if you feel I have portrayed you wrongly.

 

[X1-12]

Tom. I really don't expect you to reply in a hurry since you caught up all of that so fast, but sometimes that you can before L-Day (18th)

 

[Riddle]

Oh well, I've been playing terrible this game. I'm going to try to find a new lynch target, because cello is not happening.

 

[Purple]

I thought i'd inform you Tom, Daedalus never posted and was replaced almost immediately.

 

[Isuyaru]

Isuyaru: [...] #260 has a case on The_Guide that is apparently better than anyone else's scum-tells.

Where'd this come from? I was responding to a question of why should The_Guide go instead of Cello, or vice versa; not why should The_Guide go over anyone else.

I agree that there isn't a great case on The_Guide, which is why I unvoted him once he was at L-1.

Also, to clear things up, I never offered to hammer Swiss. I assume The_Guide meant to say Vult's offer to hammer.

Are you lurking?

I admit I haven't posted much. The biggest problem I'm having is trying to figure out how I want to join a conversation when I see that everything I had originally wanted to post had already been said by someone else.

And I re-read Writer Kupo's posts. His first post doesn't give me the impression of promising to explain more on Swiss later, but feels more like excuses not to explain it... which isn't really a point in his favor. It was also an FoS rather than a vote. I agree with your points against him overall.

My lynch pool is Guide and Swiss.

Can you explain this more?


@Vult and X1-12: What's your lynch pool right now and why?

 

[Vult Redux]

because cello is not happening.

What gave you THAT impression?

 

[Vult Redux]

@Vult and X1-12: What's your lynch pool right now and why?

Riddle because he's homed in on one trivial/minor/null/etc thing Cello posted and made a tunnel out of it.

Tom's post is cool. WriterKupo was entirely off my radar so it's interesting that he was brought up. I think I'd consider that lynch also.

 

[Circa]

@mod: I'm not in the first post.

Let me use you as an example, if you don't mind. You said "Guide is most likely to come out mafia". Why do you believe this? It could be argued that you were trying to jump on the most convenient lynch, especially considering that you stated that you did not want to have a replacement for him. From his statements, he's probably not going to come back; if we don't replace him, we lynch him.

My belief on why Guide was mafia sat in posts #112 and #118, second paragraph of the former and the entire post of the latter; along with his long disappearance and eventual coming back on post #237. I was skeptical of his willingness to quicklynch in #112, just like I was skeptical of your earlier two. His, however, seemed more scummy to me because he made a weird play in basically asking Swiss if he wanted to be hammered. I didn't know what to make of it, but I knew the move didn't feel right in the pit of my stomach. The feeling got even worse when he started being really WIFOMy with saying that May had every right to vote for him, and then following it up with noting his own contradiction in that he found Swiss to be completely town. I was really skeptical of him, but I wanted him to defend himself first before making that decision. And he already had a lot of people going after him so I wasn't willing to pressure any further. And he didn't post for quite some time, and when he did he requested to be switched out as he was almost surely to be lynched and claimed that he was playing badly. This still kept me skeptical, because he could have just been a bad scum player and was taking one for the team as he got a (hopefully) better player switched in. I don't know if that's even a viable move, but it seems like a pretty good idea if you don't want to get lynched Day 1 as maf. Thus, I said no to the switch. I knew my play was more ballsy than a man with elephantiasis and risky as ****, but I didn't really care either. He was the player I found scummiest and I didn't want him getting away in the event that I was right.

I don't feel Tom is scummy at all though, interestingly enough. So it was just bad play I guess.

Unvote

Also, what is convincing you that Swiss is a likely mafia?

Almost all of Swiss' early posts seemed scummy to me when I was reading them while at the airport, so I had my suspicions on him. I can't tell you why they were scummy though. It was just something about the way he worded everything altogether that made me think so. I then read over everything again the next day and I had myself convinced that he was actually town when I was able to sit down and think a bit. I was then at my friend's yesterday and read all of Swiss' posts after he came back and felt that same weird sense of 'scum aura' that I first got when I read through his posts from before he left. Mind you, I was running on very little sleep, which isn't good for me. I looked at his posts today again with a full night's sleep and a nice refreshing shower and came back with a town conclusion again; although this time it's more because I found myself agreeing with a good portion of the things he's said. So I guess I'll say **** it and go with my in-normal-conditions instincts and believe him to be town. For now.

No one's really asked why I'm skeptical of Riddle I don't think, but I'm still going to give it while I'm giving out everything else. My skepticism of Riddle is based entirely on post #150. What he said made me really ****ing paranoid. We're really good friends, so I would be his easiest attempt at a buddy; and I kinda felt like that's what he was doing. It's not a very good push for him to possibly be mafia, but it ****ing scared me enough to be suspicious at the least. I'm not as suspicious now, but I'm still a little suspicious of him.

Writer Kupo: Why is this guy not in the first post? #149: hot flashes? Girl, then? Anyways, I think they've played before by how they write/type/FoS. If they're a writer, have they competed in WWYP? If not, there is one going right now.

I don't know why I'm not in the first post either. I keep on forgetting to @mod that one, so thanks for reminding me.

I'm a guy, and I don't actually know what hot flashes are/if guys can even get them (or at least I didn't until I read your post and decided to look it up). I just knew if women had them it was more than likely menopause. I figured the name 'hot flash' was one of those rather self-explanatory types of things though, so I used it and included 'or some equivalent to it' if it was really only a woman thing. And then I found out it's basically just excessive sweating, which isn't what I had. -_-

A note: I suck at Biology. It was by far my worst subject and I never knew what the hell was being talked about. I don't even know how I got a C.

And I've honestly never played before. The way I type is just because I do actually want to be a writer, and I know that keeping up with good grammar and having a decently vast vocabulary is a good thing. I get really wordy when I don't know what the **** I'm talking about though, which obviously isn't good and benefits no one in a game like this. I know there's a WWYP going on right now, and I've always wanted to participate. The prompts usually don't interest me though. And even when they do I end up over thinking how creative I need to be and end up with bad writer's block, so I don't write anything.

Another note: I have bad anxiety.

Says the bandwagon on Riddle was harmless and for fun and says Riddle was pacifistic, I don't think that's how it went down, it seemed more like Riddle made a weird *** joke about buddying and people took it very seriously, in fact they compared it to Tom-KevinM and asked him question after question before he said it was a joke.

I'm not sure why I said that when looking back. I guess because I figured it'd be absolutely stupid to lynch Riddle just because he claims that he'd buddy May in his very first post. I guess my view on Riddle's post, though, sits in the fact that I know Riddle, so I never questioned his post as anything but a joke. Obviously others don't know him though.

Says Swiss' bandwagon is more feasible because its more feasible than the Riddle wagon. Also says nothing else. I look forward to what he says about Riddle, defining the "scum aura" on Swiss in actual FACTS. He promises.

I never promised that I'd type it up. The other stuff is explained (in a way that I'm rather sure most won't like; but I can't really explain it and I'm not even going to try) in my response to Cello when he questioned me about it as well.

"I'll be completely honest," when talking about his relationship with Riddle. Why wouldn't you be?

Flavor text. Nothing more, nothing less. I tend to include that specific phrase or other phrases like it without really even noticing. There are a lot of them, so I'm not going to try listing them for you.

#217 comes out and votes Cello_Marl for his aside to Mayling about lining up the lynches, but doesn't even frame it that way. Just talks about WIFOM. That's his (Her?) second post, and has not touched on anything at all related to any players other than Cello-May (with no May), Swiss being scummy but never explained, Riddle being VI.

I went to explain my most possible situation when I finally started to get around to posting, and when I went to explain it in full detail I realized the way I was trying to explain it was going to make me look like an idiot, so I deleted it. And then I just stuck to the stuff that I felt like I could possibly still explain in the current state of mind.

Backed down on Cello and unvoted immediately, saying "youve shown me some sort of light," what?

I just kind of referenced Cello's #228. He says 'if he sees reason', which I changed to 'shown me some sort of light'. Essentially the same thing. The reasoning being that my claim was rather idiotic; something I discovered when I was rethinking my theory and the different theories surrounding it.

What is your vote of The_Guide based on, in 254? Nothing? "is most liktely to come out mafia," because he is gone? You gave reads but you didn't have any of them up except for X1-12.

Explained to Cello, so just look at that portion.

You've been an absolute absence the entire game

I was on a cruise ship for the first three or four days, and then after that I was just lurking in hopes that someone would actually say something that I could hopefully challenge. I don't know how to really scumhunt at all, so I'm going almost entirely off hunches and the way a post makes me feel unless something really just comes out a little too obvious to me; which nothing really did. I got sick of waiting for the biggest scumtells at that current time and decided to go after a post Cello made instead that didn't make me feel too good at all (which I also felt was my biggest chance to make something good of myself; something that didn't happen). Well, that and the fact that Cello's pressuring on others was just confusing me more (I hate reading the same Q&As over and over and over again, so I'd kinda quit paying extreme attention after the first couple throws at each other). This is why my posts have been extremely vague, and I'm sorry for that.

Well, and my mental state tends to be rather unstable, which doesn't help when I try to explain anything because I can very easily lose track mid-way or start trying to contradict myself. So I almost never explain something unless I can base it entirely on fact. It's likely the biggest reason why I'm playing really ****ty as town and not helping town at all. And I'm sorry for that.

I hope I got everything. From now on in I'm definitely going to try posting in A LOT less words (which will be hard, thanks to habit). It seems to be the biggest thing ****ing me up. Well, that and not questioning more. I'll start questioning a lot D2 for sure if I live that long; end of D1 maybe if I find time to think of things to ask that aren't absurd.

And just because I can, one absurd question.

@Tom: Have you ever considered putting a boy as your avi? Or maybe a hawk? Why or why not? I love Chococat to death (he used to be my trusty Pez dispenser until he broke ), so I don't think you should change it. I'm just curious if you've considered the bigger puns.

 

[Swiss]

Kupo, I have to say that half pf what you've posted feels like an appeal to emotion.

You said how "I can very easily lose track mid-way or start trying to contradict myself.". Although this may very well be true about your mental state, I personally believe you - how are we ever to differentiate between scum tell contradictions and your mental state confusing you?

 

[Circa]

Kupo, I have to say that half pf what you've posted feels like an appeal to emotion.

I had nothing factual (on the in-game front) to say that would draw suspicion away from me or toward someone else, so I just paid attention to why my posts made no sense and hoped it would be enough for now. It was more supposed to be metagaming and documentation, because getting lynched as the weakest link wouldn't surprise me at all. I could easily see how you'd take it as an appeal to emotion though.

You said how "I can very easily lose track mid-way or start trying to contradict myself.". Although this may very well be true about your mental state, I personally believe you - how are we ever to differentiate between scum tell contradictions and your mental state confusing you?

You can't and likely won't if I keep posting the way I do. Not going to deny that. Sorry.

 

[X1-12]

@Vult and X1-12: What's your lynch pool right now and why?

currently:

1.) Cello - read my massive post 285, it has a lot on him. You can easily see what is relevant to cello and why I'm voting for him

Cello is the only player I'm willing to lynch at this moment. after this there's nothing solid, I also Don't really want to queue people up


Kupo just is just a bit less useful that the others, there's only a smidgeon in it though. Tom (Guide) =Isu = Vult -all just a bit suspicious, I feel tom might come off this list soon though.


I would also like to see Vult's response, and I wan't to ask you whats your lynch pool Isu?

 

[Isuyaru]

whats your lynch pool Isu?

Riddle: Early in the Day, he seemed entirely focused on defending himself regarding the buddying Mayling statement. Doesn't really contribute anything else until Cello makes his "feel free to hammer [Swiss]" comment, then remains tunneled on Cello until the Day is almost done. (Bonus points for then saying Cello is being unhelpful to town)

You (X1-12): Joined the game by putting suspicion on the guy who had already taken the most heat (Swiss), but with extremely flimsy reasoning. Ignored most of Swiss's play and interactions, and just focused on the fact that he chose to pressure me and had an aggressive style. Bad first impression, and your play since then has either confused me or rubbed me the wrong way. I agree with a number of arguments Cello has made against you as well.

Could also support a Swiss lynch to avoid a No Lynch at deadline. Maybe Writer Kupo as well, not sure. I like Tom's points against Kupo, but don't feel like he should be the play.

 

[Cello_Marl]

@Mod: Why is Tom just an SE?

@Tom: My attitude counts as adamantine for purposes of bypassing damage reduction (or it's a dart-throwing 15th level Fighter with Grand Mastery and a potion of haste).

First, let's look at what your "opinions list" really translates to. You're picking at Writer Kupo and Riddle, definitely weaker players (in strength of personality and sheer ability, respectively), and keeping your opinions on every decent to good player open, with the exception being me. Of course, you couldn't get away with that, since no one with half a brain could believe you wouldn't have an opinion on me (although, interestingly, half of your "analysis of Cello" is really "everyone else's analysis of Cello").

About why I told Town to take Riddle off the lynch queue, it's because I don't think he's scum (as I said before, May (and later Vult) didn't like him for town, so he was a compromise lynch). I was relying on convincing Town he wasn't scum before his actual lynch came up, but if I should die before that had a chance to happen, then I wanted to make sure Town knew my wishes. May, Vult and Isuyaru would have taken up the slack of doing the actual convincing in such a case.

About Swiss, first and foremost, I think he is scum. Next, he thought that the Guide slot was scummier than me (and yet tried to hammer me, lol), not the reverse as you suggested. You kept buttering me up by calling me a great player, and yet you only sided with me because Swiss was so ridiculous? What was so great about my play and ideas then? This is exaggerated to an even further degree when your notes are examined. I see constant pokes at my views, especially as relates to my judgment of Riddle, and absolutely no positive comments.

Actually, throughout all of your notes, the only time you even suggest that an action "seemed town to you" was...Swiss. Funny, that.

About the Guide, ALL the points you made were flat out WRONG. First of all, he was never "won over" by Swiss; he still acknowledged that Swiss's actions were terrible, but he thought they were so terrible that Swiss could never have done it as scum (which is worse than the traditional dumb-or-scum scenario, since it is a free license for scum to pursue their foul agenda without reprisal from a person who thinks that way). Second, Guide didn't "miss the fact that Isu offered to hammer"...for the simple fact that ISUYARU NEVER OFFERED TO HAMMER (his vote was already on Swiss, something Isu pointed out himself)! It didn't happen, and pretending that it did is a major point against you, considering it's your own player slot. That's why May put her vote on Guide in the first place (the later reason was for playing both sides of the aisle). On that note, the other question(s) you are/were probably looking for was/were mine;

...explain to us why you feel [Swiss isn't scum] other than "he didn't play this way before"...if you believe people shouldn't be allowed to "play both sides of the aisle", why are you now permissive of Swiss's behavior, which has allowed him to take no stance on anyone?

Tom cannot answer these questions. If anyone thinks they are of any importance (and I for one do, since they were asked of him RIGHT BEFORE The_Guide decided to skip town and never come back), then the only sure way to get any information about them is to lynch Tom and get his alignment. If we do not lynch Tom for this, then we must ignore everything that the Guide has done so far. There is no in-between. (A cop investigation would get this information too, but for that to occur assumes the cop 1) exists, and 2) isn't Riddle, Tom, or X1-12.)

@Swiss: So, you thought you were lynching me...and you did so because mafia would never NK me? How is that a reasonable argument and how does that mean I'd have to be the D1 lynch? Why did you opt to suddenly "lynch" me rather than talk to Guide's replacement, the player slot which you CLAIM TO FIND THE MOST SUSPICIOUS? We weren't at the end of the Day, so "it's better to get a lynch than go No Lynch" isn't a valid argument. Sidenote: I didn't say it would make you a "bad player" (especially since quick-lynching me would be the best you could do), although I did say it would be suicide.

If you are town - rethink your play style, this game is not just about scum hunting, but helping town in other respects such as not giving off scum tells left right and centre.

If you are scum - props

This made no sense to me. You thought you were lynching me...why did you say "If you are scum - props"? The "if you are town" makes sense from either a town or scum perspective, in a way. But, why would you be congratulating me for getting myself killed if I'm scum? "You got what you deserve" or "here's what Town thinks of you" or something like that makes sense, but not "props". Frankly, it looks more like a hastily added bit to make it look like you didn't explicitly know I was going to flip town.

Also, answer that question in #264, will you? It looks pretty bad when you try to quick hammer like you did without addressing the points against you. Should I use smaller words? (Sidenote: "Penultimate" means "next to last", not "last". That would be "ultimate")

You say Cello is complete scum. You leave for three days. You reread. You say Cello is not scum. You re-reread. You say Cello is scum again, and always looked like scum. Why?

 

[Swiss]

I gotta admit, even though Kupo will contradict himself etc I don't think he is scum.

Ugh..Kupo may be a useful lynch..but I wouldn't waste two townies on that.

Would like to see Cello gone, though I'm really not that sure who the f*ck scum are.

 

[Cello_Marl]

Tomorrow, I'll be at work from about 2:30 pm to 10:00 pm EST (7:30 pm to 3:00 am for X1-12), and 7:30 am to 4:00 pm the next morning (12:30 pm to 9:00 pm in the UK), leaving only 4 hours for me to really be here after work. Further, in addition to that, my father will be visiting for four days starting tomorrow, so I'd rather spend time with him than here.

While it would be best if Swiss or Tom were to be lynched tonight or early tomorrow, we may also want to use our time extension. That way, Tom can get into the groove of the game so he can't claim time problems for getting into the game.

@Mod: Request: Deadline Extension

Unvote Vote Swiss

Swiss is the most likely lynch, so let's just go with that.

 

[Swiss]

@Swiss: So, you thought you were lynching me...and you did so because mafia would never NK me? How is that a reasonable argument and how does that mean I'd have to be the D1 lynch? Why did you opt to suddenly "lynch" me rather than talk to Guide's replacement, the player slot which you CLAIM TO FIND THE MOST SUSPICIOUS? We weren't at the end of the Day, so "it's better to get a lynch than go No Lynch" isn't a valid argument. Sidenote: I didn't say it would make you a "bad player" (especially since quick-lynching me would be the best you could do), although I did say it would be suicide.

I have explained MULTIPLE times why I voted you yet said I thought The_Guide was probably more likely to be scum. IF you are scum the threat you pose to town is FAR LARGER than the threat The_Guide would, I do not think you will be on the lynch block again anytime soon and have the best reason for far (imo) for being a survivor.

Either you are scum, skimming or this is a pathetic attempt to do what I did and tunnel whilst being an irritant.

I'm not irritated by you anymore, your play style is too 2D, imo.

This made no sense to me. You thought you were lynching me...why did you say "If you are scum - props"? The "if you are town" makes sense from either a town or scum perspective, in a way. But, why would you be congratulating me for getting myself killed if I'm scum? "You got what you deserve" or "here's what Town thinks of you" or something like that makes sense, but not "props". Frankly, it looks more like a hastily added bit to make it look like you didn't explicitly know I was going to flip town.

'Cos I've never been less sure of a hammer, so you would have played it well regardless of the fact you got lynched as scum - pay attention plz.

Alternatively your bad town play would have lead to an early mis-lynch..that isn't good for town mate, especially considering I'd have probably been lynched the next day.

Also, answer that question in #264, will you? It looks pretty bad when you try to quick hammer like you did without addressing the points against you.

"But why did you decide to say that I was probably not scum, especially when it is entirely unreasonable to believe I hadn't left at least an impression upon you?"

When I first read through and posted my thoughts (I said they were as much)..I posted the 'middle section'. "I have read through this in decent detail but obv will have missed stuff. I will make a longer post within the hour - I've only just got back and am caked in mud."


At this point I came to the opinion you were simply a player who plays to antagonise, and as such what I previously saw as scummy could merely be you doing precisely what I did at the beginning of the game. Saying someone "Probably isn't scum" DOES NOT EQUATE TO "Cello hasn't done anything scummy to leave a bad impression"..why on earth would ANYONE think that!? Especially someone who is meant to be good at the game.

Should I use smaller words? (Sidenote: "Penultimate" means "next to last", not "last". That would be "ultimate")

I am entirely aware of the definition of penultimate, and infact had you bothered to apply your definition and actually look at the PENULTIMATE vote score at that point (post #266), you would see and will still be able to see the error to which I was referring - I was simply being polite at the end as it doesn't really matter at this (and at that) point.

Please, less of the brash attitude and a little more thought in the game would be nice - you do nothing to give the impression you are playing the game with the goal of hunting scum, merely the impression of the goal of lynching me. Admittedly, this does seem to be your goal, but I can assure you, that is a foolish thing to do.

You say Cello is complete scum. You leave for three days. You reread. You say Cello is not scum. You re-reread. You say Cello is scum again, and always looked like scum. Why?

As my first re-read was not in total detail, it was in 'decent' detail, thus my opinion is liable to change as I consider more things or 'read in detail sufficient for this game'. I clearly stated this and have no idea how you so spectacularly managed to miss such a simple point.

Any more questions that haven;'t already been covered?

 

[Cello_Marl]

@Swiss: Just to be sure, when you say "survivor", do you mean "an alive player" or the role?

IF you are scum the threat you pose to town is FAR LARGER than the threat The_Guide would, I do not think you will be on the lynch block again anytime soon and have the best reason for far (imo) for being a survivor.

Tom is a much better player than me, especially since a great deal of the very legitimate anti-Guide sentiment was dissipated by him in the space of a single post. Does the same logic for your vote on me now apply to him? He's much more dangerous than me...so why is your vote on me instead of him?

'Cos I've never been less sure of a hammer, so you would have played it well regardless of the fact you got lynched as scum - pay attention plz.

AHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA!

This is the stupidest reasoning you've ever given about anything, ever. I'm content to just make fun of you on this one; you've done all that needs to be done in terms of showing how this is unreasonable.

On reconsideration, this is a newbie game, so I should be more thorough (although in a normal game, I'd have just said "AHAHAHAHA" and left it at that.) This "point" is ridiculous; Swiss's personal megalomania reaches a high that far surpasses anything that he claims I've achieved. Scum getting themselves killed on Day 1 is a spectacular failure (something Swiss will soon be experiencing), and hardly deserving of "props". Swiss has already shown his complete ineptitude at scumhunting (or rather, producing a believable facsimile), and the idea that scum that only manages to get lynched when he is involved is laughable at best. His explanation is not reasonable, and should be disregarded.

Alternatively your bad town play would have lead to an early mis-lynch..that isn't good for town mate, especially considering I'd have probably been lynched the next day.

So, how does this have anything to do with the "if Cello is scum" portion?

At this point I came to the opinion you were simply a player who plays to antagonise, and as such what I previously saw as scummy could merely be you doing precisely what I did at the beginning of the game. Saying someone "Probably isn't scum" DOES NOT EQUATE TO "Cello hasn't done anything scummy to leave a bad impression"..why on earth would ANYONE think that!? Especially someone who is meant to be good at the game.

But, "probably isn't scum" does mean "is probably town", and you still haven't explained how you came to that conclusion from your first reread (if you did in fact reread twice. You don't strike me as that diligent). Please give specific points that brought you to the conclusion that I was "probably not scum", then subsequently scum again. "I changed my mind" isn't enough; tell us exactly what it was.

I was simply being polite at the end as it doesn't really matter at this (and at that) point.

If it didn't matter, why bother to point it out, especially considering that such unnecessary action is one of the reasons you dislike my play?

 

[Purple]

Tomorrow, I'll be at work from about 2:30 pm to 10:00 pm EST (7:30 pm to 3:00 am for X1-12), and 7:30 am to 4:00 pm the next morning (12:30 pm to 9:00 pm in the UK), leaving only 4 hours for me to really be here after work. Further, in addition to that, my father will be visiting for four days starting tomorrow, so I'd rather spend time with him than here.

While it would be best if Swiss or Tom were to be lynched tonight or early tomorrow, we may also want to use our time extension. That way, Tom can get into the groove of the game so he can't claim time problems for getting into the game.

@Mod: Request: Deadline Extension

Unvote Vote Swiss

Swiss is the most likely lynch, so let's just go with that.

I have already given the group a six day deadline extension being it's Day 1 of a newbie game.

 

[Purple]

Who will survive...​

Votes​

Cello_Marl ($$$)* Riddle, X1-12, Swiss
Vult Redux ()*
Mayling ()*
Tom ($) *Mayling
X1-12 ()*
Isuyaru()*
Swiss ($)* Cello Marl
Riddle ($$) Vult_Redux, Isuyaru*
Writer Kupo ($) Tom*​

Not Voting: no one ()​

It takes 5/9 to eliminate a player.
Deadline: 06/18/10 8:00pm EST​

...the liar game.​

 

[Circa]

@mod: You forgot to include my unvote from Tom and Tom's vote on me. Thank ya kindly.

 

[Cello_Marl]

Also, "You were afraid that town would forget about Swiss. Have you forgotten about him, according to that definition?"

If anything, the fact that I started to be less suspicious of him is proof that my fears were well founded.

Why does X1-12 have to stop skimming as scum?

This is a newbie game. The point of his skimming was made by my comment, and so I moved on to my secondary objective as an IC; instructing newbie players in how to play. (although, personally, I think it should be the primary objective)

@Swiss:

Tom is a much better player than me...He's much more dangerous than me...so why is your vote on me instead of him?

I'm going to add a little more to this. Polling the group, we can easily see that Riddle and X1-12 find Tom to be a far more competent player than me, after literally one post. He also managed to create a Writer Kupo kill sentiment where none existed before...while simultaneously convincing Writer Kupo to take his vote off of him! That's some strong influence...and the sign of a powerful player. He's definitely got me beat in the experience department, as he can be measured in years whereas I had only heard of mafia, much less played, merely months ago. See how many times you find "Tom is awesome" on these forums, compared to my literally being put on "ignore" during a game.

You are voting for me because I am "a dangerous player if I'm scum". As we can see that Tom can influence others more effectively than I can, and you think he's more likely to be scum, why aren't you voting for Tom?

@Everyone that isn't Swiss: Can we go ahead and lynch Swiss now? Thanks.

 

[Swiss]

@ Cello's most recent post. I had that logic WRT to The_Guide, not Tom. I said you would be a more dangerous scum than The_Guide. Tom's most recent post appeared townie to me, at least townie enough to allow me not to want to lynch toDay. You clearly knew the former point, don't try and make bs cases on me, please.


I have no idea why your "AHAHAHAHHAHAHA" post has been made. I gave you props for making me so confused (assuming a scum flip on you), not for not getting lynched...

@Swiss: Just to be sure, when you say "survivor", do you mean "an alive player" or the role?

'Alive' - Now you mention it I am vaguely aware of the role name, but have no idea what it is.

If it didn't matter, why bother to point it out, especially considering that such unnecessary action is one of the reasons you dislike my play?

It wasn't an unnecessary action - I felt that town knowing who you voted was useful, and still do. Turns out he just forgot to remove your name and didn't have the dollar sign there, so it can be figured out, but is misleading.


Cello, why are you continuously asking me questions which simply don't stand up under scrutiny?

I've admitted to the errors I've made - why aren't you doing the same?

Why is it that you ask me questions which, regardless of the answer I give, would never equate to me being scum OR town? (Such as the recent vote count case he put on me).

 

[Swiss]

I don't feel I clarified my first point well enough, and I really should.

You are voting for me because I am "a dangerous player if I'm scum". As we can see that Tom can influence others more effectively than I can, and you think he's more likely to be scum, why aren't you voting for Tom?


Where did I say Tom was more likely to be scum than you? Has not Tom made a long, introductory, sh*t stirring post since I last gave my opinion? You yourself said it was an influential post, so why do you assume I have not changed my opinion and attempt to, through your incorrect assumption, make a case on me being inconsistent by voting you not Tom.

It is precisely because of reasons such as this that I AM voting you, I don't appreciate being tunnelled and it is NOT a pro town strategy.

I admit my early play does look AWFUL, albeit that there is a town explanation, there is also a strong scum explanation. But I honestly don't see what I've done after that to warrant this level of tunneling. I have explained and answered as much as I can of what you've asked me, and if anyone can show me a question which I haven't sufficiently answered then I would like to see it.

I've explained my suspicion of you and why, I've explained why I voted The_Guide before I went AFK, I've explained why I voted you even when I thought The_Guide was more likely to be scum, I've explained why I pressured Isu so unreasonably, I've actually asked other players if I'm being unreasonable when dealing with you - I DO NOT want to tunnel you, I DO NOT feel tunneling is pro town, I've explained why I stopped pressuring Isu when 'a town would have continued', I've explained pretty much EVERYTHING that you have asked me.

You haven't given any answer to your proven skimming, no reason as to why you ask questions agreed by other players to already have been answered by me, no reason as to why you ask me questions irrelevant to my alignment, no cessation of the personal insults and no logical play (you just asked me a question and without waiting for the answer, which I have provided, asked people to bandwagon and lynch me - why even bother asking me a question if it won't effect anything). You are keeping your cards close to your chest -why? If you are town surely you have nothing to hide by answering my questions in an honest, straightforward manner, regardless of my alignment.


At this point in time you are the only player voting me. I know some other players are suspicious of me (to the degree they'd consider lynching me) and I agree I HAVE played poorly and as such implied scumminess, but I do not feel I am worthy of a lynch, the constant pressure you have put on me coupled with the incessant questioning makes it appear as of the 'case' on me is far stronger than it is.


As for who I want to lynch - You and I am re-reading all this Riddle stuff tonight.

 

[Mayling]

It's not him being rude I have a problem with, it's been his irrelevant questioning and ignoring answers.

You keep saying Cello is asking irrelevant questions but that is not the case at all. In fact, I see many of the people on Cello's wagon saying it's cause his questions are useless, pointless, etc. But are you sure you just don't want to answer them? I don't understand how a question such as "Why did you change your thinking; nothing has changed" is pointless, which is a question Cello asked can be boiled down to.

My lynch pool is Guide and Swiss.

What happened to Cello?

Sorry this post took a while. The way Cello posts kinda really gets under your blood; even when it's simple questions. Just something about it. Anyway, I was only questioning you, Cello, because my main two targets for lynch at the time were Guide and Swiss; the former of which wasn't posting and the latter of which was V/LA. I guess you'd call it a first attempt to make some sort of feasible argument against something; which obviously didn't work out at all.

Your main targets were The Guide and Swiss but you haven't ever voted these two, have you? Yet you voted cello? Why?


Vote: The_Guide[/QUOTE]

Things I would like changed:

1) No buddying
2) EXPLAIN why things are scummy
3) No ad hominem defenses
4) Don't post walls of text, they don't help town imo. Conciseness is good, get to the point.

Widdle Riddle, I think you have what it takes to be a great player. However, something I noticed about you is you really try to play by the book.

You say "X is a scumtell, therefore you are scummy. Therefore you are scum." However, that's not always the case. Try to look outside the box and understand why PEOPLE do the things PEOPLE do. Or. Even that PARTICULAR PERSON.

Here yourself you say you want to change these things but at large you are guilty of them yourself, especially number two where you won't make a case against Cello.

Will you PLEASE STOP asking the most pointless and ******** questions. I may have to hammer you by default, imo you damage the town process far too much.

This was really bad to sad. :I Dislike dislike.

Mayling: Votes Riddle for "buddying her." I don't understand her motives in #70. In #72 she distances herself from Riddle's buddying, disproving any real reason for his attitude (besides that Riddle is a pre-adolescent boy and Mayling is a chibikawaiigirl). #93 when did that happen? #111-112 votes The_Guide for being contradictory. #167: thinks X1-12 is a good play, Swiss is town but not cooperating, likes Vult.

#70 was my thoughts before doing a re-read.

#93 I'm referring to things such as this:

Hi, Vult! Nice of you to join us. Anyone else want on? We have cookies.

@Vult: Talk about Isuyaru. Or question him. Either is fine.

I also remember Cello saying something along the lines of "I'm used to Vult asking a lot of questions but he doesn't seem to be doing that a lot." I can't ifnd the post right now tho.

I also didn't say I liked Vult.

As for #167 this is what I said about Vult

I like what Vult said about Riddle, although it doesn't just apply to Riddle but pretty much everyone voting Cello sans Swiss, whose vote reeks majorly of a towny OMGUS in the way the argument has formed and played out.

I don't think saying I like something someone said equates to liking /them./

 

[Cello_Marl]

@Swiss: News flash: Whatever alignment The_Guide was, Tom now is. He didn't magically get a new alignment. If you were suspicious of The_Guide, then you should be suspicious of Tom.

Ah, but you say that you are no longer suspicious of Tom due to his wonderful post. What did he say that refuted the points against The_Guide? Be specific, preferably by citing all of the problems that you had with The_Guide and then the point Tom made that made it magically go away. It certainly can't be a "general feel" for his posts, since he's had...one.

I've explained pretty much EVERYTHING that you have asked me.

Not everything. You have a terrible habit of evading the most important ones.

What specifically changed your mind about my alignment during each re-read, both toward town then toward scum?

Do you consistently reread the thread? Why did you reread the whole thread twice in the space of 3 hours? How is that even reasonable, and as such, why should we believe that you did? Also, why did you try to hammer me before you answered my questions in #264? Did you feel you didn't have to explain yourself, and if so, why were you "keeping your cards close to your chest"?

 

[Cello_Marl]

Kupo, Riddle, Isuyaru, Mayling, X1-12, and Vult, put your votes on Swiss, and if you won't, then tell me why.

 

[X1-12]

Kupo, Riddle, Isuyaru, Mayling, X1-12, and Vult, put your votes on Swiss, and if you won't, then tell me why.

I've already explained my thoughts on Swiss, quite clearly. What did you hope to accomplish by asking me to vote for him?

Swiss is the most likely lynch, so let's just go with that.

How? Riddle already had 2 votes and swiss had none.

 

[Swiss]

You keep saying Cello is asking irrelevant questions but that is not the case at all. In fact, I see many of the people on Cello's wagon saying it's cause his questions are useless, pointless, etc. But are you sure you just don't want to answer them? I don't understand how a question such as "Why did you change your thinking; nothing has changed" is pointless, which is a question Cello asked can be boiled down to.
/

Questions like "Why did you specifically challenge me to point out why Isuyaru wasn't scum, if pressuring Isuyaru was your goal? More to the point, why didn't you continue to pressure Isuyaru to talk until you got the information that you needed regardless of what anyone else may have said, since you knew you'd receive flak for your actions? Yes, I've asked this before, but I never got an answer."

Point 1) I was still in 'pressure him like a d*ck' mode.' So by making that post I was trying to imply he was guilty until proven innocent and that the burden of proof of innocence was on you/him.

Point 2) I answered clearly that I was L-1, and as such felt that I could be lynched far too easily, who the hell wants to be lynched? I had answered this before.


'Kay that wasn;t the best example, clicked on a random page and got this (#156)

You claimed to have been unable to form an opinion on Isuyaru, yet you claimed you found him to be "not scummy".


Well, yeah. I didn't find him scummy...

Imo, any question that has already been answered or basically calls me an idiot "omg you don't know the definition of penultimate" (amusingly it was Cello who was wrong) is irrelevant. Mayling, if you truly believe those posts to be useful, then I would like to know why.

WRT quote at top: Yes, that is one question he has asked, I never said THAT was pointless and I did answer it.

I explained that when I first read the thread in ACTUAL DETAIL (i.e. second read) I revised my opinion. Cello has now asked what specifically changed my mind which I didn't acknowledge in my first read which I did in my second, and I am about to answer him.

Initially, your second post about Popcorn mafia (in which I am sure you did perform admirably) made me question how scummy you truly were. It really gave off the vibe of a guy pumped up about his scum hunting skills (#156) and who now knows he can identify scum really quickly. Thus I figured you could easily have simply locked your sights on to me using the (narrow but not necessarily always poor) logic that you had done it before and so would do it again.

I still am really disturbed by Swiss's play, but I'm still open to some room for doubt, if he actually bothers to answer/respond to my questions (if you really are town, *****ing and moaning about being pursued is a ****ty way to deal with it. Just answer questions truthfully). Right now, I'm interested in X1 as well as Guide.

When I first read this I thought that was quite a townie thing to say (open to doubt etc).

However you have previously admitted being "single minded if not wishy washy" about the whole thing and I am sure (though I can't remember ehere) you admitted that you were tunneling me. How open do doubt were you really? Why pretend you were more open than you truly were? Imo another case of you lying. Coupled with the fact you were complaining I wasn't answering my questions after I stated I had LEFT FOR THE FESTIVAL implied you were simply trying to poison people's tastes against me.

Reading your case on X1-12 really made me concerned, you were pushing it beyond all reasonable limits, and while I appreciate that as a player you probably push like this a lot, I do not see why you tried to make a case out of the guy not being familiar with the game (i.e. a BS case) when there were LEGITIMATE cases out there to be pursued.



Cello, out of interest, suppose I were to be lynched and flip town, what would your analysis of this whole play be?

 

[Riddle]

I think today's best lynch is either Swiss or Cello and I honestly don't care which it is. Killing either of them would gain us a LOT of information and really help us puzzle out everyones' allignments.

Plus they're both scummy

 

[Cello_Marl]

@Swiss: Whenever you've "answered" the most important questions, you've almost always just said it was a "general feel" whenever I've asked for specifics, or flat out ignored portions of the question, such as when I asked why we should believe you were willing to read close to 300 posts (and very large ones at that) TWICE in three hours. (I believe you are lying about doing that, not just because it's you specifically, but because it's extremely unreasonable in general)

Ah, but you say that you are no longer suspicious of Tom due to his wonderful post. What did he say that refuted the points against The_Guide? Be specific, preferably by citing all of the problems that you had with The_Guide and then the point Tom made that made it magically go away.

Do you consistently reread the thread? Why did you reread the whole thread twice in the space of 3 hours? How is that even reasonable, and as such, why should we believe that you did? Also, why did you try to hammer me before you answered my questions in #264? Did you feel you didn't have to explain yourself, and if so, why were you "keeping your cards close to your chest"?

@Mayling: If Town decides to lynch me, after Dad's visit (or during, whatever happens) will you make sure that Town forces Swiss to actually answer these questions? Or lynch him.

Back @Swiss:

However you have previously admitted being "single minded if not wishy washy" about the whole thing and I am sure (though I can't remember ehere) you admitted that you were tunneling me. How open do doubt were you really? Why pretend you were more open than you truly were? Imo another case of you lying. Coupled with the fact you were complaining I wasn't answering my questions after I stated I had LEFT FOR THE FESTIVAL implied you were simply trying to poison people's tastes against me.

At one point, I thought X1-12 and Guide were the scum. That means I thought you weren't (even though I still had suspicions). If that isn't open to doubt, I don't know what is.

As far as your V/LA is concerned, you'd already claimed you were going to leave then come back once. Why should I have thought the second time would be any different? More importantly, if I have a point to make, I will make it. I'm not going to let people believe I was fine with your lack of response for three days when I was not. Finally, how does attacking your position have anything to do with "simply" poisoning your credibility? It's directly relevant to this game, not an attack on your capabilities.

Reading your case on X1-12 really made me concerned, you were pushing it beyond all reasonable limits, and while I appreciate that as a player you probably push like this a lot, I do not see why you tried to make a case out of the guy not being familiar with the game (i.e. a BS case) when there were LEGITIMATE cases out there to be pursued.

So, there were legitimate cases? "Cases" being the operative word. There was the one on Guide, but who else was there? You only pursued me and Guide...if there was any other legitimate case, who was it and why didn't you pursue it?

@X1-12: There is new material in play. You should consider it. Also, it was a clarion call for the lynch, which you should have realized considering you wanted to get the lynch in before the last day.

@Tom: Why was Swiss the only person you noted as saying something that seemed town, and yet you wanted to lynch him?

@All: I might be able to get on for half an hour from 9:30 to 10:00 tonight. Other than that, I'm pretty much done for the Day. If you have something to ask me, you'd better do it before then.

If for some reason I get lynched, Tom and Swiss better be next.

 

[Mayling]

Wow. I thought I posted in here earlier. I hope I didn't accidentally post that in another thread that has NOTHING to do with the game.

I said I was calling a The_Tom/Kupo team possibly. The_Tom/Swiss. Hm. Maybe.

 

[Swiss]

@Swiss: Whenever you've "answered" the most important questions, you've almost always just said it was a "general feel" whenever I've asked for specifics, or flat out ignored portions of the question, such as when I asked why we should believe you were willing to read close to 300 posts (and very large ones at that) TWICE in three hours. (I believe you are lying about doing that, not just because it's you specifically, but because it's extremely unreasonable in general)

Well hopefully the answer above was finally sufficient.

Ah, but you say that you are no longer suspicious of Tom due to his wonderful post. What did he say that refuted the points against The_Guide? Be specific, preferably by citing all of the problems that you had with The_Guide and then the point Tom made that made it magically go away.

I said it seemed townie. Doesn't mean the dude is 100% town in my book.

Do you consistently reread the thread? Why did you reread the whole thread twice in the space of 3 hours? How is that even reasonable, and as such, why should we believe that you did? Also, why did you try to hammer me before you answered my questions in #264? Did you feel you didn't have to explain yourself, and if so, why were you "keeping your cards close to your chest"?

I don't re-read loads, but I've had to do a fair bit wrt your questions.

I read it once in detail, and I read THE PARTS I HAD MISSED WHILE V/LA. Admittedly I might not have specified that, but I think I did.

Back @Swiss:

As far as your V/LA is concerned, you'd already claimed you were going to leave then come back once. Why should I have thought the second time would be any different? More importantly, if I have a point to make, I will make it. I'm not going to let people believe I was fine with your lack of response for three days when I was not. Finally, how does attacking your position have anything to do with "simply" poisoning your credibility? It's directly relevant to this game, not an attack on your capabilities.

No, I stated I was LA for one day before I was finally gone. I clearly stated this so I have no idea what you're on about.

I don't have a problem that you made points about me while I was away, but when your point is that I'm not answering your questions - it does seema little unfair.

So, there were legitimate cases? "Cases" being the operative word. There was the one on Guide, but who else was there? You only pursued me and Guide...if there was any other legitimate case, who was it and why didn't you pursue it?

Loads of people had cases on them, the Riddle malarkie, The_Guide points, you, me (ofc we have to exclude those)..probably others, even if I'm wrong here and there weren't cases out there or waiting to be made (pretty sure there were), then my point still stands, albeit to a lesser degree.


Also, something just occured to me, The_Guide, when he did play, has played VERY differently to how he did in our last game - I know metagaming probably isn't the best idea, but it is at least a pointer at him of scum, imo. I know I keep flitting between my strength of conviction here.

If for some reason I get lynched, Tom and Swiss better be next.

I'm actually willing to say the same, with the obvious name swap occurring.

@ Cello, can you answer this question:

Cello, out of interest, suppose I were to be lynched and flip town, what would your analysis of this whole play be?

 

[X1-12]

@X1-12: There is new material in play. You should consider it. Also, it was a clarion call for the lynch, which you should have realized considering you wanted to get the lynch in before the last day.

I have considered it. But if pages and pages or your arguments have not convinced for the first ~300 posts of the game, They wont start convincing me now. And I do want to get the lynch in before time is up. But I also want to lynch the right person, i.e you


I really would urge people to start finally making a decision to lynch. Cello is closest, followed by Riddle.

mainly @Vult + Isu + Kupo, will any of you support a Cello lynch? I can understand you want to investigate others, but with the deadline looming a decision must be made.

 

[Cello_Marl]

Whoa, wait a sec.

You said you changed your mind about me due to the Popcorn statement. But, that was made after you were gone (you did complain about that, specifically). But, just now, you claim to have only read through the thread once.

I read it once in detail, and I read THE PARTS I HAD MISSED WHILE V/LA. Admittedly I might not have specified that, but I think I did.

Here is where you said you reread, and where you say you were worried about me.

Re-read.

What I really, really don't like is the vehemence with which Cello has pushed this lynch. I also do not like the 'play well' pressure Cello tried to put on me to not lynch him. I am concerned Cello could be scum diverting the game in whichever way he pleases and as such, although I am more confident of The_Guide being scum, I feel the risk of Cello being scum is too great to the future gain of town.

How and when, then, did you change your mind about me? It had to have been after you came back, but you claim it wasn't.

It only makes sense for you to have changed your mind about me TWICE SINCE YOU CAME BACK if you had reread twice. But, by your own statement, you've only reread once.

You are lying. You are scum.

 

[Swiss]

Huh? Popcorn majorly influenced my opinion of you.

Even if I was scum WHY ON EARTH WOULD I LIE ABOUT THE NUMBER OF TIME I'VE READ THE THREAD?!?

I did re-read twice, I said that - I never 'contradicted' myself and said I re-read it once. I did say "I read it once in detail" but that doesn't mean I ONLY read it once, merely once in detail. Seriously, wtf.

Will you please answer my question - I have asked you TWICE and you have ignored it completely, why would a townie refuse to answer questions? What is it you object to about answering my questions? Even if were to flip scum, your refusal to answer my questions benefits town in no way, if I flip town in is certain to get you lynched. Why not safeguard yourself to some degree in case I AM town?

Out of the two of us, you have tunneled and refused to answer questions, I have been tunneled and answered as many as I can - do you really expect players to believe that I am the scum here?

 

[Isuyaru]

Unvote Vote: Swiss

I'm starting to agree that people should just decide between Cello or Swiss at this point.

I said I was calling a The_Tom/Kupo team possibly. The_Tom/Swiss. Hm. Maybe.

What's your reasoning for these? Particularly the Tom/Swiss one.