Newbie Mafia 3 | Jungle Republic | Ovah. Who won?

[Xiivi]

unvote:

I want Tandora's & -Hilt-'s opinions & Mister Eric's if he ever makes a post.

 

[#HBC | marshy]

15th votecount

----------

frozenflame751 (1) - Cello_Marl
Cello_Marl (2) - frozenflame751, Sold2
soaring-raptor-blast (2) - -Hilt-, Mister Eric
Sold2 (3) - soaring-raptor-blast, §teel, Tandora
Not voting: (2) - Ronike, Xiivi

----------

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch!

 

[Xiivi]

I unvoted Marsh Tarsh ;__;

unvote: Sold2

 

[Steel]

we have one day. xiivi what if none or not all of them post which is somewhat likely, who do you want to kill. why did you unvote, do you feel s2 is being helpful and established a "presence" in the game as you said a page ago?

 

[Xiivi]

I want to know their opinions if at all possible before making my choice. (Especially Tandora's actually.) If none of them post, then I'll make my choice, but I'd still love to hear from them. Thanks.

After all, I gave my lynch-possibles and rather-not-lynch-possibles not too long ago (it hasn't changed much), and I'd like to see there's and see what they are thinking.

 

[Tandora]

I want to know their opinions if at all possible before making my choice. (Especially Tandora's actually.) If none of them post, then I'll make my choice, but I'd still love to hear from them. Thanks.

After all, I gave my lynch-possibles and rather-not-lynch-possibles not too long ago (it hasn't changed much), and I'd like to see there's and see what they are thinking.

I am still more pro-SRB lynch than anything else. His arguments have been pretty soft and flip floppy to me. (i.e. May's innocent, but Steel is scummy to me?). However, when I saw vote leaving SRB, I was willing to go to S2 as a pressure vote.

I admit hesitation to doing this because I really felt there had been no solid focus on S2 previously. There had been commentary, but no real debate. With approximately 3 days to make a defense and get others involved, I was feeling a like jerk voting for him. It would be the equivalent of doing a pressure vote with five minutes left on AiMafia. However, I made the vote because as I have previously stated, unless I have strong proof for a LYLO, I'll join a majority vote.

S2's defense has seen weak. I don't know if they are weak because S2 is scummy or if it is because he has had such a short time period to work with.

The Cello and FF debate has really muddied D2. We got bogged down with tons of text and what boiled down to a one-to-one debate. I feel most posters felt relatively quickly that the two debaters were T-v-T, but no one was really able to just let the debate go. We lost a lot of time and focus in the sea of text.

I really thought we had a final choice with SRB when he was stuck at L-1. Xiivi finally got SRB to vote for S2 after SRB got into a L-1 situation. This shows that SRB will vote when someone admits to being scummy (a rather rare situation I assume) and when his own butt is on the line. This makes SRB a weak voter in my opinion. Granted, it is hard to get him to vote, but when he did he felt like a manipulated vote. If Xiivi is scum, he could be guaranteed an extra vote from SRB. Thus, even if SRB is town, would he be good for town? I don't know.

I am starting to realize that forum mafia prefers to wait until the wire to get as much information as possible. I think that is the only reason S2 is still alive. Both Hilt and Steel have voiced pro-S2 lynch, but neither have voted. Obviously, I'm gonna have a vote in play by late game, which is definitely where we are.

I also wonder how much real life has interfered. It seems to me that many players are saying they are very busy, which is reasonable. It is the holiday season and finals for those in school. I know I have been busy getting ready for Christmas, work, and getting moved into my new home. Normally, I would rather end the day on time, but should we consider a time extension allowing for the holidays? If the rules were most votes at the deadline gets lynched, I would say no extension. However, no majority means no lynch. Is this a state we want to be in?

Mr Eric's posts have been pretty short and "I'm busy" quality. He has been saying that since the beginning of day one. If he is still claiming that after D3 starts, I'm going to be very suspicious.

 

[soaring-raptor-blast]

@tandora: i prefer cautious to weak....

@mod: may I be replaced? no offense but I hate this game more and more everytime I look at it. its become less of a "fun" thing to do, and more of a chore. I'm sorry T_T

:embarrass

 

[DtJ Hilt]

unvote:

I want Tandora's & -Hilt-'s opinions & Mister Eric's if he ever makes a post.

Alright, just got home >.< I have to sleep soon so this is going to be a short answer. I read over most of the discussion between S2, FF, and Cello. I'll be reading through it again, though I won't have the time to until the day's over, since it was done at the end of the day and I have a full day tomorrow.

At the top of my lynch list is S2, tbh. unvote. vote soldier 2. You said that you lost interest in the game and that's why you kept yourself from posting for awhile, but you never requsted a replacement, regardless of how busy you've been. You asked a few questions, based on other people's suspicions/reasonings toward them, but, as you said, they weren't paid much attention. I'm not saying that you're lying about you being busy, but rather that you're not being helpful. Basically what I'm thinking is, are you going to fade back again after the conversation on you dies down? Because if that's the case, I'd rather just lynch you if "don't have interest" in the game.

However, with raptor's current act at resignation, perhaps it would be better to kill him off and prevent the replacement even having to take place. It's an idea.

With that said, I'm completely all for an S2 or Raptor Lynch, as I am now. I'm fully willing to jump back on the Raptor Train if that would be the case, if I'm able to get online. I should be able to get a weak connection during the tournament tomorrow, but I don't know. If that's the case, I'll check back in here before the day is over.

And with that, I'm off to get ready for bed.

I'm sorry you aren't enjoying the game, Matthew.

 

[Ronike]

We're outta time guys, and Im too busy to strongly consider who I want to lynch, so I think I'm going to trust FF's judgement. I'm really sorry I don't have the time.

Vote: Cello

 

[Xiivi]

frozenflame751 (1) - Cello_Marl2
Cello_Marl (3) - frozenflame7511, Sold27, Ronike9
soaring-raptor-blast (1) - Mister Eric3
Sold2 (4) - soaring-raptor-blast4, §teel5, Tandora6, -Hilt-8
Not voting: (1) - Xiivi

Cello push seems forced after FF wagon degeneration. Goes back to my feeling that neither should be lynched today. Sold2 lynch is good.

unvote: vote: Sold2

Cello, the deadline is less than 24 hours away (last minute of today [Sat] I believe). The two big opposing wagons are you and Sold2 at this point. To ensure the day ends in a lynch it would be of best interest for you to vote Sold2 now, thanks.

I'd love Mister Eric's opinions, but I doubt he'll be on in time knowing his inactivity. I'll probably be seeing him later tonight though! :D

 

[Tandora]

frozenflame751 (1) - Cello_Marl2
Cello_Marl (3) - frozenflame7511, Sold27, Ronike9
soaring-raptor-blast (1) - Mister Eric3
Sold2 (4) - soaring-raptor-blast4, §teel5, Tandora6, -Hilt-8
Not voting: (1) - Xiivi

Cello push seems forced after FF wagon degeneration. Goes back to my feeling that neither should be lynched today. Sold2 lynch is good.

unvote: vote: Sold2

Cello, the deadline is less than 24 hours away (last minute of today [Sat] I believe). The two big opposing wagons are you and Sold2 at this point. To ensure the day ends in a lynch it would be of best interest for you to vote Sold2 now, thanks.

I'd love Mister Eric's opinions, but I doubt he'll be on in time knowing his inactivity. I'll probably be seeing him later tonight though! :D

What's up with the color codes and numbers?

Also, in all fairness, should SRB's vote count at this point since he has asked to be replaced?

 

[Ronike]

Hey guys, you all do know our deadline is tonight, right? So lets decide who we are lynching, like now. Cello, or S2 seem like our options, so lets F'in get to it.

 

[#HBC | marshy]

SwordsRbroken replaces soaring-raptor-blast. Say hi! The deadline has been extended to the last second of Tuesday, December 15 EST

16th votecount

----------

frozenflame751 (1) - Cello_Marl
Cello_Marl (3) - frozenflame751, Sold2, Ronike
SwordsRbroken (1) - Mister Eric
Sold2 (5) - SwordsRbroken, §teel, Tandora, -Hilt- Xiivi

----------

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch!

 

[Xiivi]

Hilt's vote on Soldier 2 didn't count? :/

Ronike, what's your opinion on a Sold2 lynch?

 

[#HBC | marshy]

hey xiivi i think you need to look at the post above you

 

[Xiivi]

silly marshmellow <3

roniker want to hammer Sold2? :D

 

[SwordsRbroken]

Hey guys, i'm the new replacement! Expect a post from me soon!

 

[Ronike]

Not that we have more time now. Want to hear swords input.

 

[SwordsRbroken]

Ugh, i knew i should have read this thread daily even though i didn't think i'd play in it.

I'll sugarcoat this for you. Bless your heart.

I'll rewrite the above section in simpler terms so you can understand.
I'm also putting this in a separate post and including the original so people can compare my "rewrite" to it
without going through the muck of any other posts.



Delvro suggested/claimed that his being alive increased town's chances of victory at endgame.
You thought Delvro thought he had a genuine shot at convincing us to leave him alive, and
that it was not a scheme to manipulate the town.

I asked if you thought that was the case because he is a math major, then mentioned that you tried it yourself.
I then said there was no way your group would have left you alive in that game, but suggested that you may have
thought that we would not lynch him because the circumstances were different, and he couldn't affect our decisions.

I said that his reasoning was incorrect because the scenarios he described in which he was dead supposed a mafia
member would be alive instead.

The LESS mafia members there are, the MORE likely a townie will be targetted by the wolf night kill.
The MORE mafia members there are, the LESS likely a townie will be targetted by the wolf night kill.

If you consider there are 7 townies and 3 mafia, 4 and 1 will have died respectively to get to his scenario of 3v2.
It's an 80% chance that Delvro's death would have been substitued with a townie, and not a mafia.

Ergo, 80% of the time, the final scenario would have been 4 townies versus 1 mafia.
His scenario would put us at 3 townies versus 1 mafia.

4 townies versus 1 mafia has better odds of success for town than 3 townies versus 1 mafia.

I ended by saying we don't have much time.

I hope this was helpful. I added some numbers to help you comprehend the math a little better.



Now that that business is out of the way, I'll address your response.
How do you know what his intentions were? Moreover, create a voting block against wolves?
That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard, ever.
If Delvro created a voting block with his group, then if Delvro said, "That's not a wolf." then the town
would KNOW that person was one of his scummates.
(Now I kind of wish we HAD kept him alive. That would have been a jewel to see.)
Why in the WORLD would the townies go No Lynch? The only kill is the lynch by this point.
At that point, the Seer is a confirmable townie, but his or her investigation is USELESS since it only finds wolves.

This is just plain dumb. How are we supposed to know if it's not a wolf? Townie A doesn't know who the other townies are! Besides, leaving Delvro alive would have been a mistake. He might have convinced us a townie was a werewolf, and then, whoops we mislynched.

On top of this, your metagaming point against FF i don't like. Playstyles change many times. Look at KK in test subject mafia. He started out playing like KevinM. Then he started to actually back up his votes with logic. Metagaming is not a good thing to base a lynch off of. Also, you've been really tunneling on FF for the majority of D2.

As for the table-top games, I'm proud to say I've never played one. I'm far too cool for that.

Me too! :D

Okay, looking over the FF vs Cello argument. One of the reasons I believed Frozen, to be honest, was actually his tone. He sounded angry during a majority of the post, and I was thinking scum would react much more calmly, but as a townie, I could believe him being frustrated. Mayling(and I think Cello too) made a good point of Frozen "throwing his weight" around, or appealing to authority. I think he could possibly have purposefully taken an angry tone, just to give the image of this pro player being pestered by some newbie who has no idea what he's doing.

Vote FrozenFlame
My main deal with FrozenFlame right now was how he contradicted himself. I personally don't like Cello's use of the metagaming argument, but I'll agree that although it isn't exactly reliable, it doesn't mean that Cello is wrong. I feel that it was more of a general trend, than a precise playstyle, but yes it seems to fit how Frozen plays as "scum." More importantly, though, he clearly did use metagaming before, and just put it aside. On top of this, Cello made some other good arguments.

Earlier you had said that you didn't like Cello's arguments and you agreed with Frozen. Now you like Cello's argument and have a problem with frozen.

As for who I feel is a better lynch target than myself, I feel Cello more than anybody else.

When Frozen had clarified on the metagaming, and how what he did was not metagaming, I was willing to consider him leaning town after he answered that last question about skimming. I just wanted to see that one get answered with something reasonable/not entirely scummy, but he never did it.

I wasn't sure what to think of Cello until around his 3rd offense. I felt it was kinda silly for him to attack FrozenFlame for absolutely eveerything. Like, anything Frozen posted in any given defense, I think Cello had tried to make into something scummy. I mean, he gave a pretty good opinion with some of the observations, but far too many of them were just unnecessary, aimed at perfectly fine defenses.

Whilst i agree that cello has been tunneling big-time on Frozen, it seems like when the frozen wagon stopped, you hopped right back on that Cello lynch.

At this point, i think i'm fine with a S2 lynch or a Cello lynch. That's my two cents for now. *falls asleep on computer*

 

[Steel]

ronike hammer him.

 

[Steel]

oh nevermind, just saw we have more time

 

[DtJ S2n]

At the top of my lynch list is S2, tbh. unvote. vote soldier 2. You said that you lost interest in the game and that's why you kept yourself from posting for awhile, but you never requsted a replacement, regardless of how busy you've been. You asked a few questions, based on other people's suspicions/reasonings toward them, but, as you said, they weren't paid much attention. I'm not saying that you're lying about you being busy, but rather that you're not being helpful. Basically what I'm thinking is, are you going to fade back again after the conversation on you dies down? Because if that's the case, I'd rather just lynch you if "don't have interest" in the game.

With that said, I'm completely all for an S2 or Raptor Lynch, as I am now. I'm fully willing to jump back on the Raptor Train if that would be the case, if I'm able to get online. I should be able to get a weak connection during the tournament tomorrow, but I don't know. If that's the case, I'll check back in here before the day is over.

Hilt, it's not that I don't have interest in the game, it's that I didn't have interest in the game. I felt like I was talking to myself, which isn't very entertaining. However, looking back, I think a reason I was being ignored is that I hadn't made a "presence" for myself.

Two things I'd like to know. What's your opinion on Cello? Why did you mention that I never requested a replacement, but you didn't say the same to Mister Eric any of the times he said he's been too busy?

Earlier you had said that you didn't like Cello's arguments and you agreed with Frozen. Now you like Cello's argument and have a problem with frozen.

Whilst i agree that cello has been tunneling big-time on Frozen, it seems like when the frozen wagon stopped, you hopped right back on that Cello lynch.

I didn't like Cello's arguments, because I read them as solely being metagaming, which I've never heard good things about.

When you woke up this morning, what pant leg did you put on first? If you are right-handed, it's almost a certainty that it was your right leg. Why? Because people develop habits and preferences based on nature and nurture. Habits such as that which you demonstrated by your play a scant 2~3 weeks ago.

However, this made a lot of sense to me. I do indeed put my right pant leg on first, every time, and I've never noticed I did. It makes enough sense to me that if you have habits like that you don't notice in your everyday life, that everyone has habits they don't notice when they play mafia too. He also hadn't brought up the contradiction point beforehand, which I thought was a good point.

You've still yet to distinguish the difference between universal habits in simple playstyle, and habits that are indicative of alignment. I've provided examples and explanations of how the habits you're latching on to a universal aspects of my recent play, yet you continue to contend that they are evidence that supports a notion that I'm scum, which is entirely NOT the case. You've identified some of my habits and I'm not denying that there are aspects of my play that are found in all games of my play, however, just because I have habits does not mean that said habits indicate scum alignment, because they don't, and I've shown you why this isn't the case.

This originally didn't occur to me. Sticking with the pants metaphor, I never thought "sure, I put on my right pant leg first every morning, and it's a habit that I didn't notice, but does that mean that it's a habit that means anything?"

Metagaming: making decisions based on events of earlier games as well as the current one. I.e. using past game specific behavior to judge whether or not a player is a certain alignment or role based on their performance as that alignment or role in the past.

My analysis of Kevin was NOT metagaming. It was me expressing the belief that Kevin was playing just like he always does. He was not departing from his UNIVERSAL playstyle. I was NOT judging him based on game specific information. I made a judgment call based on how Kevin ALWAYS plays. This is NOT metagaming, it was a stylistic reaffirmation. Big difference. All of your accusation of me are based on drawing connections between certain behavior and their coincidence with my mafia alignment, and ultimately concluding that said actions are a RESULT of my alignment when such a relationship does not exist. You assume causality when it is simply coincidence. My analysis of KevinM makes no such assertion. I simply state he his not deviating from his natural playstyle. If I had noticed and obvious change in style, there would be reason to be suspicious, but such was not the case.

And this is what made me change my mind about Frozen contradicting himself. After this, I just wanted to be sure and get an answer to that skimming question.

And now I'm back to Cello, because I feel he's the most suspicious person. He eventually just started making a lot of poor points, and was in general just tunneling. I've already explained that SRB is really just the scummiest player ever. He'll make the same mistakes as town as he would mafia. From my experience, you can only really tell what his alignment is through process of elimination, and I wouldn't want to lynch him unless I felt nobody else was as scummy. Nobody else sticks out in my head as extremely scummy.

 

[Cello_Marl]

This is just plain dumb. How are we supposed to know if it's not a wolf? Townie A doesn't know who the other townies are! Besides, leaving Delvro alive would have been a mistake. He might have convinced us a townie was a werewolf, and then, whoops we mislynched.

On top of this, your metagaming point against FF i don't like. Playstyles change many times. Look at KK in test subject mafia. He started out playing like KevinM. Then he started to actually back up his votes with logic. Metagaming is not a good thing to base a lynch off of. Also, you've been really tunneling on FF for the majority of D2.

We wouldn't know if a person was a wolf any more than Delvro would have. The idea Frozen put forth of a "voting block" would be that Delvro could definitively tell the town that a person was not a wolf if that person was one of his partners. The voting block is further complicated by WIFOMy arguments about if he "cleared" a townie in this way, and so on.
Getting caught up in those lines of thought is a waste of time. I wanted to disregard his arguments precisely because we would be wasting time over arguing about the math behind it, as well as Delvro's motivations. It was my own fault for getting dragged into into arguing with Frozen about that.
Just to be sure you realize this, but I NEVER supported the idea of keeping Delvro alive. No one here truly did.

Feel free to disregard any part of my argument that you don't like. I don't care whether or not you believe Frozen is scum for the exact same reason that I do, as long as you come to the same conclusion as me. Don't let me cloud your judgment.

Still, in regards to the particular example you chose about KK, his early argument was "you guys are brothers, and could be cheating". Later, he went with "his claim is poor, and I can tell because I have a role pm in front of me that doesn't seem in line with what he's said". He didn't say it in exactly that way, but it was evident. Unfortunately, we don't have the luxury of using a person's role/name to catch him or her in the way you were caught, since this is an open game.

Regardless, the major difference between my point and KK's original one is that my point used a single person's recent games, and was concerned with showing how he acted recently. KK's point about you was something immutable, since you couldn't change the fact that you and Nick are brothers.

Frozen said against my line of reasoning was that he could "maintain a consistent playstyle across games regardless of alignment". From what I've seen, that's not the case. From what he's said, that's not the case. I do believe he plays consistently. Just not regardless of alignment.

After all, in Frozen's last post, he provides an example where he admits to either acting inconsistently or lying. If he would have pointed out and actively encouraged the town to dismiss the metagaming argument in FF7 as a townie, then he's lying about having consistent play. If he would not have, then his earlier statement about pointing out and discouraging metagaming regardless of who it's directed at, as well as his addendum saying it's based on severity, is a lie.

Unless, of course, FF wants to bury us in more 'discussion' about how "consistent" is "truly" defined.

I've been focused on Frozen for all of D2 because I think he's scum. I'm trying to get him lynched. I didn't want to muddy the waters with other suspicions at the time. From my point of view, Frozen active lurked pretty badly on D1 (doubly suspicious for the very reason of his IC status; i.e. the ones here to show us newbies the ropes), and it seemed to me the town wouldn't dare question any of his actions (much less lynch him), especially after the exchange between him and Hilt. Maybe my fear wasn't justified, and with different players than before, we'll see.



@S2, what points have I made that are so poor? I asked you to explain why you thought the math argument was silly, and all you said was, "That's not what I'm talking about". Then, what were you talking about?
"Skimming" is an actual accusation, especially since we've been pointing out when it occurs. "Poor points" isn't.

Oh, on the note of my mistake in the "More importantly, though, he {Cello} clearly did use metagaming before, and just put it aside." I thought S2 meant me in that post, and that he was referencing how my argument was going away from the points presented from other games and focusing more on FF's responses. "Just because he's metagaming, doesn't mean he's wrong." was what FF had said, and then went on to bash metagaming some more. Since I thought S2 had just said that I was moving away from that argument, that's the very reason I said it was something that showed FF's skimming.

Moving on,

From what I see, Cello is voting FrozenFlame based off of a general trend of his past actions, compared to how he's playing now. This is what's been referred to as metagaming if I understood correctly.

Here, you've said exactly what I'd been doing. Whether the correct term to use was metagaming or not is immaterial. But, what's disturbing to me is that when you accepted Frozen's definition of metagaming, you seem to have assumed that what he was doing was now defined according to his view, and not simply in need of a more appropriate term. Especially since you saw that Frozen was doing actually doing what I was contending.

To put it another way, Person 1 falsely believes A = B, and shows that Person 2 is doing A. In response, Person 2 states/shows that B = C without any doubt, and says that he did not do C. Why then, do you assume A = C, and that therefore, Person 2 did not do A?


@Xiivi, why did you claim Frozen was tunnel visioned on me? I mean, of course he has to address me since I launched an attack against him. But, hasn't he gone out of his way to state multiple times how he thinks SRB would have been a good lynch? Still, a nice, even block of text looks aesthetically pleasing, doesn't it?

On a final note, I work tomorrow morning until 3 pm, and on Tuesday from 2-10 pm. I'll be back in time to read over any comments made during that time, but not to provide any responses. I will answer anything asked at that time during Twilight though.

 

[DtJ Hilt]

Two things I'd like to know. What's your opinion on Cello? Why did you mention that I never requested a replacement, but you didn't say the same to Mister Eric any of the times he said he's been too busy?

Because Eric showed a lot of interest in the game. SRB requested out of the game because he didn't like it, and when he was inactive, it was because of that reason. When Eric was inactive, it wasn't because he didn't like the game, but instead because he was busy. From what you wrote, and how I took it, you would have fit into both of those categories, being slightly busy (though not as much so) and having lost interest, which was the more dominant reason (although I understand your reasoning a bit more, now). unvote since we have more time and I'm not rushed.

As for my opinion on Cello, I'm really not sure. I want to say I think he's scummier than FF but I don't know for sure and am uneasy. Him treating FF's lynch as a mission that he had to finish now and him picking apart every single thing that FF said as well as the extensive metagaming going on makes me feel really uneasy. Also, the fact that he focuses entirely on FF, rarely posting about any other player but him annoys me and is the main reason I'm suspicious of him.

I've already explained that SRB is really just the scummiest player ever. He'll make the same mistakes as town as he would mafia. From my experience, you can only really tell what his alignment is through process of elimination, and I wouldn't want to lynch him unless I felt nobody else was as scummy. Nobody else sticks out in my head as extremely scummy.

For the record, I still hold my previous suspicions against raptor, although I suppose I'll give Swords a chance to redeem himself. However, I'm not going to use raptor's naturally scummy playstyle as a reason to not lynch him. That doesn't at all mean he isn't playing as mafia now, it just means he's in his playstyle. On the contrary, if we always excused his scummy playstyle as him just being himself, each game, what would stop him from changing? I don't want a metagame backfire to cause town to lose.

 

[Tandora]

As for my opinion on Cello, I'm really not sure. I want to say I think he's scummier than FF but I don't know for sure and am uneasy. Him treating FF's lynch as a mission that he had to finish now and him picking apart every single thing that FF said as well as the extensive metagaming going on makes me feel really uneasy. Also, the fact that he focuses entirely on FF, rarely posting about any other player but him annoys me and is the main reason I'm suspicious of him.

I know that some players here don't care for personal information regarding players, but I felt a need to speak up here. Cello does have a tendency to not let go of something once he has his teeth sunk into it. His tenacity can be very admirable, tbh, but it can also make him be overly stubborn. ^_~

For the record, I still hold my previous suspicions against raptor, although I suppose I'll give Swords a chance to redeem himself. However, I'm not going to use raptor's naturally scummy playstyle as a reason to not lynch him. That doesn't at all mean he isn't playing as mafia now, it just means he's in his playstyle. On the contrary, if we always excused his scummy playstyle as him just being himself, each game, what would stop him from changing? I don't want a metagame backfire to cause town to lose.

This is how I feel right now. I would like to see Sword's commentary before pursuing what his role is. In terms of metagaming, would it be metagaming to use what we know of his predecessor to determine his alignment?

I feel rather dull about the whole metagaming definition because it conflicts with a previous definition for me. It's similar to learning a new phone number after having the same one for over ten years. Which means I keep wanting to use the old, more familiar meaning instead of the new one. I'm sure everyone is tired of "Wut's metagaming, lulz?" so a simple yes or no will suffice.

 

[SwordsRbroken]

Raptor's logic was sort of bad. He posted quite a few one-liners and wasn't that active. He has probably the scummiest playstyle i've seen in a while. SRB was saying stuff like "Yay! Mayling doesn't think i'm scum anymore!" C'mon, you really need to step up your playstyle SRB. He wasn't really trying to compile a case against anyone either, just going on wagons that looked like they had potential. *sigh* I'm sort of in a tight spot right now because of all these mistakes.

More later.

 

[Mister Eric]

catching up

 

[Mister Eric]

I swear if that Mister Eric doesn't make a response in....
Oh wait! thats me! and o wait! I am! :D

I'll get this going by first backing up my johns:
@S2, Tandora and the like:
I have debated long and hard on getting a replacement because it was simply too much of a hassle to stay involved with this game and still keep my priorities straight. The reason I'm so uptight about finals anyways is due to getting suspended from the college of engineering and losing financial aid all due to lack of interest in school and poorly organizing how I should go about things. But I'm here now! I know I said I'd be back yesterday for sure, but I didn't get home until 7am (left tournament at 12, had to drop one guy off, got pulled over for speeding, had to pick another guy up, ran into black ice and had to back track an hour to get home safely, stopped to wake myself up several times and then had to wait on the guy's mom to meet me....long effing night ugh.) in result, I slept most of the day Sunday and helped my mom out with the tree and stuff what little time she was able to come in from work (she works 4 hrs away). I know I didn't have to go into that much detail, but I really just want to get it out there that my excuses for inactivity seem legit to me, and I hope you all can understand too. Thank you to those that have <3 And since I saw you guys being patient with me, I figured I might at least be able to make it until now without there being too much heat under my seat. Now I'm back, I'm free, I'm cool...fire away.

Alright dudes, no more johns.

I began reading through at about the beginning of page 23. As winded as I already was from the C v FF debate, I was just soooo excited to see more of that along the long haul of catching up. Just because it was annoying to be patient and read through without losing interest doesn't mean I didn't get feels from both people and this is what they are:

Cello,
To me this debate has boiled down to the title: Tunnel Vision vs. Shew Fly Don't Bother Me.
I agree with others that say Cello is just going after every little thing that he can to find some dirt on FF. And like Hilt said, it's "annoying." Granted, I don't believe anti-town would really work that hard for a lynch because they'd be too afraid of the heat they'd get and not be fully able to defend themselves on why the heavy loads of focus is just going to one person. Though I'm inexperienced, I'd bet that scum would much rather coat tail most of their way to victory instead of going for lead after lead because that just shines the light on them. Maybe I got that wrong, maybe I didn't...please tell me. I'm having a bit more fun learning about the game now.

As for my opinion on Cello, I'm really not sure. I want to say I think he's scummier than FF but I don't know for sure and am uneasy. Him treating FF's lynch as a mission that he had to finish now and him picking apart every single thing that FF said as well as the extensive metagaming going on makes me feel really uneasy. Also, the fact that he focuses entirely on FF, rarely posting about any other player but him annoys me and is the main reason I'm suspicious of him.

Agreed.

And before I forget:

I know that some players here don't care for personal information regarding players, but I felt a need to speak up here. Cello does have a tendency to not let go of something once he has his teeth sunk into it. His tenacity can be very admirable, tbh, but it can also make him be overly stubborn. ^_~

I understand here.
How do you know Cello personally? o.O

FF,
It's been a lot easier reading through your responses simply because it involves more people and it doesn't always seem you're grasping at straws. It has took a little more effort to find anything about your responses that seem fishy to me and that's probably because Cello is just taking stabs to keep you busy now and not thinking outside of the box enough to really pull out anything on you that could put you in a tight spot. If any tight spot exists, it's probably the little time you have to keep defending yourself since you said you've been busy. The fishyness I did find was just your attitude on the whole deal. It came off to me as insulting and maybe I just don't have a heart of stone for mafia just yet but, it seems you have a lack of respect for Cello. Every bit of information he throws down is poor or irrelevant usually.

These observations has swayed me to thinking that this debate is no longer S v T but T v T

this is an overall feel I have about these two. If you want me to go back and dig up quotes through their piles of text, I will be more than unhappy to. lol. (I will, just trying to throw stuff in right now that I caught at first glance).


Xivii
It's been quite interesting watching Xivii begin trends of mass voting for people. As of right now it doesn't seem too harmful to me, it's just a pressure presser. But this 'power' of swaying people to vote diff people could be scary if hes able to take pressure off of a fellow scum-mate just by the command of "go do this!" For now though, it's fun to watch Quick question, what was with the little colored numbers frame you posted up? Was that the order you'd like to lynch in? I'm unsure on that, but it sure was pretty.

SRB
Never would get around to his defense, leaving it up to other people to interrogate him. I also at first thought that would be a good way to answer suspicions, but really , taking acton shows more character than answering a questionare. He did, though, decide to up and leave the game probably either due to save his team's butt (if he was wolf, boy would that be crucial to screw things up on D2) or he was in fact just no enjoying it. We have been hard on him but I believe he deserved it for leaving more holes than filling them. I'm fine though with having SwordRbroken have a chance to take a stance. Bc even if SRB was town it seemed that everyone was fine with getting him out because he wasnt healthy for the end-game. Maybe this dude might be.

S2
He's been really noncontribuitive until this mass wave of votes came into play. Now he's here, he's there, he's everywhere. Though I do pardon your busy johns, I don't pardon your lack of interest ones. Either get in or get out. Don't be interested just bc the heat is on you now.

Tandora
Reminds me a bit like S2. Just judging from her habits of posting and sort of her attitude. I have nothing on her really though except for the want of seeing where she goes with a little pressure on her.For now, I'm for the S2 lynch, for later, my interests are toward Tandora.


I have to go for now, but this pretty well where I stand. It's hard to cover everything covering the past week so I didn't bother with excessive quoting. I will though if requested and when I have more time. (which is so much more often now, tho i like to keep busy with mmo's and the like).

I'd be happy to lay down the hammer for S2 but only when people are ready for this action or an alternative.

ty marshy for extending d2 <3

unvote

 

[Ronike]

Stop. ..

 

[Mister Eric]

Hammer time? xD

 

[Tandora]

I swear if that Mister Eric doesn't make a response in....
Oh wait! thats me! and o wait! I am! :D

I'll get this going by first backing up my johns:
@S2, Tandora and the like:
I have debated long and hard on getting a replacement because it was simply too much of a hassle to stay involved with this game and still keep my priorities straight. The reason I'm so uptight about finals anyways is due to getting suspended from the college of engineering and losing financial aid all due to lack of interest in school and poorly organizing how I should go about things. But I'm here now! I know I said I'd be back yesterday for sure, but I didn't get home until 7am (left tournament at 12, had to drop one guy off, got pulled over for speeding, had to pick another guy up, ran into black ice and had to back track an hour to get home safely, stopped to wake myself up several times and then had to wait on the guy's mom to meet me....long effing night ugh.) in result, I slept most of the day Sunday and helped my mom out with the tree and stuff what little time she was able to come in from work (she works 4 hrs away). I know I didn't have to go into that much detail, but I really just want to get it out there that my excuses for inactivity seem legit to me, and I hope you all can understand too. Thank you to those that have <3 And since I saw you guys being patient with me, I figured I might at least be able to make it until now without there being too much heat under my seat. Now I'm back, I'm free, I'm cool...fire away.

Sorry school is so rough. I completely support school before gaming. I have been part of a gaming club for ten years now and every year I tell freshmen to STUDY!!! I've seen too many drop outs to not say something.

You have definitely given us a mouthful with your return!

I understand here.
How do you know Cello personally? o.O

He's my little brother.

FF,
It's been a lot easier reading through your responses simply because it involves more people and it doesn't always seem you're grasping at straws. It has took a little more effort to find anything about your responses that seem fishy to me and that's probably because Cello is just taking stabs to keep you busy now and not thinking outside of the box enough to really pull out anything on you that could put you in a tight spot. If any tight spot exists, it's probably the little time you have to keep defending yourself since you said you've been busy. The fishyness I did find was just your attitude on the whole deal. It came off to me as insulting and maybe I just don't have a heart of stone for mafia just yet but, it seems you have a lack of respect for Cello. Every bit of information he throws down is poor or irrelevant usually.

QFT^

Tandora
Reminds me a bit like S2. Just judging from her habits of posting and sort of her attitude. I have nothing on her really though except for the want of seeing where she goes with a little pressure on her.For now, I'm for the S2 lynch, for later, my interests are toward Tandora.

I originally came into the game with more of a "let's go attitude". However, D1's aggressive playstyles left a bad taste in my mouth. I was worried that I was becoming too emotionally involved in an internet game. With the pressures of buying a house, moving, and living with my mom again for the first time in ten years, I decided that it was better to become an observer for the time being. I could probably list ten more huge stressors, but I am sure everyone here gets my point.

I came to realize how much different AiMafia is from Forum mafia and decided to take more of a back seat with D2 and see how things went. Cello and FF actually gave me a chance to be more of an observer with little guilt.

I have every intention of being more active and even more proactive on D3 now that I have a better feel for how the flow of the game goes. I realize I've been following Xiivi's lead on votes a lot which makes me look fickle, but I didn't feel authoritative enough to lead myself and I wanted to guarantee a lynch (for reasons previously stated). I felt if I couldn't lead then at least I could follow. I would much rather be a bandwagoner than a fence sitter in the current situation. I realize it is a bad mentality, but currently I didn't want to be "Hey, why am I all alone on this guy?" for votes.

ty marshy for extending d2 <3

unvote

I agree with this sentiment. Also, I want to welcome Sword to our game. I hope he doesn't feel too overwhelmed with all the backlog.

 

[Mister Eric]

He's my little brother.

Holey moley, how many of MayMay's family plays?! lol

 

[Ronike]

Hammertime

Unvote Vote: S2

 

[Mister Eric]

Charlie or Jay?

 

[Steel]

its about time.

are you guys all one big family? wtf

mister eric i have no clue who charlie or jay are please use swf names in the future

 

[Mister Eric]

I know of mayling's / tandora's bros but i didnt know cello was one of them. charlie and jay are their names. im not sure which one cello is tho. prob should have pm'd and asked her. looks like the day is done finally! g'night guys

 

[Ronike]

Wait, Cello is your brother too?! Jesus ****in christ... Well I wonder who's gonna last til endgame...

 

[DtJ Hilt]

Cello is Charlie, Jay plays with us in aim sometimes, though.

Speaking of which, unlike some, I'm not completely convinced that it's TvT. I still have a feeling that Cello is scum, based on how he lead the lynch parade in D2. My suspicions on him aren't as high as mine were on SRB or Mayling :/ And to a lesser extent, S2.

But as for Cello, he's already expressed how he won't contribute or mention much about his suspicions of other players until FF is lynched. He's seemingly convinced himself that FF is scum and doesn't plan to leave the path of his lynch.

Also, iirc Ronike's vote wasn't hammer, I unvoted in my last post after I realized the time extension. However, since it's now closing in on the end of the day once again, vote s2. Sorry to see you go, bro :/ I joined this game for you

 

[Xiivi]

frozenflame751 (1) - Cello_Marl2
Cello_Marl (2) - frozenflame7511, Sold26
Sold2 (6) - SwordsRBroken3, §teel4, Tandora5, Xiivi7, Ronike8, -Hilt-9
Not voting (1) - Mister Eric0

frozenflame751 (1) - Cello_Marl2
Cello_Marl (2) - frozenflame7511, Sold26
Sold2 (6) - SwordsRBroken3, §teel4, Tandora5, Xiivi7, Ronike8, -Hilt-9
Not voting (1) - Mister Eric0

 

[SwordsRbroken]

Well, there he goes.

Sold2, any last comments?