Newbie Mafia 12 FMP Fumoffu!: Game over!

[ranmaru]

Ok.

@Soren:

give three-four points as to why you think JTB is scum. Be detailed.

Also give JTB quotes of you scumhunting.

@JTB:

Please give quotes of you scumhunting.

Also give your stances.

 

[JTB]

I doubt I have time to pull up my quotes before laptop dies, but the majority of my posts @ soren have been scumhunting last page. I don't think he's seen it yet though.

Once I finish my whole read through, I'll make my big case, but I was hoping to wait until D3 to do this.

Scum - X1, Soren

Scum read on Soren becomes even more solid if X1 flips scum.

Town - Soup, Kuz, Ran
Null - Tery, Seikend

off the top of my head, need to look into AA but haven't gotten to the pages with his wagon yet

 

[Blacknight99923]

Your previous posts stated you disliked people asking if they were scummy because they changed personalities.

You then asked me why I thought you were scummy.

I then had posted I hadn't felt like you were scum hunting

you then procede to act like you are.

The way I see this is that you already stated why you dislike it when people ask because of the effect it causes on scum. You then get called out on something, and start to act that way.

I see that a deliberate action by your part to stop acting scummy.

Along with this you have evidence presented by Soupamario and Kuz detaling their suspicions. Its true that your previous actions may have been somewhat excusable by the fact you can't start a wagon by yourself. Unfortunately for your case X1 is basically considered scum by everyone in the game currently. While it may be purely coinicidental it does not support your case. I could be wrong but I did not see you Vote X1 or scum hunt him after his super scummy post was revealed. If you have these posts. Post them

 

[JTB]

I see that a deliberate action by your part to stop acting scummy.

LMAO

Tell me, how the hell should I have acted instead? Should I have continued to act scummy?

I didn't push you on that point earlier because it's a stupid point to push, but now you are pushing me on it.

I voted X1 btw.

 

[JTB]

And you STILL haven't realized that I'm exposing you as opportunistic scum.

brb

 

[Blacknight99923]

And you STILL haven't realized that I'm exposing you as opportunistic scum.

brb

This is gonna be good.

The more I press your buttons the more aggressive about being pro town you get

 

[Blacknight99923]

Meaning your personality becomes more and more aggressive the further this conversation goes on.

Your personality change is becoming increasingly obvious.

 

[JTB]

My becoming more aggressive is a scum tell?

Quite the case you have there!

 

[Blacknight99923]

My becoming more aggressive is a scum tell?

Quite the case you have there!

You haven't been so hellbent on trying to prove anyone's scum until now, when

A .I've posted that you haven't been scum hunting

B .you have 3 votes on you.

C. I only see you making any arguments about me being scum, I am also currently the most vocal at you being scum. It is logical for the person who is accused to then counter accuse so as to shed doubt on the accuser's (in this case my) arguments.

D. You also feel the need to label me as scum before you've Linked posts that your innocent.

Do these posts not exist and therefore you physically can't link them? So you feel your only option for survival is to then place blame on me?

 

[Blacknight99923]

I doubt I have time to pull up my quotes before laptop dies, but the majority of my posts @ soren have been scumhunting last page. I don't think he's seen it yet though.

Once I finish my whole read through, I'll make my big case, but I was hoping to wait until D3 to do this.

Scum - X1, Soren

Scum read on Soren becomes even more solid if X1 flips scum.
\

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12536845&postcount=977
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12560295&postcount=1011

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12595851&postcount=1244

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12607627&postcount=1387


I have never drifted from X1 being scum. 2 of these posts were before I was able to become active.

 

[Blacknight99923]

Along with this its been consistent that I have always supported X1 being lynched.

Kuz even posted a meme about it.

 

[JTB]

I can't respond to everything because I'm on my phone , but why did you bring up your vote on x1 in regards to that quote

 

[Blacknight99923]

so I've been out I apologize for missing out on some epic discussion.

X1's the manipulator from what I see, which means he either needs to manipulate the game to survive (aka mafia) or he just prefers it.

whats your guys thoughts?

I can't respond to everything because I'm on my phone , but why did you bring up your vote on x1 in regards to that quote

Because that was my first active quote.

 

[Blacknight99923]

My quote in the post above me is purely accidental.

It is by no means trying to reference it in my post

 

[Fynal]

from what i'v gathered, JTB claims he:
-was sure kuz was town, but was suspicious of very-townie people from meta, so wanted a solid-er read on him
-didn't buy into X1's case on kuz, but was willing to go with it to wagon kuz for being too townie
-decided it'd be best not to go against kuz once kuz retaliated against X1, and so went against X1 instead
please correct me if any of the above is wrong.

JTB, why did you choose to agree with an accusation you thought was crap against a town read of yours...
...instead of questioning the accuser?

was one instance of meta, in which a different person in a similar situation was scum, really enough?

or am i misunderstanding this, and you found X1's overall case bad, but his initial post solid?

 

[Blacknight99923]

To be honest JTB if you want to show us your town you should stop dodging our requests by asking me questions, to which I've responded to everytime.

I understand your on a phone so take as long as you need.

 

[Blacknight99923]

oh wait ranmaru asked if I had quotes of me scum hunting.

Brb

 

[Blacknight99923]

No townie would have an issue being copped, so yeah I'm down

By that I mean your claim.

please and thank you

I'm down for everyone copying their role

What does that even mean, lol?

your opposed to copying and pasting your roll?

Oh you mean mass claiming?

No I don't want that done toDay. Was planning on doing it toMorrow.

If everyone claims toDay it is possible that scum have powers that could mess with our town ones. If scum don't know who these people are (the town prs), they won't be able to mess with them.

And they won't tommorow?

Or do you want to play that card after someones lynched?

I want another Night of unspoiled Night actions.

toMorrow we will be down to enough people that I think mass claiming will do us some good and help us clear certain people and let us lynch between the questionables.

I'm curious as to why you'd go and post your role AA but not post any more despite being in this thread.

Sorry, did you want me to c+p my role PM?

Now you post immediately after being double called out

Wait, why wouldn't you copy and paste your name?

If your town you wouldn't need to edit

could you please explain to us why you changed your mind Kuz?

RE: asianaussie's read. First of all he claimed a pro-town main character which I doubt would have been given to a scum player. Secondly, and more importantly, he claimed town vanilla specifically. You notice in the sample role pm how the sample vanilla role is specifically worded "Town Vanilla" and not "Vanilla Townie" (like it normally is). asianaussie correctly claimed Town Vanilla without being prompted by anyone to re-check the sample PM.

I noticed the inconsistency when X1 claimed. He claimed VT, vanilla townie specifically. This is not the sample role pm vt claim but I didn't bring it up when it first happened because I wanted to see if anyone followed suit.

I also thought about the possibility that AA played smart and looked up the sample role pm, just to be safe before fake claiming. However, if scum was smart enough to go to those lengths, he would have followed suit when I asked him if he copied and pasted his role name directly from his role pm. He would have wanted to solidy that he didnt go the extra step and looked up the sample PM and simply say that copied directly from his role pm, thus thinking he would be 100% legit.

As for RE Soren: I just get that vibe.

then if you don't think AA is scum then why haven't you changed your vote back to X1

Oh forgot to leave off this point. Once X1 had claimed the vanilla role "VT" any scum who would later claim the vanilla role would follow suit and claim VT because no one corrected X1 when he did it.

It shows that AA legitimately had "Town Vanilla" in his role PM.

@Soren: I was getting to that, gosh

Schniezell *glares*

This also makes me worry a bit.

AA and Soren being town means that even if scum was X1 and Tery, one of the people I previously cleared is scum.

Mannnnn, now I gotta go through all my reads again <_<

Shneizel El Britannia Commands you

Do you think X1 is scum?

My vote has never changed, so yes. Especially with the other scum pick currently cleared.

I thought I did.

I'll look in the OP to see how to format.

Fynal post. I understand Terywj has a lot of posts to make up.

Now its your turn to vote Kuz.

Or are you having some second thoughts?

Just thinking things through, trying to find the scum I place in with town.

I guess I blew too many minds with my clear.

yea.

you can say that again.

not buying this one kuz. Several unprovable assumptions forming a clear in the face of scummy play.

fynal you've spent a lot of time lurking today. Why weren't you trying to help us scum hunt?

I could be wrong but I suspect you've changed from being visible to invisible.

If your so active in this thread why aren't you posting more?

Not an assumption, really. If anything I'm surprised you didn't pick up on the main inconsistency. X1 claimed the wrong type of vanilla. Ill get to that later though.

I am not expecting to you to be completely convinced he's town. Its just how I view him now. I don't like how he left the thread as soon as I cleared him. I still want him to respond to all the points I brought up against him from 1346 and whatnot, but I doubt ill want him going toDay.

everyone is going to say they are vanilla

Very well then.

I just wanted to know if you'd respond but your alabi is very believable.

still the X1 inconsistency is really bugging me.

He probably had to go to his profile to look at his character, he then went and typed it out incorrectly.
he could have just copied and pasted if he had nothing to hide and this wouldn't be an issue.


@everyone

If you feel like we shouldn't lynch X1 toDay please post why.

i haven't heard of that either.

Kuz if your confused why haven't you defaulted back to X1?

Cuz I don't wanna yet D:

I seriously need to figure some other things out before I will be comfortable ending the Day.

Cop AA
lynch X1

Nah AA is town.

Cop like Tery or JTB.

why not cop fynal

and are you opposed to you yourself being copped?

Nope. Cop me at will.

Why don't you object?

People may have underlying suspicions that I am trying to lead them astray. If the cop feels like I am someone he would feel better about knowing is town, let him cop me. Its dumb in the sense that he is wasting an investigation on me when he could be using it to find scum from the pool I just mentioned, but I wouldn't oppose it if its something that needs to happen.

You have to understand that you currently dominate the game if it so happens your scum we are in a very bad situation.

At the same time your towns biggest potential asset to scum hunting. I agree with your reasoning its better to cop someone from your pool list, however in the event that you lynch a townie would you agree to be copped?

I agree with this.

Well I'm not scum so you don't have to worry about that.

In the event that we lynch town or mafia, the cop should investigate the person he feels that knowing that person's alignment will benefit town most as a whole.

If we lynch a townie, he might think I am scum manipulating everyone and thus investigate me. Which is fine, but not optimal.

I just really want someone to flip scum to I can re-read them goddamit

you can't honestly expect me to believe this. No one here is going to claim their mafia. that being said I don't think your necessarily scum but I need make sure your acting in the best interest of town

In the event that we lynch town or mafia, the cop should investigate the person he feels that knowing that person's alignment will benefit town most as a whole. [/QUOTE]
This is correct.
[/QUOTE] If we lynch a townie, he might think I am scum manipulating everyone and thus investigate me. Which is fine, but not optimal . [/QUOTE]
Well... as above I think the cop will decide whats optimal LOL whether its you me or seikend.
[/QUOTE]I just really want someone to flip scum to I can re-read them goddamit :mad [/QUOTE]
I don't want to sound like a broken record but I would say if you can't make a read in the day or two you should lynch X1[/QUOTE]

So yeah you're being redundant. Cop should investigate the people I mentioned, but if he doesn't trust me enough and investigates me I am cool with that.

I probably will end up going back to X1. I want to gather other information first, though. We got time (this is why I wanted to have them both claim early so I had time to think about things).

you being a town isn't proven. I don't think your scum but I need to make sure your acting in teh best interest of town.

This is correct.

Well... as above I think the cop will decide whats optimal LOL whether its you me or seikend.

I don't want to sound like a broken record but I would say if you can't make a read in the day or two you should lynch X1

^the above was me fixing my post.

I just get this uneasy feeling about why you aren't willing to lynch X1? that being said I will wait until tomorrow to hear your next scumpick

Unvote: X1-12

this unvote is temporary. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt Kuz but I don't know how long for.

Since your the more experienced player I'll leave it to your judgement and drop the matter entirely for now, on the condition that you will put your vote back on X1 if you cannot find a read within the next few days

Him currently being my top scumpick, its probable. No guarantees.

I will certainly try to make my mind up ASAP since the deadline is in 5 days.

in that case since the dead line is in 5 days I ask you vote for X1 by then unless circumstances drastically change.

Ran I see you in the thread. Mind telling us your thoughts?

I wonder why Ran and Gova didn't post despite being in the thread.......

could you guys give us your thoughts of what happened today?

soren likes soren being proactive

Kuz please post any current reasons for suspicions behind JTB Fynal Seikend no matter how small they are i want to hear your thoughts. You are potentially drawing X1s lynch to the last day because of this so i would like to know your current scumspicions

we can't spend days trying to find a lynch when we only have 5. Ran is right.

Pressure a few, then lynch X1

Apologies for leaving thread, I hadn't viewed anything else on SWF today and I had to leave 10 minutes before I actually did to pick up a friend for a sports meet. I found out from an MRI today that I have a significant back problem, I'll be dedicating tomorrow to physio and stuff, so V/LA for tomorrow.

I lost a significant post before kuz asked for the claim addressing some of kuz's points due to SWF hating me, but I'll summarise them.

kuz was right about some stuff, I overinterpreted a lot of his attack as meta and didn't understand the difference between scumhunting and standard debating, so I'll take back my first and second paragraphs at least. I did want to point out that X1 vs kuz was possibly TvT. X1 did have a couple tanks contradictions, which kuz jumped on and attacked with his wraiths. X1's defence to the contradictions were, of course, more tanks and a couple goliaths contradictions, since you can't really logic your way out of a contradiction without more factories dedicated to goliaths more contradictions.

Neither is particularly scummy.

My previous scumpicks, Seikend (possibly Soren) were weakened, Seikend because in re-reading he really hasn't shown scumminess, just a bit of indecisiveness (which changed recently). I play rather conservatively as well. I think Soren is most likely town, his incessant attacks have basically cleared his name for me, though it is interesting he only appeared when there is a definite target to attack.

@ Soren, what is your opinion on Seikend? Do you have any other outstanding town/scum picks?

Will UTB be replaced?

AA I need to see proof that both you , and seikend are protown. Seikend will be under my suspicions until he can prove himself clean.

these are just SOME of my posts.

 

[Blacknight99923]

I apologize for not posting the past few days. When the X1-Kuz exchange started, I felt overwhelmed by the content and had no idea how to jump in correctly, so I started lurking for the time being. I'll be re-reading and posting at some point today.

I also noticed this......
Fence sitter.....

 

[th3kuzinator]

Seik is scummy-ish. I'll deal with him tomorrow.

JTB or X1 toDay IMO

Will post more when I get a computer.

 

[Blacknight99923]

Kuz if we lynch X1 who do you think scum will kill?

 

[JTB]

Soren, how does the answer of that question benefit town in any way?

 

[Fynal]

JTB, my 1695 please.

 

[JTB]

I'll get to it when I'm on a computer, I'm just answering things I can respond to with a short post because my phone is garbage

 

[Blacknight99923]

To be honest JTB if you want to show us your town you should stop dodging our requests by asking me questions, to which I've responded to everytime.

I understand your on a phone so take as long as you need.

JTB, my 1695 please.

I'll get to it when I'm on a computer, I'm just answering things I can respond to with a short post because my phone is garbage

Please stop trying to ask me questions to dodge yours. I have answered every question requested of me.

If someone else would like to know the answer to your question I will respond.

 

[Fynal]

the above post confuses me...

did you link the wrong posts or something? not getting it

 

[Blacknight99923]

the above post confuses me...

did you link the wrong posts or something? not getting it

I was posting my request that he gives answers,
your request that he gives answers.

If your asking if I will answer the most recent question he gave me I will if you want me to.

 

[th3kuzinator]

@JTB: Soren is town. All I have to say to you really (need to get back to hw ive been putting off). Would you be adverse to claiming toDay?

Also @ Soren: I like your new aggressive attitude but you are hounding JTB on almost anything he says at this point. You are assuming he's scum and taking everything he says and viewing it from a scum filter. I am not saying JTB is not scum, just try to take everything with a grain of salt. I know you're a noovie and thus don't always know what to look for, but its something to keep in mind.

 

[JTB]

Claiming would be a bad idea. If by chance X1 and AA do flip VT, scum has already narrowed down the potential PR pool and I don't wish to make it easier for them.

I'm working on my post now that I'm on a computer.

 

[Fynal]

Claiming would be a bad idea. If by chance X1 and AA do flip VT, scum has already narrowed down the potential PR pool and I don't wish to make it easier for them.

I'm working on my post now that I'm on a computer.

...kuz what do you make of this?

 

[th3kuzinator]

@AA: New scumpicks and general musings now that you realize you overhighlighted my case. Is Seikend still scum?

Still want this answered. AA is on V/LA today but just requoting it so he answers it when he gets back.

And this @Tery

And how do you feel about JTB?

 

[ranmaru]

Kuz if we lynch X1 who do you think scum will kill?

Generally we shouldn't ask this question. We don't want to give scum ideas, and we don't really know what scum will think so we may get the wrong answer. So it can go either way. So let's just focus on scum hunting, and people's actions from within thread.

Kuzi / X1 help me out with this.

 

[th3kuzinator]

@Ranmaru: Its WIFOM but he probably didn't know it was such so its nothing to get worried about, really.

@Soren wrt that post: Talking about things like that actually hurt town in the long run. No need to discuss it.

@Fynal: no me gusta. Also, are you town (serious question)?

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Ugh. This is ridiculous, trying to play catchup at two different parts of this thread. I should've thought twice before replacing into this game, hm.

@Tery: What vibe does this post give you?

I'm not willing to believe this. Honestly, a true town would've been able to just say "Town Vanilla" right off the bat, and I don't see any reason not to say that, if they directly have the Town Vanilla PM.

@kuz: If I survive toDay I will be replacing out

Don't burden another player with this overwhelming catchup game...

Part of me wants to vote X1-12 because of the previous slip and condolence (dunno if that's the right word) for another player. Part of me wants to vote JTB for the stuff going on the last page that I really shouldn't have to repost *cough* parrot *cough*.

 

[JTB]

...kuz what do you make of this?

Fynal, why don't you give us your opinion of my post instead of asking someone else?

 

[th3kuzinator]

@Tery: So you think that X1 saying "VT" instead of town vanilla is a slip?

 

[Terywj [태리]]

@Tery: So you think that X1 saying "VT" instead of town vanilla is a slip?

For someone like X1-12, yes.

 

[th3kuzinator]

I don't know how I feel about that. Actually I do, but I don't want to spoil the surprise.

@JTB: So the reason you don't want to claim is because you don't want to limit the pool down for scum to hit PRs?

 

[JTB]

You haven't been so hellbent on trying to prove anyone's scum until now, when

A .I've posted that you haven't been scum hunting

B .you have 3 votes on you.

C. I only see you making any arguments about me being scum, I am also currently the most vocal at you being scum. It is logical for the person who is accused to then counter accuse so as to shed doubt on the accuser's (in this case my) arguments.

D. You also feel the need to label me as scum before you've Linked posts that your innocent.

Do these posts not exist and therefore you physically can't link them? So you feel your only option for survival is to then place blame on me?

A. I was scumhunting before you called me out on it and I've said it over and over.

B. Okay

C. You are the most vocal because you are the only person around, come on. And it's not as I've never thought you were scum until now.

D. Asking me to link posts that prove I'm scumhunting? I'm not here for self-perseverance, go through my posts and ask yourself if I haven't been doing any scumhunting.

And lol at your last statement.

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12536845&postcount=977
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12560295&postcount=1011

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12595851&postcount=1244

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12607627&postcount=1387


I have never drifted from X1 being scum. 2 of these posts were before I was able to become active.

What does this have to do with me saying that you and X1 are scum? I've already asked that, but you didn't give me an answer related to it.

from what i'v gathered, JTB claims he:
-was sure kuz was town, but was suspicious of very-townie people from meta, so wanted a solid-er read on him
-didn't buy into X1's case on kuz, but was willing to go with it to wagon kuz for being too townie
-decided it'd be best not to go against kuz once kuz retaliated against X1, and so went against X1 instead
please correct me if any of the above is wrong.

JTB, why did you choose to agree with an accusation you thought was crap against a town read of yours...
...instead of questioning the accuser?

was one instance of meta, in which a different person in a similar situation was scum, really enough?

or am i misunderstanding this, and you found X1's overall case bad, but his initial post solid?

You are misunderstanding my intent. I had a town read on Kuz, but his change of heart on Ran was scummy to me. I wanted on the wagon so that he would go into more detail about it.

To be honest JTB if you want to show us your town you should stop dodging our requests by asking me questions, to which I've responded to everytime.

I understand your on a phone so take as long as you need.

I hadn't been dodging your questions at all, you just want me to shove everything in your face instead of you looking.

I also noticed this......
Fence sitter.....

This would be true if I didn't vote X1.

But I did!

Please stop trying to ask me questions to dodge yours. I have answered every question requested of me.

If someone else would like to know the answer to your question I will respond.

And this proves that you are already set on me being scum instead of looking at everything neutrally. So what happens once I flip town and you have nothing at all?

@kuz, I'm adverse to claiming because it will hurt town more than help, why don't you like that?

 

[Terywj [태리]]

It's just a slip. Unsure if this influences as Mafia X1-12 or Town X1-12. I really should learn how to read faster, but I'm having difficulties. Gah. This blows.