Newbie Mafia 12 FMP Fumoffu!: Game over!

[X1-12]

I never said anything about scumpicks. I was talking about Re-evaluating reads, but it seems you didn't read that part.

But I can understand that one needs a scumread before making scumpicks though. And what you say is right.

Do you think Aussie was scum caught in a lie, or just horrible newb mistake?

So basically in post #872 you quoted AA asking about scumpicks + scumreads, you answer the post by saying "depends", yet you now say you never said anything about scumpicks? So you just decided to answer his question by not responding to what he said at all, and instead just trying to give him some random general advice, DESPITE being called out several times for trying to look like you are giving content by merely advice dogging.

Unvote
Vote: Ranmaru

 

[ranmaru]

Look at that post. Do you see the word SCUMPICKS?

So what? I'm the SE. I'm not trying to look like I'm ADVICE DOGGING. I speak my thoughts. Plus I don't see how that is scummy.

Can you explain HOW and WHERE I was wrong in that post though?

 

[X1-12]

You quoted, and acknowledged the quote by answering the question within it. That quote was talking about scumpicks -> You were talking about scumpicks by responding to a question which asked about them.

You are advice dogging, whether you're trying to look like it or not, you are. You're trying to attempt to look like you are town and providing content by just giving advice.

@All:

Look at that post. Do you see the word SCUMPICKS?

So what? I'm the SE. I'm not trying to look like I'm ADVICE DOGGING. I speak my thoughts. Plus I don't see how that is scummy.

Can you explain HOW and WHERE I was wrong in that post though?

If we look at this quote, we see not only that Ranmaru is trying to refute the statement that he is advice dogging, that would be ok. But in the bolded section he also tries to defend the action itself. If he truely didn't advice dog, then why would he need to say that advice dogging isn't scummy? If a townie is attacked, they refute the statement and can disprove the attack/defend against it by posting their thought process for their actions. Ranmaru tries to go beyond this, not only does he say he didn't do it, but he's also saying that its not scummy, incase later he is proved that he did do it. If you disagree with this then other reasons to lynch Ranmaru include: Constant advice dogging. Attacking the ICs for the way they do their job when such posts will lead in no way to helping get a alignment read on the IC. Lack of actual content. Saying he is willing to lynch someone who is null to him when he has actual scumpicks etc etc.


I suggest we all switch to Ranmaru now.

 

[ranmaru]

I said that I'm not trying to look like it. Big deal.

I said I was an SE. Meaning I feel I should give THE ADVICE. Never said I wasn't.

 

[ranmaru]

Attacking the IC's? How is that scummy?

Let's not forget an IC was also on the lynch line himself.

I'm still for lynching JTB. Especially since he only came to defend himself against me.

 

[ranmaru]

Btw: I never said I didn't give advice. Giving advice isn't scummy.

 

[Seikend]

Reread.

I'd much rather a Ran wagon over Swords currently.

Minor suspicions of AA and JTB.

Mostly fine with everyone else.

 

[th3kuzinator]

Swords is so scummy, I honestly can't see why he isn't going first.

Lynch swords, save Ran for later.

 

[Gova]

Btw: I never said I didn't give advice. Giving advice isn't scummy.

Giving advice isn't scummy, but when all you do is just that, it becomes scummy. You haven't been scum hunting at all, you just look like you're contributing because all you do is post "advice".

 

[th3kuzinator]

Though I must admit Ranmaru is annoying me this game much more than usual.

 

[Seikend]

Swords is so scummy, I honestly can't see why he isn't going first.

Lynch swords, save Ran for later.

I agree that so far his play has been really anti-town, but I think it's possible that he deliberately played that way to make a relaxed, unpressured game for newbies, at least to start with. I don't strongly believe it's true, but it's a possibility I'm considering.

I remember you mentioning a newbie game he was in before that he played differently though. I'll read that at some point and get back to you.

 

[th3kuzinator]

I agree that so far his play has been really anti-town, but I think it's possible that he deliberately played that way to make a relaxed, unpressured game for newbies, at least to start with. I don't strongly believe it's true, but it's a possibility I'm considering.

I remember you mentioning a newbie game he was in before that he played differently though. I'll read that at some point and get back to you.

Thats exactly what I was going to comment on.

Seriously, read the first 3 pages of newbie 9. X1 modded the game so he may remember. Looks nothing like this swords.

 

[ranmaru]

Giving advice isn't scummy, but when all you do is just that, it becomes scummy. You haven't been scum hunting at all, you just look like you're contributing because all you do is post "advice".

Hmmm. I have scumhunted. It's pretty hard to scumhunt when mostly Aussie and Kuz are posting in the thread. But you saying "At all" is a lie. I just have alot of nulls, because of the newbieness.

Fynal, Soup, Jtb, TBS. All those guys need to post. I myself have been a bit inactive, but I'm here. I'm sticking my neck out.

I'm willing to be a Matyr though, to show that I'm being genuine. (For the newbies, not you guys lol)

 

[th3kuzinator]

Btw: I never said I didn't give advice. Giving advice isn't scummy.

Yeah but giving advice in place of actually content is scummy, which is what you have been doing. Attacking ICs isn't inherently scummy, attacking them for not ICing up to your standards and using that as an avenue of contribution is scummy, which is what you've been doing.

Not to mention the majority of your advice has been dead wrong and we've all asked you to stop.

"But I'm town Ran and thus am Aggro to everyone and everything"

 

[ranmaru]

Hey that's not what I say at all ;-; And what's wrong with Aggro?

No, not at all. That isn't scummy. I have scumhunted, nothing wrong with advice along with it. I have the right to speak, and I WILL USE IT. No matter the consequences.

Which advice was wrong ;-; (I will admit to my faults though)

 

[th3kuzinator]

If by scumhunting you mean you don't have any scum reads but are just okay with some people getting lynched then yeah, I'll give you that.

X1 already pointed out what was wrong with your advice as soon as you said it.

 

[ranmaru]

I'd like to hear your thoughts on them, actually. That could help me see how I did it wrong.

 

[Gova]

You're just going to have to deal with it. There's no point in explaining why the "advice" you give is wrong.

Ran, who do you think is scum and why?

 

[th3kuzinator]

Can we seriously not lynch Ran yet.

Lynch Sword. Seriously.

 

[ranmaru]

Why not?

Still on Fynal. I still don't believe him. He said he didn't know what L-1 was, but knew that someone would have to claim. That's the strongest read I have, actually.

Mostly everyone else isn't posting much at all. Meaning Soup, JTB (I saw him in here too), Fynal, TBS; UTD, but he needs to catch up. Saw him post recently in other threads though.

 

[Seikend]

'kay, read some of it.

He seemed to be fairly inactive in Newbie 9, yet was really actively scumhunting. Like there's very little introduction, pleasantries etc., straight to asking questions and pressuring. I can see what you mean Kuz.


I agree with your case on him fluffing and not scumhunting, but disagree with the section on his stances.


Looked at alone the large number of null stances looks really bad. But when you consider his play so far today, it makes sense. Considering he hasn't pushed any cases at all toDay, his nulls are at least consistent with his play. Any hard stances would have looked a lot worse imo.



Also still salty about being called town just for honesty.

Unvote
Vote: Sworddancer

 

[JTB]

On my phone right now, but fynal and myself have definitely been active

 

[Gova]

Did you just hammer Swords? I thought Kuz said he was at L-1. >.>

 

[Gova]

@MOD, requesting prod on Soupamario, and status of the replacements.

 

[th3kuzinator]

Swords is not hammered, he's at L-1. JTB unvoted to vote Ranmaru.

Just letting errone know, 2.5 days left until deadline

 

[th3kuzinator]

IDK about X1, but I am okay with the Day ending.

 

[ranmaru]

Rather have as much time close to deadline. More discussion, the better.

 

[Gova]

I'd be okay with the day ending if Gatlin and Soren actually get replaced before Night so the replacements have time to read.

Also, Ran, you should be using the time we have left to find some scum picks.

 

[X1-12]

We need to seriously go to Ranmaru.

@Kuz: Ran is obviously has the stronger role in the scumteam, look at how Swords called Ran null-leaning town, yet Ran called swords scummyish. Ran is more OK with Swords dying than vica versa. That can't be due to skill level so Ran must have a stronger scum role than him. I will also pressure Sword's slot massively toMorrow, lets go Ran toDay

We need Replacements in before the Night starts ideally. If the mods fail to do that I'ma proper Rage. Gatlin requested replacement like 2 days into D1

Ran's scumminess, in three easy points ..and some subpoints ...and subsubpoints

1.) Does not give content. Instead fakes content in the following ways
1.a) Attacking the ICs for the way they teach, not in any way indicative of alignment
1.b) Advice dogging - Giving advice in place of content
1.b(i) Tries to justify his Advice dogging by saying he is an SE, this is wrong because firstly his role does not require him to give advice, and secondly, as gova already pointed out, its a very common way for scum to appear town, especially in newbie games.
1.b(ii) Tries to justify his advice dogging by saying that there's nothing wrong with giving advice, despite the fact that it had been made explicitly clear that the only issue was that he'd been doing it in place of giving content
1.c) States that in this game its hard to scumhunt (No-one else is having this issue)
2.) Ranmaru stated he was OK with lynching someone who he had a null read on, despite having other scumreads.
3.) States in #884 that he wasn't trying to look like he was advice dogging. Why do townies care what they look like?


@ALL: We have little time left. The only two realistic lynch candidates for toDay are Ranmaru and Swords. I strongly suggest you state now which you would rather lynch, and why. Quoting/referencing from the cases of me/kuz as necessary. Make SURE you DONT HAMMER yet, however if you believe Ran should be lynched and he is not L-1, then feel free to place your vote

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Alright, i've been busy with bingo mafia lately, but i'm gonna use some of my time to re-cap, or to summarize my opnions on

everything so far.

starting off with Swords replacement.

starts off well i suppose, you gotta do your school-work over mafi-

X1 is looking town...ish. His posts are nice but he seems a bit removed from the

conversation. but keep your eye out on him, because scum X1 is a dangerous thing.

FMPOV X1 is probably one of the most town here, i haven't seen X1 be removed from the conversation at all, in fact, it was

you who was removed from the conversation, X1 strayed off the path of spoon-feeding newbies and actually played the game; he

did give some info during the beginning, but nothing like dogging.

granted i have never played a scumX1 (or i am right now in another game) but noted to keep an eye on him.

Ran is null-town (yes, I'm changing it). I agree that the namedrop was rather suspicious. A couple of useless posts

but tbh I kinda get the feeling that that's just Ran. I do think he's legit trying, just going about it in all the wrong

ways.

Agree to disagree? Ran has used the SE card far too much, and even when people slap him on the hand he just goes "but i'm

just trying to help the noobs!" that's nice and all ran, but lead in X1's trail and try to get scumhunting.

I think Ran is using the SE card in all the wrong reasons, if you see someone really struggling,having a hard time finding

scum-reads, don't understand a term,or whatnot, then you should step in, you don't have to constantly monitor the noobs, you

should play for your wincon too.

i'm saying i agree to disagree but this is such a touchy subject, what is more scummy, not helping anyone at all, or helping

too much?

null-town from me too though.

I'm suspicious of Gova. Upon further inspection, I find that a lot his posts are empty. Plus, I think he's taking a

fairly easy position with pressure on JTB. I'm mean yes i agree that JTB's "advice dogging" is suspicious, but Gova has not

called anyone out on anything else, besides maybe Ran who he thought to be have a connection with JTB. Also, calling someone

out on advice dogging is a fairly easy thing to do. Not total scum, but should be looked into.

Not sure where you are getting that 'empty' feeling from Gova's post, He is just playing the game, and i have seen him try

to ask questions or give people questions to answer, all trying to benefit understanding for town.

i think if my memory recalls correctly, he has alot of stances, just nothing hard-core.

i do not like the fact you emphasize Advice Dogging twice, you stated that you understand why Ranmaru was dogging, but Gova

dogging makes it wrong?

i sure love bias.

OUt of all inactives, I get the feeling that TBS is the most likely to actually be coasting. since he is posting but

rather infrequently. Overal, he hasn't provided much. Would be okay with seeing him going toDay, if not to jsut get rid of

an inactive.

Alot of people have been coasting, me, fynal, aa, etc. this is almost the same argument with Ran and Gova, why are you being

so biased towards one person, but so hostile to another?

i agree with TBS not providing much, but don't put that as a scumtell, it depends what is inside the post, not just

consistentcy.

concerning TBS, i personally might go look at what he has posted and deduct what his alignment is, but not right now, he

isn't the priority toDay.

JTB is looking townish to me. I think AA layed out the best case as to why. with the exception of his earlier advice

dogging. I think most of the cases agaisnt him are weakish.

you sure love the ish.

weakish
townish
scummish
stupidish

have a firm read, don't be so flip-flop, you almost want to sound stupid.

i dunno, maybe i'm being bias

Fynal could be def scum. I like his early play, and I think his case on me is legit, but there are some other things

about him that I don't like. I don't like how he put JTB at L_1 while realizing the implications that might come from it. I

also don't like how he played the noob card a lot after he was called out on this. Would also be okay with him going

toDay.

oh man, you just don't stop do you?

1) Fynal is a noob, playing the noob card is not playing the noob card, trying to have a scum-read on a noob for having a

noob card is a reach, and a terrible one, i did not like the Fact fynal stated he went L-1 for pressure, but i believe it

was an honest mistake; contradicting my last statement upon fynal but i have looked at it and others.

2) Bias, AA, TBS, Soren, etc. etc. they have all played this golden card and yet, you're not on them for it.

Seik I'm going null-town on as of now. He has been wagon hopping A LOT, for weak reasoning. I appreciate his brutal

honesty, and as much as I know he's going to hate me judging his play off of this, I really do believe that him not knowing

what to do is a noobie town tell.

oh gawd you're just painting a picture for me.

Gatlin/Soren are simply inactive and cannot be judged at this point.

i suppose i can let that fly, still don't like how you...you get the freaking point.

Soupa is looking town.

thanks bro, means alot. <3

AA I'm null on. Earlier X1 said that he thought AA was being too agreeable, I haven't looked into this myself but I

def endorse others looking into this, because i feel that it's a pretty legit noobie scum tell.

this is the same **** that makes me think you are scum, you're like freaking goldilox, "this person is too helpful, this

person is too inactive/un-helpful, THIS PERSON IS JUST RIGHTT."

So yeah, that's it. Sorry if I offended anyone by delibertly down playing for the newbies. But yeah, can't fix that

now i guess.

Oh, i see, you were just acting stupid to see if noobs would catch up on it? what a brilliant plan, you do realize that this

also goes for noobscum, and how easy it would for them to point fingers on you?

noted, i don't think anyone has done this besides Gova and Kuz, if i re-call.

I don't feel like summarizing all of this because it basically summarizes itself, i said what i thought, and i said how i

felt about this little post here, and that's it, for this post at least.

I looked further and noticed Kuz stating not to hammer, so i'm not voting Swords.

but, swords getting the lynch really opens doors to possible scum and or town, so, to me, swords is the best lynch, next to ran of course.

AND YES KUZ I KNOW YOU POSTED AN ISO TOO I SAW IT AND IT WAS WONDERFUL BUT I HAVE MY OWN WORD THOUGH SO DEAL WITH IT.

jk bro <3


more stuff soon, just felt this was most important.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

sorry about the weird spacing format, typed it on notepad and it spaced it for some dumb reason.

 

[th3kuzinator]

@X1: Agree to disagree. Not nearly as concerned about Ran as about Swords and I want him dead toDay. Don't particularly like how you are trying to convince me to go Ran with the argument Ran probably has a better scum PR. I am more comfortable with scumSword than scumRan though I think both are plausible.

@Soup: OKAY THERE BROSKI. As long as I twisted your arm convinced you to join the right wagon, I'm satisfied.

 

[X1-12]

I was just using any means necessary to get you on my wagon. lol

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

to hammer, or not to hammer, that is the question.

waiting approval kuz/X1.

 

[th3kuzinator]

I'm okay whenever.

@Ranmaru: We're not waiting for more discussion and we are ending the Day now. Stop trying to impose what you want on the rest of town.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

so i get to be the hero this time?! :D

 

[th3kuzinator]

IDK, let me see what Ranmaru has to say b4 u hammah.

 

[X1-12]

Would much rather get these people replaced so we can impose on them the importance of catching up overNight than waiting till D2 and have them not knowing whats going on

 

[th3kuzinator]

Sure, whatever.

Adumb's activity is low due to sickness and J has some sort of theatrical thing going. We might be waiting for awhile.

 

[JTB]

Soupamario, you better not ****ing hammer, it has already been decided by the gods of old that I get to be the hero this time.