Newbie Mafia 12 FMP Fumoffu!: Game over!

[Gova]

And from 30 seconds of scanning you would see that he still came to the conclusion that like everyone is null, and just says that everyone should be looked into. Doesn't really say "scum hunting" to me. If you think those things should be followed up on, do you plan to take the initiative and follow up on those things?

 

[asianaussie]

I didn't said he was scumhunting, merely that he set up scumhunting discussion as his last hurrah. I don't know if that's what you were referring to, but if it wasn't, you need to read more carefully.

Actually, I may just follow up on some of what he said, if it hasn't been done already.

 

[Gova]

Setting up "scum hunting" != actual "scum hunting". Just because that was his last post before replacing out doesn't give him an excuse to not do it if he's town.

 

[th3kuzinator]

@Gova: before I answer that, what's you current on him?

 

[Gova]

No idea. That's why I'm asking. If it makes sense I'd be willing to agree but also because X1 has a scum read on him, or thinks he's scummy. Kinda want to hear the difference in opinions behind that.

 

[th3kuzinator]

quote from forever ago

@X1: I am taking the quote I asked you to analyze as a town tell. I remember during my nub-scum days I would never go out of my way to draw suspicion on the good/aggressive players because I did not want their attention to turn on me. TBS acts in a way that shows he is constantly worried about being backstabbed by the players who lead town and he would not need to be conscious of this if he was scum. If anything, this type of noobscum coaxing has been done by AA all game. I don't understand why you dropped his push in the slightest.

 

[Gova]

@Kuz, is the above why you find him to be town?

 

[th3kuzinator]

Hence me taking it as a town tell.

 

[Gova]

@Kuz, I was just making sure because you addressed it to X1 instead of me. I guess he asked you the same thing lol.

Actually, I may just follow up on some of what he said, if it hasn't been done already.

No, you should do this. No "mays".

 

[th3kuzinator]

No, you should do this. No "mays".

What? Explain.

 

[Gova]

I want to see if he'll actually commit to something. He said that Swords posted some stuff that should be looked into. Since Swords replaced out and can't do it, I want to see if AA will.

 

[th3kuzinator]

@Gova, what's your read on Sword?

 

[Gova]

Still scum.

 

[th3kuzinator]

Then why do you want AA to follow up on Sword's stances, since you must already know that everything he posts should be taken with a grain of salt due to him still being scum?

 

[Gova]

I don't see a downside in making someone obligated to scum hunt. Also, on like page 9 you said Seikend was town but last page you have him as null. What changed that?

 

[asianaussie]

Righto. This action doesn't matter since you'll regard it as an obligatory attempt to prove I'm not scum, but read it anyway.

And kuz has the same opinion as I do lol

On the three things I posted previously:

Gova has, in this game, done some scumhunting by pressing questions, clarified/given advice and done a whole lot of bickering regarding me and some apparent contradiction that only exists if you want to use some very indistinct definitions for some words I used. Intent to hunt scum exists, especially recently, but that was only because he thought he had a solid read on me. Still not full town for me, though he did stop pressing after I pointed out the inconsistency in definitions. He didn't even vote me and I don't remember seeing a FoS from him, though I may have overlooked it. Probably town, just town who doesn't commit until he sees a direct path of attack and has followed that path to its end.

Fynal...he has played the newbie card on one major occasion, which isn't enough to make me think he's abusing it (although he did instantly use it right after to try and distract people...). I had the same misconception as he did, actually. To be fair, his questions have been legitimate, and he has scumhunted a fair bit. Though some of his behaviour is a little off, I believe he is town.

I don't think I've been agreeable at all. The first major discussion I participated in was the one Gova mentioned, where I disagreed with the premise and conclusion. Past that I feel all I've done is post my opinions, supporting whoever has the same read as me (and using what they say to support my own opinion).

@ Gova, Do you want to look into Fynal for me? I don't recall you doing much independant analysis on people other than me, even when directly prompted.

 

[Gova]

I still think Fynal is town though because of X1's analysis post. I asked Swords to show where he played the noob card because I don't recall seeing it, and I want to see how he used it.

 

[Gova]

For scumminess...if anyone, Ran or maybe, maybe Gova.

I want Ran or Soren lynched, the former for pseudo-scumminess and the latter for inactivity and me having a gut suspicion...Seik is also a bit suspicious, but I can't pin down why...Gova, maybe, but I don't have any case aside from him continuing to press me even after he apparently understood my clarification of the misunderstanding...

How did you go from this...

Gova has, in this game, done some scumhunting by pressing questions, clarified/given advice and done a whole lot of bickering regarding me and some apparent contradiction that only exists if you want to use some very indistinct definitions for some words I used. Intent to hunt scum exists, especially recently, but that was only because he thought he had a solid read on me. Still not full town for me, though he did stop pressing after I pointed out the inconsistency in definitions. He didn't even vote me and I don't remember seeing a FoS from him, though I may have overlooked it. Probably town, just town who doesn't commit until he sees a direct path of attack and has followed that path to its end.

...to this so quickly?

 

[asianaussie]

He said that he believed pressuring involved putting people close to being lynched, and after that asked a newbie question about whether lynchings occurred early in the day or not.

Regarding your stance on me, why did you stop addressing my points after I pointed out why the purported 'contradiction' falls through? Seikend did the same. You did not accept or reject them, am I to take it that you're simply ignoring me? I have explained every contradiction, and will do so again.

#246: The other point concerns how early a stage of the game we are in. If you are both going off Blacknight99923's post, a markedly random one, I'm honestly unsure as to how valid any reasoning from such a post is. While his credentials make me consider the possibility of that post having a directed purpose (Researcher status, his avatar), I honestly can't make a real decision at the moment.

You've presented a legitimate case for Fynal not being scum

Addressed by Seikend. I did not agree with X1 because his analysis was based on a single response, and to Soren's random post at that. I did not say his analysis was invalid or indefensible, merely that I didn't agree with it.

#706: No, I did not have a scumread on Fynal, I had no scumreads at all, and all I said was that if anyone would be scum it would be Fynal or Gatlin, neither of whom I actually had a read on.

No contradictions. I mentioned Gatlin and Fynal because X1 prompted a discussion on the top scumpick. There was almost no evidence at that point and I thought nothing of most players.

#706: I disagreed with X1 pinning Fynal as town off something as open-ended as his analysis of Soren's post, but I had no issue with the analysis itself

I don't see how this is wrong. An analogy: X1 built a really poor house because he chose a swamp to build it on, but the way he laid the bricks and the quality of the bricks was fine.

 

[asianaussie]

I already said I had no real reads on you past the repeated pressing of 'contradictions'. I honestly don't have any other real scum reads, and you just happen to be one of the ones I found a reason to be suspicious of, even if the majority of your behaviour is town-ish. Swords, Ran, TBS and JTB at least cannot imo be pinned as scum without going out on a limb.

 

[Gova]

"I don't have a scum read on Fynal."
"If anyone would be scum it would be Fynal..."

Maybe I don't understand what a contradiction is but that really looks like one to me.

 

[UTDZac]

Zac, have you received your PM yet? And who are you replacing in for?

Super inactivity in this game by both players and mods

No.

I don't know.

Agreed.

 

[asianaussie]

@ Gova, Include the damned context. X1 had asked for a scumpick, I poked at Gatlin, not Fynal. My reasoning for mentioning Fynal is in #246, shown almost immediately after to be WIFOM anyway. It was for the sake of discussion at that incredibly early point in the game.

Internet is buzzing in and out, brb.

 

[Gova]

But that was in context... It's in the same sentence in that quote in your post...

Why would you call a player you had no read on scum anyways? I discount "for the sake of discussion" because I honestly don't beleive that. You could have just asked questions to get a read on a player.

 

[asianaussie]

Context includes the whole sentence and what I'm responding to, that's why I included the post numbers.

I called it because X1 asked for scumpicks (which I had none of) in his first analysis of Fynal. Was I not supposed to contribute if I had no scumpicks? I believe Gatlin did respond.

 

[X1-12]

X1: "Hey, AsianAussie, what fruit do you have?"
AA: "I've two oranges and a banana!"
->X1 looks over to inspect the banana
X1: "There's no banana here!"
AA: "What did you want me to say? That I had no fruit at all?"

 

[X1-12]

@AA: Do you read every post made in the game?

 

[asianaussie]

Yes, I do. Do you?

I also find the comparison between a meaningless question such as that (are we going to be getting the fruits to discuss exactly which one among them should be eaten?) and asking for top scumpicks early in a mafia game rather poor, since the point of mafia is to elicit some sort of discussion, while (I'd hope) we all know fruit can't talk.

 

[X1-12]

Only Pineapples speak: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBSflK1FTSY

I'm pretty sure I read every post in this game, I might skim a couple but I do partial re-reads all the time so it doesn't matter.

>I ask you scumpicks
>You have no scumpicks
>You lie and say you do have scumpicks.

>You claim to read every post in this game
>In post #210 I explicitly state that townies should not lie
>You lied about scumpicks earlier

 

[asianaussie]

Tell me, do I need to have a scum read before I have a scum pick if all I want is a response from someone?

 

[X1-12]

If you don't have a scumread, its not a scumpick. Its just some bull**** you made up on the spot

If you want a response, you ask questions, probe people. Not lie and say they're your scumpick when they're not


So are you saying you saw the thing saying you shouldn't lie but directly went against it because you knew better? Or what? Explain please.

 

[ranmaru]

Tell me, do I need to have a scum read before I have a scum pick if all I want is a response from someone?

Eh, depends. Town can re-evaluate reads. They have to because they might be wrong at first.

If you made a mistake, it'll do you much better if you come out and claim you messed up, instead of lying about it. Town has nothing to hide.

Scum have to fake reads, so this is why you should try to be as honest as possible. (Town shouldn't ever lie)

@Kuz: Why did you feel like changing from me to Swords?

 

[asianaussie]

Excuse me? You're making it sound as if I purposely attempted to lie for the sole purpose of sticking it to you.

Me saying that Gatlin was my scumpick, or my pick as scum, was justified to as much of a degree as I could manage with the meagre posting record at that point (which turned out to be most of my reasoning anyway):

I'm going to say that Gatlin is scum. His post was short and almost obligatory. While it was a response to a legitimate question, choosing that post and not engaging the the (at that time) current discussion suggests an unwillingness to type more than he had to, minimising whatever chances one could read scum from his diction, etc. It also caused the post to go under the radar. His low post count suggests that other activity was not the reason for his brief response. Certainly, no further discussion has come concerning him at the moment.

Gatlin admitted it was a fair point and explained it.

Fynal was a scumpick to a lesser degree because of some WIFOM I still didn't understand at that point.

While it's true that what he says masks intent and move town towards their goal, scum could just as easily do so in order to lower suspicion on them. In this particular instance, assuming that Fynal is scum, what he said has convinced you otherwise. I've seen instances of Fynal posting very intelligently outside of these forums, so it is quite possible he is one of these 'reasonably smart scum' he alludes to.

I read him as town now. All of the above is conjecture-ish, bull**** for lack of a better word, but there was no real evidence at that time. I wanted to prompt some discussion. It was not worthy of what I consider an actual read, and I therefore said repeatedly I had no solid scumreads, even though I did justify my picks.

Where is the lie?

 

[X1-12]

Ranmaru stop giving advice or I will get you lynched toDay rather than toMorrow. For a start what you are saying is wrong. You do need a scumread to have a scumpick, otherwise its just not a scumpick, just you randomly picking a player. If all you want is a response from someone then you can ask a question. You could theoretically falsify and make up a scumpick to pressure someone, but considering I specifically stated you should not lie, I see no reason why anyone would do such a thing.

AA your lie is saying Gatlin was your scumpick when he was not.

 

[asianaussie]

Do you mean that in the sense where I voted for Gatlin, or is there a post you can quote for me?

 

[X1-12]

First one clearly is you stating you had no scumpicks. Second one is earlier and is you clearly stating that Fynal/Gatlin are your scumpicks

I called it because X1 asked for scumpicks (which I had none of) in his first analysis of Fynal. Was I not supposed to contribute if I had no scumpicks? I believe Gatlin did respond.

That said, Fynal or Gatlin are my picks as scum. You've presented a legitimate case for Fynal not being scum, so I'm going to say that Gatlin is scum. His post was short and almost obligatory. While it was a response to a legitimate question, choosing that post and not engaging the the (at that time) current discussion suggests an unwillingness to type more than he had to, minimising whatever chances one could read scum from his diction, etc. It also caused the post to go under the radar. His low post count suggests that other activity was not the reason for his brief response. Certainly, no further discussion has come concerning him at the moment.

Vote: Gatlin

 

[asianaussie]

That's a fair enough call to make. Early on I was under the assumption scumpicks were simply people you thought could be scum, distinct from scumreads. I seem to have used the terms carelessly.

Make of it what you will, that's my honest misunderstanding.

 

[ranmaru]

Ranmaru stop giving advice or I will get you lynched toDay rather than toMorrow. For a start what you are saying is wrong. You do need a scumread to have a scumpick, otherwise its just not a scumpick, just you randomly picking a player. If all you want is a response from someone then you can ask a question. You could theoretically falsify and make up a scumpick to pressure someone, but considering I specifically stated you should not lie, I see no reason why anyone would do such a thing.

AA your lie is saying Gatlin was your scumpick when he was not.

I never said anything about scumpicks. I was talking about Re-evaluating reads, but it seems you didn't read that part.

But I can understand that one needs a scumread before making scumpicks though. And what you say is right.

Do you think Aussie was scum caught in a lie, or just horrible newb mistake?

 

[X1-12]

kooozai help me out here with this #877 jank I'm hmmmmming massively.

 

[ranmaru]

You know, I think his read on Gatlin is doodoo.

I remember as newbscum, I was for the inactives/weaker players since I was afraid of taking on more than I can chew (Like from Vandie or Metakirby)

@X1: Why did Aussie claim that now? Is this the first time he said it was a misunderstanding?