Newbie Mafia 12 FMP Fumoffu!: Game over!

[th3kuzinator]

@kuz, do you actually want me to respond to #746?

Yes, I would like you to explain where your AA read went to. What is your read on him currently?

If scum, why did you not include him in your list despite the previous pressure. If town, what convinced you from 720 until present?

 

[th3kuzinator]

...personally i would prefer if you experienced people played between each other as if it was a normal game, and only cut us noobs some slack when necessary

so i can see what a normal game looks like...

I want to win. Winning a newbie game does not encompass basing lynches off of newbie mistakes. If I see a slip that could be interpreted as scummy from an experienced player but looks understandable being made from a first timer, I will not get that person lynched with only that in mind.

That's the definition of opportunism, and I have seen plenty of that coming from experienced players this game already.

 

[X1-12]

he's still scum, I just forgot about it in the post with the list of scummies.

 

[th3kuzinator]

Oh I see, honest mistake then.

@Ranmaru, remind me of what you think about Swords.

@AA: Thoughts on Ranmaru

 

[ranmaru]

I have said that I didn't feel he was helping much as an IC. Especially with that replace out he did.

He also sort of sheeped some of my advice earlier on, and I don't remember what else he has done that was GOOD or HELPFUL.

 

[Fynal]

@ran:

are you, at this point, comfortable with a swords lynch toDay?

 

[th3kuzinator]

@Ran: Again, you just summarize what he has done and don't put ANY analysis into it. You say his ICing was less than stellar, congratulations but do you find him scummy or not scummy. Its really not that hard to give stances, but you are intentionally playing the mediator and I don't like it one bit.

You STILL have not commented on TBS's mindset being scummy or not. All I ahve gotten out of you is that its incorrect and its a newb tell. Newb tells can go both ways and you know this.

From this point onward, DONT talk about ICing or use it as an outlet for conversation.

@Fyanl: Say Swords, for whatever reason, suddenly become NOT the play toDay. Who would go for next and why?

@AA: Same question to you.

 

[asianaussie]

Still unchanged as null-scummish, basically everything he's posted since my previous opinion on him is something to do with IC/SE behaviour as opposed to actual contribution. Tentatively leaning towards scum though, still not going to decide.

Unrelated question, there should be an IC or at least an SE in the scum faction, yes?

 

[th3kuzinator]

Unrelated question, there should be an IC or at least an SE in the scum faction, yes?

Maybe, maybe not. Its setup speculation and something I am never too much of a fan of. Going by sheer numbers, I would suspect so but there are always outliers. In newbie 10, both ICs were town. Don't let it factor into your thought process too much, it will severely hurt your scumdar.

 

[asianaussie]

@ kuz's latest question about next scum pick

Either Gova or TBS. Sounds like it's because Gova was getting at me, but Gova made oversights in his pursuit of me and keep pushing a 'contradiction' that was explained by the sentence immediately after his so-called contradictory evidence. Even after Seikend explained why it wasn't a contradiction, he continued to badger and ended up trying to pin me on difference in definition (of the word 'analysis').

TBS...I can't really say why, what he's doing just seems sort of reactionary rather than proactive, sort of like he doesn't want to say anything to draw too much attention.

 

[ranmaru]

@Ran: Again, you just summarize what he has done and don't put ANY analysis into it. You say his ICing was less than stellar, congratulations but do you find him scummy or not scummy. Its really not that hard to give stances, but you are intentionally playing the mediator and I don't like it one bit.

You STILL have not commented on TBS's mindset being scummy or not. All I ahve gotten out of you is that its incorrect and its a newb tell. Newb tells can go both ways and you know this.

From this point onward, DONT talk about ICing or use it as an outlet for conversation.

@Fyanl: Say Swords, for whatever reason, suddenly become NOT the play toDay. Who would go for next and why?

@AA: Same question to you.

I have said before Swords hasn't given stances. That's all I got on him. Then he gave them because he was asked to. Then he replaced. I have nothing else to think about that.

But him sheeping my advice has nothing with him being an IC. So he didn't give stances at first, and sheeped me a bit. It's null to me.

I said Newb NULL for TBS. Don't say I only said newb tell, you are twisting my words. NULL means it could go both ways.

 

[Gova]

Went home for the weekend to attend a tourney. I'm back now though.

@ kuz's latest question about next scum pick

Either Gova or TBS. Sounds like it's because Gova was getting at me, but Gova made oversights in his pursuit of me and keep pushing a 'contradiction' that was explained by the sentence immediately after his so-called contradictory evidence. Even after Seikend explained why it wasn't a contradiction, he continued to badger and ended up trying to pin me on difference in definition (of the word 'analysis').

If there are oversights point them out. Am I lying scum or just an incorrect townie? Also, you need to communicate effectively in this game. Poor communication plays a large part in people's mindsets in determining whether or not someone is scum.

 

[ranmaru]

@ran:

are you, at this point, comfortable with a swords lynch toDay?

Yeah it's ok. I'm ok for dragging the day out too tho.

Why?

 

[th3kuzinator]

TBS...I can't really say why, what he's doing just seems sort of reactionary rather than proactive, sort of like he doesn't want to say anything to draw too much attention.

Can you show me the posts that led you to this conclusion?


@Gova, 3 scum picks and why.


@Ranmaru, are you playing any different this game that how you would normally play to cater to the newbies?

 

[Fynal]

@kuz

ran and aa (possibly together) are my scumpicks behind swords, if thats what you're getting at. ATM i only have their posting tenancies + other's suspicions + "gut feeling" if you will, theres a lot that i need to look at more in-depth when people arn't posting as much

 

[asianaussie]

@ kuz, never mind, I don't think he's scum anymore, he contributed reasonably on page 17 (40ppp), I just hadn't seen him posting a great deal.

@ Gova, I apologise if I was unclear, but you kept assuming that when I said 'analysis', I also included (X1's) conclusion in using that term. I distinguished the two repeatedly and you continued to press the two together (using the phrase 'conclusion aka analysis' iirc). It's possible for you to be town, but equally possible for you to be scum, since I felt you were pressing me repeatedly without reading my defence (or Seikend's, for that matter) properly.

 

[Fynal]

@ran

was wondering if your dislike of how he played IC was enough to convince you he should be lynched or not

 

[Fynal]

EBWOP

could be reasonably lynched or not

 

[ranmaru]

Don't you love tables? I DO <3

@Kuz:
Not really. I am pressuring all the same. It's just that I give advice DISREGARDING the IC's because adfoiasdfjasdf I don't want town to lose because of misinfo gap. You can say I am paranoid of the IC's, yet this time I'm trying to focus on the newbs instead of the IC's.
I won't stop from speaking even if it means my death. xP
Although you are right to tell me that i'm wrong about some sort of Newb tells.

SO KUZ, WHY DID YOU SAY I SAID NEWB TELL AND NOT NEWB NULL HUH? YOU IGNORED THAT BUDDY.

@Fyn: Nah. Not just IC. But his general PLAY. Only bad things were: He didn't post stances until asked, and sheeped me a bit. What you should do, is look at everyone (including me) who support his lynch. Do you think it's mostly townies who see timid scum behavior, or do you see malicious intent in the wagoning of a possible townie?

@All: Remember to speak up. Do not be afraid to voice your concerns, even though it might get you some heat thrown back at you. That is the price. Burden of proof.

 

[Gova]

@Kuz

In no particular order Ran, Swords, and AA.

Ran, from what I recall posts a lot of "IC" stuff and hasn't really been contributing.

Swords, for mostly early game stuff, had no content and was fluffing. This is also a little meta biased since in RG he said when he gets scum he isn't interested in playing the game.

AA, see like two pages ago, or wherever I went into detail about X1's question. Lack of scumhunting from my perspective as well. See paragraph below too.

@ kuz, never mind, I don't think he's scum anymore, he contributed reasonably on page 17 (40ppp), I just hadn't seen him posting a great deal.

@ Gova, I apologise if I was unclear, but you kept assuming that when I said 'analysis', I also included (X1's) conclusion in using that term. I distinguished the two repeatedly and you continued to press the two together (using the phrase 'conclusion aka analysis' iirc). It's possible for you to be town, but equally possible for you to be scum, since I felt you were pressing me repeatedly without reading my defence (or Seikend's, for that matter) properly.

With respect to the bolded, this doesn't actually answer my question. I don't care whether or not you have a town read or scum read on me just as long as you show why you have that read. It shows that you're scumhunting and playing for town but all you keep doing or, at least from what I remember is just saying that it's possible that someone could be both and not really deciding which. Not to mention the fact that you just answered Kuz's question about who you would go for next should the Swords lynch not happen and you chose me but, still you say it's possible I could be scum or town? I also got to the point where I understood Seikends way of thinking and vice versa, or at least that's the impression I got when I was interacting with him.

 

[th3kuzinator]

In no particular order Ran, Swords, and AA.

 

[Gova]

@Kuz:
Not really. I am pressuring all the same. It's just that I give advice DISREGARDING the IC's because adfoiasdfjasdf I don't want town to lose because of misinfo gap. You can say I am paranoid of the IC's, yet this time I'm trying to focus on the newbs instead of the IC's.
I won't stop from speaking even if it means my death. xP
Although you are right to tell me that i'm wrong about some sort of Newb tells.

SO KUZ, WHY DID YOU SAY I SAID NEWB TELL AND NOT NEWB NULL HUH? YOU IGNORED THAT BUDDY.

@Fyn: Nah. Not just IC. But his general PLAY. Only bad things were: He didn't post stances until asked, and sheeped me a bit. What you should do, is look at everyone (including me) who support his lynch. Do you think it's mostly townies who see timid scum behavior, or do you see malicious intent in the wagoning of a possible townie?

@All: Remember to speak up. Do not be afraid to voice your concerns, even though it might get you some heat thrown back at you. That is the price. Burden of proof.

Ran, everyone knows how to play the game by this point. If they have a question they'll ask it. Quit making posts like this.

A noob tell and noob null are the same thing. If something is a noob tell it isn't indicitive of that person's alignment which means it's a null tell.

 

[ranmaru]

NO I will not quit doing that. Sheesh stop speaking for others.

Exactly. "You STILL have not commented on TBS's mindset being scummy or not. All I ahve gotten out of you is that its incorrect and its a newb tell. Newb tells can go both ways and you know this."

I said Null, it that it could go either way. Yet notice the underlined, he states that as if I DIDN'T explain that it was null.

 

[th3kuzinator]

SO KUZ, WHY DID YOU SAY I SAID NEWB TELL AND NOT NEWB NULL HUH? YOU IGNORED THAT BUDDY.

They're practically the same thing and the nitpik is unimportant anything.

What I am more concerned about is why you took the newb-null tell and said you would be fine with TBS dying because of it. Despite there being plenty of scummy things to comment on, you choose to focus on TBS for a newbie null tell and the rest of your content is talking about us IC

That's the definition of opportunism, and I have seen plenty of that coming from experienced players this game already.

 

[ranmaru]

That's why I don't mind him going. Could go either Scum or town for me. ;o

 

[th3kuzinator]

So you would rather kill off a null newbie than scummy players (and trust me this game has them)?

Yeahhhhhhhhhhhh no

 

[ranmaru]

I haven't seen any scumminess really. Only scumminess I saw:

Jtb and Fynal.

Swords was meh.

Everything else is nulls.

If I see scumminess, i'd lynch that over a null. We were actually in the process of lynching JTB, but then Fynal came along, and... things just stalled.

 

[TheBlueSpot]

But then you are willing to let me go over Swords, while you state I am a definite Null, swords is a meh, and while not a scientific term, I would love it to be clarified

 

[JTB]

So Ran, you are saying that you were willing to lynch me like, a few days into D1?

 

[ranmaru]

@TBS Station:
Quite the contrary. I'm ok with either of you going in whatever order.

@JTB: Yeah, I just got off to pressure Fynal.

 

[th3kuzinator]

Though badly worded, TBS is right. Despite you having 2 scum reads you are willing to let them go toDay because of the Swords lynch which you seem indifferent to. Even stranger, you are caught up on killing TBS, a main null read for you, while again letting your scummies get off scot-free. Looks to me like you honestly don't care about convincing town to see things your way.

@Ran: If I told you to hammer Sword right now, what would you do?

 

[ranmaru]

I'd hammer him. Doesn't matter to me

I already explained that in the above post though. Of course I do care.

 

[Gova]

Lol, nice quick edit there Ran.

 

[JTB]

Ran, please repeat for us why you had a scum read on me.

 

[TheBlueSpot]

Is it just me or does doesn't matter, whatever, seem quite contradictory to Ofcourse I do care?

 

[ranmaru]

No.

Doesn't matter to me if I hammer or not.

Of course I care refers to me caring about CONVINCING. Two different things there, TBS.

Did you not read Kuz's post before that?

 

[th3kuzinator]

>Wants to wagon Ranmaru
>Remembers Swords is still hella scummy

 

[th3kuzinator]

I also just re-read newbie 9 where Swords was a town IC.

Looks absolutely nothing like his performance this game.

 

[ranmaru]

Really? How was it there?

 

[TheBlueSpot]

Wait quick question aren't we not allowed to edit our posts?

4. Editing your posts is not allowed[/COLOR].

Or is it ok before a certain period of time, honestly just wondering.