Newbie 23 // MGS3 Villains Mafia - Game Over

[Tyranitarphantom]

It takes 4 to lynch, not 3

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

wait it deffo is :/

hmm, and i was so enjoying being town.

Soup can still have ice cream, Ran doesn't get any for being scum.

No.

is dat hammer 0-0

No.

welp that was anti-climactic

No.

Ran HAS a hammer on you. You ARE at L-1 there is no reason why you should be this way when your top scum read can get you at any point. You cannot be town. I refuse to believe it.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

If Tyr is going to jail soup, then he's basically sacrificing himself to a night kill and blocking soup from getting a night report. We're going to end up back here again with the same leg on the game, however Rakescum is going to be lynched and Tyrjail will be killed. That more or less would leave us in a similar position tomorrow with soup, me, Ran, and whoever ends up replacing Badwolf. We're going to be circling the same questions that we will be circling today. Tbh I don't know if I can use the next 3 days to any extent given I hit the peak of my work week tomorrow until the end of Friday. HOWEVER, there's nothing that we get from the night if we stick to those actions. At least, there's nothing that will benefit me. I believe that it is far better for Tyr to at least wifom her jail between defending soup and blocking a top scum pick. I would of course throw Ranmaru up there, but w/e it's up to him. Tyr your jail tonight if put on scum could give us the de facto last mafia. There are some things I would like to add later when I get home.

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

Ran here. Here are three simple tips you should follow for now:



-What time zone are you in?
-How much mafia experience do you have, here or elsewhere?
-Why are you playing in this game?
-Say something no one knows about you! : D

OH AND DON'T YOU DARE EDIT YOUR POSTS, THAT'S NOT ALLOWED

-CST
-A bit
- I replace into too many games for my own sanity
- I can bike at speeds up to 30 km/h

How are you reading Ttar now that the wagon is done and over with? (Since you are now voting Vinyl)



Ok then. The reason I asked was it felt a bit, over the top for a joke. Has your previous opening 'omgus' posts been as over the top as this one?



No, I didn't miss anything, actually. I'll fill you in. See, you said you didn't want to push it because you were expecting Badwolf to not give a good answer regardless of alignment, yet I think that was closer to him trying to paint you as scum, and I want him to clarify how he got you confused. I feel as though you are just letting Bad go because you don't want to deal with the 'process' of doing so, and I feel you should have kept pushing.

Now tell me how you think my vote is off?

You asked me for my reads on Ttar and Stem? I have no solid reads on them. They haven't done enough to give me a read. Yet, they aren't on my radar since they haven't done anything I'm suspicious of.

I am also suspicious of Vinyl, slightly. Why? Because he isn't doing anything, and I'd expect him to do more. He's being a bit trolly and I don't like it.



Hey, Badwolf, can you actually answer my questions? I'll quote them for you in the next post.



Of course not. What is your opinion on Monstrmna?

Underlined : Basically ran immediately undermining whatever you were working on wrt Badwulf, and he essentially lightly calls you out on it, but why does he need to ? I'll answer, because needs to undermine your position in everyone else's eyes.

Underlined wrt vinyl: being trolly =/= scummy and vinyl is a definite case of someone who trolling is a complete null tell, Ran simply stretches the facts to match his "hypothesis" that vinyl was scum. And expecting him to do more ? It's vinyl for gorf's sake, he literally rode out Breaking Bad mafia.

Really? Your reasons for your suspicions on Badwolf and Vinyl are very weak though. Did it really take you a re-read to finally come to that conclusion?

Another instance of Ran just plain undermining a slot, note how he gives very little to no BotD , when before he had passed off monstra's trolling based on what monstra had stated .

Also consider you say you re-read, but you only mentioned those two scum reads because BSP asked you to, not because you were being pro-active.

Also, can you tell me what exactly about Badwolf's reactions make him scummy to you?

Also, my question to you was how aggressiveness = scummyness.

Bold + Underlined:

You say the reason for not lynching Monstrmna is because of gut, and that he is neutral to you. Why would you want to save someone who is only neutral to you? (Your other two reads, me and Soup, are town reads correct?, how does Monstrmna fit with town reads for 'not lynching'?)

Again stretching small points to paint a slot as scummy, of course he's going to mention scum reads if someone asks for them, that is the point of asking , Ran doesn't even seem to consider that stem would have done it regardless.


WRT saving monstra : Why wouldn't he want to save someone who is null ? Ran is treating it like everyone you don't have as town should be eliminated, and it is gross.

I see.

Stem is scum. He states he doesn't have suspicion, yet when asked, he comes up with some. His responses don't alleviate my concerns. It seems he stated suspicions to appease BSP. Also, I don't see his reasons for his scumreads for being a result of a re-read. I also find his vote on Monstrmna opportunistic, rather, I think it's a bus. He originally said he wouldn't want to lynch him, yet is fine now. He mentions he didn't notice Monsta 'keeping him at an arms notice', yet has re-read and has also noted that Monsta didn't talk much. Also keep in mind Monsta's 'actions' were recent, and Stem acts as it's something that had happened in the past that he somehow didn't see. (This seems like a cover up so he can move onto Monsta and hope that he survives)



Underlined, he tried to justify his weak suspicion on Vinyl by saying that he had already noted it, yet he hasn't at all. This just seems more like an excuse and I find it scummy as well.

Vote: Stem

Underlined : Stretching the same worn path
Italicized: Just because it seems that way, doesn't mean it is that way, and yet that's exactly how Ran treats it, like because it seems that way, it must be that way.
Bolded: Pile on statements + a random scum mate choice.
Second Bolded: See italicized

And of course, Monsta is scum with him.

Soup is town. BSP town. Vinyl null-town. Bad downgraded to null.

Monstra is just scum with whoever Ran picks out of the crowd to lynch.

Another thing: I have played off-site in mafia, and have also been confronted with the 'aggressive people who want to lynch are scum' meta. Stem coming in and just laying now, and being neutral (not having suspects, not pushing anything) seems like something Mafia would do with the perspective of thinking Mafia are usually aggressive, which isn't true here. It also makes sense with Stem posting statements that don't really PUSH people at all, just disagree with things while being all fluffy and nice.

Something i really dislike is how Ran keeps pointing to past instances of games, treating this one like it would go the same way, it's a tactic i used in Paper mario newbie to offset suspicion on me by bringing up my old meta. The fact that Ran does the same, and actually uses it to make more pile on statements onto STEM are why i believe he is scum.

I would still lynch the other one. They are both very scummy individually. And I was initially going for Stem in the first place. Also, I like counter wagons because of information. I want to see what people choose and why.

Do you think it's possible the chances are higher Monstrmna will flip scum than Stem?

Goes back to justify the STEM lynch, without suspicion, it looks and reads like scumRan saying "oh i was already in support of it, so it turning out badly isn't my fault".

No, BSP is town.

Lynch one of Monstrmna/Vinyl tommorow. I said Vinyl null town because he was starting to shape up, but I didn't like his post referring to BSP as sheep. BSP has already pointed out some scummy things from Monstrmna, and I think Stem as well so I can see where his head was.

Again monstra keeps popping up with all of Ran's other scum picks, he can't be scum with STEM so he must be scum with vinyl. Excuse me what ?

BSP, my plan goes regardless of flip. Monstrmna has been scummy still, and Vinyl still gives some vibes that I don't like. Those are good directions for tommorow. And the rest of my plan.

And yet he moved off monstra in favor of STEM, if Ran actually had as solid a read s he said he had, he would have been all over monstra till death, but instead he's moved to the easier lynches opportunistically.

That is highly ****ing incredible what you just said. It's like you actually confirm I'm scum without hassle.

My thoughts exactly.

Loli, it seems like you are trying to make Monstrmna's actions seem to be more than what they really are. For example, the exact reason Monstrmna voted Vinyl was for the quote he quoted of Vinyl. I don't see how you can confused that with malicious intent, and it seems like you are asking him just to make him clarify something he doesn't have to, like tacking on a question to a suspicious target. (The reason for his vote is stated, but you act like you have a concern of not knowing why he was voting)

The rest of your post shows you trying to paint Monstra in a scummy light, instead of bringing new information to the table. For example, you mention that it is scummy for him to vote his top suspicion yet still not be entirely sure, which isn't true. You try to make that into something scummy, and I find you are trying to mislynch Monstra.

You also ask Badwolf and Vinyl questions, Town read and Null read, yet you don't even ask Ttar anything (another null read). You also don't ask Soup anything, as he is a null to you as well.

This is why I'm voting for you.

I find Ran trying to set up Loli's ML already by painting her catch up post in bad light.
Ran hasn't brought any new information to the table on monstra / my lynch, he's simply rolling with Soup based off this "old suspicion".

It's a given that some of our content would be IC posts, but not all of them. In the very beginning, I had TWO IC posts, and then a content post. So really, you have no reason to ignore my posts. At some times Soup and Me would chime in on things, yet I don't think we really stuck to our IC hats in between.
It's true the wagon isn't as substantial, yet I think soup and I covered that, him asking the whole wagon to explain why they suspect Vinyl, and me asking Bad why he voted Vinyl. Also, I think Soup and I agree that the newbs can just learn by example. I would rather play and just let the newbs see that's the way they should play. (If a newb does something dumb, we'll say that they shouldn't do that, etc) I'm just going to assume the flow doesn't work for your playstyle, and I disagree that it's a bad flow. I'll leave it at that, because the flow is already created.
Also, I see you being concerned about how the wagon is formed, but what exactly is your opinion on Vinyl?

Fluff post and underlined: allies himself with Soup to make himself look townier : i.e "oh one person did this or that thing which is townie based and i did to so i must be town. Nope.

]Vinyl was trolling because he didn't know how to emulate town scumhunting[/U]. When he is town he would naturally be asking people questions and being obvtown. I don't see how your point of how he'd play RVS along with a scummate would make sense. Loli (your predecessor) never posted so there would be no cohesion there anyways. Also keep in mind after his 'troll' votes he also voted your slot.

I also don't like that you see Badwolf trying yet you say you don't buy it, but you don't really show why he would. Your points don't convince me.

Vote: Vinyl

I also don't think we'll need a deadline extension. I don't see why you waited so long to give reads. I think your catch up didn't help at all and was very vague in showing your thought process. I am interested to see why you feel Monstrmna and I are scum.

Also, gonna go into Lylo/Mylo/End-game talk now. Feel free to talk about this and ask questions before deadline.

Underlined: Terrible stretch on vinyl and probably the weakest way to try and justify being on vinyl's wagon.

Italicized: i missed the part where Ran describes what obvTown is or does. Or why vinyl can't be town without being obvTown. He treats it like because vinyl isn't town to him, he therefore can't be town

Bolded: Already moving toward acro in the middle of something else and it reads like scum setting up their next ML

I want to step down from my accusation about you 'not buying' Badwolf's case.

Underlined, that is not true. We do know what to make of him, yet you seemed very reluctant of reading Vinyl as scum from the very start. I think you are trying to give him the benefit of the doubt, and act as if we would just lynch TownVinyl because he is a liability? That's a bunch of bull, because I sure as hell would not lynch a TownVinyl. Check Newbie 17 where I had a strong town read on him, and got lynched for protecting my town read. Guess what, he rode out to lylo as the Town Doc, so it was not for nothing. I wouldn't just lynch Vinyl if I thought he was town, I think he is scum and Soup agrees.

It's time to end Vinyl. Also notice how Vinyl tries to use Badwolf's activity as an excuse to call him scum, even though Badwolf DID deliver his case. That is scummy coming from Vinyl.

Underlined: notice how he backs off acro ever so slightly ?
Bolded: again, using previous games to justify his lynch on vinyl and his reaction to the fact that people may not consider him town.

Second underlined: Pile on and agrro.

I hope you're town because this is my list also if Vinyl. doesn't flip scum. Something about Ranmaru is off for sure. Talk to me more about it.

Were did this go Soup ?

What I am noticing from Ttar is he is being very... un-involved. Like "Knock knock, coming to play the game or what?" kind of vibe. I don't know if he's stalling or just not as interested in the game as others.

I mean he couldn't even stay long enough to converse with me. I also notice him throwing out questions to me and Soup, yet they don't really... help find scum or do much. Like "Do you think this lynch is viable" or "What other targets do you think are viable" and doesn't really follow up with it, or do anything with it at all. Come on what the heck are you doing. I don't see what he is waiting for now.

God this game is so slow.

Again painting a slot in a scummy light for no other reason than he can, and basically passes it off as a "pace of the game thing".

Yeah sorry your replace in 'content' was crap and it didn't help us understand who you really thought was scum until the very last moment, oh hey when you mention me and Monstrmna. You instead of scumhunting, focused on Vinyl's wagon. I didn't see this as helpful and your thoughts weren't as transparent.

I didn't think Vinyl was scummy simply for trolling, to read people you have to understand how they tick and I have already covered Monstrmna's troll post and he said that he usually opened like that. So, Vinyl trolls because he doesn't know how to act town, and Monstrmna acted trolly in his opening post because he most likely thinks it's fun, since he does it most of the times.

I honestly don't remember what I questioned you about because my focus wasn't on you at the time, and I would have to look back to talk about why I didn't follow up. I'm going to assume you ignored my questions relating to you not having much reads etc, and I think you can still answer them because I still think they are important in reading you.

You also are trying to use my playstyle against me when I usually question due to curiosity. I feel you are adding it to your reasons to feel more justified when fake voting me. I don't see it as indicative of alignment.

Aggro on acro again and more of Ran taking the time to discredit a slot.

Bolded : justifying vinyl based on how he compared him to monstra what ?

Italicized: Another over reaction to someone suggesting that his playstyle isn't pro-town. And he uses it to discredit acro's vote on him by calling it a fake vote.

Ok thank you.



Underlined, why don't you read my explanations first before jumping to conclusions? Also you have stated a problem with my playstyle before yet you never found me scummy for it in Ryker's Ryker Mafia. (In fact you said it aligned with your Mafia Theory even though it got on your nerves)

Again, talking about past games as if acros stances wouldn't have changed since ryker mafia.

More to come later but for now :

Vote : Ranmaru

 

[#HBC | Kary]

/ VOTECOUNT 3-3

Acrostic (1); Ranmaru
TyranitarPhantom (0);
BadWolf28738 (0);
Anomandaris_Rake (3); Ragnarock, TyranitarPhantom, Acrostic
Ranmaru (2); Badwolf28738, Anomandaris_Rake
Ragnarock (0);

Not Voting (0);

With 6 alive it takes 4 to lynch!
Deadline is Friday, September 28th, at 7PM EST.

..................................................

Sorry about lack of adequate votecounts. Mobile access was much more *** than anticipated. Above should be correct. Looking for a replacement for Badwolf now

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

man, ran must really think monstra was scum , look how hard he is voting him...oh wait

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

Soup, i want you to tell me the difference between me not going for the hammer and how Ran hasn't dropped in to hammer monstra when he has the support and the time.

I'll even tell you, it's because he's been sitting on this ML all game and now that it's come ful swing he knows he can't risk hammer me because i will flip town and all of you will see that exactly what i have been putting out there is true. He knows he couldn't explain his way out of that hole.

 

[ranmaru]

man, ran must really think monstra was scum , look how hard he is voting him...oh wait

Rake, I want you to tell me what the point of saying this was.

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

i'm calling you out.

Either hammer me or convince me that your town with how you've been playing

 

[ranmaru]

It sounds to me you are trying to paint me as scummy for NOT hammering you?

I want you to answer, why WOULD I want to hammer you?

Since you are 'calling me out', why don't you call me out with the things that concern you? Not that big wall, but I want you to cite 1-2 examples, the strongest of your case, and 1-2 sentences of why you are concerned with my play and I'll explain it and you decide on if it is legit or not.

 

[ranmaru]

One more question: How do you feel about how your wagon has developed, and the people on it? Do you think your wagon is fueled legitly? Answer why or why not.

 

[ranmaru]

Hello.

• Someone give a concrete reason as to why Monstrmrna is town.
• State your reads, tell me who we should lynch today.
• Lay your vote down.

Soup, the first question, I don't see a point to other people stating why he may be town if you don't give a 'why he is scum' reason.

I just wanted to state this. Guys, remember, the burden of proof is on you (when you want to lynch a suspect, you have to bring the evidence to damn him, and not others to clear him without evidence being there in the first place)

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

1) Yes, you've said monstra and by extension my slot has been scummy all game , so why not hammer it ? You've already made your case and yet your here dragging your feet, if you were as sold as you make it seem you would have hammered.

2)I don't particularly have a problem with my wagon, i think it's ill-informed and fueled mainly by how much soup hates how monstra played this game , but i can see the frustration, when i was following this game i had monstra as a scum pick myself, it turns out he is actually just that bad. Now with Tyr he's following and hasn't stated too much that i can recall to as why, so i' would be more comfortable if he delved into that, especially considering he brought up you possibly being scum at some point , then dropped it without explanation as i recall. Acrostic seems to be following soups line of thought and i think he stated somewhere my scum flip would sell him on interactions he has been seeing between you and i. I could go examine the wagon in depth later on in the day and give you a solid idea of how i feel each player was leading up to their vote on me, but it ain't gonna happen till later.

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

i'd call the fueling just legit enough to secure a lynch, but not so legit that i can go: man this wagon is great and the people on it aren't on it in some cases for little to no reason as i recall.

If that makes any sense

 

[ranmaru]

1. You have to remember that currently, we haven't lynched scum yet Rake. If we lynch town today, and a townie is killed during the night, we lose because most likely there will be 2 scum to endgame us. Meaning there is possibly no day tommorow. Aren't you thinking of that when you say "Hammer me". Do you think a town player would just go for an easy lynch, or scum?

2. Ok, who on your wagon do you think is most likely to be scum and why? Why are you ok with people getting on your wagon?

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

i think that before you seemed supremely confident in monstra and by extension my scumminess and seemed to be all aboard a lynching until now when you seem to be doubting yourself, and it makes me wonder why your backing off. And i don't buy the possible no day tomorrow bit at all. Is it a possibility , yes, but as i recall you never seemed all that concerned about it before

2. i'll hit this later

3. Am i scum Ran, what's your read on Rake

 

[ranmaru]

i think that before you seemed supremely confident in monstra and by extension my scumminess and seemed to be all aboard a lynching until now when you seem to be doubting yourself, and it makes me wonder why your backing off. And i don't buy the possible no day tomorrow bit at all. Is it a possibility , yes, but as i recall you never seemed all that concerned about it before

2. i'll hit this later

3. Am i scum Ran, what's your read on Rake

Underlined, I want you to quote where you thought this was the case.
Bold, I want you to go into when you think I dropped off, and why you think that point was off.

You are null to me. I have to see why you are pushing this, to be able to read you, which is why I'm asking you questions.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Soup, i want you to tell me the difference between me not going for the hammer and how Ran hasn't dropped in to hammer monstra when he has the support and the time.

I'll even tell you, it's because he's been sitting on this ML all game and now that it's come ful swing he knows he can't risk hammer me because i will flip town and all of you will see that exactly what i have been putting out there is true. He knows he couldn't explain his way out of that hole.

We are in Mylo. There is no room for error. He could just win the game right now if he was scum.

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

but when i didn't instantly go for a "hammer "that makes my slot scummy soup ? Excuse me while i go find a larger double standard to live by

 

[ranmaru]

Rake are you going to answer me?

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

When did I ever imply this? You're scummy because you replaced into a terrible slot and your posts haven't been any better.

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

hitting whatever was addressed to me

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

2. Ok, who on your wagon do you think is most likely to be scum and why? Why are you ok with people getting on your wagon?

If nothing else it will be awesome sauce for interactions and read development post my currently impending lynch. Most likely of those 3 ? Honestly if i absolutely had to i would say Tyr just on the basis that from what i recall of his pushes he has been very "there" i also remember agreeing with something you said during the vinyl lynch stage about he was delaying the lynch by asking empty questions. Also, i'm not so sure he's ever given any sort of explanation as to why he's following Soup on this (if i missed it then my bad).

i'm kind of keeping Tyr as a softer town read because there have been things i have caught myself doubling back on and looking at.

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

Opinion on Acrostic?

Ttar, are you satisfied? When will you vote (hammer) Vinyl?

Rake are you going to answer me?

I'll get exact quotes where i feel that way tomorrow(school is driving me up a wall :/) but i really feel like interms of how badly you wanted Monstra early in game and throughout the days, that there has been a drop off of your interest in seeing this lynch through.

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

Soup , it was implied by you stating "he could have already won as scum" when you were prompting me to vote ran when he was at "l-1" , when he was not , if i had tried to hammer, you simply would have called that scummy because i went for a hammer in mylo instead of getting the most out of the day, i didn't do this and you called me scum for hesitating , now that ran has the opportunity to hammer but is dragging his feet, you create a double standard based by not treating it in a reasonably similar way regardless of your read on him, minne based off the fact you didn't like monstra's play.

Also, what bothers you about my posts particularly ?

 

[Tyranitarphantom]

I'd like to hear what these things you've caught are, Rake.

Whenever you get the time

 

[#HBC | Kary]

deadline in like 24 hours

fyi

/casual

 

[ranmaru]

I'll get exact quotes where i feel that way tomorrow(school is driving me up a wall :/) but i really feel like interms of how badly you wanted Monstra early in game and throughout the days, that there has been a drop off of your interest in seeing this lynch through.

Rake, you aren't looking at WHY I wasn't as interested in Monstrmna. You are being too lenient with your own wagon and I can't tell if you are scum trying to use reverse scumtells that shouldn't work on me, or just annoyed that you are put in this situation as town and being paranoid at the person who ISN'T voting you. You have been so dragged up on ME that you didn't give yourself enough time to look at OTHERS.

Deadline is soon, and not much else I can do.

I'm going to call the scumteam right now and hope I'm right before something happens:

Acrostic/Soup.

(If Rake flips scum, than Acrostic/Rake)

Vote: Rake

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

my fists of fury have just cost town one more member.

meh

/not that mad

 

[ranmaru]

Rake, any final thoughts? Who else do you think is scum and why?

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

still think your scum.
this isn't even omgus, this is Rake saying your play is off in a scummy manner.

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

that being said, monstra is quite possibly THE WORST TOWN PLAYER in the history of anything ever
his reaction to pressure from Soup when i was following this game pretty much had me on the same train as you / Soup

 

[ranmaru]

still think your scum.
this isn't even omgus, this is Rake saying your play is off in a scummy manner.

Underlined, how?

Do you have no other scumpicks?

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

i'm not really going to be too salty over being lynched here as no possible course of action by me could have prevented this. Even with quotes to back up my points i would have never gotten you or badwulf (my other scum pick lynched)

 

[ranmaru]

that being said, monstra is quite possibly THE WORST TOWN PLAYER in the history of anything ever
his reaction to pressure from Soup when i was following this game pretty much had me on the same train as you / Soup

Did you think it was faked before you came in?

Also, bad play =/= scummy play.

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

i've already explained how, if you want more i'll be here post game to elaborate.

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

what do you mean fake Ran ?

 

[ranmaru]

You said that his reaction from pressure had you on the same train as me and Soup. I assumed you thought it was scummy of him from saying this.

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

Yeah, i thought he was just moaning a whining to do some sort of Ate

 

[ranmaru]

i've already explained how, if you want more i'll be here post game to elaborate.

Here is the thing. You really aren't trying to figure out my alignment here. You are just stating that i'm scum because my play is off. Why can't you just state it in one sentence? Either way, think of me as town. What exactly would you have to re-consider, to see that?