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Newbie 17 - Breaking Bad Mafia! Game over! Who won?

#HBC | Kary

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Hi guys, seems like the ball's started rolling!

@Ran, I started the Shotty waggon, I'm already on it. JDietz self voting doesn't look suspicious to me, it looks like he's joking. Is self-voting like that right at the start of the game something I should be worried about?

@Zen, I was re-asking your question, i.e. what alignment people had been in previous games. People had posted saying how many games they'd been in, presumably in answer to you, but not what they'd played as etc.
Someone I know plays mafia on this forum, they also play melee. I got interested in playing mafia from talking to them about it, so here seemed a good a place as any, as i'd rather be able to play with/against them occasionally.

I hope that covers everything, I'm happy to field any more questions while I'm here.
 

ranmaru

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Oh you did. Man I counted that vote too but just assumed your 'not confident' post meant you were interested in joining it. Haha.

Ok Kary. Why haven't you commented on Zen, or Vitamon C? Zen has asked about you, and Vitamon has given a suspicion about you. Don't you think you should address this?

So please give me an opinion on Zen and Vitamon.

Why didn't you ask him to join the Shotty wagon?

JD self voting should be considered suspicious, yes. If you vote yourself, you are not helping town because you already know your own alignment. It stunts the growth of information to town and just shows you are afraid of getting someone omgus from another person.
 

VitaminC

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But why didn't you comment on it?

Why is Kary null leaning scum to you?
It didn't strike me to do so at the time. I figured I could respond to it as it became more prominent, i.e. Shotty actually posts.

The only reason I have for Kary leaning scum is his attempt to start a wagon so early. It seems as though he's already trying to move attention to someone other than him and get the town on his side. Although as I write this post, I realise it's not really any kind of scumtell. But meh. My suspicion remains.
 

#HBC | Kary

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@Ran: Well, if I haven't commented on Zen or VitaminC yet it's probably because it seems to me to be too early in the game to be commenting on other people just yet. But since you asked, here we go.

Zen- well, I like him so far. He apparently has a read on you already, hence his vote for you- that or it's some sort of gambit to put you under pressure, which I also like. I think he answered my questions well, and has a pretty similar viewpoint to mine which is JUSTICE!!!
Obviously my view of him may change depending on the reasoning for your vote which he promised.

VitaminC- well, he seems ok to me. Apparently you called him on not putting a random vote out, and he brushed that off ok. We seem to be on the same page about the Shottymaster waggon, and he's given a read of me which I think shows the sort of involvement that I want to get behind.

I haven't asked either of them to join me in voting Shottymaster, but then again I asked you individually as a test to see how you'd react. I don't plan on asking them at this time as they've their own waggon now, much as I'd like to surprise Shotty with five or so votes against him when he logs on.

I've a question for you, Ran- do you think voting for someone 'randomly' at the start of the game is a bad thing?
 

JTB

Live for the applause
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With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch!
Deadline 4/22, 11:59 PM EST

Vinyl. [0]
Aleate [0]
Ori_bro [0]
o-Serin-o [1] Vinyl.
GLG [0]
VitaminC [0]
Shottymaster [3] Kary, Ori_bro, Ranmaru
Jdietz [1] Jdietz
Kary [0]
Zen [0]
th3kuzinator [0]
Ranmaru [2] VitaminC , Zen

Not voting: Aleate, o-Serin-o, GLG, Shottymaster, th3kuzinator
 

#HBC | Kary

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@VitaminC: Sorry about the flurry of questions, but:
Do you think it's too early to be starting a waggon?
How serious do you think I am about the Shotty waggon?
How do you feel about me joining you in voting for Ranmaru?

Cheers
 

VitaminC

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@VitaminC: Sorry about the flurry of questions, but:
Do you think it's too early to be starting a waggon?
How serious do you think I am about the Shotty waggon?
How do you feel about me joining you in voting for Ranmaru?

Cheers
Well, I actually think a wagon could be useful at this point. Yes, I am changing my opinion after like two posts. Oh well lol.
I think you're after information, not a lynch, as I've said.
I don't quite understand the reasoning of this question. I think it might somewhat undermine your wagon on Shotty, though.
 

ranmaru

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It didn't strike me to do so at the time. I figured I could respond to it as it became more prominent, i.e. Shotty actually posts.

The only reason I have for Kary leaning scum is his attempt to start a wagon so early. It seems as though he's already trying to move attention to someone other than him and get the town on his side. Although as I write this post, I realise it's not really any kind of scumtell. But meh. My suspicion remains.
That makes sense.

Ah ok, alright I like you. I thought you might have been sheeping opinion, good stuff. I also dislike Lemon because of him not really commenting on others until asked. He is also giving 'probaly' answers to some of his actions, which isn't very convincing.

What is your opinion on Zen?

@Ran: Well, if I haven't commented on Zen or VitaminC yet it's probably because it seems to me to be too early in the game to be commenting on other people just yet. But since you asked, here we go.

Zen- well, I like him so far. He apparently has a read on you already, hence his vote for you- that or it's some sort of gambit to put you under pressure, which I also like. I think he answered my questions well, and has a pretty similar viewpoint to mine which is JUSTICE!!!
Obviously my view of him may change depending on the reasoning for your vote which he promised.

VitaminC- well, he seems ok to me. Apparently you called him on not putting a random vote out, and he brushed that off ok. We seem to be on the same page about the Shottymaster waggon, and he's given a read of me which I think shows the sort of involvement that I want to get behind.

I haven't asked either of them to join me in voting Shottymaster, but then again I asked you individually as a test to see how you'd react. I don't plan on asking them at this time as they've their own waggon now, much as I'd like to surprise Shotty with five or so votes against him when he logs on.

I've a question for you, Ran- do you think voting for someone 'randomly' at the start of the game is a bad thing?
Why did it seem to early to comment on players to you? Why do you say 'probably'? Shouldn't you know exactly why you did something or not?

I feel your read on zen is a bit forced. I don't have a read on Zen yet, because I haven't seen what he has been trying to do. I don't see any reason to have a town read on him yet, and then you seem to be giving more reasons just to add on to your town read on Zen. I don't like that.

Like I have said, I feel you are trying to force a read on Zen without having enough reason to, and I don't see why you haven't asked Vitamin/Zen to join you on the wagon. This is suspicious to me because it feels you are trying to seem like you are testing me but forgot to test them as well, which you should be looking at everyone, and not just one person. I also don't like you giving 'probably' as an answer to a reason for your actions. You should know why you have done something. It just seems like you are trying to cover up for your actions with 'well maybe it could have gone this way' etc etc.

Vote: Lemon

That doesn't answer my question. Why didn't you ask them to join the wagon?

What exactly prompted you to test me and only me?

---

Yes it can be. Shows that you want to hide the reason for voting a person in RVS. It also hides your intent in choosing that person. If someone was suspicious of you voting that person randomly, you could just say "Sorry, it wasn't me, it was the randomizer". How about you?
 

VitaminC

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I think Zen is pretty good at being town, regardless of whether he actually is. I don't have a read on him yet.
 

ranmaru

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Ah ok thanks. I don't have a read on him yet but we'll see what he is trying to do.

What do you think of Kary asking you to join you on my wagon?
 

ranmaru

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And, tell me your thoughts of him having a read on Zen already.
 

VitaminC

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I really have no idea what his question was aimed at. He doesn't need my permission to vote for you. Nor am I trying to start a wagon at this point.

I don't think much of him having a read already.

What do you think of my vote on you Ran? And Zen's?
 

ranmaru

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I feel your vote on me is weak. You are voting me because I like active towns better than lurky towns. You just state that you don't trust anyone to justify it. I felt that might have been you trying to keep the vote on me. Is this correct?

Zen I don't know because he hasn't given a reason for it. I will give an opinion after he does.
 

ranmaru

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Also, I felt it was odd that he asked to join you on my wagon, yet he hasn't even given a conclusion to his 'test' on me joining the Shotty wagon.

Like the reasoning isn't there yet, so I don't see why he is trying to join you.
 

VitaminC

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You misunderstand my reasoning. I did not say that not trusting anyone was my justification, nor am I voting for you for that reason alone.
 

Axel

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I'm voting you for two reasons:
1. You sat on the fence for both players I questioned you about. You left your options open for each one rather than giving a strait answer.
Lemon seems to be very helpful and is already preaching for activity and wagoning. I like the enthusiasm but I feel it is possible he may be scum trying to seem very helpful because I have no idea where he has learned to start up like that. I have seen him viewing the mafia theory thread, but still I am skeptical. Also I saw him viewing and replying earlier and he signed off after a while without replying. Also, I don't see why he didn't ask me about my question to JD, because a curious townie might want to know why JD self voting may be suspicious
Vitamon I had no idea about but I saw you vote him so I looked at the first page and only saw him asking about SE/IC thing.

I liked his entrance and him questioning my statement. But I would like to see more content from him to see how he plays out. It's possible he could also be trying to put up a wall of fake scumhunting here too. I mean, he sort of ignored the RVS and straight started scumhunting. This seems like he was trying to take advantage of the early stage and get some town cred.
The green highlights that you like them, while the red shows a completely opposite line of thought. You're leaving your options open rather than taking a direct stance.

2. My second reason is that you appeared to really like Lemon at first. But in this post all of the sudden you're seeing his actions as suspicious. It's as if you're trying to back pedal your town read after Vitamin expressed his suspicion for you having it.
Yes, I do agree. But a lurky town besides active scum won't catch them. So I still approve of an entirely active town to be able to do something at least.
I asked you that question because you stated that scum will have a harder time scum hunting. Do you not agree that they will be able to blend in just as well be hunting for the other team?
 

ranmaru

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@Vitamin: That isn't reasoning. The reasoning you gave with your vote, restate it. Here you don't seem like you are trying to figure me out, and are seeming to just keep your 'read' on me.

Now why do you still think I'm scum? What is your opinion of my play as of late?
 

ranmaru

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**** of course I was on the fence of both of them. It's hard to tell with this F&I setup broski. I was trying to speculate on what fire/ice scum would do. My read on both of them was still developing. At that time we were fresh into the game and I didn't have a solid read, ofc. I don't understand why you would expect me to know why you voted Vitamin either. I hadn't even had enough time to get a feel on them. Lemon's actions have become readily apparent to me, so of course I will become suspicious if I see suspicious actions. At the time you asked, he did not seem suspicious to me.

So tell me, why did you vote Vitamin? What is your opinion on Lemon and Vitamin? Serin and Sotty?

Why did you ask me about Ori?

Oh lol about your question. I was talking from a town perspective, not a scum one. I said it would be harder for us to find scum, but it would be easier to see scum after the first day.

I liked Ori's, and Kary's enthusiasm as newbs putting in effort in this game. It didn't mean I had a town read on them.

I have a scum read on Lemon, slight town read on Vitamin. I don't see why he is holding his vote on me and isn't really trying to figure me out.
 

Axel

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Thoughts on this?
I agree with the latter half.
Thoughts on Serin-o and JD?
Why would I have an opinion on them this early? You are getting on Lemon for having a "read" on me yet you have been asking for reads from each of us.
Also, what do you think of the Shotty wagon, and Kary only asking me to join but not you?
Tell me at all what you think someone's opinion could be on the "shotty wagon" at this point. Give me an example. You are asking many questions that no one should even have an answer to at this point. There was no shotty wagon. It was just the two of you voting him in RVS. How is someone supposed to form an opinion from that? As for the Kary question, I don't think anything of it. People ask for specific people to join them all the time, Ranmaru, and you know this.
@Zen, I was re-asking your question, i.e. what alignment people had been in previous games. People had posted saying how many games they'd been in, presumably in answer to you, but not what they'd played as etc.
Someone I know plays mafia on this forum, they also play melee. I got interested in playing mafia from talking to them about it, so here seemed a good a place as any, as i'd rather be able to play with/against them occasionally.
Gotcha. Who is it that you know that plays here?
It didn't strike me to do so at the time. I figured I could respond to it as it became more prominent, i.e. Shotty actually posts.

The only reason I have for Kary leaning scum is his attempt to start a wagon so early. It seems as though he's already trying to move attention to someone other than him and get the town on his side. Although as I write this post, I realise it's not really any kind of scumtell. But meh. My suspicion remains.
I was under the impression that the Shotty wagon was just to pull some activity out of him and create some discussion.

Kary is null leaning scum to me right now.
Very contradicting. Which is it? Was the "wagon" from Kary an attempt to get activity and discussion from Shotty or was it an attempt to move attention to someone and get on town's good side?
 

ranmaru

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@Zen:

I agree with the latter half.
Alrighty. For now I like him. What do you think of his vote on me?

Why would I have an opinion on them this early? You are getting on Lemon for having a "read" on me yet you have been asking for reads from each of us.
You haven't done anything to garner a read. I didn't have a solid read on them either for you to ask me about them.

I asked about Serin and Sotty because I have a read on them, but slight. I was just bouncing ideas. I was thinking about the setup, and felt Serin might have been fire/ice because of his filler statement regarding you. I was thinking of what they might try to do.

Sotty seems like a clueless townie to me and that is why I asked about him.

Tell me at all what you think someone's opinion could be on the "shotty wagon" at this point. Give me an example.
Someone's opinion can be "Oh i agree with it, or not, or it's dumb" etc. Vitamin stated that the wagon was for info, that's an example.

You are asking many questions that no one should even have an answer to at this point. There was no shotty wagon. It was just the two of you voting him in RVS. How is someone supposed to form an opinion from that? As for the Kary question, I don't think anything of it. People ask for specific people to join them all the time, Ranmaru, and you know this.
There was three. Kary, Ori, and me.

Underlined, see I don't like this. I felt he was trying to home in on me and left you out for a suspicious reason. Him stating interest in joining my wagon shows that his 'test' was fake on me, since he didn't even give a conclusion when I asked him about it. This means there may have been a reason to leave you out that I don't know. Upon his flip I will be pushing for you, Zen. Especially since you say "Everyone picks one person specifically all the time" to excuse him for it. Eww.
 

Alacion

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Oh hello.

I think you are all thinking too hard... especially at this point in the stage. JDietz voting for himself shouldn't be taken seriously... there's too many possible motives for it so just ignore it imo. I don't see what's wrong with random voting right now seeing as how nobody has anything on anybody.
 

VitaminC

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I'm holding my vote on you because I still believe you might be scum. I'm not fully convinced, but that's hardly a reason to remove my vote. My reasoning is that you've been putting out fluff, asking questions that either don't have or don't need answers. It seems to me like you're pushing for whatever someone else is pushing for, especially Kary, and that you're trying to stay behind other people but still look good doing it. However, based on what people say about you in other games, you seem to look scummy while being town. (Although I may get called out on saying this, as I think I've heard people argue against looking at a player's other games to determine how they play)

@Axel: I don't see how the two are mutually exclusive. The first quote is the reasoning behind Kary leaning scum. That opinion was entirely different from the second quote, which states what I think of the "wagon" on Shotty. I think the wagon was a way for Kary to get the town against someone, unified under him/her, and he/she accomplished this by trying to put someone under the spotlight. They're related, not conflicting.
 

VitaminC

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Aleate.... what? We stopped talking about that a while ago. And we're on a whole different subject, one that is actually going somewhere.

Vinyl, I await your details. :D
 

Alacion

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Oh oops. <3

Bet Serin's town. He doesn't get his "rush" if he's not scum.
 

ranmaru

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I'm holding my vote on you because I still believe you might be scum. I'm not fully convinced, but that's hardly a reason to remove my vote. My reasoning is that you've been putting out fluff, asking questions that either don't have or don't need answers. It seems to me like you're pushing for whatever someone else is pushing for, especially Kary, and that you're trying to stay behind other people but still look good doing it. However, based on what people say about you in other games, you seem to look scummy while being town. (Although I may get called out on saying this, as I think I've heard people argue against looking at a player's other games to determine how they play)

@Axel: I don't see how the two are mutually exclusive. The first quote is the reasoning behind Kary leaning scum. That opinion was entirely different from the second quote, which states what I think of the "wagon" on Shotty. I think the wagon was a way for Kary to get the town against someone, unified under him/her, and he/she accomplished this by trying to put someone under the spotlight. They're related, not conflicting.
Eww. Why haven't you stated this before? You never stated this in your reasoning. You said that an Active town may have scum, and that I was scum for saying I liked active towns. Your push is very suspicious. You ask me your thoughts on your vote, I tell you, and you tell me that I misunderstood and you don't even explain it again until I ask you. Why did you wait until then to give this 'new' assessment?

Underlined, what is the purpose of you saying this?

I feel you are trying to add more reasons to justify your scum read on me.

Yeah you are scum. Lemon and Zen too. Zen only by association of course.

I still stand by my vote on Lemon.
 

ranmaru

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Oh. I thought you knew? 0.o (You saying he gets his rush as scum infers you have known that he has gotten his rush as scum... somewhere xD)
 

VitaminC

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Why aren't you voting me if I'm scum?

It seems to me that you're saying my vote on you is irrational because I didn't explain it in a way that was satisfactory to you. And once again, I did not say an active player was automatically scum, nor was that my reasoning for you being scum. I questioned your belief that active players should be trusted and gave you my vote to illicit a reaction.
 

ranmaru

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Because i'm voting lemon. Didn't you see I said "My vote on Lemon stands"

I think him, and you are scum individually. Zen by association to Lemon.

See, this is why I think you are scum. I feel you are using the excuse of you trying to test me 'as a reaction'. Why? Because you haven't given a conclusion until AFTER I asked for your reasoning. You are holding onto your scumread on me just to seem townie that has a 'committed mindset'.
 

ranmaru

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I'm scum because I wouldn't tell you what I thought until you asked me?
You are scum for not having a real reason to suspect me at the time of voting me. You are scum for taking so long to come up with new reasons to keep your suspicion on me.
 

VitaminC

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And I find new reasons all the time, honey.

I may not have given you said reason, but I had it. Whether or not it took me more posts from you to flesh out my read does not affect my alignment.
 
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