Newbie 13: Organization XIII Mafia ~Town Wins!~

[SangfroidWarrior]

@Kuzi. Ah, see I completely skipped over 219 because I thought it said SM and was completely confused. I need to go back and re-read when I'm not exhausted, I guess. But, that does quell my suspicions slightly. Thank you. And thank you for posting the list. It helps a bit.

 

[th3kuzinator]

Also, strong town games are won in LYLO not on D1. I always ask tons of questions to others early game to set up a framework of reads that players can look back to later in the game. Lots of discussion is always a pro-town move because it puts information out on the table to be referenced later once we have some concrete information (flips).

Since D1 we literally have no concrete information I'm utilizing my time to create information that makes re-reads fruitful as well as hunting scum.

 

[th3kuzinator]

Still want you to address 276, Moth.

 

[Gova]

1.) Shadow Moth ()
2.) SangfroidWarrior (2) WereKill, SM
3.) Panta (2) gargaglione, BPC
4.) pheonix561 ()
5.) gargaglione ()
6.) Budget Player Cadet_ ()
7.) Werekill (2) Kuz, SangfroidWarrior
8.) Zen ()
9.) th3kuzinator ()
Not voting - panta, phoenix, Zen

With 9 playing, it takes 5 to lynch!

Deadline is July 24th at 11:59 PM EST (GMT-5).

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

@Kuzi. I had not thought of that. It makes complete sense, but it just didn't occur to me.

 

[th3kuzinator]

Its no problem. That's why I'm here.

 

[Panta]

If werekill flipped scum, I would have suspicions of Phoenix, but I wouldn't think that would immediately incriminate him. But, if Phoenix flipped scum, that might incriminate werekill as scum because phoenix would have seen the trouble werekill would have been in and, in order to help him without somehow incriminating himself, said that he was just pressure voting me, hoping werekill would get the hint.

This post of SW's seems like stretching. However, I feel like scum would not try to make such tinfoil-hatted comments and instead try to focus on the (little) evidence they have to make someone appear more scummy and less like a town person.

But, being as they can talk outside of the thread to each other whenever, I'm not so sure.

A possible townslip, or information plant. Do scum get day and night talk? If they only get night talk then this post becomes WIFOM, but given SW's other statements it definitely clears her as town. If scum get day talk too, well, WIFOM as I said. :|

Precisely.

Because of this I'd go as far to say that if one of them flipped mafia it would actually clear the other one, not incriminate them. Scum would not want to blatantly help each other in thread if they can just talk situations through in private.

Does this make sense?

I am clearly missing something at this point. Could someone give me the post numbers where Phoenix and Werekill were buddy-helping each other? Also, if it was missed earlier, do scum get Day and Night talk?

Would you be ready to lynch Werekill right now?
In other words, do you at this moment think he's scum?

Also Kuz's newbie helping is throwing off my read of him.

That would Information Instead of Analysis. I get a town read from Kuz because of his general helpfulness and his explanation of all the questions (long term town help). However, if that his usual plan as both scum and town I suppose it would be null.

Also, where is that post you promised Kuz? On your computer?

@Kuz, I didn't mean to include Garga in that list of town people. >_> I still don't like his play.

However, I looked over a little bit of SW's posts and her habits seem to be normal for town. Suspicion (paranoia I guess), scumhunting, and activity which I consider usual tells for a town. Garga on the other hand hasn't really been too focused on scumhunting, going out of his way to post jokes in light of actual discussion, and isn't as active as SW. Then again, I shouldn't be setting the activity bar on SW as she is the most active player so far, followed by Kuz. ._.

 

[Panta]

Thanks for pointing out the original post, SW. Ya. I didn't realize you posted that "Why shouldn't I think YOU are scum, hmm?" so early in the thread. My apologies.

 

[th3kuzinator]

A possible townslip, or information plant. Do scum get day and night talk? If they only get night talk then this post becomes WIFOM, but given SW's other statements it definitely clears her as town. If scum get day talk too, well, WIFOM as I said. :|

Where did you first get the notion that scum can only daytalk?

 

[th3kuzinator]

I am clearly missing something at this point. Could someone give me the post numbers where Phoenix and Werekill were buddy-helping each other? Also, if it was missed earlier, do scum get Day and Night talk?

Werekill's initial accusation.

Phoenix says he wants to pressure vote Sang independently

Werekill immediately piggybacks.

Scum very rarely sheep to each other in thread because its usually too obvious a connection and, as Sang already said, a very dumb mistake.

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

@Kuzi: Well, that was my initial idea as well because, IRL, it's kind of obvious for mafia to talk to each other during the day, which would be bad.

@Panta: It wasn’t outright buddying, and its probably completely unknown to Phoenix, but it was #244 and #246. And if you’re looking back to what got us initially started on werekill, it’s post #209. It was, as Kuzi said, piggybacking.

 

[th3kuzinator]

The interaction is null wrt to Phoenix. He acted completely independently from Werekill. I doesn't reflect well on Werekill in the slightest because he was so quick to drop his accusations and shrug them off as a pressure vote to avoid further pressure. He was able to take this path with agreeing with what an already established opinion by Phoenix. If Werekill were to flip scum I would say it clears Phoenix.

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

I wouldn't say it would completely clear phoenix, being as it might have just been werekill's mistake and is currently getting chewed out, but I would be fairly confident that he was town as it's highly unlikely. Maybe it's just my paranoia, but I digress.

 

[Panta]

When SW said "seeing as how scum can talk to each other outside of the thread, whenever." Another forum that I visit has limits on when the scum can talk. Normally they limit to scum communications to be night time only.

Also, for the record, how do scum communicate with each other? Is it a quick topic or through moderated pms? Or something else entirely?

Thanks for the post numbers guys. I will go back and read them.

 

[Panta]

I don't get any scummy vibes from Phoenix's vote on SW. However, Werekill's reasoning for a vote on SW (209) is pretty damn shaky in my mind. Personally, I like to reserve my vote and I don't see anything wrong with not placing a vote on someone when someone says so. I could in fact see scum playing that card both ways. Oh, don't want to vote player x? Must be a scum buddy then. Oh, you listen to player x to vote player a? Must be a scum buddy.

 

[th3kuzinator]

When SW said "seeing as how scum can talk to each other outside of the thread, whenever." Another forum that I visit has limits on when the scum can talk. Normally they limit to scum communications to be night time only.

Also, for the record, how do scum communicate with each other? Is it a quick topic or through moderated pms? Or something else entirely?

Thanks for the post numbers guys. I will go back and read them.

From what you've been saying, I'm assuming mafiascum.

Do you know what medium they use to night talk on mafiascum?

 

[th3kuzinator]

Derp, read the post Kuz.

Yes its through a quicktopic.

 

[Panta]

From what you've been saying, I'm assuming mafiascum.

Do you know what medium they use to night talk on mafiascum?

No, but I will now. It was another gaming board. :3

 

[Gargaglione]

Sup guys? I haven't contributed to this game in a while. I can see that people are mainly suspicious on SW and Werekill at the moment. I don't think Werekill has really said enough for me to have a good opinion on him/her, and I'm not really suspicious of SW anymore

 

[th3kuzinator]

Ah, didn't expect.

But yeah scum can day and night talk on this site.

@Panta: Remind me of your main scumpick now and your reasoning for it. Also how much mafia have you played on this other site?

@Garg: Can you read back a bit and answer some of the questions I've posed you?

 

[Gargaglione]

@kuz
Yea sure, can you tell me where the questions are though? :/

 

[th3kuzinator]

I'll getchu this time but try the advanced search function at the top of the screen and just search posts made by me with your name in them.

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

@Kuzi. Assuming mafiascum on who, precisely?

 

[Panta]

Ah, didn't expect.

But yeah scum can day and night talk on this site.

@Panta: Remind me of your main scumpick now and your reasoning for it. Also how much mafia have you played on this other site?

@Garg: Can you read back a bit and answer some of the questions I've posed you?

At the moment, I really don't have a scumpick. I just realized I never addressed your question as to why I have a town read on Zen. He seems active enough and he didn't respond negatively to my pressure vote (if he even saw it).

Also, I got into one game, but... I forgot about it and didn't play for the first day and night so I was modkilled. :3

 

[th3kuzinator]

@Garg: Woops, seems like you answered all the questions I posed you. Must have forgotten, my fault.

Do you have any scum reads at the moment?

 

[Gargaglione]

@kuz
:/ I used advanced search and it just sent me back to this board, but no specific post. I apologize, but do you mind just reasking me the question? Sorry

 

[th3kuzinator]

@Kuzi. Assuming mafiascum on who, precisely?

There is only daytalk on MS. Panta also used the phrase, "Information instead of analysis," which is a pretty known thing on MS. I don't know if thats a universal phrase but its not used too much on this site.

 

[Panta]

There is only daytalk on MS. Panta also used the phrase, "Information instead of analysis," which is a pretty known thing on MS. I don't know if thats a universal phrase but its not used too much on this site.

That's where he got it from. The person who said that on the gaming board said he got it from MS and everyone was like Oh ok. I was dead at that point so I couldn't ask. NOt that they would have answered.

 

[th3kuzinator]

At the moment, I really don't have a scumpick. I just realized I never addressed your question as to why I have a town read on Zen. He seems active enough and he didn't respond negatively to my pressure vote (if he even saw it).

Also, I got into one game, but... I forgot about it and didn't play for the first day and night so I was modkilled. :3

Doesn't seem that active to me but alright.

And I don't think someone of Zen's caliber would have been bothered by your vote regardless of his alignment, no offense haha.

 

[Gargaglione]

@kuz
Oh okay
Ummmm... No, no real strong feelings on anyone at the moment. Panta came off arrogantly, in a way that made him seem scummish, but now that impression of him kind of diminished gradually as he posted more

 

[th3kuzinator]

@kuz
Oh okay
Ummmm... No, no real strong feelings on anyone at the moment. Panta came off arrogantly, in a way that made him seem scummish, but now that impression of him kind of diminished gradually as he posted more

Alright.

Can you give your thoughts on my 266?

 

[Panta]

Doesn't seem that active to me but alright.

And I don't think someone of Zen's caliber would have been bothered by your vote regardless of his alignment, no offense haha.

None taken.


that hurt on the inside.

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

Haha aww poor panta.

 

[Gargaglione]

@kuz
My thoughts on 266? If you're asking if I agree with your opinion on Werekill, I don't exactly know. I looked back and tried to find Werekill's posts and only found 2 things. They DID seem kinda sketchy, since he just blatantly attacked SW and blindly agreed with pheonix, but they're still only 2 posts, he's still too inactive for me to get anything on him. Right now he seems pretty suspicious though

 

[th3kuzinator]

Alright.

Why do you disagree with Werekill's attack on SW (I'm assuming you disagree with it)? In your own words please. Can you also give me your thoughts on Moth?

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Panta's misinterpretation does bother me a little bit but that's far from a clear scumtell, especially for a newbie.

What bothers me more is your post trying to incriminate him.

Perhaps it's not as clear as I first thought. That said, so far it's the best I have to work on beyond the whole Werekill-Phoenix thing, which I honestly just noticed for the first time. >.> My perceptiveness = ****.

@BPC: Can you give me a read on SW?

He's town. He's been posting consistently, with a fair amount of content, and it's hard to get a read on anything less than townie intent or "easy-to-make noob mistake".

Werekill's initial accusation.

Phoenix says he wants to pressure vote Sang independently

Werekill immediately piggybacks.

Scum very rarely sheep to each other in thread because its usually too obvious a connection and, as Sang already said, a very dumb mistake.

I'm not sure if it's just a dumb mistake, a real scum tell... Overall though, I don't like how he didn't let up the pressure vote, and how he didn't imply a pressure vote at all... Waffly. Trying to pull attention away from himself while at the same time retaining the same stance. I don't like that. What's the vote count on Werekill at the moment?

 

[th3kuzinator]

Overall though, I don't like how he didn't let up the pressure vote, and how he didn't imply a pressure vote at all... Waffly. Trying to pull attention away from himself while at the same time retaining the same stance. I don't like that.

Good observation.

Werekill has 2 votes on him atm aka L-3. Still room on the wagon.

Oh and can you give me an updated read on Panta?

 

[Gargaglione]

@kuz I don't necessarily disagree with it, i'm still kinda neutral on it and I'm gonna have to go back and read Shadow Moth later

 

[Lore]

Sorry for not being active, guys! A game just finished up, and I got caught in the middle of the "ask questions of everybody and laugh at how wrong everyone was" phase after the game. Life also happened, so yeah.

Also something else happened related to that game that I had to clear up, but whatever. I'm not gonna go into it.

Which vote are you referring to?

My vote. Sorry for not making that clear.

What exactly did you get out of it? How did that effect your read on her?

I wanted to see just how defensive she got, and I saw it. I also wanted to see her actual reasoning for the vote, and since I figured that a vote might push it out of her more quickly, I also wanted to see how her reasoning held up when she wasn't giving it as simply reasons but as defence, and I got what I wanted.

I'm going more for a null read now, but I'll keep the vote there until I see someone worse. She's not even close to a lynch, I believe, so one vote won't hurt for now.

Her vote on Garg wasn't solely based on the fact that he was posting fluff. Even if it was, her original suspicion came from a point in the game where literally no one was talking except Garg, SW and myself. I asked her to give reasoning for her Garg suspicion at that early stage and its a stretch to say that she could have justified her vote on him for any other reason than the one she gave.

Yeah yeah, I just thought that it was a bit of a stretch to vote for someone over jokes, but I see where she's coming from now, I guess. I still think she was over analyzing a bit if she wasn't just panicking and trying to find a reason (which I don't think she did).

Dislike. The only instance that has caught your eye thus far is SW's vote on garg? Gimme your read on Phoenix and Panta.

Sorry, sorry. Life and another game, as stated earlier in this post, caught up with me. I'll get back to you on this question when I read up more.

First of all he voted you for some pretty dumb reasoning, which I explained in my 223. However, what bothers me more is what you brought up in the above quote. Instead of defending his position against the points I did bring up, he immediately piggybacked on Phoenix saying that he was pressure voting and tried to get out of being held responsible for those accusations. He was more in favor of saying "my vote was only for pressure and I got what I needed out of it" instead of taking my 223 and saying "this is why your reasoning is wrong/I realize why I'm wrong now after your response." In fact, he didn't even mention my post or my vote on him at all, he just chose to shrug off the push once he realized it wasn't going to go anywhere (with me not supporting it).

Because he wasn't prepared to defend his position, the initial push from him seems very disingenuous. Remember when I said that town have to scumhunt but scum only have to give the illusion that they are scumhunting? Well that looks like textbook fake scumhunting.

Wait wait wait, did you make points against me inbetween my posts? I honestly missed it, if you did; I apologize.

I'm not sure if it's just a dumb mistake, a real scum tell... Overall though, I don't like how he didn't let up the pressure vote, and how he didn't imply a pressure vote at all... Waffly. Trying to pull attention away from himself while at the same time retaining the same stance. I don't like that. What's the vote count on Werekill at the moment?

Eh? I was trying to pull attention away from myself? I thought that the whole point of that post was to drag attention away from the SW discussion, not from me. But whatever.

And I didn't take the vote away because:

However, as phoenix has said here, basing a vote on the fact that someone makes a bunch of silly jokes on is a bit shaky. By that logic, my Scamp vote should make me scummy as well, so my vote is staying until I find someone scummier than her.

Not that she's that scummy; there's just no one else that I can really think of.

Note that last line there.

 

[th3kuzinator]

@Zen: Thoughts on Werekill and his above response?