Newbie 13: Organization XIII Mafia ~Town Wins!~

[Panta]

Unvote pending further investigation. Werekill is certainly my top suspect, but I don't think we're quite ready for a lynch. Just wanna make sure my read on him is accurate. And yes, I agree; Vanilla Townie is possibly the least meaningful claim possible, but I'm not willing to rush into a lynch this early. I'll reassess and be back hopefully before too long.

And who are you agreeing with? Kuz for saying that VT doesn't change his opinion about Werekill, or Werekill saying that VT doesn't give much?

From the looks of your response, neither, as no one said VT is the least meaningful.

Also, I don't get why you are all surprised that Werekill would claim Vanilla Townie. If he is mafia, he definitely isn't going to claim being a mafia member and if he is town, he is statistically more likely to be a VT.

Also, nice of you to keep your options open by voting for the biggest wagon and then basically attaching me to your next vote if Werekill's lynch doesn't pan out.

Unvote
Vote: Budget Player Cadet

 

[Gova]

1.) Shadow Moth ()
2.) SangfroidWarrior (1) SM
3.) Panta ()
4.) pheonix561 ()
5.) gargaglione ()
6.) Budget Player Cadet_ (1) Panta
7.) Werekill (3) Kuz, SangfroidWarrior, Gargaglione
8.) Zen ()
9.) th3kuzinator ()
Not voting - phoenix, BPC, Zen

With 9 playing, it takes 5 to lynch!

Deadline is July 24th at 11:59 PM EST (GMT-5).

 

[Lore]

The problem that I still have with you is that you're providing no alternative to Sang's lynch. You've been too busy defending yourself from attacks that you've lost all sight of where you actually want to go.

How have I been defending myself? I honestly thought that I had been going after SW the whole time, which is where I wanted to go, but whatever.

You've argued with Sang to the point where I feel there is enough information in the exchange for any further discussion to just be a re-hash of what has already been said.

Agreed, and I've already stated as much.

In your next post I want to se 10% why we shouldn't lynch you and 90% who we should and why.

Alrighty.

Honestly? The only person who I feel comfortable calling scummy in any way (besides SW) is Garg for the random votes and crap earlier in the game. He also seemed to be posting a lot of fluff, which may have been an attempt to look active. I don't feel sure enough to vote on him since we really haven't seen too much, but a lynch could help get some info if we can't think of someone else.

Everyone else has essentially been inactive to the point that I don't have to clear of a read. I honestly can't think of anyone who has tipped my null read of them to slightly scum other than SW and Garg.

I still think that a SW lynch could get us some info, but I'd rather wait and see what she does as the game goes on before I really start thinking she's scum.

Fake Edit: Panta has brought to my attention the fact that BPC completely backed out of the wagon against me. He may have been just making sure that I don't get ninja-lynched, but I don't know.

I also don't like how Panta just comes out of nowhere and votes for BPC. Nothing else had really been point towards BPC being scum, yet Panta seems to really not like the guy.

This seems decently suspicious, especially when he gave pretty BS reasons for his vote. He basically misread BPC's entire post; BPC was agreeing that a VT claim is essentially meaningless (which is what we were saying, albeit with different wording), and he never said that he was surprised that I claimed VT.

Panta's only other reason was that BPC tacked him onto his potential-vote list. Panta's vote in general makes me feel like he was doing an OMGUS and was really, really reaching for reasons, or he just voted out of nowhere and made it look like it was based on the post. Either way, I don't like it.

Vote: Panta

 

[th3kuzinator]

Panta, why are you completly strawmanning what Cadet said? I really don't like that attack and nothing you've brought up in that post incriminates Cadet in the slightest, reaching or not. He has always expressed his dislike of your slot so saying you're his second pick isn't anything you make it out to be. His joining the most popular wagon, though true, makes perfect sense with the way Werekill has been playing.

@Panta: Remind me of your read on Werekill.

 

[Lore]

Panta, why are you completly strawmanning what Cadet said? I really don't like that attack and nothing you've brought up in that post incriminates Cadet in the slightest, reaching or not. He has always expressed his dislike of your slot so saying you're his second pick isn't anything you make it out to be. His joining the most popular wagon, though true, makes perfect sense with the way Werekill has been playing.

I'm glad to know that I'm not crazy in thinking that his vote was iffy.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

And who are you agreeing with? Kuz for saying that VT doesn't change his opinion about Werekill, or Werekill saying that VT doesn't give much?

...They're both saying more or less the same things I am. I am saying that claiming VT does not give much information at all (if he claimed, say, doc or cop, someone else could counter-claim, or at least put him to the task of proving that he has the job he does... but vanilla townie is very easy to fake), and that because of that, my opinion on him does not change.

From the looks of your response, neither, as no one said VT is the least meaningful.

...It's kind of implied.

Also, I don't get why you are all surprised that Werekill would claim Vanilla Townie. If he is mafia, he definitely isn't going to claim being a mafia member and if he is town, he is statistically more likely to be a VT.

We're not surprised, it's just a reaffirmation.

Also, nice of you to keep your options open by voting for the biggest wagon and then basically attaching me to your next vote if Werekill's lynch doesn't pan out.

Unvote
Vote: Budget Player Cadet

Uh... What?

First off, sometimes "the biggest wagon" is the right move. While it's very easy to say "oh, he's just jumping on the wagon", sometimes there's good reason for it. And IIRC, I actually provided my own justification for voting Werekill to add to the pile back in 316. Also, let it be known: you suck.

Honestly? The only person who I feel comfortable calling scummy in any way (besides SW) is Garg for the random votes and crap earlier in the game. He also seemed to be posting a lot of fluff, which may have been an attempt to look active. I don't feel sure enough to vote on him since we really haven't seen too much, but a lynch could help get some info if we can't think of someone else.

Oh, I agree. It's just that the person acting the most scummy is not Garg, but you. And seeing as you've claimed VT, we know we're not about to kick a power role.

Fake Edit: Panta has brought to my attention the fact that BPC completely backed out of the wagon against me. He may have been just making sure that I don't get ninja-lynched, but I don't know.

Yeah, I'm not declaring you innocent, I'm just moving you out from under the guillotine pending further investigation.

So... rereading all of Werekill's posts (I do this a lot, at least he doesn't have like 200 like SW >.> seriously post less, it's making my life harder )...

So up until 209, Werekill doesn't post anything really worth looking into; mostly off-topic stuff. Then there's the whole 209 debacle, where he jumps on a very easy-to-make noob mistake. Don't get me wrong, it's still a mistake, and it shouldn't be ignored completely because SW is a noob, but it's a little flimsy to base a vote off of... But then we get 246, where he says it was a pressure vote (basically buddying up with Phoenix in the process, who also is not posting as much as would be nice). And then 319 rolls around... 319 is horrible. "Yeah, I get a null read but I'll vote for her anyways" "I can't find anyone more scummy than a null read".

Part of the problem here is that Werekill is simply pushing so hard at one person, it seems almost as though he's obsessed with it. Beats me. Anyways...

Vote: Werekill. I think we have our day one lynch.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

(Also, Panta is looking pretty bad at the moment. Just thought I'd mention that I'm not overlooking that)

 

[th3kuzinator]

:|

You put him st L-1, then you remove your vote saying you don't want to end the day so early and need to re-evaluate things and then you revote Werekill like 4 hours later with much of the same reasoning as you boarded for in the first place.

Did you reread in the meantime?

 

[Lore]

And then 319 rolls around... 319 is horrible. "Yeah, I get a null read but I'll vote for her anyways" "I can't find anyone more scummy than a null read".

Part of the problem here is that Werekill is simply pushing so hard at one person, it seems almost as though he's obsessed with it. Beats me. Anyways...

Vote: Werekill. I think we have our day one lynch.

Is it so bad for me to just not Unvote? I don't see why it's so deathly important to Unvote when I clearly said that I still saw her scummy in some ways. Did you read part of one of those sentences at all? " *stuff,* but I'll keep the vote there until I see someone worse. She's not even close to a lynch, I believe, so one vote won't hurt for now." I don't see the big deal here, really.

And how am I pushing too hard? I wanted a resolution to the argument, and I got it. When not too many people are being active and the game has barely started, I don't see a problem with pushing against one person until you get a resolution.

 

[Panta]

Wow.

I'll be giving a justification/reads list after I eat lunch, but this looks bad for me. Might as well rename my role to failure townie.

 

[Lore]

At least you're not at L-1.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

:|

You put him st L-1, then you remove your vote saying you don't want to end the day so early and need to re-evaluate things and then you revote Werekill like 4 hours later with much of the same reasoning as you boarded for in the first place.

Did you reread in the meantime?

Yeah, the reread was kinda the entire point. I just wanted to make sure I had the right guy. As said, I wasn't saying he was innocent, I was simply taking him out of the chair to make sure we got the right guy before we throw the switch.

 

[th3kuzinator]

I was on a phone the entire time and couldn't see if you were viewing.

I'm actually asking the question, did you re-read in the time inbetween your unvote and your revote?

If so, did you pick up anything else of value besides affirming your read on Werekill?

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

I reread the entirety of Werekill's posts. Not all few hundred posts in the thread. >.> I have a lot of free time but I'm not about to do that every few hours.

 

[th3kuzinator]

Are you in favor of ending the Day now?

 

[Lore]

So the fact that I gave up on SW for now didn't change your mind at all? The idea that I was obsessed with pushing against her was one of your main points.

Also, can you reply to my previous post?

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Also, for those who wonder.... I browse with a lot of **** open. 8-10 tabs, usually. If I'm always online and in this thread, it doesn't mean I'm actually reading the thread. It could mean that, or it could also mean that I'm over on Smashmods working on Bowser minus. Just FYI.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Is it so bad for me to just not Unvote? I don't see why it's so deathly important to Unvote when I clearly said that I still saw her scummy in some ways. Did you read part of one of those sentences at all? " *stuff,* but I'll keep the vote there until I see someone worse. She's not even close to a lynch, I believe, so one vote won't hurt for now." I don't see the big deal here, really.

And how am I pushing too hard? I wanted a resolution to the argument, and I got it. When not too many people are being active and the game has barely started, I don't see a problem with pushing against one person until you get a resolution.

Fair enough. I'm still suspicious, but due in part to this and to something else I spotted, you're off my #1 spot.

Are you in favor of ending the Day now?

The more I think about it...

****.

Basically, right now, we have two people who have been acting scummy in the thread (Werekill, Panta), a few people who have been active and between neutral and town (you, me, SW), and a whole bunch of folk who have been way to inactive for their own good. Up until just a second ago I wasn't quite sure.

...And then I saw this gem of a post.

Wow.

I'll be giving a justification/reads list after I eat lunch, but this looks bad for me. Might as well rename my role to failure townie.

Okay, this is kind of a big deal. If there's one lesson I took away from getting lynched day 1 by Kpaca on my forum quite often, it's that a dig for sympathy, or a "I'm giving up" mindset is an incredibly anti-town stance to hold.

Unvote, Vote Panta.

At the moment, we have two suspects, one who just fell far further into my headlights than the others. And then there's a fairly reasonable number of people not posting... Where you guys at?

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Neither ShadowMoth nor Zen has posted anything of remote value. Guys, please remedy this. Thoughts on the situation?

 

[th3kuzinator]

Indeed I definitely want to see more from Zen and Smoth before we end toDay. Phoenix too.

As for where I'm going I think a re-read is in order by the end of the Day, but Im currently still leaning Werekill tbh.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Okay, this is kind of a big deal. If there's one lesson I took away from getting lynched day 1 by Kpaca on my forum quite often, it's that a dig for sympathy, or a "I'm giving up" mindset is an incredibly anti-town stance to hold.

Unvote, Vote Panta.

At the moment, we have two suspects, one who just fell far further into my headlights than the others. And then there's a fairly reasonable number of people not posting... Where you guys at?

Note: I will gladly wait on his justification. But being emo about it helps nobody.

 

[Lore]

Yeah. With his earlier vote, Panta kinda rushed himself into my #1 pick spot, and that post, in some ways, makes it worse. However, I don't think that post, by itself, is too scummy; I actually did the same thing in a game at the end of the day (said "Well, I guess I get to look forward to a lynch toMorrow... ", basically), and I was the freaking cop.

Still, the rest of his crap is plenty of scum material for me.

By the way, whenever I mention a previous game, I mean the only game that I've played in: a BRoom game that recently ended.

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

So... rereading all of Werekill's posts (I do this a lot, at least he doesn't have like 200 like SW >.> seriously post less, it's making my life harder )...

Haha I can't really apologize for it but I will try to lessen the amount.

@Werekill. I'm still waiting for you to reply to my other post. Even with all of this happening, I will not be satisfied until you answer the second half of that post.

 

[Panta]

FUCCCKM

I'm so god damn pissed right now. I just accidentally erased my whole ****ing reads.

GOD DAMN IT.

 

[Panta]

Last 45 minutes ****ing wasted.

God ****ing damn it.

... you guys will have my reads tonight. I promise.

 

[Lore]

Haha I can't really apologize for it but I will try to lessen the amount.

@Werekill. I'm still waiting for you to reply to my other post. Even with all of this happening, I will not be satisfied until you answer the second half of that post.

Haha, I'll do it, don't worry.

@Panta: While reads are nice, responses are better.

 

[Panta]

Haha, I'll do it, don't worry.

@Panta: While reads are nice, responses are better.

It wasn't going to be

sw: town
kuz: town
etc

I was going to bring up post numbers and stuff. Or am I misunderstanding you like every other person in this thread?

 

[Lore]

Yeah, you were misunderstanding me. I meant responses to the fact that you've racked up votes and such.

 

[Panta]

Yeah, you were misunderstanding me. I meant responses to the fact that you've racked up votes and such.

Like the argument that I strawmanned? I don't even know what that means, but I had other reasons for voting Cadet which were just erased liked 10 minutes ago. **** MY LIFE.

I'm not too worried about it at the moment.

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

Last 45 minutes ****ing wasted.

God ****ing damn it.

... you guys will have my reads tonight. I promise.

Have fun with that Panta. I was making a post in my log (I started one because all of my posts became jumbled and confusing early on so it just helps me get perspective on what's happening) and I had like 2,000 words and I accidently closed out before I saved it. So, I kind of know the boat you are in.

 

[Lore]

Strawmanning means summarizing someone's argument in a way that makes it look worse than it is and then attacking it.

And why didn't you post those reasons at first? There was no reason not to.

On another note... How do we really know that you were working on anything at all? All we have is your word, and you could easily be lying in order to try to make your terrible vote look better. In other words, by presenting this fake idea, you hoped to buy time by making your argument look better by saying, "Guys I have reasons! ... But they all got erased."

Not that I don't believe you, but the possibility is there.

 

[Lore]

A better question is why you are not worried. Two players have moved you to the top of their scumpicks, and you simply don't care? I don't like it one bit.

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

He does care, he just doesn't feel like putting up a fight. Throwing in the towel before the game is even over is definitely not something you should do.

And, really? I'm not attacking you here, I'm just wonderring where you came up with the idea that he might just be saying that to buy time. I understand you were just saying, but the same could be said for every other person that has had their material erased or hasn't been able to post things because of a busy life.

 

[Lore]

I only consider it a remote possibility, and that's only because he's in the spotlight now. He could be feeling pressure or something, so he came up with that idea.

Once again, I'm just saying a small possibility. It likely isn't true.

 

[Panta]

Strawmanning means summarizing someone's argument in a way that makes it look worse than it is and then attacking it.

And why didn't you post those reasons at first? There was no reason not to.

On another note... How do we really know that you were working on anything at all? All we have is your word, and you could easily be lying in order to try to make your terrible vote look better. In other words, by presenting this fake idea, you hoped to buy time by making your argument look better by saying, "Guys I have reasons! ... But they all got erased."

Not that I don't believe you, but the possibility is there.

I believe that is WIFOM.

Planting the seed of doubt into everyone's minds, Werekill?

What reason would I have to lie about that? I've already put pressure and drawn attention to myself to post those reads after I accidentally refreshed.

I am sick and tired of people trying to incriminate me for my idiocy.

for reference, might be a Werekill/BPC scumteam.

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

Yeah I get you. I don't agree with you, but I understand where you were coming from. Again, I was just wonderring where that came from because I never would have thought of that line of thinking.

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

EBOP: @Werekill.

Sorry for not making it clear I was speaking to him in case there was a mix-up

 

[th3kuzinator]

@Panta: Even if you have to make it again, I'd prefer that I see that post that you lost. I know that losing big posts can be a pain but seeing it will probably better help sort my thoughts.

 

[th3kuzinator]

@Zen: Give me your read on Moth and Phoenix.

 

[Panta]

@Panta: Even if you have to make it again, I'd prefer that I see that post that you lost. I know that losing big posts can be a pain but seeing it will probably better help sort my thoughts.

I don't remember all of it though. I am trying to remember. It wasn't that big, but it was just annoying with quoting everyone and adding my comments. I've used post numbers now to avoid that, but I am remaking it to the best of my ability.

And I don't think it was like 2,000 words like SW's was. O_O