Newbie 13: Organization XIII Mafia ~Town Wins!~

[Shadow Moth]

Welp I definitely typed up a post and forgot to post it last night. Sorry kuz. Hopefully it's still on my comp when I get home.

More to come on other thoughts when I get home.

 

[Gova]

1.) Shadow Moth ()
2.) SangfroidWarrior (1) WereKill
3.) Panta (2) gargaglione, BPC
4.) pheonix561 ()
5.) gargaglione (1) SangfroidWarrior
6.) Budget Player Cadet_ ()
7.) Werekill (1) Kuz
8.) Zen (1) Panta
9.) th3kuzinator (1) Shadow Moth
Not voting - phoenix, Zen

With 9 playing, it takes 5 to lynch!

Deadline is July 24th at 11:59 PM EST (GMT-5).

 

[th3kuzinator]

He was essentially taking Sang's reciprocation of the question to you as shoving all the scum-hunting work off on you, a clearly scummy tell.

Panta's misinterpretation does bother me a little bit but that's far from a clear scumtell, especially for a newbie.

What bothers me more is your post trying to incriminate him.

I honestly don't see where Panta is getting that read, and seeing as he hasn't posted since, I'm calling scum on that.

What does activity have anything to do with the point you're trying to make?

@BPC: Can you give me a read on SW?

 

[pheonix561]

It's an established method on this website to lynch Also the italics is my IC voice, a voice that has nothing to do with my alignment and is strictly for instructional purposes. Players themselves don't have to use italics because everything they say should be from one standpoint, that of towns. I know you may think you know a lot about mafia as a game from whatever past experience you have, but you will be forced to re-learn the game as how we play it on this site. I appreciate that you're trying to give help and advice but I don't think you know enough about how mafia is played on this site to be a very good teacher yet.

Oh, I wasn't trying to teach. I only used italics because I wanted to say why I wanted to lynch someone today and why I wasn't voting for anyone yet, without sounding wolfy to the players who had never played a game at all. I'm also aware that a day one scum lynch can occur, it just doesn't happen often or easily.

Okay, first of all, it was definitley not an OMGUS You wouldn't go into court and have somebody arrested without proper proof, would you?

In response to the whole of this post, I want to pressurevote Sangfroid Warrior. From the way you're playing, you seem awfully defensive of your claim that voting for someone who makes jokes often is a good vote choice.

 

[th3kuzinator]

If that was an actual vote, remember to format it correctly.

 

[Lore]

In response to the whole of this post, I want to pressurevote Sangfroid Warrior. From the way you're playing, you seem awfully defensive of your claim that voting for someone who makes jokes often is a good vote choice.

Same here.

Honestly, I was just pressuring a bit, even though the reasoning for the vote was shaky. I wanted to see how she reacted, and her reaction overall (besides kne bit) makes me a bit more sure of her. I got what I wanted, and I'm mostly happy now.

However, as phoenix has said here, basing a vote on the fact that someone makes a bunch of silly jokes on is a bit shaky. By that logic, my Scamp vote should make me scummy as well, so my vote is staying until I find someone scummier than her.

Not that she's that scummy; there's just no one else that I can really think of.

 

[th3kuzinator]

@Pheonix: Do you agree with me on Werekill? Did your view of voting/D1 change from reading my post? What is your read on Panta?

Be sure to answer this.

@Werekill:

Honestly, I was just pressuring a bit, even though the reasoning for the vote was shaky.

Which vote are you referring to?

I wanted to see how she reacted, and her reaction overall (besides kne bit) makes me a bit more sure of her. I got what I wanted, and I'm mostly happy now.

What exactly did you get out of it? How did that effect your read on her?

However, as phoenix has said here, basing a vote on the fact that someone makes a bunch of silly jokes on is a bit shaky. By that logic, my Scamp vote should make me scummy as well, so my vote is staying until I find someone scummier than her.

Her vote on Garg wasn't solely based on the fact that he was posting fluff. Even if it was, her original suspicion came from a point in the game where literally no one was talking except Garg, SW and myself. I asked her to give reasoning for her Garg suspicion at that early stage and its a stretch to say that she could have justified her vote on him for any other reason than the one she gave.

Not that she's that scummy; there's just no one else that I can really think of.

Dislike. The only instance that has caught your eye thus far is SW's vote on garg? Gimme your read on Phoenix and Panta.

 

[th3kuzinator]

@Zen: Thoughts, if any, on BCP forgetting that X1 wasn't in this game? Can you give me a read on Panta?

Also, tell me what you think of this post.

Out of italics and on the topic of the game itself we're in, I would feel more comfortable waiting for everyone in the game to start talking and have made a post before I start voting for anyone. I'm here, though.

 

[Panta]

Unvote: Zen

Forgot I had my random vote on him. I really don't know where to put my vote now since I feel that Kuz, SW, Zen, and Garga are all town.

Also, how was my post a misinterpretation? I can't find SW's original now.

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

In response to the whole of this post, I want to pressurevote Sangfroid Warrior. From the way you're playing, you seem awfully defensive of your claim that voting for someone who makes jokes often is a good vote choice.

I thought I had explained that I wasn't simply voting for him just because of his jokes. In fact, they had very little to do with anything at all. I don't feel like explaining, again, that he seemed to not know what to do and wanted to just make jokes so people looked over him. The jokes themselves had nothing to do with it, and I wouldn't vote for someone just because of a joke he/she has made. I would vote them if something they happened to say or do seemed particularly scummy to me. For garg, it was absence of anything concrete or anything that furthered the town's cause that made me feel he might be mafia.

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

@Panta. I think the original you're looking for is #127

 

[th3kuzinator]

Unvote: Zen

Forgot I had my random vote on him. I really don't know where to put my vote now since I feel that Kuz, SW, Zen, and Garga are all town.

Also, how was my post a misinterpretation? I can't find SW's original now.

Because SW's response saying "what makes me sure you aren't scum, kuz" isn't throwing the load on me without doing any scumhunting. It's just SW being paranoid, haha.

@Panta: Didn't you just say that Garga and SW were looking suspicious? What made you change your mind? What is your reasoning for townZen?

@SW, Zen: Out of Werekill, BPC, Panta and Phoenix, who're you most suspicious of and why?

@Moth: After you catchup be sure to address the questions I asked you.

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

@Kuzi. Honestly, werekill. He put suspicion on me for something that had already been cleared. Also, after you voted for him, in order to make it seem like he was just pressuring me and in order to save himself, he immediately agreed with phoenix in that they both just happened to be pressure-voting me. He could have just not been online and not been able to respond so he put that since phoenix had posted before him, but it just seems way too scummy to me. It would have been harder to figure a way out of the little jam of you placing blame on him without phoenix's help, unbeknownst to phoenix or not.

But, a bit of the same could be said for phoenix. He brought up issues with me that, to me, had been cleared up earlier. At the moment, though, he doesn't seem as suspicious as werekill.

@Werekill. This is not an OMGUS vote. Just clearing that up before you have the chance to claim that on me, again.

 

[th3kuzinator]

Thank you.

Let's say for a moment that Werekill were to flip scum, hypothetically of course. With that in mind would you feel that incriminates Pheonix as well? Is the vice-versa of this true?

 

[th3kuzinator]

And by vice versa I mean if Phoenix were to flip scum, would that incriminate Werekill.

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

If werekill flipped scum, I would have suspicions of Phoenix, but I wouldn't think that would immediately incriminate him. But, if Phoenix flipped scum, that might incriminate werekill as scum because phoenix would have seen the trouble werekill would have been in and, in order to help him without somehow incriminating himself, said that he was just pressure voting me, hoping werekill would get the hint.

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

But, being as they can talk outside of the thread to each other whenever, I'm not so sure.

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

Like, it would have been an obvious and overly rookie mistake for both of them to make, especailly if phoenix flipped mafia.

 

[th3kuzinator]

Like, it would have been an obvious and overly rookie mistake for both of them to make, especailly if phoenix flipped mafia.

Precisely.

Because of this I'd go as far to say that if one of them flipped mafia it would actually clear the other one, not incriminate them. Scum would not want to blatantly help each other in thread if they can just talk situations through in private.

Does this make sense?

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

Yup. I kind of had to talk it through with myself first. Hence the triple post.

 

[th3kuzinator]

Cool we're making progress!

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

Haha yeah, for once.

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

So, Kuzi, let's put the question back on you because I want some input. Out of Werekill, Cadet, Panta and Phoenix, who're you most suspicious of, and why?

 

[th3kuzinator]

Reflecting back on your own Werekill suspicions, do you still think Garg is more suspicious than him considering thats where your vote still lies?

If so, could you explain why? If not, you should join me on Werekill.

 

[Shadow Moth]

Okay read everything. Gonna remember to actually post this time.

SW seems a little over defensive. A little too cautious. Like she's trying to force the idea that what she's doing is very blatantly town. I also don't like her sudden change of pace with #201. Seems weird how suddenly decent pressure and a vote after like two pages of being told to vote and then not too much follow up.
Null leaning scum at this point.

Panta I have no idea tbh. He hasn't posted much. The way he listed himself as town doesn't sit well with me in his first real post (I think it was his first), but I'm willing to dismiss that as fluff/newbie move.

Turns out I'm bad at reading looking at more than two people since I totally missed what the hate on Werekill is about. BRB reading looking at that.

For now Vote: SW

Also if people would refer to me as Moth that would be cool. Seeing SW and SM together is throwing me off.

 

[th3kuzinator]

So, Kuzi, let's put the question back on you because I want some input. Out of Werekill, Cadet, Panta and Phoenix, who're you most suspicious of, and why?

Well me vote is on Werekill so that answers that question.

My reasoning for that is in the exact same post I voted him in (223) and some similar reasoning that you posed in your 253. Specifically, this:

Also, after you voted for him, in order to make it seem like he was just pressuring me and in order to save himself, he immediately agreed with phoenix in that they both just happened to be pressure-voting me.

First of all he voted you for some pretty dumb reasoning, which I explained in my 223. However, what bothers me more is what you brought up in the above quote. Instead of defending his position against the points I did bring up, he immediately piggybacked on Phoenix saying that he was pressure voting and tried to get out of being held responsible for those accusations. He was more in favor of saying "my vote was only for pressure and I got what I needed out of it" instead of taking my 223 and saying "this is why your reasoning is wrong/I realize why I'm wrong now after your response." In fact, he didn't even mention my post or my vote on him at all, he just chose to shrug off the push once he realized it wasn't going to go anywhere (with me not supporting it).

Because he wasn't prepared to defend his position, the initial push from him seems very disingenuous. Remember when I said that town have to scumhunt but scum only have to give the illusion that they are scumhunting? Well that looks like textbook fake scumhunting.

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

Honestly, I had forgotten my vote still lies with Garg. I'm still suspicious of him but not as much as werekill.

Unvote: Gargaglione

So, yeah, let's put some pressure on werekill to defend himself, because, at the moment, he's the most suspicious to me, even with only a few posts.

Vote: Werekill

 

[Shadow Moth]

After a reread still not seeing the Werekill hate.
BPC is looking a little weird to me though. I don't like #240 at all. Wouldn't call it a scum tell though. Rather his confidence makes me think he's town. Hard to tell but I'd put him as town right now.

What I want while I read up a bit more is why I should be voting werekill from both SW and Kuz.

Kuz as the IC I expect you to answer second of course.

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

@Moth. Well, prior to #201, I hadn't wanted to vote. And, that vote itself wasn't entirely because of pressure from others to vote. Actually, if I remember correctly, Kuzi seemed to be the only one asking me to vote. That "sudden change of pace" was me finally talking myself into the fact that a vote can be changed and talking myself into the fact that garg was being legitimately suspicious. I wasn't voting because I was finally folding under pressure or hoping people would think I was more town because of it. And there was follow-up. But, being as it's a D1 vote and there were only a few posts to go by, I think that I had some pretty good reasons for voting Garg. Hence, why I voted him.

As for the werekill thing, he seemed to buddy on to any excuse to get himself out of the line of fire after he pointed at me for some silly reason, which had been earlier cleared up.

 

[Shadow Moth]

Would you be ready to lynch Werekill right now?
In other words, do you at this moment think he's scum?

Also Kuz's newbie helping is throwing off my read of him.

 

[th3kuzinator]

BPC is looking a little weird to me though. I don't like #240 at all. Wouldn't call it a scum tell though. Rather his confidence makes me think he's town. Hard to tell but I'd put him as town right now.

What? Did you just have a change of heart within same paragraph?

What I want while I read up a bit more is why I should be voting werekill from both SW and Kuz.

Kuz as the IC I expect you to answer second of course.

How could you possibly have missed my 266?

 

[th3kuzinator]

Also Kuz's newbie helping is throwing off my read of him.

Is my newbie helping getting in the way of or becoming my only source of content?

If not, then you have no reason to complain.

I'm being nice this game, treasure it while it lasts and don't give me any reason to need to bring out a can of whoopass.

 

[Shadow Moth]

What? Did you just have a change of heart within same paragraph?

Yeah I did. Is that a problem?

How could you possibly have missed my 266?

The one that refers me to 223? Your 223 gave me your opinion of that post but I didn't get anything about your thoughts on Werekill from it. The vote seemed very defensive of SW in fact, just like a lot of your recent posts.

Like I said, your newbie helping is throwing me off.
It's getting in the way of your content and MY reads. Right now I have you as town but it's honestly hard to say.

Also I don't like the whole "You did well with what you had" thing.
If you don't have enough to make a good case then why would you bother making a case at all? You can't turn lead into gold.

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

(this is a continuation of my earlier post. I'll reply to all others in a minute.)

Regardless, I feel like I'm letting Kuzi sink his claws into me. I’ve been a little suspicious of him since the beginning, enough to keep me from believing he’s town. But he seems like he’s genuinely trying to scumhunt. On the other hand, he seems like he’s been getting other people’s reads on things and rarely been giving his own. And, despite his suspicion of me earlier, he wants me to buddy with him on the werekill vote. I’m all for voting werekill atm, but it’s like he knows I slightly trust him (with about as much trust as can be given in a mafia). I don’t know why, being as I haven’t even said I completely think he’s town yet.

So, I guess, Kuzi, give me your read on anyone you think might be scum in this game and why. Or even anyone in this game you think is town. I just want your own complete opinions and suspicions.

 

[Shadow Moth]

(this is a continuation of my earlier post. I'll reply to all others in a minute.)

Regardless, I feel like I'm letting Kuzi sink his claws into me. I’ve been a little suspicious of him since the beginning, enough to keep me from believing he’s town. But he seems like he’s genuinely trying to scumhunt. On the other hand, he seems like he’s been getting other people’s reads on things and rarely been giving his own. And, despite his suspicion of me earlier, he wants me to buddy with him on the werekill vote. I’m all for voting werekill atm, but it’s like he knows I slightly trust him (with about as much trust as can be given in a mafia). I don’t know why, being as I haven’t even said I completely think he’s town yet.

So, I guess, Kuzi, give me your read on anyone you think might be scum in this game and why. Or even anyone in this game you think is town. I just want your own complete opinions and suspicions.

I disagree with your points on kuz for the most part. He's been very generous with his reads and has made it very clear he doesn't like werekill right now.
The question could be considered scum trying to look productive but looks more like a newbie struggling to put pressure on someone they think is getting a little too close for comfort and I'm okay with you telling Kuz to back off.

 

[th3kuzinator]

Yeah I did. Is that a problem?

Yeah it is because I don't understand your thought process. You say you don't like him and bring up a certain post and then say you do like him because of his confidence. Why is confidence a town tell?

The one that refers me to 223? Your 223 gave me your opinion of that post but I didn't get anything about your thoughts on Werekill from it. The vote seemed very defensive of SW in fact, just like a lot of your recent posts.

Did you even read my 266? No, you didn't. Stop being dumb.

Like I said, your newbie helping is throwing me off.
It's getting in the way of your content and MY reads. Right now I have you as town but it's honestly hard to say.

How is it getting in the way of my content in the slightest. That's completely wrong. I also could care less about your read on me.

Also I don't like the whole "You did well with what you had" thing.
If you don't have enough to make a good case then why would you bother making a case at all? You can't turn lead into gold.

What is this even referring to?

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

@Moth. At the moment, yes, I do think he is scum, so, yeah. With no defense for himself, I'd be willing to lynch him. But, I personally believe I had a good case against Garg.

And, in regards to Kuzi, when I went back and re-read the thread, all I mostly read from Kuzi were questions and agreements. There were a few questions here and there but... maybe it is just my suspicion of him getting the better of me. To me, it took him til werekill to really make generous posts. I don't think Kuzi is scum. Rather, I want him to give me reasons for anyone he thinks is scum or mafia, without having to ask people for their reads and then responding. If you look back, I tried to put pressure on him earlier on in the game (which was mostly me asking why I shouldn't think he was scum) and he just blew it off, which I don't at all blame him for. I just want his full opinion now that he has had some time to actually read people.

 

[th3kuzinator]

(this is a continuation of my earlier post. I'll reply to all others in a minute.)

Regardless, I feel like I'm letting Kuzi sink his claws into me. I’ve been a little suspicious of him since the beginning, enough to keep me from believing he’s town. But he seems like he’s genuinely trying to scumhunt. On the other hand, he seems like he’s been getting other people’s reads on things and rarely been giving his own. And, despite his suspicion of me earlier, he wants me to buddy with him on the werekill vote. I’m all for voting werekill atm, but it’s like he knows I slightly trust him (with about as much trust as can be given in a mafia). I don’t know why, being as I haven’t even said I completely think he’s town yet.

So, I guess, Kuzi, give me your read on anyone you think might be scum in this game and why. Or even anyone in this game you think is town. I just want your own complete opinions and suspicions.

I pretty clearly state in my 219 my reasoning for why I think you're town. I'm being so cordial with you because I'm pretty sure I can trust you.

I also have no idea what you mean that I haven't been generous with my reads because I've given them out plenty. I also don't see how I'm buddying you to join the Werekill wagon. I asked you previously who you thought was the most suspicious and you independently said Werekill and stated pretty good reasoning that I agree with. If you're interpreting my post that said you should join the Werekill wagon as an attempt to buddy you, then your suspicions is misplaced.

As for my reads, I'm pretty sure who you know who I think is scum and my reasoning for it. I've also already explained my town reads and my reasoning for having them.

 

[th3kuzinator]

Here's my current list, anyway, if you need to see it compiled in writing.

Town: SW, Garg
Leaning Town: Moth, Phoenix
Null: Zen, BPC, Panta
Scum: Werekill

 

[th3kuzinator]

Wrong browser.