New to SSB (title change)

[NixxxoN]

nah craiigg was a horrible mod

I dont think he was horrible, more like inactive

 

[StealthyGunnar]

Usmash sets up for continuos Uairs.
Here are some pretty good comboes:

Usmash>Usmash>Uair>Uair>Uar>Up+B

Usmash>Uair>Dair

Fthrow>Fair>Fthrow>Uair>Uair>Up+B/Dair

Fthrow>Fair>Fthrow>Uair>Up+B/Dair

Fthrow>Fair>Uair

Nair(fast-falled, Z-canceled)>Fthrow>Fair>Uair>Up+B


There are soooo many possibilities. It's almost endless. Also, don't spam Uair just because it's a good combo starter. You will get dogged for it.

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

We should have a community vote on this forum for our new smash 64 mod.

Also, surri does a good job..lol

 

[saviorslegacy]

K, I got my friends interested.
We played SSB64 for about 5 hours+ this weekend. lol
I now think Fox is broken unless he is over the ledge.
Someone needs to hang a sign around his neck that says: "If you can read this you aren't gonna make it back to the stage."

 

[Skrlx]

We should have a community vote on this forum for our new smash 64 mod.

Also, surri does a good job..lol

SAVING YOUR NECK HERE but only Queen Killjoy decides that.

 

[smakis]

K, I got my friends interested.
We played SSB64 for about 5 hours+ this weekend. lol
I now think Fox is broken unless he is over the ledge.
Someone needs to hang a sign around his neck that says: "If you can read this you aren't gonna make it back to the stage."

if you think fox is a broken edgeguarder you should try pikachu, carrying your victim from the middle of the stage all the way to the blastzone then recover back to the stage

 

[saviorslegacy]

if you think fox is a broken edgeguarder you should try pikachu, carrying your victim from the middle of the stage all the way to the blastzone then recover back to the stage

I don't know anyone who mains Pikachu.
I do believe you since he same like a wall of pain character that can ledge guard with that dumb Thunder. -_-

 

[infernovia]

Thunder has very little to do with it.

To see some of pika shenanigans:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouUooMEHqig

 

[Fireblaster]

I don't know anyone who mains Pikachu.
I do believe you since he same like a wall of pain character that can ledge guard with that dumb Thunder. -_-

Weee your opinion is no longer valid. Get better before making wild claims.

 

[smakis]

no one use thunder as an edgeguard, in fact it kinda helps them since they gain a lot of height and not so much horizontal distance. pikachu just fsmash/bair/nair/uair/dair to gimp anyone trying to recover

 

[Daedatheus]

no one use thunder as an edgeguard

That's not entirely true, it's just that thunder is extremely situational and should rarely be used.

 

[NixxxoN]

lol fireblaster is the ultimate ignorant basher.

 

[Blue Yoshi]

There are usually better options to Thunder. The few times thunder can actually be useful is if your opponent recovers very high (usually against Kirby and Puff). The advantage of this is that if they are very high, thunder can kill them off the top. The disadvantage of this is that if they predict you will use thunder, they can bait you into using it, avoid it, and fast-fall and punish you. If you're against puff, kiss your stock goodbye... unless puff messes up or the stage helps you.

If you want to show off, then you can try to hit them with a 'sweet-spot' thunder (when it hits pikachu) while they are recovering. This will usually kill them... depending on who they are and what percentage they are at.

Other than that, there is always a better option to edgeguard than thunder.

 

[S.R. XXVII]

Reading this thread makes me wanna play this game lol

 

[smakis]

do it, liek nao

 

[ballin4life]

There are usually better options to Thunder. The few times thunder can actually be useful is if your opponent recovers very high (usually against Kirby and Puff). The advantage of this is that if they are very high, thunder can kill them off the top. The disadvantage of this is that if they predict you will use thunder, they can bait you into using it, avoid it, and fast-fall and punish you. If you're against puff, kiss your stock goodbye... unless puff messes up or the stage helps you.

If you want to show off, then you can try to hit them with a 'sweet-spot' thunder (when it hits pikachu) while they are recovering. This will usually kill them... depending on who they are and what percentage they are at.

Other than that, there is always a better option to edgeguard than thunder.

I kinda like thunder as an edgeguard vs pikachu sometimes because if they go for the ledge they get hit by the strong part and if they go high they get hit by the lightning part.

 

[S.R. XXVII]

I'd play if I had a controller for my PC. Last time I played, all I picked was Falcon/Fox. It was really awkward to get used to the game.

 

[Blue Yoshi]

I kinda like thunder as an edgeguard vs pikachu sometimes because if they go for the ledge they get hit by the strong part and if they go high they get hit by the lightning part.

Whenever I go Puff vs Pika (as puff of course), I recover high so that the only way Pika can hit me is with thunder. Just as I'm about to reach where the thunder will be, I fastfall downwards right beside the hitbox. If Pikachu uses standing thunder (so that thunder hits pika), he will miss, and I will be right there to punish him and take a stock. Though I have been fooled a few times by pikas jumping off the ledge and using thunder, and I lose the stock... even I edgeguard with thunder this way. Against some characters, using the standing thunder to edgeguard works well (like against a low Kirby or Falcon or Fox for example), but against others like puff, there are better options.

 

[Zen Yore]

I'd play if I had a controller for my PC. Last time I played, all I picked was Falcon/Fox. It was really awkward to get used to the game.

ssb64 is the only smash game that has a good and easy-to-set online feature

 

[ballin4life]

Whenever I go Puff vs Pika (as puff of course), I recover high so that the only way Pika can hit me is with thunder. Just as I'm about to reach where the thunder will be, I fastfall downwards right beside the hitbox. If Pikachu uses standing thunder (so that thunder hits pika), he will miss, and I will be right there to punish him and take a stock. Though I have been fooled a few times by pikas jumping off the ledge and using thunder, and I lose the stock... even I edgeguard with thunder this way. Against some characters, using the standing thunder to edgeguard works well (like against a low Kirby or Falcon or Fox for example), but against others like puff, there are better options.

Yeah I'm talking about pikachu dittos

 

[saviorslegacy]

Weee your opinion is no longer valid. Get better before making wild claims.

w/e

Thunder has very little to do with it.

To see some of pika shenanigans:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouUooMEHqig

O-o
Good vid.. didn't think that he would go ape like that over the ledge.

ssb64 is the only smash game that has a good and easy-to-set online feature

This I believe.
I once studied frames of my moves in an online Brawl match.

 

[SSBPete]

well pika is the top tier.
back to falcon. upsmash+upsmash+uair+uair+up-b is one of the most basic falcon combos.
also when ur edgeguarding and the opponent is coming back, use b-down (falcon kick) when ur on the ground and u will go straight. so try to intercept their recovery. then u can jump, b-up and u'll make it back to the stage. also when ur next to the edge fthrow to spike works on some percentages.

 

[smakis]

wouldnt suggest doing that often, if you miss you are a sitting duck, and if the other one is a decent edgeguarder you just lost a stock

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I want to learn this game again, but I need a controller first.

How is Ness in Smash64?

 

[Deleted member]

He's about the same tier as he is in the other games

but low tier in this game doesn't equal unusable, all characters can ****

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I like the sounds of that.

I get the feeling if I try to pick up Pikachu again I'm going to only play him to cop out for Ness's bad match-ups.

 

[Darth Rancorous]

He's about the same tier as he is in the other games

but low tier in this game doesn't equal unusable, all characters can ****

isn't ness one of the better characters in this game??? hes not as good in the other games imo

 

[Fireblaster]

isn't ness one of the better characters in this game??? hes not as good in the other games imo

Ness is garbage

 

[Darth Rancorous]

Ness is garbage

yeah, his recovery sucks, but his djc'ing is pretty awesome as well as that yoyo of his and his throws

 

[Fireblaster]

yeah, his recovery sucks, but his djc'ing is pretty awesome as well as that yoyo of his and his throws

He is slow, he has little range, can't approach worth a ****, has trouble killing, very few if none death combos. Ness is trash.

 

[DMoogle]

He is slow

Only really slow moves that come to mind are his smashes (which are all pretty bad), and his side and down tilts, which are more or less useless. His up tilt has a long cooldown time if you miss or match with a move, so you have to watch out for that. Timing u-air can be tricky too. His running speed isn't great but the floaty properties of his DJC make up for it, IMO.

he has little range, can't approach worth a ****

DJCed b-air has FANTASTIC range and good priority, and u-air has priority over everything above him AFAIK.

has trouble killing

He's kind of a do-or-die guy. As far as edgeguarding goes, he's top tier. Unfortunately, for recovery he's bottom. For

very few if none death combos.

I agree he's one of the hardest to make really good combos with, which may somewhat explain the lack of really good Ness players (FWIW I can't remember the last time I played an amazing Ness player, and I don't consider myself one). I sent a PM to Isai about some really good Ness videos he removed a few months ago, so hopefully he'll re-up them or something and you can see.

Ness is trash.

I disagree, but TBH I have no idea where he should be on the tier list, although I definitely don't think he should be at the top or bottom two.

 

[WOTG]

My Ness sucks but I find (good) Ness players a pain to deal with.

 

[Fireblaster]

DJCed b-air has FANTASTIC range and good priority, and u-air has priority over everything above him AFAIK.

How the hell does this count as high range or good approach? With Uair you're basically stuck on the ground, predictable as ever. DJC Bair is a predictable gimmick.

He's kind of a do-or-die guy. As far as edgeguarding goes, he's top tier. Unfortunately, for recovery he's bottom. For

lol @ ness being top tier in edgeguarding. The only way that Ness can possibly edgeguard well is when every other character could have gotten the job done, and that's when the opponent has no option but to sweetspot the ledge.

I agree he's one of the hardest to make really good combos with, which may somewhat explain the lack of really good Ness players (FWIW I can't remember the last time I played an amazing Ness player, and I don't consider myself one). I sent a PM to Isai about some really good Ness videos he removed a few months ago, so hopefully he'll re-up them or something and you can see.

How does this change the fact that he sucks at killing with combos? Once he applies damage to his opponent the only reasonable way for him to get a kill is with a Grounded Dair > Uair or hoping for a lucky grab.

 

[NixxxoN]

Ness being garbage is harsh... hes overrated at the old tier list, but imo he is no lower than mid tier. If you DJC well enough, a defensive ness is tough to beat. He is certainly not any bad at edgeguarding. The yoyo works fine if you time it well, and has a good spike.
FACT that he sucks at death combos, but he is good at comboing from 0% to like 60-70% or so. I think you should not try to combo to death with ness, but throw the opponent out once being at relatively high % and edgeguard him.

 

[dch111]

When I first saw those DJCfair DJCfair DJCfair DJCdair death combos (and other nair/fair combos) I thought they were the greatest thing ever...fast, efficient combos hopefully seen in epic ness comebacks with stocks lost in seconds. I was disappointed he was so much less versatile in practice.

 

[SuPeRbOoM]

if ness' onstage game is average and his recovery is garbage then he just sucks. If a character in this game has a bad recovery, it's hard to win with that character, unless it's falcon/fox/kirby for which their onstage game makes up for their recoveries mostly.

 

[NixxxoN]

if ness' onstage game is average and his recovery is garbage then he just sucks. If a character in this game has a bad recovery, it's hard to win with that character, unless it's falcon/fox/kirby for which their onstage game makes up for their recoveries mostly.

I think if you are patient enough with Ness and play defensive utilt/DJC, you can do well vs some chars. But not chars like Pika or mario, really horrible matchups for him.
Ness recovery was nerfed in USA version dont know why, it should have stayed like in the japanese version where it had invincibility much longer.

Also Kirby, bad recovery?

 

[SuPeRbOoM]

any floaty will wreck ness usually

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

I think if you are patient enough with Ness and play defensive utilt/DJC, you can do well vs some chars. But not chars like Pika or mario, really horrible matchups for him.
Ness recovery was nerfed in USA version dont know why, it should have stayed like in the japanese version where it had invincibility much longer.

Also Kirby, bad recovery?

1. Well, we are talking about the US version of smash. Ness is overall better in the japanese smash anyway due to the easier up tilt combos and less DI. Ness's up air I believe also kills at lower percentages in japanese smash anyway.

2. Regardless of if Ness play's defensive, Ness still has problem matchups. You can say the same thing about a defensive Samus or Yoshi. Ness doesn't have the range to deal with many characters.

3. Kirby, not having a bad recovery: Kirby has a long recovery, but is incredibly predictable and the up b has low priority and is easily edgeguarded. There are barely any characters who have good recoveries, with the few exceptions being Pikachu, Jigglypuff from above, Mario/Luigi, and very slightly Yoshi/Samus

Ill go through each of the characters

Captain Falcon: Down air and back air.
Donkey Kong: Down air, up b, back air, and f-air
Fox: Lasers, when kirby comes near, down tilt, back air, f-air, down smash. or grab the ledge and then up smash. When kirby is away, Lasers
Jigglypuff: Down smash, f-air, back air, n-air
Kirby: Down air, Back air, Down air
Link Bombs and boomerang from away, f-smash, down air, down smash, virtually every move.
Luigi: Double Down air, back air
Mario: Double Down air, back air
Ness: Down air, down smash, even a back air.
Pikachu: is there any move pikachu can't edgeguard with
Samus: Bombs, back air, down air, charge shot. N-air
Yoshi: F-air, down smash, eggs from afar

 

[smakis]

ness do have problems with finishing his combos, but i hate to say that he is garbage (even though its pretty much the truth) since i kinda mained him when i started playing. ness dair is pretty awesome though if you can cath your opponent in a small area (like a plattform or the left side of hyrule) and do djc techchases (pretty situational though)