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[Illuminose]

afaik c stick buffered sh aerials are completely useless for sheik. it's actually suboptimal to buffer sh fair. there's no point in c sticking nair. sh uair is usually performed to pull them down, which you don't want to buffer as it doesn't work if you do that. buffered bair is kinda useful as it's the only way to autocancel it in a short hop, but you don't need the c stick for that because there is literally no point in spacing bair on shield and that would be the utility of the c stick in that instance. normal c stick aerials are easy and you can do any necessary buffers with y + a so I don't really see how it's important to buffer c stick aerials as sheik.

 

[ShinRamen]

That's what I'm saying; Moose said he didn't use A for aerials at all, so I wondered how he does buffered fair. It's possible with C stick if you use tap jump or have a quick thumb, and I asked if that was the case.

 

[WondrousMoose]

How do you do buffered aerials? Are you one of those guys who can move their thumb from X to the c stick at light speed?

I set Z to jump, then Y to grab. That way, I can freely use C-stick or B just after jumping, and I can easily dash-cancel grab by rolling my thumb over A>Y.

 

[GHOST4700]

how does Sheik deal with campy ******* like toon link and Link?

 

[HFlash]

I set Z to jump, then Y to grab. That way, I can freely use C-stick or B just after jumping, and I can easily dash-cancel grab by rolling my thumb over A>Y.

Funny, I thought I was the only weirdo that does this. Reminds me of bumper jumper controls from Halo (except I use X for grab instead).

@ GHOST4700 Shiek actually is one of the best characters for handling campy characters. Her BF is perfect for jumping over projectiles and hitting your opponent before they end their release animation. This works VS TL's rang, and arrow really well. Otherwise, approach and perfect shield, approach and perfect shield...... etc.

ALSO, a question of my own: how useful is foxtrotting for Shiek? What are it's uses for shiek and how does the timing for it work? Almost got the tech down with Falcon, but can't seem to pull it off at all with Shiek.

 

[GHOST4700]

Thanks man :D

 

[ArikadoSD]

ALSO, a question of my own: how useful is foxtrotting for Shiek? What are it's uses for shiek and how does the timing for it work? Almost got the tech down with Falcon, but can't seem to pull it off at all with Shiek.

Been trying to find an answer for that lately and so far I don't think it's entirely useful, but idk. her fox trot seems to be... not good? and I'm not able to cancel it very easily but idk. no certain answer yet.

 

[n3ko]

Quick question. I've look into Zero's Sheik and False's Sheik, they both know how to F-air combo pretty easily, well ZeRo makes it look easy, but here's the thing, I cant get more than a second F-air when trying to do this combo. But i know that you can at least get up to 4 hits if done correctly, right?

 

[ArikadoSD]

Quick question. I've look into Zero's Sheik and False's Sheik, they both know how to F-air combo pretty easily, well ZeRo makes it look easy, but here's the thing, I cant get more than a second F-air when trying to do this combo. But i know that you can at least get up to 4 hits if done correctly, right?

right.

is that just the question? lol

The number of fairs you can get in a string would be decided by the stage's length, opponent's percent, and weight/falling speed.

 

[n3ko]

The number of fairs you can get in a string would be decided by the stage's length, opponent's percent, and weight/falling speed.

Thanks, but, I've certainly aint doing this right, should you fast fall when doin the fairs, or does that depend on how they DI?

 

[ArikadoSD]

Thanks, but, I've certainly aint doing this right, should you fast fall when doin the fairs, or does that depend on how they DI?

The inputs for me are short hop fair then fast fall, rinse and repeat. I don't think it's possible to fast fall while doing fair unless you delay fair to when after you jump and then fast fall while doing it which is way too late and gives opponents time to jump away/airdodge/hit with an aerial.

DI shouldn't matter much

 

[n3ko]

The inputs for me are short hop fair then fast fall, rinse and repeat. I don't think it's possible to fast fall while doing fair unless you delay fair to when after you jump and then fast fall while doing it which is way too late and gives opponents time to jump away/airdodge/hit with an aerial.

Use C-Stick as "Attack", so when I fair, I fast fall at the same time. Maybe thats what I'm doing wrong.

 

[ArikadoSD]

Use C-Stick as "Attack", so when I fair, I fast fall at the same time. Maybe thats what I'm doing wrong.

It's really hard to use c stick for fair chains imo. I just use A + control stick and only use c stick for spacing fair on shield.

 

[n3ko]

Wow, I was doing everything wrong. Thanks Arikado, been practicing and yes, I'm starting to get the hang of it.

 

[ShinRamen]

There are basically two different fairs with sheik; rising fair and falling fair.

Rising fair is what you use for fair chaining, and you want the forward air to come out asap, usually done by sliding the thumb from X/Y to A whilst holding forward, then pressing down when you've reached the apex of the short hop to fast fall.

Falling fair is used for controlling space, starting combos etc, and is what makes Sheik's neutral game so strong. The forward air is delayed, but done early enough that it still autocancels. It's usually done by short hopping with X/Y, flicking forward on the C stick at the right time, then fast falling. To control your direction in the air whilst doing this (ie. to do a retreating falling fair), you must set your C stick to attack.

 

[Danimal197]

There are basically two different fairs with sheik; rising fair and falling fair.

Rising fair is what you use for fair chaining, and you want the forward air to come out asap, usually done by sliding the thumb from X/Y to A whilst holding forward, then pressing down when you've reached the apex of the short hop to fast fall.

Falling fair is used for controlling space, starting combos etc, and is what makes Sheik's neutral game so strong. The forward air is delayed, but done early enough that it still autocancels. It's usually done by short hopping with X/Y, flicking forward on the C stick at the right time, then fast falling. To control your direction in the air whilst doing this (ie. to do a retreating falling fair), you must set your C stick to attack.

You don't have to set your c-stick to attack to accomplish this, you just need good control over your control stick. However, it is definitely easiest to do with the c-stick.

 

[ShinRamen]

For sure, just stating the most common method used to do it. Must be mad awkward to do retreating fast fall fairs with just the control stick tho

 

[Illuminose]

You don't have to do retreating fair, you just have to space the hitbox on their shield. If you can't space it properly in a scenario, that's when you do retreating fair.

 

[JAZZ_]

Hello Sheik mains,
Jazz here looking to you for help in my learning to use Sheik. I'm a Samus main, a Low-tier warrior as my friend would say.I've spent the last few months colaborating, researching, and training my Samus skills because I gotta think and play in such an unorthodox way with Samus. (In all my years playing smash I never thought I'd use less than 2 smash attacks per match, and use tilts and zair till the cows came home) I've managed to stay competitive with Samus with all this research and practice but I'm still working on it.
However when I want to pick up a new character all I do is play against my friends with them, nothing competitive yet because I haven't put the time into learning the core fundamentals of the character.

So my question is, what should I Start working on to progress my knowledge of Sheik for someone with a Samus wired brain?

Thanks guys for any help you can provide.
Sincerely,
Jazz

 

[HFlash]

Hello Sheik mains,
Jazz here looking to you for help in my learning to use Sheik. I'm a Samus main, a Low-tier warrior as my friend would say.I've spent the last few months colaborating, researching, and training my Samus skills because I gotta think and play in such an unorthodox way with Samus. (In all my years playing smash I never thought I'd use less than 2 smash attacks per match, and use tilts and zair till the cows came home) I've managed to stay competitive with Samus with all this research and practice but I'm still working on it.
However when I want to pick up a new character all I do is play against my friends with them, nothing competitive yet because I haven't put the time into learning the core fundamentals of the character.

So my question is, what should I Start working on to progress my knowledge of Sheik for someone with a Samus wired brain?

Thanks guys for any help you can provide.
Sincerely,
Jazz

...... I would probably by reading what is on the first post of this thread.

 

[WondrousMoose]

Hello Sheik mains,
Jazz here looking to you for help in my learning to use Sheik. I'm a Samus main, a Low-tier warrior as my friend would say.I've spent the last few months colaborating, researching, and training my Samus skills because I gotta think and play in such an unorthodox way with Samus. (In all my years playing smash I never thought I'd use less than 2 smash attacks per match, and use tilts and zair till the cows came home) I've managed to stay competitive with Samus with all this research and practice but I'm still working on it.
However when I want to pick up a new character all I do is play against my friends with them, nothing competitive yet because I haven't put the time into learning the core fundamentals of the character.

So my question is, what should I Start working on to progress my knowledge of Sheik for someone with a Samus wired brain?

Thanks guys for any help you can provide.
Sincerely,
Jazz

You're on to something with only using two or so smashes per match. Sheik's kit is largely about safety, and her smashes leave her wide open.

The biggest difference between Samus and Sheik will be their speed. Get used to the feel of using Sheik: her running/aerial speed, fall/FF speed, and most importantly, her attack speed. Her frame data is incredible, so get a feel for when you can use what.

Lastly, get to know her combos. Sheik is all about combos. Know them. There are threads on here to help you out there as well.

 

[JAZZ_]

You're on to something with only using two or so smashes per match. Sheik's kit is largely about safety, and her smashes leave her wide open.

The biggest difference between Samus and Sheik will be their speed. Get used to the feel of using Sheik: her running/aerial speed, fall/FF speed, and most importantly, her attack speed. Her frame data is incredible, so get a feel for when you can use what.

Lastly, get to know her combos. Sheik is all about combos. Know them. There are threads on here to help you out there as well.

Thank you, you seem to have known what I meant by my initial post.

 

[WondrousMoose]

Thank you, you seem to have known what I meant by my initial post.

No problem! I love that you're proudly maining a low tier. We get a lot of tier "junkies" around here.

 

[WondrousMoose]

I'm sure I should know this, but what moves of Sheik's meteor/spike?

 

[ArikadoSD]

I'm sure I should know this, but what moves of Sheik's meteor/spike?

Only the back hitbox of dair and the first 3 hits of uair I believe

 

[**Gilgamesh**]

So apparently It seems like Sheik Bouncing Fish was buffed, with rage around 100% for Sheik a bouncing fish against Mario at 125% sends him flying

 

[SeanS]

Picking up this character. Did quite well with her having played her seriously for only a few days, but I am completely ******** when it comes to throwing 100%+ opponents.

- When, where, and why do dthrow > uair / fthrow > bouncing fish work at all? For the former, how do you consistently true combo before kill percents, and after those percents, can you really have a 50/50 air dodge trap?
- What are the uses of uthrow and bthrow? I feel as though I should be able to get something out of them in theory, but I am not quite sure what.
- I have, against a small number of opponents, been able to manage dthrow > fair for a kill at this percent. Is this just bad DI?
- At extreme percents (180%+), what is the most optimal move from grab?

 

[WondrousMoose]

Picking up this character. Did quite well with her having played her seriously for only a few days, but I am completely ******** when it comes to throwing 100%+ opponents.

- When, where, and why do dthrow > uair / fthrow > bouncing fish work at all? For the former, how do you consistently true combo before kill percents, and after those percents, can you really have a 50/50 air dodge trap?
- What are the uses of uthrow and bthrow? I feel as though I should be able to get something out of them in theory, but I am not quite sure what.
- I have, against a small number of opponents, been able to manage dthrow > fair for a kill at this percent. Is this just bad DI?
- At extreme percents (180%+), what is the most optimal move from grab?

- Dthrow > Uair is a popular kill move and true combos for a very, very long time; if you can jump high enough to reach them with Uair, you're good. As for the 50/50, you can use Vanish to punish their air dodge, as it has better knockback than Uair. Fthrow > Bouncing Fish is a little trickier, as you will have to SH a few frames before initiating BF. Exact percentages vary by character, but it tends to work low- to mid-percent.
- Uthrow is useless. Bthrow can combo to a B-reversed Bouncing Fish at lower percents, but that's very situational.
- Don't depend on Dthrow to Fair. You can land it without bad DI, but if you're already Dthrowing them or just dying to use Fair, you have better options.
- At crazy high percents - don't bother grabbing - because it wouldn't be Fair.
...
No, seriously, Fair kills ~160%, especially near the edge, and is an incredibly safe move.

The beauty of maining Sheik is her amazing options in just about any situation, and as you use her more, you'll get a better feel for these.

 

[ArikadoSD]

The "50/50" from dthrow is never a 50/50.. the best option all the time is to jump and the opponent won't die. The only punish people get not airdodging is taking a uair hit which won't kill them, dthrow uair doesn't kill unless you're very light and DIing horribly (towards sheik)

 

[ShinRamen]

If you take an upair from airdodging, it's a 50/50, though I do agree that the setup is quite overrated. People very often airdodge when the percent is high enough that a jump would get you out of the situation, and as you say, up air is pretty damn weak now. There definitely is always a narrow % range where you're trapped and vanish/up air would both kill though.

 

[ILOVESMASH]

Does the reduced hitstun of fair remove any combos (besides fair to bouncing fish at lower percents)?

 

[ArikadoSD]

Does the reduced hitstun of fair remove any combos (besides fair to bouncing fish at lower percents)?

It removes nothing, not even fair to bouncing fish

 

[ILOVESMASH]

It removes nothing, not even fair to bouncing fish

Really? Some characters like Yoshi have been able to use Nair to escape bouncing fish after I fair them.

 

[Illuminose]

Really? Some characters like Yoshi have been able to use Nair to escape bouncing fish after I fair them.

You're actually just being slow on the input if that happens. Or hit them with an falling fair too high such that you can't land a true combo.

 

[kanbaru]

Can anyone give me a rundown of what stages I wanna be on what stages and I don't and why? I understand that battlefield and smashville are my friends but I'd really love to understand what stages to avoid and why

 

[ArikadoSD]

Can anyone give me a rundown of what stages I wanna be on what stages and I don't and why? I understand that battlefield and smashville are my friends but I'd really love to understand what stages to avoid and why

Delfino, Halberd, and Lylat are the stages I dislike the most for Sheik. Delfino and Halberd have ridiculously low ceiling that can kill Sheik really early and doesn't help her as much as it helps her opponents, so they're always my 2 bans if they're legal (they're not usually legal in my scene so yay!). I personally don't like Lylat because it's just dumb and the tilting can mess up our needles, so it's annoying.

If Delfino and Halberd aren't legal I'd ban Dream Land and Town & City for their low ceiling, which can end up in Sheik dying early. It's all personal preference past halberd and delfino though, those are unarguably Sheik's worst stages.

 

[WondrousMoose]

Can anyone give me a rundown of what stages I wanna be on what stages and I don't and why? I understand that battlefield and smashville are my friends but I'd really love to understand what stages to avoid and why

Arikado's on the right track. Stages like Battlefield and Final Destination have very high ceilings, and Sheik flies high. Poor lightweight.
It also depends on your favored play style, as well as the matchup. Do platforms aid or interfere with your combo game? Is your opponent going to avoid needles on them? Do they want to keep you directly in front of them or a little above them?

 

[Illuminose]

Delfino, really? Delfino has a bunch of transformations with walkoffs/close blastzones, low blastzones on transformations for cheesy dthrow up air stuff...I don't see how this stage is bad for Sheik. I don't like Delfino as a stage (competitively) but objectively it's a good Sheik stage.

 

[ArikadoSD]

Castle Siege is better if you want walkoff shenanigans. In Delfino we can kill early with dthrow uair sure, but they can also kill early with their dthrow uair. Sheik doesn't have the best throw combos into uair.

 

[GHOST4700]

Does anyone know what Sheik's neutral game is?
And when do Sheik's ever use burst grenade?