OK whatever.
Not really. While recovering, jump, throw a projectile, and up b. While in the neutral, throw bombs and boomerangs and run away a lot/wait for an opening. While comboing, lots of bairs, up airs, up tilts, and up b finishers. While edgeguarding, up b, down smash, dair, forward smash, and projectiles. It was not my intention to be condescending sorry.
Yeah, but they are never used in combos. You stop using them by the time you approach. Other versions of Link like Project M Link do projectile auto combos all the time, but 64 Link not so much.
In Hyrule, you are right. In DL, like half the time.
Not really, if he double jumps ( he has a fairly big double jump ) and down bs to grab the ledge he doesn't have to up b. And if you double jumped, but barely missed the ledge then wait until you are far away to be at a safe distance. Plus he can cancel his double jump into a attack at any given time. Ness wins recovery easily.
Ness mainly edgeguards with 3 things: dair, up b, and down smash. Down smash has a super fast low hitbox with a lot of range that sends them horizontally and it can be unexpected since you will have your back to your opponent. Up b can get aimed anywhere and can really mess up slower recoveries. Dair is insta death off stage and can he used safely without using your double jump. And he can send them offstage with forward throw or back throw easily. That's pretty good edgeguarding if you ask me. I'm just going to say tie here.
What does being easy have to do with anything? Juggling effectively is harder to do on a stage as big as Dreamland, and juggles take longer to work anyways. Better to send them offstage.
I was trying to show how powerful Luigi's up b is. Luigi's up b was nerfed in Melee, and in Melee it destroys. Just doing up air chains and finishing with up b ends stocks fast which is why it's better.
If you've watched a fair amount of Isai's Link, I'm assuming you have since you mentioned it, then you would have seen him using boomerang to extend combos. You do know that boomerang can combo into boomerang even on DL, right?
One Link trick that I love is bomb throw lighty -> nair the opponent into bomb -> fair
If Link didn't have boomerang, I'd give Ness the spot above him. The fact that boomerang can start combos, extend combos, and interrupt being combo'd makes it so good.
Ness has a big double jump, I know (I wasn't clear beforehand). I was talking about Ness' ability to snuff a recovery before it gets close. Ness has a difficult time edgeguarding due to losing momentum if he interrupts his double jump. It's largely the reason he's so bad offstage. He can't get back on by jumping and immediately throwing out a move to ensure a safe landing. His double jump is great for his combos but for recovery, it just doesn't cut it.
Like Twilight said, Ness' down b is quite unsafe if used incorrectly and it's also easy to read even if it is used properly. I didn't mention it before but Ness has a terrible ledgehop game as opposed to Link's sub-par ledgehop game. They both suck but Ness' is worse.
Ness has a fantastic dair. Link has a fantastic dair. They both use them for edgeguarding. Ness' is reliable. Link's is safer.
Tie for edgeguarding with dair.
Ness' up b isn't a very good edgeguard. It's fine for interrupting
some recoveries but overall it's not great. It's really easy to nullify with most nairs and it leaves Ness quite vulnerable even if he lands it. Use it sparingly. It's best use (to me) is when it's used and then followed by a ledge grab to cancel it.
Link's up b is good when used after a ledgehop. It's got good range with the sweet spot and it's got pretty safe. It has a lot of end lag but it can be avoided with an edge cancel which isn't too hard to perform. Hard but not impossible by any means.
Ness' down smash is nice but even characters like Falcon can find ways around it with relative ease due to the obvious setup for down smash. It's not quite as good as Pika's forward smash but it's decent enough.
Ness wins the grab game. Link only gets grabs with good shield pressure, great baits, amazing reads, and the occasional boomerang to grab or bomb to grab. Ness can do all of those (and more) but the latter he can't.
The platforms on DL aren't too difficult for Link to juggle on. DI is mostly what kills it. Ness has an easier time following DI.
It all comes down to offstage in my eyes. Link
barely beats Ness on the offstage game therefore Link is above Ness. Link just has slightly better, more reliable forms of edgeguarding. Link's projectiles trump Ness' for edgeguarding. Link wins ledgehop. Ness wins deep recovery upon miraculous edgeguard. Link usually doesn't need that because of bombs. Ness has a spike. Ness has throws that make some recoveries quite difficult that ends up giving Ness an easier time. Link doesn't suffer from DJC syndrome offstage. Link has better edgeguard mix-ups. More options makes it really difficult for the opponent to recover.
Most Luigi mains still regard down b as the better option (in singles). Up b out of shield is decent though when used in tandem with pseudo parries (getting pushed off of a platform while your shield is raised and responding with an attack).
lolz