Alex Strife
Smash Hero
well walkoff is a big issue but since the stage is not a typical stage can it be safe to say that it is a bit better than stages like shadow moses?
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New stage discussion
- Thread starter Alex Strife
- Start date
_Yes!_
Smash Hero
Yeah Alex, I'd say that Distant Planet would be more viable than Shadow Moses.
Dabuz
Fraud at Smash
japes is bad because a lot of characters (including viable ones) get too much disadvantages or advantages on it, the problem isn't the clap trap though, just the general layout creates too much of unbalance even for a CP
port town aero is a fine stage i don't think is that bad, each and every hazard is predictable and can be seen like a minute away, the no ledges are counteracted by a good portion of the stage time not having an actually pit but just damaging ground
pictochat is very hard to say, it only has 3 really dangerous changes, tall ground spikes, rockets, and piranha that kills too early, i'd say it needs more testing TBH
distant planet, no, a ramped walk off is bad, and you can camp really good at the ramp bottom under the leaf you can't fall through
also, a fun stages to see would be spear pillar and big blue (BTW, big blue definitely has qualities making it a good CP TBH)
port town aero is a fine stage i don't think is that bad, each and every hazard is predictable and can be seen like a minute away, the no ledges are counteracted by a good portion of the stage time not having an actually pit but just damaging ground
pictochat is very hard to say, it only has 3 really dangerous changes, tall ground spikes, rockets, and piranha that kills too early, i'd say it needs more testing TBH
distant planet, no, a ramped walk off is bad, and you can camp really good at the ramp bottom under the leaf you can't fall through
also, a fun stages to see would be spear pillar and big blue (BTW, big blue definitely has qualities making it a good CP TBH)
Inui
Banned via Warnings
port town aero is a fine stage i don't think is that bad, each and every hazard is predictable and can be seen like a minute away, the no ledges are counteracted by a good portion of the stage time not having an actually pit but just damaging ground
pictochat is very hard to say, it only has 3 really dangerous changes, tall ground spikes, rockets, and piranha that kills too early, i'd say it needs more testing TBH
distant planet, no, a ramped walk off is bad, and you can camp really good at the ramp bottom under the leaf you can't fall through
also, a fun stages to see would be spear pillar and big blue (BTW, big blue definitely has qualities making it a good CP TBH)
Alex Strife
Smash Hero
isnt that the point of a counterpick? lol. Japes is gonna be on IMO.
'
random = no...so GONE
hmm well lets test the stage
no no no no no no no no no noalso, a fun stages to see would be spear pillar and big blue (BTW, big blue definitely has qualities making it a good CP TBH)
did i mention no?
wasnt there an issue with people getting killed early?
What's The Point
Smash Master
What exactly is too random about Pictochat? As far as I know, it's the only stage with a random hazard that follows a pattern. Frigate flips whenever it wants, Halberd uses it's weapons in no order, but Pictochat hazards last 10-14 seconds, then you have 8-12 seconds till the next one, and they don't repeat until a cycle of all of them happens.
Alex Strife
Smash Hero
we had a discussion about it and the issue is that the transformations happen at random. There is no set order to it. People do not want to camp the safe area an entire game. It is just dumb.
Kaiber Kop
Smash Master
Frigate has a blaring siren and flashing lights before it does anything. The random flipping has a warning which allows enough time to react and stay safe. Halberd's claw floats around signaling the attack AND it pauses right before the strike. The Canonball takes a significant amount of time to affect gameplay and the same with the laser.
Pictochat spawns game changing factors IMMEDIATELY. "Grabbed by DDD, oh well I'll take about 30. Nope theres a wall now???????????" Dead
QFT
Delta-cod
Smash Hero
If camping the safe area on Pictochat the whole game is a no go, then Green Greens is a no go too. You can camp on the little side of the blocks with most characters, the entire game. You have to approach from above, so you're disadvantaged. Going above might cause you to get hit by a bomb. If you air dodge through that area you can get punished. If camping an area for the whole game is dumb, then Green Greens is dumb too. >_>
And really, I doubt the hazards on Pictochat are that game breaking. Most of the time the hazards aren't there, so the better player should win anyways. The terrain just has more variations like the PS's have, and a few actually deadly hazards. The hazards might not even show up, so it's not like you can depend on them to win for you. Also, the hazards are timed to spawn. I forget exactly, I think it's every 12 seconds.
Damage Dealing hazards:
Fire
Spike Walls
Missiles
Piranha Plant
Spike Pillars.
Mine Cart
Fire doesn't kill, spike walls don't really kill until high percents AND it's techable, IIRC. I don't really think the Plant kills, though it's been a while. Missiles don't really kill, but I feel it's the damage they give that puts most people off. Mine Cart isn't really a huge threat, I don't think it kills until pretty high. Most of these hazards don't really kill you until Halberd's Hazards would.
The Spike Pillars are really the main problem I see with the hazards, though it makes the ground so worthless to fight on that it usually ends up with two people being in different little walled off areas waiting for it to end. Whenever I paly on this stage and I see this hazard appearing, I immediately distance myself from opponents so that I can't be knocked into them. They also can't hit you if you're on the ground when they spawn.
Edit: I understand that the problem is that the hazards spawn without much of a warning. I also know this discussion has been done here before, I just wanted to put in my 2 cents. =]
I support Distant Planet for Yoshi's gay. IIRC Yoshi can CG Wolf up the slope there. =P
And really, I doubt the hazards on Pictochat are that game breaking. Most of the time the hazards aren't there, so the better player should win anyways. The terrain just has more variations like the PS's have, and a few actually deadly hazards. The hazards might not even show up, so it's not like you can depend on them to win for you. Also, the hazards are timed to spawn. I forget exactly, I think it's every 12 seconds.
Damage Dealing hazards:
Fire
Spike Walls
Missiles
Piranha Plant
Spike Pillars.
Mine Cart
Fire doesn't kill, spike walls don't really kill until high percents AND it's techable, IIRC. I don't really think the Plant kills, though it's been a while. Missiles don't really kill, but I feel it's the damage they give that puts most people off. Mine Cart isn't really a huge threat, I don't think it kills until pretty high. Most of these hazards don't really kill you until Halberd's Hazards would.
The Spike Pillars are really the main problem I see with the hazards, though it makes the ground so worthless to fight on that it usually ends up with two people being in different little walled off areas waiting for it to end. Whenever I paly on this stage and I see this hazard appearing, I immediately distance myself from opponents so that I can't be knocked into them. They also can't hit you if you're on the ground when they spawn.
Edit: I understand that the problem is that the hazards spawn without much of a warning. I also know this discussion has been done here before, I just wanted to put in my 2 cents. =]
I support Distant Planet for Yoshi's gay. IIRC Yoshi can CG Wolf up the slope there. =P
Crizthakidd
Smash Champion
alex, picto can work because hey listen. ITS A COUNTERPICK. if someone didint ban it then u get some hope for loosing the first match. if ppl are worried and have to ban picto all the time well guess what that mid/high tier just got a winning chnace vs snake/mk
other then that, japes is alright and ps2 , no other stage has buisiness being tournament
other then that, japes is alright and ps2 , no other stage has buisiness being tournament
Kaiber Kop
Smash Master
Skill should be the deciding factor, not luck.
Alex Strife
Smash Hero
I would suggest looking at an older thread concerning the discussion of picto
Distant Planet is 50/50 with me and I am willing to put it in but here is what we will do
after VC7 I will add the following stages
Jungle Japes
Pokemon Staidum 2
This will be with 2 bans ( one ban being neutral and the other Counter-Pick)
after this we will test out one stage per tournametn
I wanna try the following
Distant Planet
Green Greens
Aero Port Town - we can discuss it here for now
The goal of this is to have a good ruleset that will incorporate stages that are good and fair but at the same time can help matchups for players.
All of these stages ( minus port cause we have not fully talked about it) do not have a luck factor.
Remember just because you personally do not like a stage does not mean its a bad stage. I think that was the initial reason why these were banned.
Picto has a luck factor and as such should not be in tournament. We want overall the idea of SKILL to be the deciding factor not luck.
Distant Planet is 50/50 with me and I am willing to put it in but here is what we will do
after VC7 I will add the following stages
Jungle Japes
Pokemon Staidum 2
This will be with 2 bans ( one ban being neutral and the other Counter-Pick)
after this we will test out one stage per tournametn
I wanna try the following
Distant Planet
Green Greens
Aero Port Town - we can discuss it here for now
The goal of this is to have a good ruleset that will incorporate stages that are good and fair but at the same time can help matchups for players.
All of these stages ( minus port cause we have not fully talked about it) do not have a luck factor.
Remember just because you personally do not like a stage does not mean its a bad stage. I think that was the initial reason why these were banned.
Picto has a luck factor and as such should not be in tournament. We want overall the idea of SKILL to be the deciding factor not luck.
Delta-cod
Smash Hero
Blargh, Picto. </3
Port Town is a pretty bad stage in my opinion. It doesn't have ledges, which really messes with some recoveries. Also, most of the stage layout is pretty bad. I haven't played it recently, so I don't remember exactly how it was, but most of the time there's very little area that's safe to be in due to the threat of cars, which I'm not sure have a pattern they come in or not. I recall at one time I thought they came every third stop, but the stops seem random so this kind of throws me off. If anyone knows the pattern to this stage, please tell me.
Port Town is a pretty bad stage in my opinion. It doesn't have ledges, which really messes with some recoveries. Also, most of the stage layout is pretty bad. I haven't played it recently, so I don't remember exactly how it was, but most of the time there's very little area that's safe to be in due to the threat of cars, which I'm not sure have a pattern they come in or not. I recall at one time I thought they came every third stop, but the stops seem random so this kind of throws me off. If anyone knows the pattern to this stage, please tell me.
Dabuz
Fraud at Smash
Ive played on port quite a bit recently, the no ledges isn't much worse than ledge less right side on frigate, also, the fact that you can easily time to hit the road of the moving stage makes missing the ledge not bad except when you are going up in one part of the racetrack which has a pit for a good 10-20 seconds
the cars can be seen in the racetrack on the background like 20 seconds before they come, then you can see them approaching so not only you predict cars you can see when and where they will hit every time, along with there always being safe spots
the wall always comes up on the left of the stage at the same time each and every circle round the map
the cars and stage stopping are random, but neither of them can't be seen before they happen (even though stage stopping is relatively fast)
honeslty thats it, its just a stage that needs to be learned which very people have learned it
BIG BLUE FOR CP PLOX :3, ITS JUST SUCH A FUN STAGE :D
the cars can be seen in the racetrack on the background like 20 seconds before they come, then you can see them approaching so not only you predict cars you can see when and where they will hit every time, along with there always being safe spots
the wall always comes up on the left of the stage at the same time each and every circle round the map
the cars and stage stopping are random, but neither of them can't be seen before they happen (even though stage stopping is relatively fast)
honeslty thats it, its just a stage that needs to be learned which very people have learned it
BIG BLUE FOR CP PLOX :3, ITS JUST SUCH A FUN STAGE :D
Delta-cod
Smash Hero
Just a question, aren't there some stops where you can't see the cars coming or have a very small window of seeing them coming and getting out of the way?
For example, this stop.
For example, this stop.
Dabuz
Fraud at Smash
yes, BUT, the first wave of cars won't actually hit you in that spot, at least, they shouldn't, meaning you gotta react fast or stay up top there
Kaiber Kop
Smash Master
Port town is terrible as it is due to the cars. The only reason I even mentioned it earlier was bc of the hacked version(no cars, and added ledges on the main platform). As far as it's current state goes, it's bad
Delta-cod
Smash Hero
So you have to play it safe in the safe zone or have quick enough reactions to avoid the hazard.
Sounds kind of like Pictochat to me.
Really, if we're so against Pictochat I feel we should also be against Port Town. Port Town's hazards are much more dangerous than Picto's, and just as random. At least the drawings for it are on a timer, and a cycle of sorts. They also give a similar warning time as the cars do on some parts of the stage.
So yeah, Port Town is bad if Picto is bad for similar reasons.
Sounds kind of like Pictochat to me.
Really, if we're so against Pictochat I feel we should also be against Port Town. Port Town's hazards are much more dangerous than Picto's, and just as random. At least the drawings for it are on a timer, and a cycle of sorts. They also give a similar warning time as the cars do on some parts of the stage.
So yeah, Port Town is bad if Picto is bad for similar reasons.
Kaiber Kop
Smash Master
Yup, they both suckSo you have to play it safe in the safe zone or have quick enough reactions to avoid the hazard.
Sounds kind of like Pictochat to me.
Really, if we're so against Pictochat I feel we should also be against Port Town. Port Town's hazards are much more dangerous than Picto's, and just as random. At least the drawings for it are on a timer, and a cycle of sorts. They also give a similar warning time as the cars do on some parts of the stage.
So yeah, Port Town is bad if Picto is bad for similar reasons.
Dabuz
Fraud at Smash
the difference is though port town is similar to halberd where you can see the random hazards coming way before hand (that one part being a very special case that is still reasonable)
its not pictochat where they can spawn directly on you with no warning
its not pictochat where they can spawn directly on you with no warning
doesn't Pictochat "erase" its previous setup before moving to the next?
i wish warioware was on without all the extra power up bull****. what an awesome stage.
speaking of Mute City (is that what its called), why exactly is that stage off? it was on in Melee? the one hit kills from cars = klaptraps from Jungle Japes? what makes that stage so bad?
i wish warioware was on without all the extra power up bull****. what an awesome stage.
speaking of Mute City (is that what its called), why exactly is that stage off? it was on in Melee? the one hit kills from cars = klaptraps from Jungle Japes? what makes that stage so bad?
_Yes!_
Smash Hero
Pictochat's setups are drawn slowly, so unless you're getting chaingrabbed then it's not that bad.
Delta-cod
Smash Hero
Yes, is it wrong that I first translated your location as "Eating Frozen Yoshi"?
And Picto's drawings are drawn pretty slowly, so I don't think it's too bad. They're certainly less deadly than Port Town, imo.
And Picto's drawings are drawn pretty slowly, so I don't think it's too bad. They're certainly less deadly than Port Town, imo.
_Yes!_
Smash Hero
Frozen Yogurt 
Pictochat should be a CP imo.
Pictochat should be a CP imo.
vanek_pi
Smash Journeyman
The hazard in port town is very expected, its not like pictochat where its completely random. you already KNOW cars will be zooming by. you have ample time to avoid it soon as the platforms appear.
_Yes!_
Smash Hero
The drawings are so slow on pictochat that you shouldn't be hit by them. Even if you are, they do minimal damage. I believe port town cars do like 20 per hit and kill insanely early. No stage hazard should kill you from below 60 lmao...not even snake can normally do that
Delta-cod
Smash Hero
I don't know about you, but I live in constant fear of Port Town cars. Every time the platform stops, I'm looking for the highground, since I'm afraid to get hit by a stupid car that kills me at 60%. At least on Pictochat I don't have that fear. Even if I do get hit by the hazards, I won't be dying until like, over 100, probably 120-ish, and that's really only by the pillar spikes.
Snake can Fsmash. =PThe drawings are so slow on pictochat that you shouldn't be hit by them. Even if you are, they do minimal damage. I believe port town cars do like 20 per hit and kill insanely early. No stage hazard should kill you from below 60 lmao...not even snake can normally do that
Palpi
Smash Hero
If you get fsmashed by snake it is totally your fault =]
Leafplayer452
Smash Journeyman
Shadow Moses
Pros - Nothing affects the gameplay on that stage
Cons - Walls
I think this should be a CP cuz its pretty much made for up killers like D3 and Snake and its a pretty logical reason for a CP
Pros - Nothing affects the gameplay on that stage
Cons - Walls
I think this should be a CP cuz its pretty much made for up killers like D3 and Snake and its a pretty logical reason for a CP
Delta-cod
Smash Hero
Shadow Moses is made for ANYONE to CP DDD to. It's dumb. Everyone would pretty much end up banning it, so there's no point in using it.
Kaiber Kop
Smash Master
Yeah....because Snake and D3 are such bad characters that they need help from stages. I suppose Castle Seige and Halberd(both not very beneficial to many not-amazing characters) aren't enough huh? They need more to win despite even doing well on neutrals??? You've got to be kidding. Adding new stages show create more of a balance.....not completely shut out more characters.
Inferno3044
Smash Master
I like this idea of having more stages. Makes the game more fun and I might use this in my tournaments as tests. I think Japes should be fine since it can help someone against MK. It's a gay Falco stage but you can ban it. The electric part of PS2 is annoying but shouldn't be that big a problem. I like Green Greens so I'm gonna say yes to that. Pictochat I have no opinion on.
Distant Planet I don't really know but I personally dislike that stage. Port town is an interesting one though. I honestly haven't played on it much so I have no opinion. Shadow Moses I don't like for the D3 reason. Also helps Diddy btw. If it were to be legal there would have to be a rule banning D3 wall infinite and any sort of lock (jab lock, laser lock, banana lock etc.) for that stage.
I'm just blurting out stages now but what about Corneria and Onett?
Distant Planet I don't really know but I personally dislike that stage. Port town is an interesting one though. I honestly haven't played on it much so I have no opinion. Shadow Moses I don't like for the D3 reason. Also helps Diddy btw. If it were to be legal there would have to be a rule banning D3 wall infinite and any sort of lock (jab lock, laser lock, banana lock etc.) for that stage.
I'm just blurting out stages now but what about Corneria and Onett?
Alex Strife
Smash Hero
I played on Port town...uh...NO i was at 30% and died from a car...no thanks